Jobs will not fix poverty, improve standard of living much, or overall quell financial problems

ScurveDream

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It's said by many political figureheads, workaday people, your neighbors possibly and family, etc. that more access to jobs will help lift people out of poverty. The funny thing is, though, that plenty of substantial data can likely be found that shows fluctuations in job demand, supply, etc. over time. The data gathered is then used presumably to judge the so-called authoritarians, world leaders, political folks, and so on about how good they are at "fixing" the so-called crisis of poverty, suffering, and/or any other political hot topics/climate. Interestingly enough, no matter how many people get jobs, overall rates of homelessness, poverty, struggle with finances, etc. never change much for the better. The number of people working goes up, but the number of people sufficiently okay with their incomes -- if anything -- seems to keep going down.

Looking at this from the scope of health you could argue that financial problems do not have to correlate with work effort since happiness isn't objectively tied to income anyways -- it's not just that simple; however, for the purposes of politics people are considered happy when statistics show numbers that are supposed to resonate this despite individual circumstances or objections to "data points." Since health and our being ties in to our approaches and views it's likely understandable that impoverished conditions create negative feedback, thus those who struggle too much end up just struggling forever, whereas those who "turns things around" found a right way forward for themselves that was either feasible, opportunistically reachable, or whatever other philosophy you prefer. As we should mostly know here a number or some graph/figure does not represent my condition, circumstances, or individual voice, state of being perfectly, etc. -- it represents what the trend of data gathered/garnered for the purposes of vocalizing and its end game are presented forth for. If people argue that giving money to people with low incomes will not fix lifelong poverty, then what suggests having a temporary job will? It's funny though because some would say, "Get a damn job!" to one who has money issues and isn't steadily working, but wouldn't this generally obvious idea not be present to people? It's maybe not that they can't or don't want a job, but because -- often times -- simply "getting a job" does not improve much the reason why or factors involved in what drove or continuously limits one in sociological advancement, financial advancements/success, and/or any other opportunities that may raise people above certain standards of living or etc. Isn't there data that shows people who had parents/guardians with low education often just have low education themselves? Especially worse is that struggled/stressed parents who pushed themselves through education, excessive work, etc. in an "anti-will" sort of way can just bear kids who then either do not or can not replicate this themselves, possibly creating further struggling kids later on by taxing/stressing one's own person in order to achieve the supposed "grit" needed to pass on your toughness (which ironically turns out to be offspring who struggle more and may not achieve much at all in such seemingly rigged, consequential steps, rules, etc. for advancement up the ladder of society).

People vehemently stand against basic income due to it not solving the inherent desire of exiting poverty/struggle, but I've never heard of anyone personally who was miserable and poor who just grabbed one of those job thingies and is now blessed in life; did a 180 of sorts. Maybe it happens, but far less than can be boasted about in the media, social media, etc. Look at the stereotyped examples of struggle -- the "ghetto" or such. It's said that there are only few ways to truly escape these types of lifestyles -- often it's presumed that you must climb to the top from the bottom, never describing success in so-called, step-by-step steps. Do people go from step one to step ten, or do they -- in cases of these "success stories" -- go from step 1 or 2 or 3 to maybe 6 or 7 or 8? Where are those middle steps? Kind of like income I'd say there's not much middle ground which is why you don't see much income mobility these days -- it's almost like an all-or-nothing thing where you're either comfortable/rich-ish or you're struggling/workaday and can't afford much room for anything else. I guess the middle exists for everything, but it's seemingly becoming more and more infeasible to step up one leap rather than being pulled up close to the top or at the top. Income mobility, I'd say, is hardly a thing since jobs do not continue to propel you through life (and nowadays -- for some at least -- a job at all will not even get a roof over your head sometimes).

