Vitamin K For Newborns

Discussion in 'Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs' started by makaronai, Oct 19, 2020.

  1. makaronai

    makaronai New Member

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    Hello. I'm 38 weeks pregnant and still undecided on whether I want my baby to be injected with vitamin K at birth. My gut tells me it is better not to intervene and let the baby build his vitamin k levels naturally. However, I personally don't know anyone who opted out and their babies seem to develop normally - though who knows if normal is optimal. Probably not. Only online have I seen people claiming the injection has somehow damaged the baby, caused jaundice, etc. Such assumptions are prevalent on natural living, homeopathy forums which I sometimes read out of curiosity and not necessarily because I find them trustworthy. Still, they made me do some research and question this routine practice.

    Trying to gain a better understanding, I read this little book by a British midwife Sarah Wickham ("Vitamin K and the Newborn"). The fact that this tiny book was all I could find on the topic suggests either it is under researched or nobody really cares about it, meaning there's no obvious problem with the practise. Or?

    So I read the book and was left no less confused. Dr Wickham presents the studies that conclude the effectiveness of the vitamin K injection to prevent VKDB in newborns but at the same time points out why the results could be interpreted in a different way (mostly that inability to produce enough vitamin K and stop internal bleeding was caused by some external factor like a newborn baby not being properly fed or cared and not purely because the injection was not given). On the other hand, although she states why it makes sense why parents choose not to inject vitamin K, there's no real research to prove that. Also, before reading the book, I was leaning towards oral supplementation (my husband is Japanese and as we researched, we found out they give the newborns vitamin K syrup, not the injections there; and it is optional here in the UK too) but it's deemed less effective and possibly damaging to a still undeveloped digestive system of a newborn.

    Now I'm considering either injection or nothing. During my last antenatal appointment, I asked my midwife for advice but she just said that I'm the one to choose and there's still time...Well, not much time anymore! I'm in a way jealous of my parents who brought me and my siblings up in the dark times with no internet and Soviet mentality where you take whatever is given to you and don't question. I asked my mom about injections back then and she said that we were taken away for several injections at birth but she of course had no idea what it was. She sounded very laid back when talking about that.

    So here I am, asking internet strangers and not my own parents for advice! Any parents who had the same dilemma? What was your decision and what made you reach it? Any afterthoughts? Regret? Relief?

    Thank you.
     
  2. Peater

    Peater Member

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    I don't understand why they don't give K to the mother and encourage her to breast-feed
     
  3. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    This.
     
  4. crazypatriot

    crazypatriot New Member

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    Im a lurker, I created an account to respond to this because I just went through this with my daughter.

    The main argument for K injection is all infants are k deficient, and injection is more effcient to address than oral supplement. They say vitamin k doest cross the placenta or appear in breast milk.

    What they dont tell you is this is only true for vitamin K1. Not K2, specifically MK-4 (menatetronone). My wife used K2 MK-4 throughout pregnancy and we decided to use the oral K1 with our newborn.

    I feel like "all babies are deficient in K" is due to the lack of vitamin k2 in the modern diet.

    A hospital provided pediatrician the day after birth was a complete ass, trying to coax me into the injection. I asked him: "do you even know the difference between k1 and k2?" He had no response. They just parrot information, they dont understand basic nutrition. On amazon there is 15mg MK-4 version of K2 by Relentless Improvement. Just take that and it will cross the placenta and also appear in your breast milk. Theres studies on this that can be found.
     
  5. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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  6. Peater

    Peater Member

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    I wish my folks had had even an inkling of Ray Peat's work...or even Paleo, frankly.

    Your new arrival(s) are lucky to have such investigative parents.
     
  7. R J

    R J Member

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    It’s amazing when working professionals don’t keep up with the research and information, compare to laypersons like on health forums like this. One should be interested in their career enough to stay on top of new developments.
     
  8. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Yes this is true.

    I researched this myself with my first child (she's 7 now). I found a study showing that supplementing K2 increased the amount of K in the breast milk.

