Why You Stay Slimmer More Easily With Olive Oil Than With Saturated Fats

[berk]

@CLASH @Auslander
So what i understand is:
You both have troubles with gaining muscle and both dont eat starch?
Clash follows a moderate carb, moderate sugar, moderate protein diet
And Auslander a high sugar low fat diet, moderate protein?

So looks like missing starch (or high amount glucose) is the biggest culprit for gaining muscle.

 

[berk]

The only issue with the diet is my inability to put on much weight. I get stronger but I still stay at a thin 175-180 at 6'2".

like i said already in a pm to you (that you haven't answered yet, so not sure you already read it)
if your strength increase on hypertrophy rep range then there is always muscle growth, but its always slow if you dont use steriods)
Also depends on your genes. Amount of myostatin you have, ecto/meso/endo bodytype, etc etc.

You did only body-weight exercises?

 

[Auslander]

@CLASH @Auslander
So what i understand is:
You both have troubles with gaining muscle and both dont eat starch?
Clash follows a moderate carb, moderate sugar, moderate protein diet
And Auslander a high sugar low fat diet, moderate protein?

So looks like missing starch (or high amount glucose) is the biggest culprit for gaining muscle.

Heh, thats about right :)

However, i sure did try starches on the Peat regiment, mostly rice. And I surely did gain weight, just not the kind I'm after. I did a two week meat + rice extravaganza while on tropical holidays. There was no dairy. I balooned up to a record weight, all fat.

 

[berk]

Heh, thats about right :)

However, i sure did try starches on the Peat regiment, mostly rice. And I surely did gain weight, just not the kind I'm after. I did a two week meat + rice extravaganza while on tropical holidays. There was no dairy. I balooned up to a record weight, all fat.

and fat loss? do you have trouble burning fat?

 

[Auslander]

and fat loss? do you have trouble burning fat?

No, ive lost the fat easily and sustainably by doing mono meals.

 

[CLASH]

@CLASH @Auslander
So what i understand is:
You both have troubles with gaining muscle and both dont eat starch?
Clash follows a moderate carb, moderate sugar, moderate protein diet
And Auslander a high sugar low fat diet, moderate protein?

So looks like missing starch (or high amount glucose) is the biggest culprit for gaining muscle.

like i said already in a pm to you (that you haven't answered yet, so not sure you already read it)
if your strength increase on hypertrophy rep range then there is always muscle growth, but its always slow if you dont use steriods)
Also depends on your genes. Amount of myostatin you have, ecto/meso/endo bodytype, etc etc.

You did only body-weight exercises?

The issue is that starch doesn't make me feel very well. In the long run it lowers my resting temps, effects my sleep, and changes my bowel patterns. I would say despite not having the starch I'm relatively muscular at 6'2" 10% body fat or lower and decently strong. I do lift weights but I avoid alot of the traditional lifts because I think they cause issues from a movement perspective. I dont think directly loading the spine with 100's of lbs of weight is a good idea (I know this from personal experience when I was interested in power lifting lol). I think barbell benching is a stressor on the shoulder joint and compromises posture and breathing mechanics over time. I also don't know anyone who picks something up off the floor using traditional deadlift mechanics. Considering the principle of specific adaptation to imposed demands, these exercises seem to be poor proxies for performance. So I modify the movements and play around with the patterns with traditional bodybuilding principles in mind in conjunction with understanding the myofascial lines, functional patterns interpretation of the lines, and some basic metabolic concepts that I adapted from Peat/ research. The thing is, unless I'm working with someone in person (I currently work as a personal trainer lol) I tend to stick to more basic prescriptions because I can't show them the exercises in person.

I just started lifting heavy like this again after taking a few months off to focus on Muay thai. Now that I quit nursing and moved to personal training I have to look the part lol. I've been lifting heavier for about 3 weeks now and I'm getting stronger. We will see how long it takes me to get up to 190lbs. I've been all the way up to 220lbs but that was with starch or dairy and I was also on the fatter side.