Quite a few people remain in poverty, and this is said it's due to less education, less motivation, less clarity, less mental health. Where are the people explaining the causes of these things though? You do not hear about the why behind the conditions so much as the condition -- it's a deflection tactic. Why are people poor and miserable? Oh, it's because they're lazy -- they just need a job! So if they just need money to not be miserable, why not just give money to everyone? Oh, right -- they need a purpose; to feel good, validated, confident. So wait! A job doesn't necessarily give one any of those things -- so a job doesn't necessarily fix poverty or quell sadness. Who would have thought? Is it any wonder again why you always see some people poor and miserable? Perhaps they just have nothing realistic to see that can help them (probably because it either doesn't exist or no one can show it for them). I'd say you can look at it all in the scope of health, but even beyond health there's unfairness and hard to control for factors. You can say that good health lets you cope with your situation, but if it is indeed a "situation" then how good can health be? How far can health even take you if you're put in the tough spot lifelong? Perhaps that is why health is low -- you do not have all necessary factors for you to thrive more, regardless of whether that takes a certain income or not. Bad situation = bad health, so bad situation = reason for poverty. It doesn't even matter what creates a bad situation, but what can be done to minimize them and let people live in a society they feel a part of, connection with, or support from. We are so detached and disentangled -- even our financial health/habits just likely mimic our health or at least our physiological state overall and environmental (mal)adaptations. You live to thrive, or thrive to live? Turns out if it's bad from the start things often only get worse, or have a much harder restriction/ceiling imposed on advancement. Some have noticed early childhood/development years can be critical in determining the ability of one to move through life, develop, and what characteristic foundation they are embodied with. Should some minor detail go wrong and it can be down the rabbit whole of confusion and chaos from some people and their lives/place of being relative to those who had more "armor" in the battle against the inconveniences in life. You can even find multiple people in similar predicaments, but some suffer far more than others due to their additional inconveniences which can be possibly beyond one snapshot evaluation of health in some form.

But ultimately if a job is said to fix problems in life of those with out them, and are apparently a step within reach of any to solve their problems, then I'd imagine no one would have any problems in this ideal world. Unfortunately not everyone feels welcome, capable, or suited for every supposed opportunity that is said to be near them -- and a lot of times people do what they can, so what one does can be arguably their best. Would you do your worst on purpose? Do you think that what you do could be better or more? Then I guess the answer lies in what limits us in our own powers while also focusing on what the "powers that be" try to restrain us from doing too. I've told myself that getting just any job is not worth it because it not only doesn't make a big enough difference to justify the stresses in maintaining it, but I don't feel suitable just inserting myself (or trying to) anywhere just for the sake of my own advantage. I decide that I go where I want but also where I can see I'm wanted. If one does not feel either prepared or valued in a certain people then one may not bother inserting themselves there. Some people just let ego take over and maybe believe they deserve things even at the cost of others, or the inconsideration of how others view them -- but not everyone is this type of person who makes these types of decisions, and it's my view that all are not bloodthirsty egoists who just play the game even if they cheat and know others know it too. Thus it can go the saying that those with a little evil make it to the top easier because they justify or ignore their procedure to advance, while others want an earnest, respectable and admirable place of wanting or acceptance than some who step anywhere just to get their hands on all they desire at nearly any cost they reduce themselves to, or succumb to as a person. Although it is nice to think people who "win" the game of life are the ones who play it the best, but the matter is how you play it, not necessarily how you win it, I suppose.

But seeing how so many work and still have problems it's glaringly obvious that having a steady job is not likely to help one out in life, as what makes them miserable without it is likely something that won't complete one with it, in my overall view of a person and their being. Such explains endless statistics on job markets, income disparity, biases, etc. but at the end of the day each person (hopefully) knows mostly what is best for them, although I can't confidently say I do 100% regarding myself or if society as a whole can reach that deeply either. I just know that I can see the cards in my deck, and although I'd love to "fix" everything wrong or that I lack/desire and help improve this for others, I unfortunately can't solve the problem of ills, woes, unfairness and unhappiness in any step-by-step ways, for myself or others. I have seen how the good side of health can make you feel, but I wonder even if it's just a coping mechanism -- increasing health to feel in a physiological state where we do not let our inconveniences worry us as much. How much worry does one who takes Xanax, benzos, or other similar compounds have? Maybe people see their problems/limits and take substances that allow them to not worry about them, but the problems remain there -- kind of like the medical industry/pharmaceutical industry/etc. giving antidepressants/SSRIs, benzos, etc. to those with poverty, deep pains/struggles, and unsolvable problems to people as a way to pretend they aren't there without necessarily making them a non-problem for the most part. Like money or anything health-related there is an overlap with almost anything regarding our physiology, society and largely our actions -- so maybe we can solve money problems by solving lots of other related problems that run swiftly through them too like reducing the discrimination gap, opportunity/hopes, and of course internal health/productive/empathetic measures as a people too). All I know is that if everything is connected and you can't fix one thing, maybe it's time to fix something else associated with it -- or maybe just let yourself believe there are no inherent or consequential problems borne of our society/health/state of being and circumstances today.
 

meatbag

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Economical white noise that was used to push Bolshevism. It's hard to take it seriously even if you wanted to use Germany as an example.
Can you cite any examples from the text itself and state your arguments against it?
 

