[Non Peat] Undermethylators, Ketogenesis

[CoolTweetPete]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113806

post 113758 Well walnuts are one thing but peanuts...do you want to kill someone?

Anyway Kineticz, I wouldn't mind giving it a test if nothing else just to have another experience with it up here. I asked a vegan friend who I knew would have the oils ( hemp oil is like $25 around here plus like $10 for some sunflower oil) and keep them fresh if I could have some and she said yeah. So I will probably go and pick them up sometime this weekend. Glutathione is way to expensive for just testing and messing around with. It seems like it's big in the paleo world? So I may ask around for that one too. I feel good on a "modified" peat diet so I'm not sure I will stick with it to long unless I feel amazing. I like to try new things just because it's refreshing and even if it's doesn't go well I usually learn something about myself if nothing else.

I am curiose what your day looks like as far as supplementing all this stuff. I thinking it's something like this:

Am: 5ml mag, 60mg p5p, 400mg glutathione, k2?

noon:?

Pm: 5ml mag, 60mg p5p, lipid exchange

also some amount of amino acids that I would not be using at this point.

Is that close? thanks for all the info

I'm also curious.. Btw not just vit B6(p5p) is important, but all B vit especially folate(from food not folic acid from supplements. I threw away B Complex from swanson, because there was 50 mg of folic acid lol..) video with explanation. Btw lentils are rich in folate. So I eat 100g of lentils a day(well soaked and cooked) they also have very good zinc-copper ratio..

[bbvideo=560,315]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzR1NMg0hM[/bbvideo]

anyway glutathione is also too much expensive for me, but I can buy some hemp and sunflower oil. But for magnesium I take magnesium chloride baths every day now. So before bath mix of oils and 50mg of p5p? Is it important take oils, p5p and magnesium in the same time or it doesn't matter?

Dr. Lynch is brilliant. He elucidated that difference between folic acid (garbage) and methyltetrahydrafolate (usable), especially for people with MTHFR mutations who reach significant roadblocks (40-70%) in methylation due to genetic mutation.

My girlfriend has 1 copy of the MTHFR mutation (or motherf**ker gene as it's so lovingly referred to) and is pregnant. If we had not known she might have been taking a crappy prenatal with folic acid (which most prenatals contain).

 

[YuraCZ]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

Dr. Lynch is brilliant. He elucidated that difference between folic acid (garbage) and methyltetrahydrafolate (usable), especially for people with MTHFR mutations who reach significant roadblocks (40-70%) in methylation due to genetic mutation.

My girlfriend has 1 copy of the MTHFR mutation (or motherf**ker gene as it's so lovingly referred to) and is pregnant. If we had not known she might have been taking a crappy prenatal with folic acid (which most prenatals contain).

It's a shame, because now I can't just take B complex for B vitamins, because all contain folic acid.. So now I wonder, which B vitamins should be taken through the supplements and which through the diet. B6(p5p) 50mg a day in capsules for sure and others in vegetables, meat, liver..?

 

[CoolTweetPete]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113876

Dr. Lynch is brilliant. He elucidated that difference between folic acid (garbage) and methyltetrahydrafolate (usable), especially for people with MTHFR mutations who reach significant roadblocks (40-70%) in methylation due to genetic mutation.

My girlfriend has 1 copy of the MTHFR mutation (or motherf**ker gene as it's so lovingly referred to) and is pregnant. If we had not known she might have been taking a crappy prenatal with folic acid (which most prenatals contain).

It's a shame, because now I can't just take B complex for B vitamins, because all contain folic acid.. So now I wonder, which B vitamins should be taken through the supplements and which through the diet. B6(p5p) 50mg a day in capsules for sure and others in vegetables, meat, liver..?

This B-complex uses good forms, including L5-MTHF.

http://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Research-M ... B00HST919C

 

[jyb]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

True, he certainly encourages independent thinking and self experimentation. That being said, I can tell you he would never agree/encourage the consumption of a tbsp of hemp oil and a tsp of sunflower oil daily. So technically we are not building upon his theories by doing free PUFA oil consumption. I'm not knocking the idea if it works, I eat peanuts or almonds occasionally because I feel good with them; and I know they're not Peat friendly. But from all the discussions I've had with Peat, all I can say is he would certainly not recommend "experimenting" with free PUFA oils.

