Blood Pressure Jumps All Over The Place - Frustrating!

[yerrag]

I keep thinking of getting a manual blood pressure device, a sphygnomanometer, but I keep holding off because I'm spoiled with the convenience of using an electronic blood pressure monitor. Especially looking at the study below that says the manual device is more accurate than the digital one. I may just take the plunge. But before I do so, I have the ff. questions:

1.The nice thing about the digital one is that it tells me if I have irregular heart beat. Can using a manual device do that?

2. Another thing is, why does the digital device reading jump around so much? Is it the device? Or is it just normal for the device to be so off at consecutive readings? Or is it because I have a really high blood pressure that really, a digital device doesn't function well above a certain range of blood pressure? For example, just now, here are my consecutive readings: 215/123, 176/120, 202/113, 188/119, 184/118, 211/120, 211/125, 180/110, 179/116, 214/144. In some reading, the irregular heartbeat is flashing.

Even in days when the irregular heart beat isn't flashing, the readings still jump all over the place.

3. Are manual devices going to be better at taking readings, regardless of whether the blood pressure is high, normal, or low? In terms of accuracy and consistency in successive readings.

4. Is it difficult to learn to use a manual device? What is the hardest part in using a sphygnomanometer?

5. What kind of sphygnomanometers are best? There are the old ones that are bulky I use to see in the old days, and there are smaller ones these days. Will the bulky ones work better?

@Blossom would very much appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Blossom]

A digital device is much easier for checking yourself. I personally prefer using a manual cuff and stethoscope though. A manual BP can be tricky to self check but I'm sure you'd get the hang of it with practice. As far as manual cuffs go the most important thing for getting an accurate reading is using the correct size. Many people under or over estimate the size of their arm and can end up with an inaccurate reading from using a cuff that is too big or too small.
For the best result using a digital cuff I'd sit in a comfortable chair and cross you arm over your chest.
@nwo2012 and @tallglass13 might have something to add on this as well!

 

[raypeatclips]

Wow why is your blood pressure so high?

 

[nwo2012]

A digital device is much easier for checking yourself. I personally prefer using a manual cuff and stethoscope though. A manual BP can be tricky to self check but I'm sure you'd get the hang of it with practice. As far as manual cuffs go the most important thing for getting an accurate reading is using the correct size. Many people under or over estimate the size of their arm and can end up with an inaccurate reading from using a cuff that is too big or too small.
For the best result using a digital cuff I'd sit in a comfortable chair and cross you arm over your chest.
@nwo2012 and @tallglass13 might have something to add on this as well!

Good reply Blossom, you got this!
@yerrag, in reply to point 1, you just check your pulse by hand and you will know immediately if your heart is beating regularly or not.
Have you been medically diagnosed with arrhythmia or AF etc? Not that it matters, all symptoms of hypothyroidism and possibly calcification of the heart or vessels. How's your eating? You want to get control over that BP before you suffer damage to organs such as the kidneys. Id suggest some Acetazolomide for a Peaty way to lower BP quickly, and increase CO2. Lots of Buteyko and bag breathing too.

 

[Blossom]

Good reply Blossom, you got this!
@yerrag, in reply to point 1, you just check your pulse by hand and you will know immediately if your heart is beating regularly or not.
Have you been medically diagnosed with arrhythmia or AF etc? Not that it matters, all symptoms of hypothyroidism and possibly calcification of the heart or vessels. How's your eating? You want to get control over that BP before you suffer damage to organs such as the kidneys. Id suggest some Acetazolomide for a Peaty way to lower BP quickly, and increase CO2. Lots of Buteyko and bag breathing too.

Thanks @nwo2012, I had a feeling you'd have some helpful tips for @yerrag!

 

[yerrag]

A digital device is much easier for checking yourself. I personally prefer using a manual cuff and stethoscope though. A manual BP can be tricky to self check but I'm sure you'd get the hang of it with practice. As far as manual cuffs go the most important thing for getting an accurate reading is using the correct size. Many people under or over estimate the size of their arm and can end up with an inaccurate reading from using a cuff that is too big or too small.
For the best result using a digital cuff I'd sit in a comfortable chair and cross you arm over your chest.
@nwo2012 and @tallglass13 might have something to add on this as well!

Crossing my arm over my chest - I've never done that before. I have to test it out. Thanks blossom!

I just don't know if I'm getting accurate readings from the Omron when my blood pressure is this high. Hence the inconsistency in its readings. I was just thinking that these electronic devices' algorithms are designed only to work well within certain deviations from the mean, and where I'm at I'm outside the bell curve. Most people with my blood pressure condition would already be taking drugs, and so I'm an outlier that isn't part of Omron's consideration when it comes to accuracy and repeatability. This is the reason why I'm considering using a sphygnomanometer. I hope I'm making sense here.

