Vitamin K Science Writeup

[lollipop]

I don't know how it is in the States, but in Canada smaller farms produce milk and then sell it to companies who pool the milk from many farms together to make a commercial milk product. Saying it's 110% crap would really depend on the farm. A lot of these farmers will let their cows on pasture even. There is a farm down the street from me that does this.



I wonder if some pig feeds have Menadione in it. I have an "electrolyte" (that's what it's called for some reason) supplement for my pig which is basically a multi-vitamin that you put in the water. It has vitamin K3 in it, which gets converted to K2 in the body.



My goats go absolutely insane for corn. If a goat finds a bucket of corn they will eat so much that they can die from it. Goats like legumes as well like alfalfa and clover, not just grass. Goats seem to especially like leaves (they ate all of my bushes, cedar trees, as many maple leaves as they could reach). If I throw my christmas tree in their pen they strip that thing entirely, including the bark. Goats are very picky about eating grass/hay/water contaminated with feces. They are known as hay wasters because once the hay falls on the ground they tend not to eat it. Goats are browsers, like deer, and they will walk around the pasture looking for specific things. Cows on the other hand are grazers and will basically mow the lawn, eating almost everything. Goats do get into trouble though, and I could see them stealing a shirt lol. They like to nibble on things. They can be a real pain in the **** sometimes. After they ate all the low maple leaves in my yard they decided to jump on my car, which was parked under the tree, to reach more leaves. My car has seen better days now... I do have them fenced in a paddock but they find ways to escape and the one girl can just jump the 4 foot fence without even trying.

Funny stories about your goats @schultz, I love hearing your stories which are often balanced and truthful and from a perspective I do not have - I live near downtown in a high rise

 

[schultz]

Funny stories about your goats @schultz, I love hearing your stories which are often balanced and truthful and from a perspective I do not have - I live near downtown in a high rise

Thanks Lisa!

One thing I enjoy about the forum is that there seems to be quite a few "international" members. I enjoy the different viewpoints.

Here is a random goat pic for your amusement.

 

[lollipop]

Thanks Lisa!

One thing I enjoy about the forum is that there seems to be quite a few "international" members. I enjoy the different viewpoints.

Here is a random goat pic for your amusement.

View attachment 8830

Hehehehe..,

 

[yerrag]

At the end of this article, there is a vitamin K food database. It has a few different types of liver but not goat. https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource/

Thanks mito. That at least gives me an idea.

My goats go absolutely insane for corn. If a goat finds a bucket of corn they will eat so much that they can die from it. Goats like legumes as well like alfalfa and clover, not just grass. Goats seem to especially like leaves (they ate all of my bushes, cedar trees, as many maple leaves as they could reach). If I throw my christmas tree in their pen they strip that thing entirely, including the bark. Goats are very picky about eating grass/hay/water contaminated with feces. They are known as hay wasters because once the hay falls on the ground they tend not to eat it. Goats are browsers, like deer, and they will walk around the pasture looking for specific things. Cows on the other hand are grazers and will basically mow the lawn, eating almost everything. Goats do get into trouble though, and I could see them stealing a shirt lol. They like to nibble on things. They can be a real pain in the **** sometimes. After they ate all the low maple leaves in my yard they decided to jump on my car, which was parked under the tree, to reach more leaves. My car has seen better days now... I do have them fenced in a paddock but they find ways to escape and the one girl can just jump the 4 foot fence without even trying.

It's a downer that they eat corn. What breed are your goats? Maybe they're GMO goats? No? You're crossing your fingers. I can't help but think of when I was in Bakersfield. There are basque farmers that truck their goats from one place to another, in search of green fields that haven't been grazed on for some time.

 

[schultz]

It's a downer that they eat corn. What breed are your goats? Maybe they're GMO goats? No? You're crossing your fingers. I can't help but think of when I was in Bakersfield. There are basque farmers that truck their goats from one place to another, in search of green fields that haven't been grazed on for some time.

I use corn if I need them to follow me or listen to me. I can shake a can of corn and they'll hear it from pretty far away and come running. I don't use it that much and tend to give them alfalfa pellets or sugar as treats. They like to lick little piles of sugar. I used to make a little sugar mix for them that had some supplemental things in it but I got lazy and stopped doing that. It also makes milking easier if they have a treat otherwise they will not be very happy...

I have Saanens and Nigerian Dwarf goats. I also have a Tunis and some Dorset sheep and a pot-bellied pig (a barrow) whom I plan to kill soon and replace with some new hens and possibly some sort of meat fowl like ducks or possibly turkeys (though I have heard they are annoying). I also have a Komondor who protects my property. He's a big oaf but is a serious guardian when something threatens the property. I really want to get a jersey cow or two but I will probably put that off for another year and wait until next spring. I would like to have a cream separator and cheese cave ready for dealing with all that milk. Leftover whey from cheese making could be fed as a low PUFA feed to hens or a new pig. Lots to look forward to!