Missenger

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Can you? Don't post sources without arguments if you don't want discussions, even half-assed marxists can do that.
 

meatbag

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Can you? Don't post sources without arguments if you don't want discussions, even half-assed marxists can do that.
You called it white noise, so I'm just wanting some examples of this
 

Hugh Johnson

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Power is in production, not in consumption. This is the reason capital wishes to maintain high unemployment, and why unions, when they were strong, created full employment policy.
 

PxD

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Interestingly enough, no matter how many people get jobs, overall rates of homelessness, poverty, struggle with finances, etc. never change much for the better. The number of people working goes up, but the number of people sufficiently okay with their incomes -- if anything -- seems to keep going down.

Looking at this from the scope of health you could argue that financial problems do not have to correlate with work effort since happiness isn't objectively tied to income anyways -- it's not just that simple; however, for the purposes of politics people are considered happy when statistics show numbers that are supposed to resonate this despite individual circumstances or objections to "data points."
Power is in production, not in consumption. This is the reason capital wishes to maintain high unemployment, and why unions, when they were strong, created full employment policy.

It's not about jobs, it's about national income. Plenty of communist societies had nominal unemployment of 0% - everyone had something to do that they got paid for - but the system was bad at creating wealth and so the net result was 100% employment and everyone is equally poor. 1,000,000 workers making $100 per month isn't a lot of productivity, but it sure is a lot of misery.

It would make more sense to have 10% unemployment and higher incomes among the employed, for a much higher total national income.

If one takes the view that only jobs, jobs, jobs matter then you'll end up with a lot of low-value, make-work jobs and projects.

The ultimate source of all income is energy production, because in order to generate any economic activity one must move something or heat something, both of which require consumption of a store of energy.

As goes energy production, so does a society's happiness and success.

For us right now in the 21st century, that means we live and die by fossil fuels (85% of primary global energy consumption). If you want to know where we are collectively headed in the future, keep an eye on what's going with oil, gas, and coal production, quality, and prices.
 

tankasnowgod

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It's said by many political figureheads, workaday people, your neighbors possibly and family, etc. that more access to jobs will help lift people out of poverty. The funny thing is, though, that plenty of substantial data can likely be found that shows fluctuations in job demand, supply, etc. over time. The data gathered is then used presumably to judge the so-called authoritarians, world leaders, political folks, and so on about how good they are at "fixing" the so-called crisis of poverty, suffering, and/or any other political hot topics/climate. Interestingly enough, no matter how many people get jobs, overall rates of homelessness, poverty, struggle with finances, etc. never change much for the better. The number of people working goes up, but the number of people sufficiently okay with their incomes -- if anything -- seems to keep going down.

Looking at this from the scope of health you could argue that financial problems do not have to correlate with work effort since happiness isn't objectively tied to income anyways -- it's not just that simple; however, for the purposes of politics people are considered happy when statistics show numbers that are supposed to resonate this despite individual circumstances or objections to "data points." Since health and our being ties in to our approaches and views it's likely understandable that impoverished conditions create negative feedback, thus those who struggle too much end up just struggling forever, whereas those who "turns things around" found a right way forward for themselves that was either feasible, opportunistically reachable, or whatever other philosophy you prefer. As we should mostly know here a number or some graph/figure does not represent my condition, circumstances, or individual voice, state of being perfectly, etc. -- it represents what the trend of data gathered/garnered for the purposes of vocalizing and its end game are presented forth for. If people argue that giving money to people with low incomes will not fix lifelong poverty, then what suggests having a temporary job will? It's funny though because some would say, "Get a damn job!" to one who has money issues and isn't steadily working, but wouldn't this generally obvious idea not be present to people? It's maybe not that they can't or don't want a job, but because -- often times -- simply "getting a job" does not improve much the reason why or factors involved in what drove or continuously limits one in sociological advancement, financial advancements/success, and/or any other opportunities that may raise people above certain standards of living or etc. Isn't there data that shows people who had parents/guardians with low education often just have low education themselves? Especially worse is that struggled/stressed parents who pushed themselves through education, excessive work, etc. in an "anti-will" sort of way can just bear kids who then either do not or can not replicate this themselves, possibly creating further struggling kids later on by taxing/stressing one's own person in order to achieve the supposed "grit" needed to pass on your toughness (which ironically turns out to be offspring who struggle more and may not achieve much at all in such seemingly rigged, consequential steps, rules, etc. for advancement up the ladder of society).