Then again, the device may just be having a hard time figuring my blood pressure when my heart rate is irregular.

I was also thinking of a suggestion a friend made. He tells me that it may help to have a stethoscope around and use it together with the Omron. I would be looking at the screen of the Omron and hearing from the stethoscope, and I would know what the systolic and diastolic are. Do you think this will work?

Wow why is your blood pressure so high?

It has to do with lead in my kidneys. I read somewhere it's stuck in the mitochondria. Been to many naturopaths, and there's only so much their abilities can do. It's gone down plenty from 240/140 since I began magnesium and vitamin C, but it's now hit a wall. Tryings all forms of magnesium. Considering magnesium orotate, which Dr. Nieper say is a very good mineral transporter, able to transport magnesium to the inner cell, into the mitochondria, where it will kick the lead out. No prescription drugs for me - they don't solve the problem, may make it worse. But I'm doing fine. No headaches. Body temps are 37C, heart rate can be better at mid60s to the low 70s.

I have this latest episode of blood pressure highs probably from lack of sleep, as I have been urinating a lot at night. May or may not be a good thing with all that urination. Maybe the liver and kidneys doing work overtime to get rid of the lead, or maybe it was from eating 2 bags of tortilla chips (which I haven't eating in a long while) and it's taking time to rid the body of the glyphosates from the corn. Who knows? Maybe a wild guess. Maybe truth is stranger than fiction.

Good reply Blossom, you got this!
@yerrag, in reply to point 1, you just check your pulse by hand and you will know immediately if your heart is beating regularly or not.
Have you been medically diagnosed with arrhythmia or AF etc? Not that it matters, all symptoms of hypothyroidism and possibly calcification of the heart or vessels. How's your eating? You want to get control over that BP before you suffer damage to organs such as the kidneys. Id suggest some Acetazolomide for a Peaty way to lower BP quickly, and increase CO2. Lots of Buteyko and bag breathing too.

Good idea with checking pulse. So I can feel the irregularity of the heartbeat by feeling my pulse? I like the idea. The less medical devices and gadgets involved, the more I like.


As for arrhythmia, I don't have a problem except that when I take some minerals, it does happen occasionally. Like, when I take magnesium without potassium (bananas or KCl), my Omron would detect irregular heart beat. I have no hypothyroidism though. Temps, ECG Qtc, and Achilles Tendon Reflex Test - all good. My heart rate often around mid60s though, and I have work to do to get it over 80.

As for damage to kidneys, it's under control as I check my urine albumin/creatinine ratio, and they're fine, although I excrete albumin more than I'd like to, due to the kidney condition. Still, it's not something I take lightly. And working full time still to lower my blood pressure without Rx drugs.

And I've tried Buteyko to increase carbon dioxide, it only makes my BP worse. Increased tissue oxygenation only makes my BP go higher. Although this is something I have to dig out from the obscure confines of the web (I hope I saved it - will need to share this) it has to do with my kidneys' need for uric acid to protect itself from the free radicals from lead toxicity. Hypoxic conditions are needed to produce more uric acid, and restricting blood vessels does the job. Unfortuately, it also increases the blood pressure.

 

[Blossom]

@yerrag I do think you get the most accurate readings manually. I believe you're correct about the digital cuff not being precise enough outside the normal ranges. I view the digital ones as better than nothing and decent for home monitoring to let someone know if they are heading in the wrong direction. For the best accuracy I'd go manual unless you feel holding your arm across your chest solves the fluctuation issue. This is just my personal experience though, not based on any studies.

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag I do think you get the most accurate readings manually. I believe you're correct about the digital cuff not being precise enough outside the normal ranges. I view the digital ones as better than nothing and decent for home monitoring to let someone know if they are heading in the wrong direction. For the best accuracy I'd go manual unless you feel holding your arm across your chest solves the fluctuation issue. This is just my personal experience though, not based on any studies.

The crossing of arms help a lot.

And then I tried to feel the pulse of the brachial artery, something I have not done before. It was difficult looking for it, and I finally had to find where the inner third of the upper arm is, and then found it. Then I tried to line up the cuff where the sign says "Art." to this spot. And now I'm getting more consistent readings:

183/109, 179/118, 180/114,189/111, 183/106, 178/114, 178/123, 191/108,179/114

I've been doing wrong all along, not positioning the cuff well.

I'm going to stick with my Omron for a little bit more, and see if fixing the user error would rid me of my problems with repeatability.

Thanks!

 

[Blossom]

The crossing of arms help a lot.

