Does Vitamin K Increase The Need For Dietary Glutamate?

[lvysaur]

I've been using Thorne for a couple of weeks now, with great results. The amount was one drop a day, occasionally 2 drops.

On Monday, March 7, I did 3 drops, followed by 2 drops on Tuesday. I started to see some bad side effects, so I dropped it on Wednesday, March 9 completely.

On Friday night, March 11, I was feeling stressed, and ate a high glutamate meal (noodles with soy sauce). It was calming rather than exciting like glutmate should be, though this might be due simply to the glucose in the noodles.

I ate the same noodles the day after, and noticed clear excitatory symptoms.

I'm thinking that during round 1 of the noodles, I still had an excess of vitamin K in my body, so it "used up" the glutamate. On round 2, I might not have had enough leftover K, since I had stopped the Thorne, so the glutamate was exciting because it wasn't being used properly.

Also: Asians seem to eat very high glutamate foods on a regular basis, and the umami taste (which is dependent on glutamate ions) is central to Japanese, Korean, and Chinese cooking (probably in southeast Asian cooking as well). Asians also have a lot of traits that I associate with vitamin K supplementation.

Examples: Better insulin sensitivity/glucose metabolism, wider jaw, less hair loss, sparser and finer facial hair, straighter head hair, lower secretion rates of lactase, bigger head:body ratio.

All of the above are traits that are common in Asians. All of the above are also things that have been reported by others on vitamin K, or things known by science to be affected by vitamin K (or multiple of these options). I experienced every single trait in this list while on vitamin K.

Another thing I experienced with K was a lighter pigmentation all over my body (hair, eyes, skin, mucous membranes). I think it might be a push in a "neotenous" direction, to some extent, because so many of these traits are childlike.

I should note that vitamin K reduced my lactose digestion rate, but didn't make me lactose intolerant, because I think I was holding food in my stomach for a longer period of time. I'm estimating my lactose digestion rate based on the amount of mucus I get in my throat after drinking milk. Galactose seems to be a mucus-inducing sugar, so strength of phlegm after milk consumption should be indicative of a very high rate of lactase secretion. On vitamin K, I experienced small but noticeable amounts of phlegm. I usually get a lot.

 

[sladerunner69]

no it absolutely does not

 

[milk_lover]

On vitamin K, I experienced small but noticeable amounts of phlegm. I usually get a lot.

I think the forum member Tamader (sorry if I wrote his name wrongly) reported the opposite. I could be mistaken though.

 

[Tarmander]

I think the forum member Tamader (sorry if I wrote his name wrongly) reported the opposite. I could be mistaken though.

Yeah I used to cough up phlegm quite a bit, Kuinone seems to knock it out

 

[FredSonoma]

Not completely relevant to your question, but I have also noticed the same thing with Asian people. I am half asian, and everyone on my mom's side of the family in her age range (50's) has beautiful, large facial bone structures, wide rows of teeth, perfect symmetrical faces, and an ability to eat whatever tey want and never gain weight. They are also all very socially fluid. The power of their face structures is especially noticeable in comparison to their shoulders. My mom is 5'2'' and I am 6'2'' and her cheekbones are wider than mine. You go down just one generation to my cousins and siblings, and none of us have those extremely powerful large heads and bone structures (including my full Asian cousins, however my cousins that were raised in Taiwan have somewhat more developed bone structures than those raised in America)

However, with all this being said, I suspect a lot of Asians might actually be somewhat hypothyroid. While they have very powerful bone structures, consistent energy, and pleasant demeanors, the women are not particularly feminine and the men are not particularly masculine, in their behavior, face structures, and body shapes. Also, particularly savage behavior doesn't seem that common (sex drugs crime social aggression) and they are generally extremely communal (when I feel weak and hypo I tend to be more communal and dependent, and tend to be more likely to shame those exhibiting selfish behavior. When I am hyper / healthy I am probably more selfish and don't care when others exhibit selfish savage energy, if anything I respect them more). Of course these are gross over- generalizations that may be completely wrong. I have also found this to not be true for Koreans, who often are extremely masculine or feminine, and often have savage levels of energy. Also I don't know if this means anything, but Taiwanese people usually do not have positive canthal tilt, which I think sometimes associates with savage energy and strong masculinity or femininity.

