Why You Stay Slimmer More Easily With Olive Oil Than With Saturated Fats

Hans

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What is your source of added weight and how are you loading it on yourself?
I put a weight belt around my back, just under my pits, and then chain up some weights and do push-ups. I use push-ups between chairs, but you can use any other high object as well.
 

CLASH

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That seems reasonable. Nothing wrong with mimicking natural movements and it seems like a sensible approach.

When you say it made you stiff, do you mean less flexible or just a general feeling of stiffness?

It caused my muscles to hold a certain pattern of tightness that inhibited my athletic ability to some extent by closing dow my mobility. The squat tightened up my adductors, quads, and my spinal erectors. The bench closed down my shoulder girlder and thoracic spine. The deadlift wasn't too bad overall lol. Just the awkwardness of having to worry about the bar path with my shins/ knees, and my shoulder position with a double overhand grip.

I put a weight belt around my back, just under my pits, and then chain up some weights and do push-ups. I use push-ups between chairs, but you can use any other high object as well.

I may try this. My only gripe is that in normal movement the weight transfer is through the feet up to the chest and arms, hence while I like the sled press. The push up changes this dynamic. Although it does allow free movement of the scapula compared to the bench and it allows for good pec activation whereas standing can be difficult.
 
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I think the arguments on these sort of subjects might largely boil down to confusion in biochemistry and etc. The very same flawed premises that can stand as an "understanding" of individual variety or variations among people is sold with the false label of individuality as an inherent trait vs. individuality more as a different expression of the same "blueprint." People argue over what diet "can't work" or why this makes me fat or this doesn't or etc. and thinly veil personal experience as a form of voodoo characterization of their dietary or bodily mechanisms, which leads others to give way to unfair or unorthodox visualizations of the human organism as a system of immeasurable mystery. Just like you can say that gravity is a "law" the idea is that the human sort of may function biochemically within the confines of said "laws" too -- only differences could be the expression of functions but not likely the blackboard itself, all things considered. The great thing is that while you can say we are "confined" to laws the same varying expressions within "them" are possibly the things that fulfill our abilities to grow, change, adapt, "improve," etc. We are not our genes anymore than our genes are us -- it likely works both ways.

Interestingly I think different "race" or "ethnic groups" might fall for this same understanding to, both to the example of observing said "minority" from a "majority" and the "minority" observing said "majority" in the case of social issues. For example one could say their inherent race might be the problem the world has with them (feeling too sorry or angry), as if their race makes them an entirely different set of building blocks or fundamentals between human beings when it doesn't. Black or White or etc. all bleed -- there is no technical difference under the hood that makes one a different "being" in this regard that necessites extreme pity or demand for equality under the guise of only self-fulfillment and not rectifying actual issues, i.e. I am a "minority" so I deserve more because being one makes me lesser inherently. Sure there are issues and I am not saying there aren't problems of racism and such, but sometimes rationalizations regarding "individuality" easily become irrational in the grand scheme of things when people use it to highly differentiate, separate, and view others as not alike or equal enough to them which makes them "different beings" deeply in a possibly unfounded way (think: "genetic superiority/inferiority" because I am/am not White, can eat dairy, or other vague assumptions).

Not using the word law to mean no variability or possibility to change on different levels, but more so to gauge a more rational understanding of bodily functions and traits across different people. There can be this diet or that food or etc. that not everyone likes or can digest well, but that is more above a lower-level angle of internal processes and mechanisms which we all are probably bound by. For example, if you get cut you will probably bleed -- same with every other human within reason of testing. Now if you lightly scratch me and I do not bleed that does not mean I am inherently "independent" or "unique" by way of my underlying physiology or such, much like John Doe not getting fat on high carbs/fat isn't probably inherently different in his biological mechanisms (other than expression) than Jane Doe who is diabetic and heavily obese while trying the same thing.

People might be too quick to paint higher level experiences or individual expressions as entirely different inherent mechanisms between actual individuals (consider the way some people think of their genes as what inherently determines their entire being top to bottom, like size, personality, ability to drink a cup of milk, able to study the finals, their IQ, anger tendency, allergies, fertility, how many selfies you post on Instagram/Snapchat a week, etc.).
 