I haven't gotten to your PM because I'm semi-swamped in PM's lol. I try to get to everyone but a lot of people write a lot of info so it takes time to respond to everything, respond to things on threads, create programs and work with my clients in real life and still go about all my daily activities. Also, sometimes I don't get emails for all my notifications from the forum. I did see your message tho and I will get to it.

 

[berk]

I haven't gotten to your PM because I'm semi-swamped in PM's lol. I try to get to everyone but a lot of people write a lot of info so it takes time to respond to everything, respond to things on threads, create programs and work with my clients in real life and still go about all my daily activities. Also, sometimes I don't get emails for all my notifications from the forum. I did see your message tho and I will get to it.

its ok, take your time, i didn't now that a lot of people send you emails. ;-) just take your time. no worries.
So now you are a personal trainer, you have a website?

 

[CLASH]

I have gained a ton of weight since finding RP. Before this I followed a mostly vegetarian diet for 20 years with occasional fish, then mostly Paleo & AIP for a few months here & there. I was so happy to find RP & be done with super restrictive diets. As much as I found that I really love dairy I think I need to reduce/eliminate it as much as possible to see if I can get the scale to go back down but I absolutely enjoy my daily coffee and don't want to give that up. I tried replacing the milk with cacao butter but it kind of ruined coffee for me. If I gave up milk & cheese but kept either half & half or cream for coffee do you think that would be ok?

I doubt a little cream in the coffee will make or break you, although to be fair I dont have much experience using cream, I'm more of a butter guy and I dont drink much coffee. How much do you plan on using?

 

[taralynne]

I doubt a little cream in the coffee will make or break you, although to be fair I dont have much experience using cream, I'm more of a butter guy and I dont drink much coffee. How much do you plan on using?

I have been using 1/4 cup of half & half per day in coffee and am still using butter for other things. It has only been a few days since I gave up all the other dairy I was eating.

 

[Hans]

I also don't know anyone who picks something up off the floor using traditional deadlift mechanics.

Yes traditional deadlift is not normal but I do think that a sumo style deadlift is more normal. If you have to pick up something heavy, how do you do it? Sort of like a sumo deadlift right? And if the objects are next to you, like heavy shopping bags, you pick it up a little like a trap bar deadlift. But I do think that hinging a lot at the knees to pick something up is more normal than hinging mostly at the hips, as that is how most people hurt their backs.

And heavy back squats is also not normal, agreed. Front squats and especially goblin squats are probably much more normal and natural.
And lastly, heavy bench can be bad for the shoulders. DBs are much easier and safer. I'm currently doing weighted pushups and it feels very good.

 

[RWilly]

Heh, thats about right :)

However, i sure did try starches on the Peat regiment, mostly rice. And I surely did gain weight, just not the kind I'm after. I did a two week meat + rice extravaganza while on tropical holidays. There was no dairy. I balooned up to a record weight, all fat.

That's interesting. Out of curiosity, did you eat your meals in an air conditioned environment and did you spend most of the day in the heat outside?

 

[Waremu]

Yes traditional deadlift is not normal but I do think that a sumo style deadlift is more normal. If you have to pick up something heavy, how do you do it? Sort of like a sumo deadlift right? And if the objects are next to you, like heavy shopping bags, you pick it up a little like a trap bar deadlift. But I do think that hinging a lot at the knees to pick something up is more normal than hinging mostly at the hips, as that is how most people hurt their backs.

And heavy back squats is also not normal, agreed. Front squats and especially goblin squats are probably much more normal and natural.
And lastly, heavy bench can be bad for the shoulders. DBs are much easier and safer. I'm currently doing weighted pushups and it feels very good.

