Vitamin D intake guidelines underestimated by a factor of 10

[haidut]

I don't know what Ray's specific guidelines on daily intake of vitamin D are, but I have seen him express opinion that 400 IU - 800 IU is likely too low to make a difference. This study claims that the current guidelines are underestimated by a factor of 10, so a person should really be ingesting north of 4,000 IU of vitamin D3 daily.
If true, this may explain why most studies with vitamin D did not see effects with doses of less then 3,000 IU.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/scient ... ar-too-low

There's something I wanted to get your opinion of, Haidut.
Although I'm supposedly deficient, vitamin D is the least effective of the fat soluble vitamins in my experience.
I feel indifferent to taking it.
Why do you think is that?

Couple of possible reasons I can think of.
1. Your PTH may already be low enough that you don't get any benefit from extra vitamin D.
2. Impaired conversion of vitamin D into calcitriol (the active vitamin D capable of activating the VDR).
3. Insufficient intake or imbalance in the other fat-soluble vitamins, especially vitamin A and K. For instance, if vitamin A is too low or too high it would either make vitamin D toxic or block its action altogether. Also, low vitamin K decreases the ability of calcitriol to activate VDR.
4. Many people deficient in vitamin D experience no relief until their levels reach at least 35. Some people with diabetes and heart disease need levels of 50+ to feel better. Again, achieving these levels is not easy and potentially harmful if vitamin D is taken on its own. Always combine with A and K, unless you have blood tests showing A and K are high and do not need supplementing.

Just my 2c.

 

[Dean]

Is the vitamin A used in your supplement different than what is used in fortified milk powders?

 

[haidut]

Is the vitamin A used in your supplement different than what is used in fortified milk powders?

Yes, it's pure retinyl acetate dissolved in 20% ethanol solution. So, it can be absorbed easily through the skin as well as ingested (can't recommend that route officially).

 

[Dean]

So, I guess than I shouldn't be counting on the 7000iu of non-beta carotene vitamin A I'm getting daily from milk powder? I haven't been good about eating liver either. I have been supplementing D and K2 with the Thorne liquid. So, without the pure Vitamin A are my ratios in terms of synergy between D,K,A and being able to utilize calcium all screwed up?

 

[haidut]

So, I guess than I shouldn't be counting on the 7000iu of non-beta carotene vitamin A I'm getting daily from milk powder? I haven't been good about eating liver either. I have been supplementing D and K2 with the Thorne liquid. So, without the pure Vitamin A are my ratios in terms of synergy between D,K,A and being able to utilize calcium all screwed up?

What is your intake of K, A and D in mg or IU per day?

 

[Dean]

I'm getting about 7000iu of Vitamin A (subtracting out beta-carotene) almost entirely from non-fat milk powder. With diet, the Thorne D/K2 and a Super K pill 3-4 times a week, I'm getting 6-7,000iu of D and 10-12 mg of K2. Plus, I am getting varying amounts of red light (less though lately, as the weather begins to warm up) and a little time in the sun. Thanks.

 

[haidut]

I'm getting about 7000iu of Vitamin A (subtracting out beta-carotene) almost entirely from non-fat milk powder. With diet, the Thorne D/K2 and a Super K pill 3-4 times a week, I'm getting 6-7,000iu of D and 10-12 mg of K2. Plus, I am getting varying amounts of red light (less though lately, as the weather begins to warm up) and a little time in the sun. Thanks.

Vitamin D intake is a bit high. Nothing wrong with it but you need extra vitamin A to control the potential toxicity of vitamin D. The optimal ratios seen in studies are between 4 and 8, so an average of 5-6 should be good. So, with 7,000 IU of vitamin D you'd need 35,000 - 40,000 IU of vitamin A per day. Since such higher levels may suppress thyroid, I'd add some vitamin E to control perodixation of vitamin A and also increase thyroid dosage. How long have you been taking such high dose vitamin D? In theory, taking such dose should bring your levels out of deficiency and into the mid 40s range after only 1 month of supplementation. Have you had your calcitriol tested?

 

[emmanceb]

I'm puzzled by A's ability to cause hypercalcemia in excess yet blunt vitamin D's

At 4,000 IU (VitD), you'd still require a potentially thyroid suppressive dose of vitamin A would you not?

Anything around 10,000 IU (VitA) for too long brings on a sense or malaise/vertigo for me

Edit: I guess that's why you suggested the increase in thyroid dosage

 

[Dean]

Thanks, Haidut. I started taking the Thorne d/k2 in mid-Jan. I had been limiting myself to getting no more than 4000 iu of D, but then I've seen some stuff lately on here that VitD needs are 10x higher, etc., so I've been taking the higher dose for a few weeks to a month since I've been wanting to increase my k2 anyway.

I'm not on thyroid. I spent years trying to get a doctor to diagnose/treat my obvious hypothyroid to no avail. I've given up. I don't have the financial means right now to be chasing doctors anyway. I did experiment with T3 a few years back while I was in Cambodia and able to buy it easily and cheaply. I didn't notice any positive effect from it, but I admit I wasn't using it very responsibly (checking pulse/temps) and I also have doubts about the quality of the product I was taking over there.

