CFS Pathology Tied To Increased Blood Levels Of Endotoxin

[Bozidar]

Sorry, I don't mean to be dismissive. However, i do mean to ensure that the term 'CFS' is being properly applied. It is a horrible disease and people have the tendency to self-diagnose any kind of chronic fatigue as CFS without truly understanding what CFS even is. This is very harmful to those who actually are suffering from the disease. CFS patients barely have the energy to bring awareness to their disease as it is, let alone fight against such misconceptions.

Are you familiar with post-exertional malaise (PEM)? If you don't have it, you don't have CFS. If you do, you have my condolences, and I hope you understand why I'm being so anal about this. Post-exertional malaise - MEpedia

Though the notion of every illnesa starting in the gut sounds good, it's far from being true. If you feel that it doesn't apply to your case, the reason is not that you're an exception, but rather that the premise is questionable. Nevertheless, getting your liver and intestines working is no doubt a big piece of the puzzle, and for what it's worth, I've come across a case of someone curing themselves of CFS with a simple treatment of coffee enemas, milk thistle and ALA.

I read a little bit the link you provided. I don't know...I don't want to spend time on this now.

My question was about LPS and how is it possible that there is a reference range on the lower end instead of "the lower, the better"?
If somebody has experience with this?
What would mean my LPS is below reference range? Is that even good since there is a lower value on the range?

Also, I was perplexed by one other thing.
Why is that I feel so good and heavenly when I eat those protein bars which have a ton of sugar alcohols? They ferment in the gut and they are supposed to be bad for the gut. 4-6 hours after eating them my gut starts to produce gas, but I also feel so heavenly.
I stopped eating them cause in theory they are destroying my gut and feeding bad bacteria, but they make me feel very good.
Anybody has explanation about this?

Thanks

 

[TheSir]

I read a little bit the link you provided. I don't know...I don't want to spend time on this now.

My question was about LPS and how is it possible that there is a reference range on the lower end instead of "the lower, the better"?
If somebody has experience with this?
What would mean my LPS is below reference range? Is that even good since there is a lower value on the range?

Also, I was perplexed by one other thing.
Why is that I feel so good and heavenly when I eat those protein bars which have a ton of sugar alcohols? They ferment in the gut and they are supposed to be bad for the gut. 4-6 hours after eating them my gut starts to produce gas, but I also feel so heavenly.
I stopped eating them cause in theory they are destroying my gut and feeding bad bacteria, but they make me feel very good.
Anybody has explanation about this?

Thanks

Do the protein bars contain aspartame (E951)? The phenylalanine in it makes some people feel pretty good.

 

[Bozidar]

Do the protein bars contain aspartame (E951)? The phenylalanine in it makes some people feel pretty good.

I dont know, I dont have any now here with me, I cannot check.
There is a difference between when I take phenylalanine, either in a pill or also when I drink zero sugar coca cola which has aspartame, and when I eat protein bars. They give me distinct "felling good states". Phenylalanine makes me feel good just in general and careless, but protein bars make me feel creative and compassionate.

Protein bars had the most impact when I was in ketosis/carnivore. I did not feed my gut with anything by default and then when I ate those protein bars my gut would ferment like crazy and I would feel crazy good.

 

[Jonk]

Hi, this is a very old post, but I must ask something because its constantly coming to my head.
I have a CFS and on the beginning of this year I have done some blood tests.
My endotoxin marker(LPS) in the blood is below reference range.
My first thought is how can there even be a range limiter on the lower side? Wouldn't zero on the lower end be the best?

I have some gut irritation which came on while I was doing keto, I developed those under eye bags which are a clear sign on gut irritation.
I don't know how is it even possible to get gut irritation during keto when its touted as a gut healing diet.
I read somewhere that if you don't give the bugs down there fiber to eat, then they eat your gut lining. That seems plausible, but can this really happen like this?

I have heard this phrase that every illness starts in the gut many times by now, but I just don't know what to make of my very low LPS and my CFS, depression, mental health issues...

