Capitalism. Good or Bad?

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

I disagree, we don't have capitalism today. The main source of our problems which worsened since 2008 has been the excessive money printing by the federal reserve for about 15 years. In a capitalist society however central banks don't even exist, at least if you understand capitalism to be a system in which the government doesn't interfere in the economy, and its only role is to prevent physical aggression of people and their property and to enforce contracts. The FDA is a major cause of our problems too, and in a capitalist society the FDA wouldn't exist either.

 

[Dean]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

j.,

Getting rid of the Fed Reserve and FDA does nothing. The same people run the government regulators that run the private companies. The exact same people. So what changes when you take the government office away? It's just one less ball for them to juggle. That's it.

Even however, if still you somehow believe there is an actual seperation between public and private, what about the scarcity of resources? Do you really think that everyone in China, India, Brazil, etc., etc., etc., is going to be able to have a house with a two-car garage...and cars to fill it? Or will they just give it up for our sake? Even if we could kill all of them, capitalism only is sustainable as long as there is someone to cannibalize. So guess who is next?

We can't all become derivatives traders and live happily ever after. The fact that people can't or won't be disabused of that preposterous notion is what gives me confidence in predicting our utter self-destruction. No reason not to have some fun in the meantime though.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

We can't all become derivatives traders and live happily ever after.

and that wouldn't be necessary if the federal reserve or some equivalent didn't exist. People can't just save money because it loses value every year. That's exactly because the federal reserve increases the money supply. Before the Fed, the value of the dollar increased every year, meaning the longer you waited to spend the money you saved, the more things you actually bought when you decided to spend the money. Now people are forced to do all sorts of risky things because the central bank has made saving impossible.

 

[kiran]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

Intense relationships between men and women should be further explored - new selves will be evolved, and new methods for exploring will be discovered. But before this is possible for everyone, the whole system of capitalist imperialism has to be changed, so that being human is not defined primarily as having an economic role.

Nutrition for women, page 105, fifth edition.

I think people who see this quote will likely dismiss him as a proto-typical socialist. People have always been only able to see the world in black and white and we are regressing in that respect.

I think socialism vs capitalism is like rather like the vegan vs paleo/low-carb battle. Both have different aspects right.

I rather like to think that capitalism corresponds to paleo, since most people here come from western countries, and are veterans of paleo...
I doubt that's an exact analogy though.

 

[Dean]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

We can't all become derivatives traders and live happily ever after.

and that wouldn't be necessary if the federal reserve or some equivalent didn't exist. People can't just save money because it loses value every year. That's exactly because the federal reserve increases the money supply. Before the Fed, the value of the dollar increased every year, meaning the longer you waited to spend the money you saved, the more things you actually bought when you decided to spend the money. Now people are forced to do all sorts of risky things because the central bank has made saving impossible.

Well, again, take a look at the names and histories of the people running the brokerage firms, banks, and big industry and then take alook at the names and histories of the people on the Fed Reserve boards, regulatory agencies, and Treasury Department. They are the same people. So, what you are saying is that when someone leaves the private sector to work for the government at a high level, they just put on a different hat and work in a diametric opposition to everything they worked for previously?

Even if you can really swallow that, your explanation for why Americans are getting left behind economically doesn't hold water. People don't have any money to save because wages have been stagnant (at best) in terms of purchasing power for 3 or 4 decades. When they sold us NAFTA and globalization, they left out the fact that in this new service economy , most of the service jobs would still be deemed unworthy of wages even at a level of subsistence. The U.S. has the most costly and inefficent health care system in the developed world. Higher education costs are skyrocketing. Small to mid-size entrepreneurship has plummeted. This is why most people don't have any money to save.

Why has it come to a head now? Government regulations, contrary to the narrative the corporate media have told, have been systematically gutted for the last 30 years. So, again the whole notion that the public sector is hamstringing the private sector is patently absurd .

So what has changed? Resources, human and otherwise, have become more scarce and less exploitable around the world. So not only do the people at the top of the capitalist food chain no longer want to share a diminishing largesse, they have turned to shaking down as many of the most vulnerable (the middle class) back to wage slave status. That's just the reality of where we are at.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

Higher education costs are skyrocketing.

And the more government intervened, the more the costs increased. Before the government started making student loans, tuition was lower and the quality has higher. So we have a lack of capitalism in education (or, equivalently, government interference) to blame for the higher costs and lower quality.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

Well, again, take a look at the names and histories of the people running the brokerage firms, banks, and big industry and then take alook at the names and histories of the people on the Fed Reserve boards, regulatory agencies, and Treasury Department. They are the same people. So, what you are saying is that when someone leaves the private sector to work for the government at a high level, they just put on a different hat and work in a diametric opposition to everything they worked for previously?

People could save money because its value increased over time before the Fed was created. It's not that those people change, it's that they didn't have as many institutions to steal and cheat.

 

[kiran]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

Why has it come to a head now? Government regulations, contrary to the narrative the corporate media have told, have been systematically gutted for the last 30 years. So, again the whole notion that the public sector is hamstringing the private sector is patently absurd.