    Also, you can give the baby some K. We gave it to our children topically, which I feel is the safest way to supplement a baby, as opposed to orally which I feel is slightly riskier (but that would depend on the product and its purity).
     
  9. Recoen

    Recoen Member

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    The vitamin K shot has a black box warning. Delayed cord clamping seems to help with any potential blood clotting issues. Like already suggested you can get liquid forms of K1 and K2. Put one drop of each on your nipple before breastfeeding. You could even put some on their skin.
     
  10. OP
    makaronai

    makaronai New Member

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    Thanks for stepping out of the shadow! (been a long time lurker myself)
    I've heard similar stories to yours but perhaps that paediatrician was just trying to be caring, not an ass? I haven't felt any judgement from my hospital staff (I'm sure they have their opinions though) but who knows what happens after the baby is born and I decide to decline.
    It's interesting that K1 doesn't cross placenta but K2 does. There must be a good reason why K1 is not welcomed there!
    I’ve actually bought Super K by Life Extension (it has both K1 and K2) as well as oral vitamin K1 drops for babies just in case. But then I eat cheeses, nattō and drink green broths regularly which makes me reluctant to take the supplement.
    How old is your daughter, may I ask? How many doses of K1 have you used for her? Did you give it to her after breastfeeding? Was she tolerating it well i.e. no digestive issues? Sorry if that's too nosy! I've read some anecdotal experiences where babies ended up with digestive issues and food intolerances later with no real explanation so oral vitamin K was assumed to be the culprit.

    You mean supplementing K2 can increase K1 in the breast milk? That's promising. Is it what your family did then? Your wife took K2 and children got K1 applied topically? How long and how much did you supplement, if you happen to remember?
     
  11. crazypatriot

    crazypatriot New Member

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    Some hospital staff may be dogmatic and not understanding, but hopefully you don't experience that.

    My daughter is 6 months old now, no notable reactions. I am sure she tolerated it just fine. We used 'Biotics Research Bio-K-Mulsion' brand. Started at 2mg day after birth, and then i want to say either 1 or 2mg every 2 weeks until 8 weeks. We dosed it with breastfeeding, so I believe that helps with digestion.
     
  12. BrianF

    BrianF Member

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    We weren't planning on accepting the vit k injection for our child but after the birth we went along with it, due to them insisting and us being slightly traumatised (the borth went well) and we agreed. There wasnt any need as my parnter supplemented with a basic, A, D3 and K2 supplement throughout. Despite this the child showed no adverse reactions though if you have supplement with vitamin k or you have decent levels then there is no need.

    Supplement with good drops, D3 and K2 for the rest of your pregnancy and then your child will be born with your levels. If you breast feed then the child will continue to enjoy good levels. If you dont then put some drops on your childs skin a few times a week.
     
  13. schultz

    schultz Member

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    I don't exactly remember the paper, but I think it was supplement K2 and it increased K2 in the breast milk. And we put K2 drops on the kids, not K1. I just don't have K1 which is why I used the K2. I can try to find the study if you would like?
     
  14. schultz

    schultz Member

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    I think a lot of the older studies were done with K1 supplementation of the mother and didn't detect an increase in K1 in the milk. Either that or it was converted to K2 and they were not looking for that and merely looking for K1 so thought that vitamin K was low in the breast milk. I do believe if you take K1 it is converted to K2 for the milk.

    The paper below is from the 80's so I guess it takes mainstream a while to catch up.

    [Studies on transfer of vitamin K into human breast milk] - PubMed

    "The concentration rate of MK-4 was higher than that of vitamin K1 and was increased by MK-4 administration. After delivery, the daily concentration of MK-4 in milk was increased from 1.69 ng/ml on the first day to 49.3 ng/ml on the fourth day in the MK-4 group. These results indicate that MK-4 is accumulated and concentrated into breast milk, and continuous MK-4 administration can increase the concentration of vitamin K in milk, preventing idiopathic vitamin K deficient bleeding in infants."
     
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