Indicatrice

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It caused my muscles to hold a certain pattern of tightness that inhibited my athletic ability to some extent by closing dow my mobility. The squat tightened up my adductors, quads, and my spinal erectors. The bench closed down my shoulder girlder and thoracic spine. The deadlift wasn't too bad overall lol. Just the awkwardness of having to worry about the bar path with my shins/ knees, and my shoulder position with a double overhand grip.



I may try this. My only gripe is that in normal movement the weight transfer is through the feet up to the chest and arms, hence while I like the sled press. The push up changes this dynamic. Although it does allow free movement of the scapula compared to the bench and it allows for good pec activation whereas standing can be difficult.

In my case, I do enjoy squatting and bench pressing for example, even if they may imply a higher risk of injury. I am starting yoga too to increase my overall mobility, if you think about it every exercise is artificial, otherwise it wouldn't be called that. Even in strongman you mimic motions that you'd perform in a natural setting, yet you use perfectly symmetrical weights which are comfortable to grip, etc.
 

schultz

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In my case, I do enjoy squatting and bench pressing for example, even if they may imply a higher risk of injury. I am starting yoga too to increase my overall mobility, if you think about it every exercise is artificial, otherwise it wouldn't be called that. Even in strongman you mimic motions that you'd perform in a natural setting, yet you use perfectly symmetrical weights which are comfortable to grip, etc.

Yes I enjoy them too. I am not worried about injury as I take 30 minute + rests in between sets, and I am not worried about mobility as I am pretty flexible for a guy (can do side splits for example). Although CLASH was saying he thought the movement patterns were messing with his movement patterns in athletics generally (he seems to not be talking about flexibility, although there may be some crossover). It sort of seems specific to him and his goals. Since I've started working out again (last time I consistently worked out was over 8 years ago and I just started back up consistently about 5 or 6 months ago) I feel more mobile and athletic to be honest. Everyday tasks are easier. Carrying bales of hay, or buckets of water to the animals is effortless. I noticed I can lift drywall (which comes as two sheets together) with one hand. And carrying sheet goods in general (MDF, etc) is easier. I am feeling good about lifting again and want to see if I can achieve certain strength goals, which is why I want to do the 4 big lifts (I'm including shoulder press). I guess I just want to see what being consistent in the gym can get me strength wise. I've never trained for over a year straight in my life and I wanna see what I can get my lifts to. I know a lot more about nutrition and health now which I think can help my progress. For example, I've noticed that muscle aches tend to disappear if I take enough T3. Red light, sugar, milk, aspirin are all helpful and things I didn't do when I last was lifting. Keeping cortisol as low as possible.

Oh and I just realized, I have 2 older brothers and I want to compete with them... Lol, maybe that's the reason I want to do those lifts. There's me trying to justify.
 

CLASH

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In my case, I do enjoy squatting and bench pressing for example, even if they may imply a higher risk of injury. I am starting yoga too to increase my overall mobility, if you think about it every exercise is artificial, otherwise it wouldn't be called that. Even in strongman you mimic motions that you'd perform in a natural setting, yet you use perfectly symmetrical weights which are comfortable to grip, etc.

The question is the degree of artificiality, especially in light of the principle of specific adaptation to imposed demands. I dont think it is either artificial or not, I think its a spectrum of closer to reality vs removed from reality. Also depends on the individuals goals to some extent.