People vehemently stand against basic income due to it not solving the inherent desire of exiting poverty/struggle, but I've never heard of anyone personally who was miserable and poor who just grabbed one of those job thingies and is now blessed in life; did a 180 of sorts. Maybe it happens, but far less than can be boasted about in the media, social media, etc. Look at the stereotyped examples of struggle -- the "ghetto" or such. It's said that there are only few ways to truly escape these types of lifestyles -- often it's presumed that you must climb to the top from the bottom, never describing success in so-called, step-by-step steps. Do people go from step one to step ten, or do they -- in cases of these "success stories" -- go from step 1 or 2 or 3 to maybe 6 or 7 or 8? Where are those middle steps? Kind of like income I'd say there's not much middle ground which is why you don't see much income mobility these days -- it's almost like an all-or-nothing thing where you're either comfortable/rich-ish or you're struggling/workaday and can't afford much room for anything else. I guess the middle exists for everything, but it's seemingly becoming more and more infeasible to step up one leap rather than being pulled up close to the top or at the top. Income mobility, I'd say, is hardly a thing since jobs do not continue to propel you through life (and nowadays -- for some at least -- a job at all will not even get a roof over your head sometimes).

Quite a few people remain in poverty, and this is said it's due to less education, less motivation, less clarity, less mental health. Where are the people explaining the causes of these things though? You do not hear about the why behind the conditions so much as the condition -- it's a deflection tactic. Why are people poor and miserable? Oh, it's because they're lazy -- they just need a job! So if they just need money to not be miserable, why not just give money to everyone? Oh, right -- they need a purpose; to feel good, validated, confident. So wait! A job doesn't necessarily give one any of those things -- so a job doesn't necessarily fix poverty or quell sadness. Who would have thought? Is it any wonder again why you always see some people poor and miserable? Perhaps they just have nothing realistic to see that can help them (probably because it either doesn't exist or no one can show it for them). I'd say you can look at it all in the scope of health, but even beyond health there's unfairness and hard to control for factors. You can say that good health lets you cope with your situation, but if it is indeed a "situation" then how good can health be? How far can health even take you if you're put in the tough spot lifelong? Perhaps that is why health is low -- you do not have all necessary factors for you to thrive more, regardless of whether that takes a certain income or not. Bad situation = bad health, so bad situation = reason for poverty. It doesn't even matter what creates a bad situation, but what can be done to minimize them and let people live in a society they feel a part of, connection with, or support from. We are so detached and disentangled -- even our financial health/habits just likely mimic our health or at least our physiological state overall and environmental (mal)adaptations. You live to thrive, or thrive to live? Turns out if it's bad from the start things often only get worse, or have a much harder restriction/ceiling imposed on advancement. Some have noticed early childhood/development years can be critical in determining the ability of one to move through life, develop, and what characteristic foundation they are embodied with. Should some minor detail go wrong and it can be down the rabbit whole of confusion and chaos from some people and their lives/place of being relative to those who had more "armor" in the battle against the inconveniences in life. You can even find multiple people in similar predicaments, but some suffer far more than others due to their additional inconveniences which can be possibly beyond one snapshot evaluation of health in some form.

But ultimately if a job is said to fix problems in life of those with out them, and are apparently a step within reach of any to solve their problems, then I'd imagine no one would have any problems in this ideal world. Unfortunately not everyone feels welcome, capable, or suited for every supposed opportunity that is said to be near them -- and a lot of times people do what they can, so what one does can be arguably their best. Would you do your worst on purpose? Do you think that what you do could be better or more? Then I guess the answer lies in what limits us in our own powers while also focusing on what the "powers that be" try to restrain us from doing too. I've told myself that getting just any job is not worth it because it not only doesn't make a big enough difference to justify the stresses in maintaining it, but I don't feel suitable just inserting myself (or trying to) anywhere just for the sake of my own advantage. I decide that I go where I want but also where I can see I'm wanted. If one does not feel either prepared or valued in a certain people then one may not bother inserting themselves there. Some people just let ego take over and maybe believe they deserve things even at the cost of others, or the inconsideration of how others view them -- but not everyone is this type of person who makes these types of decisions, and it's my view that all are not bloodthirsty egoists who just play the game even if they cheat and know others know it too. Thus it can go the saying that those with a little evil make it to the top easier because they justify or ignore their procedure to advance, while others want an earnest, respectable and admirable place of wanting or acceptance than some who step anywhere just to get their hands on all they desire at nearly any cost they reduce themselves to, or succumb to as a person. Although it is nice to think people who "win" the game of life are the ones who play it the best, but the matter is how you play it, not necessarily how you win it, I suppose.

