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Calcirol - Liquid Vitamin D3

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks. I fully agree with the above and with Ray's statement that low vitamin D levels in kidney and liver disease are actually more of a result of the vitamin D deficiency than a cause of it.
     
  2. Travis

    Travis Member

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    Did you know that vitamin D₃ can be found in leaves?

    ➟ Napoli, J. "Solanum glaucophyllum as source of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃." Journal of Biological Chemistry (1977)

    'Vitamin D-deficient rats given an aqueous extract of the South American plant Solarium glaucophyllum accumulate 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃, in their blood and intestines at the time they show enhanced intestinal calcium absorption. The identity of the 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃, was established by co-chromatography with 1,25-dihydroxy—[23,24-³H]—vitamin D₃, on Sephadex LH-20 columns, microparticulate silica gel columns, a reversed-phase column developed under high pressure, and by a specific 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃ binding assay. The chromatographic systems used are fully capable of resolving all of the known metabolites of vitamin D₃,. Serum of the S. glaucophgyllum-treated rats showed 300 pg/ml of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃, and no detectable 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₂. Similarly, intestine of such rats had 230 pg/ml of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃. Control animals which received the vehicle instead of S. glaucophyllum had only 20 pg/ml of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃ in their serum and 4.4 pg/ml of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃, in their intestine. These results demonstrate that S. glaucophyllum extracts must be a source of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃; thus a significant basis for the calcinogenic properties of S. glaucophyllum must be the presence of a conjugated form of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D₃, which is rendered available by digestion.' ―Napoli

    Should this surprise anyone? It is well-known that leaves contain phytosterols, some differing only slightly from 7-dehydrocholesterol: the direct precursor of vitamin D₃.

    phystosterols.png

    Going from 7-dehydrocholesterol to vitamin D₃ is non-enzymatic; requiring only a photon—certainly leaves are in no short supply of those. Commercial vitamin D₃ is often made from irradiated lanolin, needing only the high-energy photons of UV light to effect the ring scission. Could this perhaps explain why vitamin D₃ levels of cows were found to remained stable despite being forced to wear an 'udder blanket?'—to cover . . . ALL . . . EXPOSED SURFACES:

    ➟ Hymøller, L. "Vitamin D₃ synthesis in the entire skin surface of dairy cows despite hair coverage." Journal of dairy science (2010)

    Instead of analyzing the grass for vitamin D₃ the authors had hypothesized a series of Rube Goldberg-like events to explain their results, which include (1) a retrograde transport of vitamin D₃—a waxy sterol—against the sebum pressure gradient and hair outgrowth rate, and (2) actual quantum tunneling of photons down the hair shaft (or something similar; I had read this study almost a year ago so cannot remember exactly what words they'd used.) But due to the spontaneous nature of the event, you'd expect any leaf having phytosterols to also contain their respective open-ring scission analogues which are very similar to vitamin D₃—if not actually being so in itself.

    One might further speculate that this, along with microtubules, could be another light-sensing mechanism of the plant. It's well known that buds and shoots respond to light by growing toward it, but I don't think this is ever really adequately explained. Perhaps photons from UV light cause the ring scission of plant cell membrane-intercolated phytosterols creating vitamin D-like plant hormones only in well-irradiated leaves. Calcium is also necessary in leaves, forming an obligatory ion in the oxygen-evolving complex of photosystem II: the primary photosynthetic enzyme. Vitamin D₃ causes both differentiation and calcium influx in mammals; I don't think that it'd be too hard to imagine it could do something similar in plants in response to light, after being formed by such. Steroid signalling is known to occur in plants:

    ➞ Jiang, J. "Expression of a plant gene with sequence similarity to animal TGF‐β receptor interacting protein is regulated by brassinosteroids and required for normal plant development." The Plant Journal (2001)

     
  3. GeoX

    GeoX Member

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    Haidut, thank you for your confirmation. I've continued to take 5-8 drops topically every day and the reaction is disappearing. Presently I don't supplement K but do eat egg shells daily with high-K2 foods and spray magnesium chloride.
     
  4. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    You mean problems in these organs? Because I remember hearing that from him.

    Ray mentioned somewhere that he uses an UVb lamp. I'm sure no one would be bothered to do such thing if supplementing had the same effect, especially because it involves skin damage and it's way less convenient. I asked your opinion about it before and you believe it shouldn't make a difference because the storage forms are identical either way but there should be more to the story. Perhaps some metabolites that weren't screened when researchers focus on detecting a specific one, or ones that act so fast that aren't detected, etc. I don't know, but a fair point would be that it's more difficult to get the dosage right through supplementation.
     
  5. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Maybe this is related to your post on the greater calcium found in darker leaves. Finally nature is on the side of my people.
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, I meant that the vitamin D deficiency causes problems in those organs.
     
  7. Travis

    Travis Member

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    I actually found a review article on this and vitamin D₃ and it's congeners have actually been found in many plants. The very close steroid, called sitocalciferol or vitamin D₅, is found in countless other leaves—simply being the photolyzed open-ring sitosterol, the plant steroid (see above image).

    ➞ Boland, R. "Vitamin D compounds in plants." Plant Science (2003)
    And fish, despite having large concentrations in their liver, cannot produce vitamin D₃ on account of having scales and being commonly found being underwater (or in sushi, protected from UV radiation by rice). Instead: fish get vitamin D₃ produced from algae and sunlight. All of the vitamin D₃ found in cod liver oil used historically to treat rickets had originally come from a plant, in flat contradiction to the popular conception of vitamin D₃ being exclusively an animal hormone.
     