Yes I enjoy them too. I am not worried about injury as I take 30 minute + rests in between sets, and I am not worried about mobility as I am pretty flexible for a guy (can do side splits for example). Although CLASH was saying he thought the movement patterns were messing with his movement patterns in athletics generally (he seems to not be talking about flexibility, although there may be some crossover). It sort of seems specific to him and his goals. Since I've started working out again (last time I consistently worked out was over 8 years ago and I just started back up consistently about 5 or 6 months ago) I feel more mobile and athletic to be honest. Everyday tasks are easier. Carrying bales of hay, or buckets of water to the animals is effortless. I noticed I can lift drywall (which comes as two sheets together) with one hand. And carrying sheet goods in general (MDF, etc) is easier. I am feeling good about lifting again and want to see if I can achieve certain strength goals, which is why I want to do the 4 big lifts (I'm including shoulder press). I guess I just want to see what being consistent in the gym can get me strength wise. I've never trained for over a year straight in my life and I wanna see what I can get my lifts to. I know a lot more about nutrition and health now which I think can help my progress. For example, I've noticed that muscle aches tend to disappear if I take enough T3. Red light, sugar, milk, aspirin are all helpful and things I didn't do when I last was lifting. Keeping cortisol as low as possible.

Oh and I just realized, I have 2 older brothers and I want to compete with them... Lol, maybe that's the reason I want to do those lifts. There's me trying to justify.

I think lifting, especially with proper form and mobility is, in general, better than being sedentary. It depends on the goals, and individual contexts but modifications can be made to develop strength while limiting the negative effects. Again, as I said above, its not a question of either/ or, its a spectrum depending in multiple factors.
 

shine

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Vinny

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@CLASH
What happened with Auslander? Is there a thread?
 

CLASH

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@Vinny
See the attached photo.

@shine
I have been constantly playing with fat sources, because it seems to make the most difference for me. As of my current experience:

-coconut oil: It feels much less androgenic than the animal fats, less satiating, seems to burn more like sugar yet it seems to make me cold and it also can irritate my intestines

-Butter: it feels great initially and tastes amazing. However, overtime it gives me acne, lowers my libido and causes me to lose my hair. I dont think its neccessarily the fatty acids in butter, I think its the hormone. The acne and hairloss is repeatable with my close friends and family who follow the principles of diet that I follow. When I stop butter my hair stops shedding altogether and seems to slowly grow back overtime.

Tallow: Tallow suits me the best. It feels the most androgenic, and doesn't induce acne ir hairloss. The only issue with tallow is how hard some tallows are. The tallows that have more stearic acid seem to be much harder and have higher melting points. Bison tallow is the worst with this in my experience. Sometimes the melting point is to high and it actually stays solid at my body temp. This directly irritates my intestines. Tallow also doesn't taste as good as butter.

Macadamia nut oil: This oil actually made me gain a little weight, whereas with the other fats I easily stay sub 10% bodyfat year round. It tastes pretty good if you get a good quality oil, poor quality oils are rancid. The downsides are it cant be cooked with, and it doesnt feel as androgenic as beef tallow.

Lard: never tried, don't trust it. I dont eat pig products at all anyway.

Cocoa butter: only used it on my skin. Expensive to cook with.


As far as the high DHT/ low estrogen state, I can easily be pushed into it by taking fat solubles, aspirin, tribulus or using any slightly aromatase inhibiting compound on top of my current diet. The state is high focus and determination, with anhedonia as you mention. The feeling is a need to complete things and get them done, but I dont feel any joy from doing them; I just do it. Also, my emotions and empathy become a bit dampened i.e. I just care about what my goals are and completing them. Overall I like the state, the problem is that I often get very dry joints that crack, I get very lean, my sympathetic nervous system activity ramps up and I tend to have increased sweating particularly from the apocrine glands i.e. hormonal sweat (armpit, groin).
 

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ursidae

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I’ll share my experience as someone who has a very hard time gaining weight. Saturated fat makes me extremely skinny. Coconut is the worst. I ate over half a kilo of coconut oil in four weeks and continued to lose weight. Beef/bison fat is also bad for weight gain but at least it doesn’t make me lose .
The only thing that can make me gain a bit of weight is a lot of PUFA (nuts) consumed alongside copious amounts starch. MUFA from olive oil and avocado+starch also works for weight gain but even larger qualities are needed. And I believe the weight gain it produced was purely water weight/inflammation/bloating.
 