I think using a trap bar for squat and deadlift is far better than the normal ones. Much more natural form. Unfortunately, powerlifting has become an ego-centric religion for many within the industry who won't ever be deterred from doing the "main lifts." And many think it's a blow to their ego to use a trap bar (though it seems to slowly becoming somewhat popular again). It's almost like a religious faith they have in those main lifts and despite any science that may come out suggesting they're not natural or good to do in the long term, they ignore it, despite the large number of injuries they end up getting, as a result. Dogmatism matters to them. And when you try to explain to them that they're not very natural movements and that they're the reason for their injuries, they usually resort to quoting silly studies or statistics, which were usually not done right, to say that powerlifters don't get that many injuries, and that people who get the injuries just 'did the exercise wrong', which is just a load of BS, for a few reasons. For example, everyone has a different frame/structure/muscles and this greatly impacts ones ability to do such exercises 'safely.' For example, some people of a certain height range and spine-structure are not very good candidates for squatting with heavy load, all the way down, and, over the long term, will likely increase their risk of injury squatting. But most serious powerlifters will hold to their 'big three' religion and ignore that. And of course, coming from a powerlifter background, almost every powerlifter I knew or trained with or trained, at some point, took 1-2 fairly serious injuries within their 'career'. And I am not at all convinced they ever made it back to full recovery. So if the statistics they quote on injuries were true, they wouldn't be more common in my and many other experiences. But many of those numbers are false, in my opinion, because I think many powerlifters lie when they are asked about their inquires or how many they have, so they do not make the sport look bad or look like they didn't know what they were doing as 'professional lifters.' Even if one goes on YouTube and look at the competitive powerlifter channels, a large number of them, if not the vast majority of them, all seemed to have sustained at least 1, maybe 2, serious injuries at some point -- usually the back region, shoulder, or knees/elbows. And many whom I have followed over the years, as they get older, they just look beat down and have a harder time getting through their workouts. Many have serious joint problems. I think the main problem with those lifts is that they tend to overwork your joints relative to your muscles. I trained for many years lifting, had the forms down right, trained with professionals, and it never stopped me from having injuries. I currently cannot do flat bench because I came close to blowing out part of my shoulder. I do incline bench and it is much better for my shoulder,.. more natural. A floor press I also do, which isn't as bad. I also moved from doing traditional deadlifts to using trap bar deadlifts, and the same for squats. My strength has not suffered and my joints feel so much better.

 

[Hans]

I think using a trap bar for squat and deadlift is far better than the normal ones. Much more natural form. Unfortunately, powerlifting has become an ego-centric religion for many within the industry who won't ever be deterred from doing the "main lifts." And many think it's a blow to their ego to use a trap bar (though it seems to slowly becoming somewhat popular again). It's almost like a religious faith they have in those main lifts and despite any science that may come out suggesting they're not natural or good to do in the long term, they ignore it, despite the large number of injuries they end up getting, as a result. Dogmatism matters to them. And when you try to explain to them that they're not very natural movements and that they're the reason for their injuries, they usually resort to quoting silly studies or statistics, which were usually not done right, to say that powerlifters don't get that many injuries, and that people who get the injuries just 'did the exercise wrong', which is just a load of BS, for a few reasons. For example, everyone has a different frame/structure/muscles and this greatly impacts ones ability to do such exercises 'safely.' For example, some people of a certain height range and spine-structure are not very good candidates for squatting with heavy load, all the way down, and, over the long term, will likely increase their risk of injury squatting. But most serious powerlifters will hold to their 'big three' religion and ignore that. And of course, coming from a powerlifter background, almost every powerlifter I knew or trained with or trained, at some point, took 1-2 fairly serious injuries within their 'career'. And I am not at all convinced they ever made it back to full recovery. So if the statistics they quote on injuries were true, they wouldn't be more common in my and many other experiences. But many of those numbers are false, in my opinion, because I think many powerlifters lie when they are asked about their inquires or how many they have, so they do not make the sport look bad or look like they didn't know what they were doing as 'professional lifters.' Even if one goes on YouTube and look at the competitive powerlifter channels, a large number of them, if not the vast majority of them, all seemed to have sustained at least 1, maybe 2, serious injuries at some point -- usually the back region, shoulder, or knees/elbows. And many whom I have followed over the years, as they get older, they just look beat down and have a harder time getting through their workouts. Many have serious joint problems. I think the main problem with those lifts is that they tend to overwork your joints relative to your muscles. I trained for many years lifting, had the forms down right, trained with professionals, and it never stopped me from having injuries. I currently cannot do flat bench because I came close to blowing out part of my shoulder. I do incline bench and it is much better for my shoulder,.. more natural. A floor press I also do, which isn't as bad. I also moved from doing traditional deadlifts to using trap bar deadlifts, and the same for squats. My strength has not suffered and my joints feel so much better.