  8. Lucenzo01

    Lucenzo01 Member

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    @haidut , have you done blood tests comparing topical calcirol with standard oral D supplements? If so, can you give an approximate equivalence? Thanks.
     
  9. denise

    denise Member

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    Have you added D-Limonene to the CortiNon too? I noticed a nice citrusy scent and wondered what it could be from.
     
  10. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, we did but not sure how long we will keep it in the formulation as quite a few people started sending emails and freaking out :):
     
  11. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/nothing-boring-about-boron.22805/

    "Boron May Improve the Effects of Vitamin D Supplementation in “Nonresponders”

    Support for boron’s potential for beneficial effects on vitamin D levels is suggested by recent research investigating the relationship between levels of the NA methylation of CYP24A1, a 24-hydroxylase enzyme, and CYP2R1, a 25-hydroxylase enzyme, and also by examining postmenopausal women’s ability to increase serum 25(OH)D3 in response to vitamin-D supplementation.32

    Researchers randomly assigned 446 white, postmenopausal women to a calcium and vitamin D intervention, 1100 IU/day, for at least 12 months. From these subjects, 18 with the highest 12-month increase in serum 25(OH)D3 were selected as responders, and 18 with the lowest 12-month increase in serum 25(OH)D3 were selected as nonresponders. Levels of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) methylation for the 2 groups were compared.

    Methylation silences or shuts down activity in these CpG sites; thus, greater methylation leads to lessened production of the hydroxylase. Responders had significantly lower baseline levels of DNA methylation in the promoter region of CYP2R1—a 25-hydroxylase that activates vitamin D—than nonresponders had, 8% versus 30%, respectively. That finding indicated a greater production of 25-hydroxylase, and, thus, greater potential for vitamin-D activation.

    Responders also had lower baseline levels of DNA methylation in the promoter region of CYP24A1, a 24-hydroxylase that degrades vitamin D, than the nonresponders had, 13% versus 32%, respectively. This finding possibly indicates a balance in responders’ ability to both activate and then degrade vitamin D. Although nonresponders’ levels of DNA methylation of CYP24A1 were greater, it is unknown whether the 24-hydroxylase enzymes that they produced had a higher-than-average rate of activity. Boron was not included in this investigation, but it would have been germane to have assayed subjects’ boron intake and serum levels because boron inhibits the activity of 24-hydroxylase."​

    I read your opinion and although a frank deficiency is improbable, we don't know how supplementation of specific minerals affect its status.
     
  12. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    I have the impression that the body has less difficulty metabolizing vit D derived from the sun, especially when depleted of nutrients. Whenever we have something excessive for what we can handle at the time, it's put to storage and released little by little. One way to get around that is through niacinamide supplementation along with fat-soluble vitamins. It's a good strategy to replenish the body of them in a safer way than forcing it to use them right away. Some people already do it without realizing.

    There must be experiments on this: rate of weight loss on animals fed different types of fat, or toxins accumulated in fat tissues versus clean fat.

    I just want to let you know that I would respect you even used a pink font.
     
  13. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    I'm not sure I get your point, are you saying the niacinamide will encourage one to store fat-soluble vitamins as it pushes glucose metabolism and encourages fat storage?
     
  14. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Yes. They're not in their active forms but if the conditions are right, they're metabolized right away. I think most of vit of K and perhaps some of the E are metabolized regardless of niacinamide supplementation.
    Vit D involves fat tissue saturation as well, so there's that.
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Have you tried B3 supplementation with vitamin D? If yes, how much did you take and what changes did you see?
     
  16. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Yes. I don't remember exactly but it was a low dose; the only difference seemed a delayed effect from vit of D.

    A lot of people take niacin on a daily basis, plenty of foods have it added. It puts fatty stuff into storage and they can get away with bad habits, such as excess unsaturated oils consumption. The problem isn't much different from an improper supplement dose, it's difficult to grasp if it's being dosed right if you're forcing its storage. Am I missing something?
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think this is pretty accurate. So, niacinamide is a bit of moral hazard then. Same with vitamin E and aspirin, both of which are anti-lipolytic.
     
  18. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Is this a case in favor of fat-soluble vitamin supplementation with the last meals of the day? Since they're consumed in their storage forms, maybe they aren't able to disrupt daily rhythms, otherwise people would be having their cycles messed up during the night.
     
  19. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

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    @haidut Any idea how much d-limonene would improve transdermal absorption? Any plans to add it to retinil/estroban? Do you see any problems with mixing all 3 on the skin and rubbing together (retinil/estroban/calcirol) in order to get the d-limonene absorption effects in estroban and retinil too?
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I don't think limonene adds that much and this is why we probably won't keep it going forward. It does add a nice smell but I did not see difference on my blood tests with/without limonene.
    You should be able to mix the retinil/estroban/calcirol but usually fatty stuff goes better together with other fatty stuff. So, if you are using Retinil palmitate it would go best with EstroBan and if you are using the acetate it would be best mixed with Calcirol. You still use all 3 but I am just saying what goes best with what. Even the mismatched solvents can all be applied at the same time but on different body parts, for optimal effect.
     
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