1 tbspn

post 113869

post 113867

post 113347

post 113344

post 113343 So I just drop carbs around 100g a day and no too much cholesterol for now as you said.. Definitely drop calcium, buy some l carnitine and tyrosine is enough from meat? Glycine, zinc, p5p I already take.. Btw CFM 80% whey protein and butter is ok?

Avoid whey protein, they contain synthetic sources that deplete your B6 stores and if you are undermethylating then whey protein will be increasing histidine, glutamate and homocysteine as it does not contain the minerals to methylate.

Meat has plenty of tyrosine to replenish your kidneys and metabolism. Cholesterol is useless if ATP/methylation is low. ATP is central to gut metabolism and therefore effective metabolism of cholesterol sources. Add it in when you start methylating and your glutathione stores increase and kidneys become less calcified.

100g carbs sounds good to me. It's integral that you start working on intracellular magnesium to combine with your zinc and P5P.

I have pure CFM whey powder without additives except some soy lecithin.. Btw what meat we talking about here and why you eat on keto diet lean meat? It Doesn't makes sense to me.

Soy lecithin contains pufas

In 25g (one serving) of powder is negligible amount of lecithin = trace amount of pufa. So it's like saying broccoli has pufa don't eat it.

The problem with soy products (even lecithin) is estrogen, and possibly contaminants. Otherwise, it has almost 0 fat so clearly pufa is not a problem. However, we don't all react badly to it. I'm sure someone healthy can eat lots of soy and hardly be affected by it, and just like for pufa some diets probably can protect against it.

 

[charlie]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113913 The problem with soy products (even lecithin) is estrogen, and possibly contaminants.

Related topics:
Soy Lecithin
Lecithin

 

[YuraCZ]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

The problem with soy products (even lecithin) is estrogen, and possibly contaminants. Otherwise, it has almost 0 fat so clearly pufa is not a problem. However, we don't all react badly to it. I'm sure someone healthy can eat lots of soy and hardly be affected by it, and just like for pufa some diets probably can protect against it.

I think there's a reason why are PUFAs in EVERYTHING what we can eat (plants or animals) in small or trace amounts. Maybe because our bodies needs them in these small/ trace amounts? Btw I have PUFAs under 5g per day..

 

[What-a-Riot]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

"I think there's a reason why are PUFAs in EVERYTHING what we can eat (plants or animals) in small or trace amounts. Maybe because our bodies needs them in these small/ trace amounts? Btw I have PUFAs under 5g per day."

Personally I don't buy into the idea that other life-forms exist to sustain humans. I think "real food" is organic food. Living things are composed of materials that sustain them, and what sustains life for one earth life-form is likely to serve a function in any other. A high concentration of PUFA, it seems, is more conducive to plant than animal life

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

He would like us to perceive, think, act on his suspicions that something he is doing could be beneficial to others. But like you said it would be nice if there were publications about this other than Dr Myhill's website which seem scientifically incomplete.

This. I have over 10,000 hours worth of legitimate sources and significant expense on my behalf. I'm not going to empty my bookmark folder, or answer what I think is stray logic, and I'm not going to convince anyone of whether I have committed to what I'm trying to explore with people. I have spent more time and money than any of you to provide my approach.

I am providing my approach so people can explore a possible caveat to the use of oils and magnesium.

 

[jb116]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113946

He would like us to perceive, think, act on his suspicions that something he is doing could be beneficial to others. But like you said it would be nice if there were publications about this other than Dr Myhill's website which seem scientifically incomplete.

This. I have over 10,000 hours worth of legitimate sources and significant expense on my behalf. I'm not going to empty my bookmark folder, or answer what I think is stray logic, and I'm not going to convince anyone of whether I have committed to what I'm trying to explore with people. I have spent more time and money than any of you to provide my approach.

I am providing my approach so people can explore a possible caveat to the use of oils and magnesium.

Again, you can state you have this and that amount of hours you put in. I don't think it matters to strangers simply telling them that. If you have an idea the burden is on you to explain it - clearly mind you, not saying it has to be totally spelled out - and you have to be willing to discuss it IF YOU ARE ON A FORUM.
You know it's not a special ability to simply regurgitate the notion of "perceive, think, act." You conversely, need to live up to it too. Again, you're on a forum, you share an idea, it's on you to roll with what comes at you under the general notion of discussing and/or debate. Otherwise, do consider my idea I mentioned in the previous post, it would make the most sense for somebody who gets this defensive about discussing scientific ideas. It's absurd.