But seeing how so many work and still have problems it's glaringly obvious that having a steady job is not likely to help one out in life, as what makes them miserable without it is likely something that won't complete one with it, in my overall view of a person and their being. Such explains endless statistics on job markets, income disparity, biases, etc. but at the end of the day each person (hopefully) knows mostly what is best for them, although I can't confidently say I do 100% regarding myself or if society as a whole can reach that deeply either. I just know that I can see the cards in my deck, and although I'd love to "fix" everything wrong or that I lack/desire and help improve this for others, I unfortunately can't solve the problem of ills, woes, unfairness and unhappiness in any step-by-step ways, for myself or others. I have seen how the good side of health can make you feel, but I wonder even if it's just a coping mechanism -- increasing health to feel in a physiological state where we do not let our inconveniences worry us as much. How much worry does one who takes Xanax, benzos, or other similar compounds have? Maybe people see their problems/limits and take substances that allow them to not worry about them, but the problems remain there -- kind of like the medical industry/pharmaceutical industry/etc. giving antidepressants/SSRIs, benzos, etc. to those with poverty, deep pains/struggles, and unsolvable problems to people as a way to pretend they aren't there without necessarily making them a non-problem for the most part. Like money or anything health-related there is an overlap with almost anything regarding our physiology, society and largely our actions -- so maybe we can solve money problems by solving lots of other related problems that run swiftly through them too like reducing the discrimination gap, opportunity/hopes, and of course internal health/productive/empathetic measures as a people too). All I know is that if everything is connected and you can't fix one thing, maybe it's time to fix something else associated with it -- or maybe just let yourself believe there are no inherent or consequential problems borne of our society/health/state of being and circumstances today.

Posts like this are silly. Saying "jobs won't end poverty" is radically incomplete, if you don't understand how unemployment and job numbers are reported.

The reported unemployment rate only takes into account people actively looking for a job that don't have one. It doesn't include those retired (who shouldn't be counted), but also ignores those that have given up looking because they can't find work.


The number of Full Time employees was only 130 Million before the COVID nonsense. There are 350 Million or so people in the US. Stripping out kids and retirees, that would still suggest somewhere in the area of 50-90 Million people without jobs or incomes. Adding a half million or so jobs isn't going to make much of a dent, just like taking a bucket full of water out of a full bathtub won't affect the water level much. Of course, those job report numbers are always reported out of context, so 500,000 may be in the that context of 250,000 or so lost jobs. Like pouring half the bucket back into the tub. But if you added 30 Million jobs over the course of a few months with no job losses........ it would be a totally different story.

I think the bigger problems with poverty lie with those that steal value from transactions while providing little or nothing in return. Those would mainly be the banksters and government, who take value in interest and taxes. I've heard that 90% of the money in a home sale goes to the banks (and maybe also the government) through interest and taxes. That leaves only 10% or so for the builders, architects, plumbers, landowners, etc. If you could eliminate that fraud, have builders sell houses for 20% of current "values," make 2-4X times the profit, more people would and could own homes, the builders could add jobs, and poverty would shrink dramatically in a few years, maybe even disappear. That is a much better solution than UBI, which I see as little more than begging a bankrupt criminal entity for a few dollars it doesn't really have in the first place.
 

Missenger

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For us right now in the 21st century, that means we live and die by fossil fuels (85% of primary global energy consumption). If you want to know where we are collectively headed in the future, keep an eye on what's going with oil, gas, and coal production, quality, and prices.
Yeah, I'm seeing that rather blatantly when they ban energy production to destroy western countries under the guise of 'green peace'.

With a labor based economy someone specifically has to decide that value, and to consolidate that power they either used paid protesters or force funded by financial loans not based around labor. Marx himself is from a merchant family.
 
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Hugh Johnson

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It's not about jobs, it's about national income. Plenty of communist societies had nominal unemployment of 0% - everyone had something to do that they got paid for - but the system was bad at creating wealth and so the net result was 100% employment and everyone is equally poor. 1,000,000 workers making $100 per month isn't a lot of productivity, but it sure is a lot of misery.

It would make more sense to have 10% unemployment and higher incomes among the employed, for a much higher total national income.

If one takes the view that only jobs, jobs, jobs matter then you'll end up with a lot of low-value, make-work jobs and projects.

The ultimate source of all income is energy production, because in order to generate any economic activity one must move something or heat something, both of which require consumption of a store of energy.