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baccheion

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I’ll share my experience as someone who has a very hard time gaining weight. Saturated fat makes me extremely skinny. Coconut is the worst. I ate over half a kilo of coconut oil in four weeks and continued to lose weight. Beef/bison fat is also bad for weight gain but at least it doesn’t make me lose .
The only thing that can make me gain a bit of weight is a lot of PUFA (nuts) consumed alongside copious amounts starch. MUFA from olive oil and avocado+starch also works for weight gain but even larger qualities are needed. And I believe the weight gain it produced was purely water weight/inflammation/bloating.
Is this due to thyroid or stress? Do you heat up? Have you tried the (chocolate) milk diet (6+ quarts whole milk per day, with a 36-hour fast before starting to lower gut bacteria)?
 
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ursidae

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Is this due to thyroid or stress? Do you heat up? Have you tried the (chocolate) milk diet (6+ quarts whole milk per day, with a 36-hour fast before starting to lower gut bacteria)?
I have no idea. I'm hypothyroid. I get hot flashes in the evening and I get hot when my blood sugar gets to 8.5. Doctors are at a loss and suspect malabsorbtion, getting an endoscopy soon. But those blood sugar spikes tell me carbs are being absorbed. I was foolish enough to drink a glass of milk the other day and have an extremely sore cyst that makes it painful to talk so no I cant do anything that involves milk. Using camphosal to lower gut bacteria at the moment
 

baccheion

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I have no idea. I'm hypothyroid. I get hot flashes in the evening and I get hot when my blood sugar gets to 8.5. Doctors are at a loss and suspect malabsorbtion, getting an endoscopy soon. But those blood sugar spikes tell me carbs are being absorbed. I was foolish enough to drink a glass of milk the other day and have an extremely sore cyst that makes it painful to talk so no I cant do anything that involves milk. Using camphosal to lower gut bacteria at the moment
What have you tried? Ever looked into iodine protocol? Is it autoimmune, hashimoto's for example?
 

Whichway?

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Interesting discussion about weightlifting and exercise capability. I realize it’s off topic so I can take it to a new thread if the OP wants, but I was wondering whether kettlebell exercises were better than powerlifting exercises for general athleticism and movement ability.

I used to be a sprinter and although we did some powerlifting exercises with weights it was never to heavy. Had a few really big gym guys that would come and sprint with us from time to time and they could never move very well even over 50-60m sprints.
 

ursidae

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What have you tried? Ever looked into iodine protocol? Is it autoimmune, hashimoto's for example?
Trying to treat SIBO right now. I probably need to do the protocol because of fluoride consumption in the past. There was a point when my face would break out in rashes whenever I had anything with higher iodine content. Was tested for hashimoto’s, antibodies came out fine
 

AndrogenicJB

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I did not claim that it was anti-androgenic. I claimed that, in my experience, it is less androgenic than the animal fats.

It actually supports my choices perfectly. I'm using oleic acid specifically to mitigate what seems to be too high DHT. Haidut recently posted on his blog studies discussing lipid saturation in relation to saturation of steroid. There has also been previous discussion of requiring non-fully saturated steroids like DHEA in combination with fully saturated steroids like androsterone or DHT to induce muscular anabolism. I've been playing around with intakes of saturated and monounsaturated fats to see thier effects physiologically in this context. Excess amounts of fully saturated fats push me to, what seems like, too high DHT expression. Adding in some monounsaturated fats seem to help moderate those effects to some extent while avoiding "estrogenicity". Playing around with too many things that have purported aromatase inhibiting effects gives me similar symptoms to running, what seems like, too high DHT.

I did not state that I dont use coconut oil because it has a less androgenic effect. I merely added that in as an experiential side note. Another interesting note for this discussion is that coconut oil seems to preserve my hair. If your interested, my main reason for avoiding it is the drying effect it seems to produce in my joints.

As for the questionable nature of the assays, have you seen studies showing contrary effects of the fatty acids in coconut oil on 5AR? In my opinion, just because there are questionable effects of PUFA, doesn't automatically imply that the same effects occur with medium chain saturated fats.
What are your sources of fat? What are the best fat sources for high dht? Thanks
 

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