It still stands to reason, from what one can surmise from your posts that you still haven't qualified "undermethylation" versus hypothyroid. Also there is no distinct cause and effect or prevalence of order in processes i.e. what really controls what. There is quantified amount of unsaturated fats one would need that's not based on an opinion. Approaching nutrition a peat way one could very well get enough pufa naturally occurring in a lot of foods without resorting to peculiar methods like taking spoonfuls of pufa oils. Lot of us are on this forum for a reason and we do stand against pufa in general. One can also get from your posts that b6 and magnesium are indeed important however something at least to me is already emphasized within the way of thinking represented by this forum.

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3505340

Reduce brain calcification, boost the sodium/potassium pumps, and boost taurine.

Kidney disease also needs you to replenish l-serine which converts to our favourite, glycine. It protects the myelin sheath, coincidentally, improving ATP brain delivery.

http://www.vitaminstuff.com/amino-acid-serine.html

Reducing kidney disease via magnesium also increases magnesium , zinc, selenium recycling - the main glutathione methylation minerals.

 

[YuraCZ]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

http://www.vitaminstuff.com/amino-acid-serine.html

wow cool web thx.. Btw I'm curious which B vitamins you take in supps and how much. You always talking only about p5p, but for example without B2 is p5p almost useless right?

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

First trial is positive, message from a member

"Man it's hard to believe this actually works but I must say I definitely feel better. I have only been doing the phospholipid/magnesium exchange for a couple of days so it may be premature to call you a genius but what the hell. When I first took it I felt immediately drowsy. I hurt my back so I didn't sleep too well but can tell I would have slept great otherwise. My energy the next day was great. I felt like I believe a non hypothyroid person. Good mood....possibly a little jittery but I think that may be due to improper diet. I hope it wasn't stress hormones. I don't think it was. Could you give me any tips on the diet. I got the lean beef down but are you mostly eating non-starchy vegs such as leafy greens etc? Any thanks man I'm gonna continue to give this a whirl."

 

[YuraCZ]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

.

I think this is also part of my problém
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topi ... -and-evil/

Proper balance of amino acids, vitamins etc.. When I look back. I had always bad diet as a child. Processed garbage full of vegetable oils, flour and zero nutrients. Then around 20 yo I started with bodybuilding and next 7 years I was eating mainly lean meat up to 1kg per day, whey protein powders, rice, little vegetables. My body had no idea what is for example retinol, magnesium, and other important nutrients for proper methylation.. So eat just alot of lean muscle meat is not ideal I think.. Now I will eating chicken or turkey liver almost every day for B2, B6, B12, folate. I also wonder which non essential amino acids are needed. I think L glutamine(anti Peat I know), glycine and L carnitine. I can't wait, when I will take L carnitine for the first time. I think I'm in serious deficiency with carnitine...

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

Have you tried the phospholipid exchange yet

 

[YuraCZ]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 114264 Have you tried the phospholipid exchange yet

Just tbsp of hemp oil and tbsp of sunflower oil? Is it important to take it with magnesium(In my case mag bath) and B6 at the same time?

 

[Nicholas]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113812 because ketogenisis may work for you, but not for another. And what works for you now, may not be the answer later.

amen amen amen. i've splattered this idea all over the forum and it's particularly important to remember with this thread. i appreciate kinect's information and believe that a lot of it is physiologically sound and many people could benefit from the perception that his posts could inspire. the only "answer" really is, as Peat says, to "perceive, think, act". That's the only answer there is when it comes to healing. That's the answer for everyone. if some people are offended by the information he is providing, this only highlights the presence of inner authoritarians. if he believes that his current state of perception and way of life and diet is what everyone needs and what he will always need (i don't think he's saying this really) then that would be a step back in perception.

for me, personally, i've taken away great information on coconut oil, magnesium, zinc, calcium, and PUFA.