Yes, well said.
People are way too attached to the main lifts and it's almost as if the mentality is: "If you don't do them you're not a real man."
And it's not only joints, but also their general health. They all have bulging guts most likely due to all the strain affecting endotoxin absorption. Some look better than others but still. If you're not going to be a competitive powerlifter, there is no need to do those lifts at all, and IMO, their not the best for hypertrophy either.

 

[Auslander]

That's interesting. Out of curiosity, did you eat your meals in an air conditioned environment and did you spend most of the day in the heat outside?

Zero AC as I hate it, and regular gym workouts and planks between sunbathing.

 

[CLASH]

Yes traditional deadlift is not normal but I do think that a sumo style deadlift is more normal. If you have to pick up something heavy, how do you do it? Sort of like a sumo deadlift right? And if the objects are next to you, like heavy shopping bags, you pick it up a little like a trap bar deadlift. But I do think that hinging a lot at the knees to pick something up is more normal than hinging mostly at the hips, as that is how most people hurt their backs.

And heavy back squats is also not normal, agreed. Front squats and especially goblin squats are probably much more normal and natural.
And lastly, heavy bench can be bad for the shoulders. DBs are much easier and safer. I'm currently doing weighted pushups and it feels very good.

For deadlifts I use a hex bar or I do a single arm staggered stance dumbbell deadlift. If I was to pick something up off the floor, both of these are the mechanics I would typically use. Thats why I chose them.

As @Waremu hit on, my anthropometrics for squatting are trash. I have a long torso, monkey arms (I'm 6'2" but I have like a 6'6 wing span lol), and long legs. My shin bones, thigh bones and torso are all about the same length (I actually measured when I was power lifting because I was having trouble with my squat) and my dorsiflexion isn't good enough to compensate, so when I squat with load on my back or collar bones I have to lean very far forward and I wind up stabilizing the weight on my spinal erectors and glutes. So I stay away from squatting, both front and back, because it destroys my lower back and hip joints. Rather I use something called a pit shark. Its essentially a belt squat with the weight suspended directly below you via a lever system. I can do far more weight on here (today I did 6 plates on either side, 12 plates total, for 3 sets of 6 reps [strength week]) because my spine isn't the limiting factor.

As for Benching, I dont do any benching exercises lying flat. I do standing landmine presses, standing unilateral cable presses and flys, and standing sled presses. The sled presses are unique because:
1) they are a purely concentric exercise
2) if you were to use your pecs in real life it would would either be to push something, such as in a sled press or would be to throw something. The way pecs are used in a bench press makes no sense in real life, if looking at the principle of adaptation to imposed demands; atleast in my opinion.

All of the pressing exercises above attempt to use the shoulder joint how it would be used in real life. The pec is along the same fascial sheath as the rectus abdominis and adductor, it is meant to bring the arm across the body with a rotation of that same shoulder to the opposite hip. Laying down flat on a bench and pressing with both arms completely distorts this pattern. I think this is why we see bodybuilders walking around with extremely internally rotated humerus' with protracted scapulas. Thier shoulders are effectively useless for doing anything in real life, in my opinion. They can't throw a punch, cant throw a ball, cant reach overhead, cant fully push in front of them and probably have issues with putting a shirt on. Plus the breathing mechanics get distorted, in my opinion, with the rib cage collapsed from the tight pecs, lats, serratus pulling the humerus and scapula forward. This is in conjunction with tight upper abdominals from all the crunches and ab exercises and tight hip flexors from the upper/ lower cross movment patterns they develop. Overall the I think a lot of what the generic bodybuilding/ powerlifting/ fitness industries promote is antithetical to good health and human function in general.