This is utterly bull****. The amount of energy spent on government regulation is ever increasing. Most of that regulation actually favors Big Business, while making things harder for smaller businesses. Larger organizations with in-house legal and accounting departments can handle regulation far easier than say a small business with only a few employees.

Some regulations even have a direct health consequence. Americans are becoming obese because of corn subsidies and sugar tariffs leading to HFCS being used widely in place of sugar in soda, bread, etc. Iron is added to all flour by government mandate. It is mandatory to add Vitamin A+D to all milk, along with other food junk. Incandescent bulbs have been banned, which no doubt will lead to further health issues down the road.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

Government regulation skyrocketed after 9/11. If you for example give a company money to invest, they have to spy on you and make sure your behavior doesn't fit different profiles, which costs millions of dollar. That came with the patriot act. The goal probably was to favor big firms which have the economies of scale to absorb the costs, while letting smaller firms go bankrupt.

 

[Dean]

Why has it come to a head now? Government regulations, contrary to the narrative the corporate media have told, have been systematically gutted for the last 30 years. So, again the whole notion that the public sector is hamstringing the private sector is patently absurd.

This is utterly bull****. The amount of energy spent on government regulation is ever increasing. Most of that regulation actually favors Big Business, while making things harder for smaller businesses. Larger organizations with in-house legal and accounting departments can handle regulation far easier than say a small business with only a few employees.

Some regulations even have a direct health consequence. Americans are becoming obese because of corn subsidies and sugar tariffs leading to HFCS being used widely in place of sugar in soda, bread, etc. Iron is added to all flour by government mandate. It is mandatory to add Vitamin A+D to all milk, along with other food junk. Incandescent bulbs have been banned, which no doubt will lead to further health issues down the road.

I was speaking in terms of financial regulations only, but your assessment is correct. Regulations in general do not impact the top players and keep small to mid size entrepreneurship down. I agree with that. But it's a moot point really.

 

[Dean]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

Higher education costs are skyrocketing.

And the more government intervened, the more the costs increased. Before the government started making student loans, tuition was lower and the quality has higher. So we have a lack of capitalism in education (or, equivalently, government interference) to blame for the higher costs and lower quality.

A lack of capitalism in education? Who is it then that is profitting off the predatory loans kids have to take out to go to college, or the vulnerable positon they are in in terms of leverage when they come out of school so under water, not to mention all the cheap laor they can avail themselves of from around the world.

I don't think capitalism could be getting anymore out of the education system than it is right now.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

I don't think capitalism could be getting anymore out of the education system than it is right now.

We don't have capitalism in education. In a capitalist system, the department of education wouldn't exist, and more importantly, government student loans wouldn't exist either, which would allow prices to go down year after year.

Before the government got involved in the student loan business, it was possible to finance a college education by waiting tables in the summer. Government involvement, i.e., lack of capitalism, changed all that.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

A lack of capitalism in education? Who is it then that is profitting off the predatory loans kids have to take out to go to college

Sallie Mae which would've gone bankrupt if the government didn't bail them out, i.e., it would've gone bankrupt in a capitalist system. Sallie Mae was created by the government by the way.

They provide GOVERNMENT GUARANTEED student loans. It's a private entity in name only.

 

[Dean]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

Well j., I don't really know what to say. I just don't see how your Randian dream can possibly be reconciled into a coherent society, much less one that would be remotely pleasant to live in. But if it helps you sleep at night, it doesn't matter much at this point anyway.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

Well j., I don't really know what to say.

I know, you have no argument. Basic supply and demand explains that government involvement is the cause of the high tuition costs. The main institution who is profiting from the loans, Sallie Mae, was created and bailed out by the government, so blaming capitalism is transparently ridiculous.

 

[Dean]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

of course, there is an argument. They're just pointless with the laissez-faire crowd. You're lost in the "dream"...Same American Fraud...different iteration. Rest assured, you will die with more things than I will die with. So, I concede.

I am surprised to find this mindset in this forum though. If Dr. Peat had been born in a laissez-faire America, he never would have lived long enough to move to Mexico.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

It's not a dream, when the educational system was more "Randian", before the department of education was created, the costs were lower and the quality of education was higher.

Dr. Peat was born in a much more laissez-faire America than we have today. Had it been more capitalist, his family would've likely been richer. America created the largest middle class in the world because for a long time it was the most capitalist country.

Today of course America is surpassed in wealth per capita by Singapore and Hong Kong, some of the most capitalist countries today who are creating wealth and increasing their standard of living across the board.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

I am surprised to find this mindset in this forum though.

Wherever there are smart people I tend to find libertarians.

 

[j.]

Re: Ray Peat Political Views

Charlie, maybe the part of this thread not about Ray Peat should be somewhere else, such as whether capitalism is good or bad.

 

[dietf***ed]

Capitalism exists in may countries in different form and may not be the problem at a higher level - its the way it is implemented that can create issues. For example, we have institutionalized corruption in some of our primary pillars of society.

Steven Brill has written an excellant expose on the problems ingrained in our broken healthcare system - this is a must read for everyone ! While politicians were fighting over healthcare reform and who should pay for it - no one was asking the fundamental question - why on earth is it so expensive? This is what Steven Brill digs into.