 

[brandonk]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113812 because ketogenisis may work for you, but not for another. And what works for you now, may not be the answer later.

amen amen amen. i've splattered this idea all over the forum and it's particularly important to remember with this thread. i appreciate kinect's information and believe that a lot of it is physiologically sound and many people could benefit from the perception that his posts could inspire. the only "answer" really is, as Peat says, to "perceive, think, act". That's the only answer there is when it comes to healing. That's the answer for everyone. if some people are offended by the information he is providing, this only highlights the presence of inner authoritarians. if he believes that his current state of perception and way of life and diet is what everyone needs and what he will always need (i don't think he's saying this really) then that would be a step back in perception.

for me, personally, i've taken away great information on coconut oil, magnesium, zinc, calcium, and PUFA.

There is not an authoritarian bone in my body, but he is relying on the website of Dr. Sarah Myhill, who has no good scientific basis for her claims, and is instead relying on her purported authoritarian credentials as a Doctor, even though she's been banned from the practice of medicine for endangering her patients.

Please don't be fooled by someone claiming to be anti-authoritarian into relying on authoritarian sources. It's inimical to the purpose of "perceive, think, act."

Swallowing a tablespoon or more of vegetable seed oil per day, using an intestinal irritant like magnesium chloride, supplementing zinc and avoiding calcium for more than a short period of time -- all of this advice is potentially dangerous, or even fatal depending on your own physical condition.

It's important that be said, as some here have tried to say. There's nothing improper or authoritarian about that.

 

[YuraCZ]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

So diet on lean meat and veggies for proper methylation? I don't know..

 

[Nicholas]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 114273

post 113812 because ketogenisis may work for you, but not for another. And what works for you now, may not be the answer later.

amen amen amen. i've splattered this idea all over the forum and it's particularly important to remember with this thread. i appreciate kinect's information and believe that a lot of it is physiologically sound and many people could benefit from the perception that his posts could inspire. the only "answer" really is, as Peat says, to "perceive, think, act". That's the only answer there is when it comes to healing. That's the answer for everyone. if some people are offended by the information he is providing, this only highlights the presence of inner authoritarians. if he believes that his current state of perception and way of life and diet is what everyone needs and what he will always need (i don't think he's saying this really) then that would be a step back in perception.

for me, personally, i've taken away great information on coconut oil, magnesium, zinc, calcium, and PUFA.

There is not an authoritarian bone in my body, but he is relying on the website of Dr. Sarah Myhill, who has no good scientific basis for her claims, and is instead relying on her purported authoritarian credentials as a Doctor, even though she's been banned from the practice of medicine for endangering her patients.

Please don't be fooled by someone claiming to be anti-authoritarian into relying on authoritarian sources. It's inimical to the purpose of "perceive, think, act."

Swallowing a tablespoon or more of vegetable seed oil per day, using an intestinal irritant like magnesium chloride, supplementing zinc and avoiding calcium for more than a short period of time -- all of this advice is potentially dangerous, or even fatal depending on your own physical condition.

It's important that be said, as some here have tried to say. There's nothing improper or authoritarian about that.

I didn't say that disagreeing with the information is holding onto inner authoritarians, i said that getting offended by the information is. Perhaps the information is more useful than the dietary/supplemental prescriptions which have come out of this thread. No, i would never supplement PUFA oils. But i do think, and have thought for a long time like some others here, that PUFA in foods is not really so big a deal. In fact, i believe at this point that PUFA in foods is important at a certain level. I only know this because of cravings and noticing different things in my body. Supplementing zinc, unless on a specific therapy for a specific disease, seems risky. But....hello.....the oyster industry depends on Danny Roddy and raypeatforum.com. The absence of magnesium in the Peat diet protocol that was invented has always been something i've noticed like others, too. There are always counter-arguments to support the Peat diet protocol....but that is all they are is counter-arguments. I don't crave vegetables, unlike kinectiz, but i do crave a few of them.....when i started eating collards a month or so ago i noticed improvements. For a long time, i have known that something was off about dairy (calcium) in the context of my diet....and didn't know why.....still don't.....but this thread helps me to see possible connections. A low magnesium diet with the Peat diet protocol of milk consumption in the body context of people with low metabolisms does seem like a big oversight from Danny Roddy. I'm not saying any of this to suggest that i am against anybody's protocol, just that what this thread offers is not really so controvercial.

 

[zooma]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

If no one here questioned the merit of swallowing spoons of vegetable oil daily, you would wonder if they had ever looked at Ray's work.