 

[lvysaur]

I think the forum member Tamader (sorry if I wrote his name wrongly) reported the opposite. I could be mistaken though.

Yeah I used to cough up phlegm quite a bit, Kuinone seems to knock it out

The phlegm I reported was only in the context of drinking milk, and is almost certainly from some issue concerning galactose digestion. In addition, K2 reduced this phlegm, although it was still present in small amounts after drinking milk.

Galactose is known to induce mucus in many people. Since I experience zero gas during mucus episodes (and the opposite, when I get zero mucus, I actually get some gas from milk), I think it's safe to assume that this is from the small intestinal absorption of galactose after lactose hydrolysis, and NOT from some type of persorption in the colon.

 

[Sheila]

To add to Mr Tamander's finding, I found out accidentally that 5mg K2 in the evening removes any phlegm I sometimes get from a glass of milk before retiring. I use Thorne's K2 currently.
Sheila

 

[milk_lover]

The phlegm I reported was only in the context of drinking milk, and is almost certainly from some issue concerning galactose digestion. In addition, K2 reduced this phlegm, although it was still present in small amounts after drinking milk.

Galactose is known to induce mucus in many people. Since I experience zero gas during mucus episodes (and the opposite, when I get zero mucus, I actually get some gas from milk), I think it's safe to assume that this is from the small intestinal absorption of galactose after lactose hydrolysis, and NOT from some type of persorption in the colon.

Interesting! I always thought phlegm is a sign of allergy. I get it sometimes when I drink a new type of milk or milk that has vitamins added. Why do you think vitamin K reduced your milk digestion? Do you think vitamin K reduce blood calcium so much that it needs a reservoir of calcium (i.e., the slowed milk) on standby?

 

[lvysaur]

I always thought phlegm is a sign of allergy. I get it sometimes when I drink a new type of milk or milk that has vitamins added.

I think it's almost all due to galactose. Galactose is even called "mucus sugar" in German, and Germany is a relatively lactose tolerant location.

I've been at both ends of the lactose spectrum, and at one point when I had severe SIBO/intestinal stress, I started taking lactase supplements. These gave me enormous amounts of mucus, but only after I had drunk the milk.

At my worst lactose intolerance, even a teaspoon of pure, gum-free ice cream would give me gas within 5 seconds of consumption.

At my highest lactose tolerance, half a glass (100 mL or so) of milk would give me very thick mucus in my throat.

Both of these extremes coincided with high amounts of hair loss for me. My suspicion is that the former was estrogenic/endotoxemic (strong gas from milk), while the latter was a high testosterone or DHT phase I was going through.

I have no idea why K reduces my lactose digestion rate, i just know that it does. And it's not a bad thing either, because if the mass of milk is kept in your intestine long enough, you're still going to digest the lactose to completion. It's just that the process will take a longer time.

Do you think vitamin K reduce blood calcium so much that it needs a reservoir of calcium (i.e., the slowed milk) on standby?

I don't think so.

I had a weeklong episode before starting K where I saw immense hair growth from eating oysters/meat in the same sitting (zinc and b6 in tandem strongly reduce DHT). During this episode, I could drink large quantities of milk with even less phlegm than now, and I had zero gas. My feces were completely devoid of odor, people would walk in the bathroom and be unable to know that I had taken a dump. I was not constipated at all, but my stools were very thick and dense, they did not float, and they came out very easily. My emotional state during this episode makes me think that it was a "high progesterone" phase. In women, pregnancy raises progesterone, and many lactose intolerant women are also known to become tolerant during pregnancy, because they digest food for a longer duration of time.

During this time, I was on vacation, was exposed to a lot of sunlight, and had a relatively low fiber diet.