And then I tried to feel the pulse of the brachial artery, someone I have not done before. It was difficult looking for it, and I finally had to find where the inner third of the upper arm is, and then found it. Then I tried to line up the cuff where the sign says "Art." to this spot. And now I'm getting more consistent readings:

183/109, 179/118, 180/114,189/111, 183/106, 178/114, 178/123, 191/108,179/114

I've been doing wrong all along, not positioning the cuff well.

I'm going to stick with my Omron for a little bit more, and see if fixing the user error would rid me of my problems with repeatability.

Thanks!

I'm glad it's working better! Keep us posted please!

 

[yerrag]

I'm glad it's working better! Keep us posted please!

Just the thought of buying and using a sphygno made me have to look for the spot where my pulse is. With the Omron, I could be lazy and not place my cuff right where it should be. Not so much the device's fault as much as it allows me the freedom to mess up, and sure I did. With a sphygno, I have to find where the pulse is, or else it won't work.

 

[Blossom]

Just the thought of buying and using a sphygno made me have to look for the spot where my pulse is. With the Omron, I could be lazy and not place my cuff right where it should be. Not so much the device's fault as much as it allows me the freedom to mess up, and sure I did. With a sphygno, I have to find where the pulse is, or else it won't work.

So true, even with a manual cuff you have to have decent technique. It sounds like you've got this figured out!

 

[yerrag]

So true, even with a manual cuff you have to have decent technique. It sounds like you've got this figured out!

Now, it makes me wonder whether some of the nurses and doctors at hospitals and clinics are not doing it right.

I once asked a physical therapist, a doctor by the way, to take an Achilles tendon reflex test for my mom, and he acceded. But knowing how it's done, and seeing him do it with the neuro hammer, I saw how wrongly he was doing it. Perhaps he forgot, or perhaps he thought I didn't know about it, but he just ended up saying my mom wasn't hypothyroid. We let any things done wrongly pass because we don't know enough to tell it's being done wrong, it seems.

 

[Animalinstinct]

Whoa those are some concerningly high blood pressure figures. How old are you yerrag?

From what i’ve seen you’re very knowledgable and active in the forum. How do you tackle this thing, especially through a peat prism.

 

[BingDing]

My Omron does the same thing, I don't think it's all that important. Take an average of the readings and you'll have a good idea of where you are. Like one's weight, the particular number is not as important as the range it's in.

Somewhere there is a report of a scientist who reviewed all the high blood pressure studies that were supposed to show how bad high sodium is, and concluded that it is really low calcium that causes it. That stimulates aldosterone and then there is a cascade ending with the renin-angiotensin system increasing BP. That might be an approach to lowering your BP (and keeping phosphorous lower than calcium, as usual).

 

[yerrag]

Whoa those are some concerningly high blood pressure figures. How old are you yerrag?

From what i’ve seen you’re very knowledgable and active in the forum. How do you tackle this thing, especially through a peat prism.

I'm 55. Thanks for your nice words. I think that from the Peat prism, it's about approaching it from a standpoint of having good metabolism to begin with. This gives enough energy for the body to rebuild, to heal, to regenerate, to balance itself, and to defend itself from threats such as cancer and infections. When there is surplus energy after all these, then the body can use it to develop - the brain foremost, and then the cosmetic aspects such as skin and hair.

But I've come to see very high metabolism as a luxury for most people - the kind that allows you to have a high heart rate upwards of 80. Most people are dealing with internal stresses, and lowering these stresses are more important than aiming for high metabolism. Ray Peat has talked about it in The problem of Alzheimer's disease as a clue to immortality Part 2 : The older the person is, the more emphasis should be put on protective inhibition, rather than immediately increasing energy production.

In my case, I see the high blood pressure as a similar mechanism working, although the protective inhibition was forced upon me by my body, in adapting to a destructive situation involving lead toxicity in my kidneys. If I were to give in to the pervading fear that not lowering my blood pressure would destroy my kidneys (which is not unrealistic), I would be jumping the gun to prevent an occurrence far into the future. Instead, I see time to be on my side as I try to understand what is causing my blood pressure to go so high. With luck, I have figured out a reasonable theory to explain what was going on, and with this understanding, I chose to not to resist and counter my hypertensive condition with Rx drugs. To do so would be, for me, to disrespect the inner wisdom of my body, and to lose the protection it is giving me. At the same time, I was able to find the cause of it, and knowing this enemy now, I can proceed to dismantle this enemy piecemeal.