 

[Hans]

As for Benching, I dont do any benching exercises lying flat. I do standing landmine presses, standing unilateral cable presses and flys, and standing sled presses. The sled presses are unique because:
1) they are a purely concentric exercise
2) if you were to use your pecs in real life it would would either be to push something, such as in a sled press or would be to throw something. The way pecs are used in a bench press makes no sense in real life, if looking at the principle of adaptation to imposed demands; atleast in my opinion.

Push-ups are very natural (although you won't do they heavy in a natural situation) and if you were to wrestle, pushing someone away simulates a chest press action. Besides, a good chest looks great. A flat/small chest just looks bad if the rest of your muscles are developed. But that's just my opinion.

As a side note, I have the same issue with back squats, but luckily front squats don't target my lower back that much at all. Safety bar squats are also much more natural IMO. It's like carrying someone on your back.

And as another side note, I still do conventional deadlifts else I turn the trap bar deadlift into a very quad dominant lift, almost like a squat.

 

[schultz]

Does it matter that powerlifting movements are not a "natural" way of lifting something? If they build the muscle + strength without injury then there will be carryover to other movement patterns. It's not like a guy who can deadlift 600lbs isn't going to be able to move a dresser or something "Aww crap, I didn't train this lift in the gym..."

So looks like missing starch (or high amount glucose) is the biggest culprit for gaining muscle.

LEGS...I don’t do legs, and I won’t.

Training legs might help.

A flat/small chest just looks bad if the rest of your muscles are developed. But that's just my opinion.

Oh I don't mind it. I kind of like it actually, like Eugene Sandow.

 

[CLASH]

Push-ups are very natural (although you won't do they heavy in a natural situation) and if you were to wrestle, pushing someone away simulates a chest press action. Besides, a good chest looks great. A flat/small chest just looks bad if the rest of your muscles are developed. But that's just my opinion.

As a side note, I have the same issue with back squats, but luckily front squats don't target my lower back that much at all. Safety bar squats are also much more natural IMO. It's like carrying someone on your back.

And as another side note, I still do conventional deadlifts else I turn the trap bar deadlift into a very quad dominant lift, almost like a squat.

I haven't really done weighted push ups, so I couldn't say anything about them. I have considered them tho. What is your source of added weight and how are you loading it on yourself? I agree on the small chest aspect for sure. I do think vanity is important, thats why I have cable exercises in there for my chest lol.

Luckily for me, because of my proportions, even the trap bar deadlift hits my posterior chain decently. It does have more quad activation than conventional.

 

[CLASH]

Does it matter that powerlifting movements are not a "natural" way of lifting something? If they build the muscle + strength without injury then there will be carryover to other movement patterns. It's not like a guy who can deadlift 600lbs isn't going to be able to move a dresser or something "Aww crap, I didn't train this lift in the gym..."





Training legs might help.



Oh I don't mind it. I kind of like it actually, like Eugene Sandow.

If they carryover without injury than it shouldn't be too bad but in my experience they actually made my ability to move worse. They made me stiff in general. With the exercise principle of specific adaptation to imposed demands, I try to stick with exercises that get close to mimicking normal movement patterns and that don't force/ encourage problematic postures.

 

[schultz]

If they carryover without injury than it shouldn't be too bad but in my experience they actually made my ability to move worse. They made me stiff in general. With the exercise principle of specific adaptation to imposed demands, I try to stick with exercises that get close to mimicking normal movement patterns and that don't force/ encourage problematic postures.

That seems reasonable. Nothing wrong with mimicking natural movements and it seems like a sensible approach.

When you say it made you stiff, do you mean less flexible or just a general feeling of stiffness?