If anything, my body was slowing digestion even more during this week, when I had not yet ever supplemented with K. I think that my body was able to digest almost 100% of the food I ate, which was why my poop was so odor-free; there was literally nothing for the bacteria to get to.

 

[milk_lover]

The vacation seemed to reduce your stress levels which can be helpful in digestion. When I am relaxed, I enjoy the food and I digest it perfectly even if it's bread!

 

[lvysaur]

It wasn't just the fact that I was on vacation, or I would have noticed that on other vacations. I think it was a combination of factors: sunlight, the oyster/meat combination, and a general lack of fermentable fiber in the diet (which I had neglected up until that point).

Regarding the glutamate: I seem to be in a very "high K" phase right now (jaw very wide, hair growth very heavy), and I ate a high glutamate meal (noodles with miso paste, the miso was dunked in hot water to dissolve, I also think this helps with bacteria and estrogen). After this, I felt an insanely strong feeling of confidence, superiority, and leadership that I hadn't felt since my teenage years. This feeling lasted for about two days straight.

My sex drive also shifted from a very relaxed and "love based" sex drive to an extremely dominant and "sexual" based one. However, it was not "insatiable", and I wasn't attracted to women with extremely sexual features, which is what I find happens when I eat fermentable fibers.

Peat on glutamate: "Excitotoxicity, in its simplest sense, is the harmful cellular effect (death or injury) caused by an excitatory transmitter such as glutamate or aspartate acting on a cell whose energetic reserves aren't adequate to sustain the level of activity provoked by the transmitter."

I'm a bit confused about what he's saying, but I wouldn't be surprised if my recent two months of exemplary health somehow replenished my "cellular energy reserves" so that they were adequate enough to withstand the large dose of glutamate I ate. It seems like those "reserves" were somehow harnessed by the glutamate to produce a very large quantity of testosterone.

 

[BigChad]

I think it's almost all due to galactose. Galactose is even called "mucus sugar" in German, and Germany is a relatively lactose tolerant location.

I've been at both ends of the lactose spectrum, and at one point when I had severe SIBO/intestinal stress, I started taking lactase supplements. These gave me enormous amounts of mucus, but only after I had drunk the milk.

At my worst lactose intolerance, even a teaspoon of pure, gum-free ice cream would give me gas within 5 seconds of consumption.

At my highest lactose tolerance, half a glass (100 mL or so) of milk would give me very thick mucus in my throat.

Both of these extremes coincided with high amounts of hair loss for me. My suspicion is that the former was estrogenic/endotoxemic (strong gas from milk), while the latter was a high testosterone or DHT phase I was going through.

I have no idea why K reduces my lactose digestion rate, i just know that it does. And it's not a bad thing either, because if the mass of milk is kept in your intestine long enough, you're still going to digest the lactose to completion. It's just that the process will take a longer time.



I don't think so.

I had a weeklong episode before starting K where I saw immense hair growth from eating oysters/meat in the same sitting (zinc and b6 in tandem strongly reduce DHT). During this episode, I could drink large quantities of milk with even less phlegm than now, and I had zero gas. My feces were completely devoid of odor, people would walk in the bathroom and be unable to know that I had taken a dump. I was not constipated at all, but my stools were very thick and dense, they did not float, and they came out very easily. My emotional state during this episode makes me think that it was a "high progesterone" phase. In women, pregnancy raises progesterone, and many lactose intolerant women are also known to become tolerant during pregnancy, because they digest food for a longer duration of time.

During this time, I was on vacation, was exposed to a lot of sunlight, and had a relatively low fiber diet.

If anything, my body was slowing digestion even more during this week, when I had not yet ever supplemented with K. I think that my body was able to digest almost 100% of the food I ate, which was why my poop was so odor-free; there was literally nothing for the bacteria to get to.

This is concerning. Were you getting bloating and indigestion after having milk or dairy? I dont think lack of phlegm alone means you had trouble digesting lactose