I think I'm not alone in not being able to find cures with doctors, from both the conventional and naturopathic areas. I have a sister with candida who spent all her savings for a cure, and it left her literally penniless. I have a nephew now who has CRMO, and her mother has been to doctors of both varieties, and all they can tell them is "we don't know." I think that it would be safe to say that is the experience of most people. The answer to this is to self-cure yourself. While I don't think this is something everyone can do, those who can have no other choice. The problem though, lies in knowing oneself, whether one can do it. Unless I have cured myself, I still won't say I'm a candidate for self-curing. Having said that, I really have no other choice.

My hypertension is the result of the body telling my kidney arterioles to constrict, so as to produce a hypoxic state where it's needed. It's needed to produce plenty of uric acid, an antioxidant, to protect my kidneys from the destructive effect of free radicals generated from lead in my kidneys. While the lead toxicity is obviously not a good thing, the high blood pressure, seen in this light, is a good thing. Were I to take a prescription drug simply to meet good blood pressure numbers (and be eligible for life and health insurance, a laughable thought), I would find myself really benefiting from both these insurance policies, wouldn't I? I may find myself losing my kidneys, being on dialysis, and be looking for a kidney donor. No thanks, I can live without the health and life insurance, but I can't live without a kidney. Nor do I want someone else's kidney, and be on expensive medication to keep me alive.

I rather that, for now, I put up with this hypertensive state. In this state, I am still very healthy. I have enough metabolism to keep my temperature at 37C, and continue to have strong immunity - no allergies, and flu and fever free for the past 18 years, and I the only body pain I experience is a slight pain on my left knee. I could have more hair, although I'm not balding either, and my heart rate could be higher. Currently, I wake up to 56, during the day it goes up from 63 to 71. I would like it to be at 85, but at my current state of inhibition (due to reduced tissue oxygenation to produce uric acid) I have to settle for less.

If I don't fix this, I could forever be hypertensive, and eventually it may impact my kidneys. But still, I would have extended the use of my kidneys rather than see it deteriorate so quickly using hypertensive drugs. That is the worst case. But I'm hoping I can chelate the lead out of my kidneys, and I'm hard at work making that happen. There is already progress, but currently I have hit a wall. Still more tinkering, I guess.

 

[tallglass13]

thanks @Blossom, yes, also its very important to ensure to have very good batteries if the b/p machine is battery operated. The arm can be at the side or resting in a lateral position. Its also prudent to assess both arms for a average reading.

 

[Blossom]

thanks @Blossom, yes, also its very important to ensure to have very good batteries if the b/p machine is battery operated. The arm can be at the side or resting in a lateral position. Its also prudent to assess both arms for a average reading.

Thanks @tallglass13! That's an excellent point about checking both arms. For something seemingly so simple there are multiple issues that can have an impact. I thought it would be nice to get input from people with experience.

 

[tankasnowgod]

It has to do with lead in my kidneys. I read somewhere it's stuck in the mitochondria. Been to many naturopaths, and there's only so much their abilities can do. It's gone down plenty from 240/140 since I began magnesium and vitamin C, but it's now hit a wall. Tryings all forms of magnesium. Considering magnesium orotate, which Dr. Nieper say is a very good mineral transporter, able to transport magnesium to the inner cell, into the mitochondria, where it will kick the lead out. No prescription drugs for me - they don't solve the problem, may make it worse. But I'm doing fine. No headaches. Body temps are 37C, heart rate can be better at mid60s to the low 70s.

I have this latest episode of blood pressure highs probably from lack of sleep, as I have been urinating a lot at night. May or may not be a good thing with all that urination. Maybe the liver and kidneys doing work overtime to get rid of the lead, or maybe it was from eating 2 bags of tortilla chips (which I haven't eating in a long while) and it's taking time to rid the body of the glyphosates from the corn. Who knows? Maybe a wild guess. Maybe truth is stranger than fiction.

Have you had an iron panel and/or tried to donate blood? I think all heavy metals, including excess iron, put extra stress on the kidneys, so lowering even a moderatly high iron burden may help out with the condition you have. My blood pressure went down over time as I lowered iron via phlebotomy. Beyond this, it certainly helps reduce blood pressure in the short term.

Also, if you haven't checked out the inclined bed therapy thread here, you might want to too. One of the benefits of IBT is improved detox, and I am wondering if that might help in your case.

 

[Blossom]

One of the benefits of IBT is improved detox, and I am wondering if that might help in your case.

 

[Owen B]

https://www.heartmath.com/
Probably not the kind of thing you're looking for, but training with a heart rate variability biofeedback device has been shown to slow respiration rate, heart rate and blood pressure. Probably also change respiratory sinus arrhythmia.

Increasing heart rate variability is the goal. It increases the coherence of the heart rhythm and will relate to other coherent systems.

Like also, probably, metabolic changes at the molecular level.

Good luck.