I'm not sure what a GMO goat is? Genetic modification of livestock through selective breeding has been happening for thousands of years (though the livestock world doesn't understand how much environment contributes to the subsequent generations and focus wholly on genes)

 

[ImprovingDaily]

What about the people who take 5 mg k2 per day and begin to steadily develop a noticeably wider face? I think I have noticed this from k2, and freaked out and promptly stopped taking it. Aesthetically I do not want a wider face, mine is already on the wide and round side. Have you run across any research regarding k2 and bone growth, particularly facial bone structure?

Same here. My jaw got noticeably wider. I had a nice sized face before this and I don't like what it did to my jaw. I just wish I could avoid the facial growth and keep the other effects ,cuz taking k2 makes me feel pretty good.

 

[yerrag]

I use corn if I need them to follow me or listen to me. I can shake a can of corn and they'll hear it from pretty far away and come running. I don't use it that much and tend to give them alfalfa pellets or sugar as treats. They like to lick little piles of sugar. I used to make a little sugar mix for them that had some supplemental things in it but I got lazy and stopped doing that. It also makes milking easier if they have a treat otherwise they will not be very happy...

I have Saanens and Nigerian Dwarf goats. I also have a Tunis and some Dorset sheep and a pot-bellied pig (a barrow) whom I plan to kill soon and replace with some new hens and possibly some sort of meat fowl like ducks or possibly turkeys (though I have heard they are annoying). I also have a Komondor who protects my property. He's a big oaf but is a serious guardian when something threatens the property. I really want to get a jersey cow or two but I will probably put that off for another year and wait until next spring. I would like to have a cream separator and cheese cave ready for dealing with all that milk. Leftover whey from cheese making could be fed as a low PUFA feed to hens or a new pig. Lots to look forward to!

I'm not sure what a GMO goat is? Genetic modification of livestock through selective breeding has been happening for thousands of years (though the livestock world doesn't understand how much environment contributes to the subsequent generations and focus wholly on genes)

Selective breeding isn't GMO because the gene mod is done by nature to ensure the change is compatible with the rest of the organism. For example, making the organism instantly larger by gene splicing does not take into account whether the skeletal structure is capable of supporting the load of a larger organism. This could end up with mobility, integrity, and survival issues.

Anyway, I was just hoping your goats eating corn are exceptions, hoping that goats would be strictly grass grazers so that the goat liver I eat would be rich in k2.

Nice collection of farm animals you've got! Must get a kick (no pun intended) out of them.

 

[ddjd]

Hey guys!

I've talked to Haidut, and he recommended I share this blog post here.

I've basically done a write-up on vitamin K - especially vitamin K2 MK4 - while integrating about 120 scientific references.

I hope this might help some people here, because I've attempted to keep my language as plain and simple as possible:

Vitamin K: Why You're Deficient (And What To Do About It)

If after reading you're wondering why I do not recommend Haidut's specific MK4 product? I think in it's current state, the product is harder to market to a larger audience. However, having said that, Haidut's product is absolutely amazing in terms of quality. The sad thing is that most of the general population cannot see beyond how a bottle looks on the outside...

Enjoy!

What about k1?

 

[schultz]

Selective breeding isn't GMO because the gene mod is done by nature to ensure the change is compatible with the rest of the organism. For example, making the organism instantly larger by gene splicing does not take into account whether the skeletal structure is capable of supporting the load of a larger organism. This could end up with mobility, integrity, and survival issues.

Breeding programs can also produce animals with anatomical problems, like brachycephalic dogs, myotonic goats, or polled livestock (though that's considered a good thing for livestock, it is likely bad if these animals were in the wild). Livestock tend to be tamer than the animals they were bred from and would probably not survive as well in the wild. Many breeds have features that would not be ideal in the wild. The argument that gene modding is bad because it's bad for the longevity/longterm survival of the animal is not a great argument, IMO. If the meat from that animal is not nutritious, or is somehow unhealthy in a way, or if the health of the animal compromises profits/efficiency, then I would consider that a better argument.

The myotonic goat serves its purpose (being hilarious), the red sexlink serves its purpose (laying massive amounts of eggs) and the holstein cow serves its purpose (some can produce over 50 litres of milk a day). As long as the foods we get from these animals is healthy to us, I don't see the problem. However, in all fairness, we may not know if there is any problem with gene modding done in a lab and its effects on us, so that is a point to consider. Also, some of these mods, whether done through breeding or in a lab, may not be ethical. The pug dog lives with breathing problems its whole life. Lastly, I think there is an argument to be made for how these mods can possibly have broader effects in nature.