As goes energy production, so does a society's happiness and success.

For us right now in the 21st century, that means we live and die by fossil fuels (85% of primary global energy consumption). If you want to know where we are collectively headed in the future, keep an eye on what's going with oil, gas, and coal production, quality, and prices.
I was talking about apples, you started talking about horses. I was not talking about the Soviet system so everything you said was irrelevant. That being said, even the soviet system worked better than the neoliberal hell they have now. People were happier and healthier under that system, because it was secure.

Unemployment does not create wealth, how would it? Moreover, full employment creates both wealth and higher incomes. Because there are jobs, people get higher wages due to having bargaining power, and because labour is expensive capital must invest in productivity improvements. Meanwhile labour gains skills and experience due to working instead of being unemployed, and has the ability to invest in skills, becoming more productive.

Full employment is easily created. By increasing aggregate demand people buy more services, because demand is infinite, purchasing power is not. The lies about "make work" projects are a red herring meant to justify involuntary unemployment. As far as moving away from fossil fuels, can not happen if people are worried about where their next meal is going to come from. That is why when a capitalist democracy has to conserve and redirect resources as it engages in total war, the first thing it does is increase aggregate demand and create a full employment economy. Most people are OK with have less crap. People are not OK with goign hungry and homeless while there are plenty of empty apartments.
 
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PxD

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I was talking about apples, you started talking about horses. I was not talking about the Soviet system so everything you said was irrelevant. That being said, even the soviet system worked better than the neoliberal hell they have now. People were happier and healthier under that system, because it was secure.

Unemployment does not create wealth, how would it? Moreover, full employment creates both wealth and higher incomes. Because there are jobs, people get higher wages due to having bargaining power, and because labour is expensive capital must invest in productivity improvements. Meanwhile labour gains skills and experience due to working instead of being unemployed, and has the ability to invest in skills, becoming more productive.

Full employment is easily created. By increasing aggregate demand people buy more services, because demand is infinite, purchasing power is not. The lies about "make work" projects are a red herring meant to justify involuntary unemployment. As far as moving away from fossil fuels, can not happen if people are worried about where their next meal is going to come from. That is why when a capitalist democracy has to conserve and redirect resources as it engages in total war, the first thing it does is increase aggregate demand and create a full employment economy. Most people are OK with have less crap. People are not OK with goign hungry and homeless while there are plenty of empty apartments.
Spoken like a central planner. You completely missed my point, then called it irrelevant.

Cuba must be a paradise with its full employment and skill building labor programs!
 

schultz

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Most jobs are stupid. Think I want to spend 9 hours a day with people I wouldn't normally hang around with, away from my wife and kids doing work that has no meaning to me for 40 years? I already wasted lots of my childhood going to school.

Cuba must be a paradise with its full employment and skill building labor programs!

They might be doing better without sanctions.
 

PxD

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Most jobs are stupid. Think I want to spend 9 hours a day with people I wouldn't normally hang around with, away from my wife and kids doing work that has no meaning to me for 40 years? I already wasted lots of my childhood going to school.



They might be doing better without sanctions.
I’m pretty sure the only country that sanctioned them is the USA. They’ve been freely trading with just about everyone else, including the capitalist pigs in Canada, Mexico and Europe for decades. Not only that, but were receiving massive amounts of state-sponsored help from the USSR back in the old days.

Re: jobs, I agree. But everybody has to pay bills, eh? This sort of ties into my point about aggregate income for a nation being more important than unemployment levels and providing jobs. Income/wealth is a human liberator; it frees us from drudgerous labor, at least to a degree, more is better. Note that when I talk about wealth I refer not to money but energy flows.

For me there is a good analogy between the Peat/Selye bioenergetic view of an organism and the energy-flow view of an economy.
 

Hugh Johnson

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Spoken like a central planner. You completely missed my point, then called it irrelevant.

Cuba must be a paradise with its full employment and skill building labor programs!
This is what I mean. Complete inability to think outside black and white terms. To have full employment, as stated previously, does not require central planning. Nor did I claim so, or advocate central planing. You lack even a rudimentary understanding of the economy, or ability to understand simple arguments.
 

meatbag

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GelatinGoblin

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Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
"The eugenicists, seeing themselves as a better class, wanted to eliminate poor people and immigrants, so there was a great overlap with the anti-union, anti-socialist political campaign. Working class people who were enthusiastic racists and anti-red were the instruments of the upper class who mostly stayed in the background."
I'm too sleep deprived for this :banghead:
 
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