Can somebody comment on this?
Thank you

I've never heard anyone recommend taking a LPS marker test so I dont know how reliable it is, how fast the body disposes of endotoxin etc. I think high fat diets increase intestinal serotonin even if its saturated, also a recent post from Haidut showing fat increases estrogen production in the stomach. Whether its CFS or something else maybe doesn't even matter. Have you tried anything for your gut like insoluble fiber, cyproheptadine, niacinamide etc? And if you have, have you noticed any improvement?

 

[Bozidar]

I've never heard anyone recommend taking a LPS marker test so I dont know how reliable it is, how fast the body disposes of endotoxin etc. I think high fat diets increase intestinal serotonin even if its saturated, also a recent post from Haidut showing fat increases estrogen production in the stomach. Whether its CFS or something else maybe doesn't even matter. Have you tried anything for your gut like insoluble fiber, cyproheptadine, niacinamide etc? And if you have, have you noticed any improvement?

Hi
Thanks for the reply.

I heard of LPS first from Paul Saladino. I dont know much about it, but it in my mind it is supposed to be endotoxin which ends up in your blood through the gut.

I tried making a brew of chicory root, that is insoluble fiber. It made my gut explode a bit and turn watery.
I dont have big problems with my gut, but there is some kind of iritation down there which started, as I mentioned, when I was in ketosis. It is completely counter intuitive, keto is supposed to heal your gut. I heard on dave asprey podcast that bacteria if you dont feed them eat your gut lining...I have no idea is this true.

 

[DaveFoster]

I've never heard anyone recommend taking a LPS marker test so I dont know how reliable it is, how fast the body disposes of endotoxin etc. I think high fat diets increase intestinal serotonin even if its saturated, also a recent post from Haidut showing fat increases estrogen production in the stomach. Whether its CFS or something else maybe doesn't even matter. Have you tried anything for your gut like insoluble fiber, cyproheptadine, niacinamide etc? And if you have, have you noticed any improvement?

Because it's redundant, an "LPS IgG" test. High-fat diets do increase intestinal serotonin, but saturated fat can do the opposite, acutely, as it increases the integrity of tight-junctions in the intestine, bolstering resilience to the on continual onslaught of endotoxin.

There are several blood tests that can be performed that can provide a more comprehensive picture, but similarly, why not do an "LPS IgG" test. Well, maybe it'll show that you have a high level of endotoxin, and you'll do what? Take antibiotics? Just take the antibiotics and see if your symptoms improve, and then eat carrots, activated charcoal, potentially more antibiotics, etc. It's ridiculous and niche to isolate certain biomarkers, test for them, implement changes, and then re-test for them, unless you're documenting the changes for research or personal learning purposes. We know that if you have a high level of endotoxin, and you consume anything antibiotic, then it will diminish the endotoxin burden of your body. So has anyone learned anything from you testing all of this? No. If you're going to religiously test, then make it into a documented religion and share it with others: make yourself into a case-study.

 

[Jonk]

Hi
Thanks for the reply.

I heard of LPS first from Paul Saladino. I dont know much about it, but it in my mind it is supposed to be endotoxin which ends up in your blood through the gut.

I tried making a brew of chicory root, that is insoluble fiber. It made my gut explode a bit and turn watery.
I dont have big problems with my gut, but there is some kind of iritation down there which started, as I mentioned, when I was in ketosis. It is completely counter intuitive, keto is supposed to heal your gut. I heard on dave asprey podcast that bacteria if you dont feed them eat your gut lining...I have no idea is this true.

I think chicory root is mostly inulin, a soluble fermentable fiber. I really like wheat bran. Then you have bamboo shoots and carrots.

There have been some debate on the forum about how to handle the microbiome but I think the general view here is to apply moderate strategies to keep it in check, starting with the least extreme options like fiber, working your way up to low dose antibiotics like penicillin vk if needed. Bacteria replicate extremely fast and if your diet contains some cooked vegetables and fruit the idea is that should be enough.

 

[Jonk]

I dont have big problems with my gut, but there is some kind of iritation down there which started, as I mentioned, when I was in ketosis. It is completely counter intuitive, keto is supposed to heal your gut.

Also important to realize is how tied your gut is to everything else. I think gut troubles might not even be noticed as such but expressed in seemingly unrelated issues. Just worth keeping in mind.