Anyway, you made it seem like somehow a genetically modified animal was less healthy for humans consuming it and then explained that the problem with gene modification is that it's bad for the animal. The latter is not really a good argument for human health.

Anyway, I was just hoping your goats eating corn are exceptions, hoping that goats would be strictly grass grazers so that the goat liver I eat would be rich in k2.

They eat mainly hay and alfalfa pellets in the winter and pasture in the spring, summer and fall with some supplemented feed (hay or pellets). Grain is usually a very small part of most hobby farms livestock feed regimen, but I think most farms (especially ones producing meat for market, milk) will use some kind of supplemental feed for their livestock, whether that is corn or some other grain, GMO or non-GMO. I fail to see how adding a small amount of corn to an animals diet can have that much of an impact on vitamin K status, especially since ruminant animals have vitamin K synthesized in their digestive tract, so they are getting a certain amount of vitamin K regardless of whether it's in their diet or not, assuming the animal is healthy (and not eating sweet clover). Generic beef liver has vitamin K2 in it (MK 9 to 13 I believe, which are likely produced by bacteria). If the animal is stressed, absorption and/or production of b-vitamins and vitamin K in the digestive system is compromised. Fresh alfalfa is high in vitamin K, and the pelleted alfalfa is likely still high in vitamin K, so my animals are getting a good amount. They have access to pasture year round so in the spring, summer and fall they are eating pasture (which is more than just grass... I prefer to say pasture fed).

 

[yerrag]

My point was that I'd feel more assured if the goat strictly ate grass, so there would be a higher content of K2 in the goat for me to eat. If the goat can eat corn (and let's be clear what you feed your goat is irrelevant) and there is a chance he will just be fed corn, I won't want to be eating that goat because it would be lacking vitamin k2. The profit motive would just as well deprive us of k2-rich goat because it costs less to feed the goat corn.

Take whatever you want to interpret from what I said about GMO, but GMO is different from selective breeding, and you initially equated GMO to selective breeding, which is inaccurate.

 

[Wagner83]

I don't know if you saw that but this has been posted by westside:

Conversion of dietary phylloquinone to tissue menaquinone-4 in rats is not dependent on gut bacteria. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I've started taking K2 (~3 mg daily) 2 days ago, and I can actually feel pain in my jaw as we speak. What the hell. I wish there was a way to predict if this 'facial remodeling' is gonna end up looking positive or negative, cause if it screws up my aesthetics I don't want to keep taking it. Dang it.

 

[lvysaur]

you can be sure thats 110% crap from miserable raised animals for the mainstream ignorant population.

Well at the supermarket he probably pays supermarket prices. While at the farmer he pays yuppie 300% markup prices.

I've stopped caring about any sort of designation, organic, GMO, or otherwise. I go primarily by how the stuff looks/smells/tastes. If it's good it's good.

I'd rather eat a freshly killed "conventional" chicken then a pasture raised, grass-supplemented chicken whose meat is 8 days old.

 

[ebs]

Thanks! 1mg is the minimal dose with Thorne (1 drop).

According to the bottle two drops is 200 mcg = 167% of the rdi. 200 mcg is 0.2 mg. So how is one drop 1 mg for you?

 

[Tapioca]

Hey guys!

I've talked to Haidut, and he recommended I share this blog post here.

I've basically done a write-up on vitamin K - especially vitamin K2 MK4 - while integrating about 120 scientific references.

I hope this might help some people here, because I've attempted to keep my language as plain and simple as possible:

Vitamin K: Why You're Deficient (And What To Do About It)

If after reading you're wondering why I do not recommend Haidut's specific MK4 product? I think in it's current state, the product is harder to market to a larger audience. However, having said that, Haidut's product is absolutely amazing in terms of quality. The sad thing is that most of the general population cannot see beyond how a bottle looks on the outside...

Enjoy!

Hey, do you still have this blog post? The link comes back empty and I’m interested in reading your write up.

 

[aliml]

Vitamin K: Why You're Deficient & What To Do About It

Surprise: most foods don't prevent vitamin K deficiencies. Learn which specific foods and science-backed supplements give you vitamin K2's amazing benefits.

www.alexfergus.com

 

[Tapioca]

Vitamin K: Why You're Deficient & What To Do About It

Surprise: most foods don't prevent vitamin K deficiencies. Learn which specific foods and science-backed supplements give you vitamin K2's amazing benefits.

www.alexfergus.com

Thank you