With my thyroid issues and slow metabolism, I guess I shouldn't be even getting as much A as I am right now, much less the amount you say I'd need to take to keep up with the level of D I've been taking recently. Guess I'll reduce the D back down to 4000 and maybe cut my A intake in half by going back to eating fage yogurt for 1/2 my protein instead of using so much of the milk powder. Thanks again. Sorry to hijack the thread with my personal sh.....

edit: Oh man, it was this very thread that gave me the idea of increasing my D intake. I don't even know if I'm coming or going anymore. Sorry.

 

[haidut]

I'm puzzled by A's ability to cause hypercalcemia in excess yet blunt vitamin D's

At 4,000 IU (VitD), you'd still require a potentially thyroid suppressive dose of vitamin A would you not?

Anything around 10,000 IU (VitA) for too long brings on a sense or malaise/vertigo for me

Edit: I guess that's why you suggested the increase in thyroid dosage

Vitamin A does not cause hypercalcemia, it actually lowers it. This is another myth propagated by pharma companies. Vitamin A in higher doses inhibits the conversion of vitamin D into the activated vitamin D (calcitriol). This thread has a study showing that vitamin A lowers calcium and increases phosphorus in rats treated with vitamin D, and in higher doses blocked the effects of vitamin D completely.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=5809
If you know of direct supplementation studies that show hypercalcemia effects of vitamin A, please post them.

 

[IWishIWasRich]

I got tested for vitamin D for both 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3. MY 25OH was on a severe deficit, but my was 1,25OH was near mid range (somewhat decent). Should I even supplement? I don't get any sunlight so I guess the reason im on half range with 1,25OH is due the vitamin D on my diet. Im still worried that 25OH shows severe deficit, but isn't 1,25OH levels all that matters? thats the active metabolite at the end of the day.
The thing is, my doctor (and all doctors as far as I know) only checks for 25OH, so if he told me to get on vitamin D, they also give you liquid D2 for some reason at least in Europe. The dose is also too high, so I was worried about hypercalcemia and didn't take it. They have never tested me for any other vitamin that isn't D and they onl test 25OH, the cheap bastards.

Anyway let me know what I should do about this. For starters I should get more time in the sun, but im too tired to go out usually.

 

[haidut]

I got tested for vitamin D for both 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3. MY 25OH was on a severe deficit, but my was 1,25OH was near mid range (somewhat decent). Should I even supplement? I don't get any sunlight so I guess the reason im on half range with 1,25OH is due the vitamin D on my diet. Im still worried that 25OH shows severe deficit, but isn't 1,25OH levels all that matters? thats the active metabolite at the end of the day.
The thing is, my doctor (and all doctors as far as I know) only checks for 25OH, so if he told me to get on vitamin D, they also give you liquid D2 for some reason at least in Europe. The dose is also too high, so I was worried about hypercalcemia and didn't take it. They have never tested me for any other vitamin that isn't D and they onl test 25OH, the cheap bastards.

Anyway let me know what I should do about this. For starters I should get more time in the sun, but im too tired to go out usually.

High 1,25OH and low 25OH is a classic sign of calcium deficiency. Are you eating enough calcium? Have you had your PTH levels checked?
When you don't eat enough calcium the body raises PTH levels, which stimulates conversion of 25OH into 1,25OH to increase calcium absorption from the intestine. Btw, you don't want 1,25OH to become too high - it is a marker of several unpleasant diseases. So, I'd suggest asking the doctor for testing PTH and if it is above 20 asking for some vitamin D3 at no more than 5,000 IU daily for a month. In combination with that, I'd raise calcium intake to at least 600mg - 700mg daily, and 1,000mg would be much much better. If it is calcium deficiency, in about a month 25OH will be higher, 1,25OH will be lower, PTH will be lower and metabolism should be better.
Btw, in a calcium deficiency state the body sometimes raises prolactin, so you may want to get that one checked too.

 

[narouz]

I got tested for vitamin D for both 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3. MY 25OH was on a severe deficit, but my was 1,25OH was near mid range (somewhat decent). Should I even supplement? I don't get any sunlight so I guess the reason im on half range with 1,25OH is due the vitamin D on my diet. Im still worried that 25OH shows severe deficit, but isn't 1,25OH levels all that matters? thats the active metabolite at the end of the day.
The thing is, my doctor (and all doctors as far as I know) only checks for 25OH, so if he told me to get on vitamin D, they also give you liquid D2 for some reason at least in Europe. The dose is also too high, so I was worried about hypercalcemia and didn't take it. They have never tested me for any other vitamin that isn't D and they onl test 25OH, the cheap bastards.

Anyway let me know what I should do about this. For starters I should get more time in the sun, but im too tired to go out usually.

High 1,25OH and low 25OH is a classic sign of calcium deficiency. Are you eating enough calcium? Have you had your PTH levels checked?
When you don't eat enough calcium the body raises PTH levels, which stimulates conversion of 25OH into 1,25OH to increase calcium absorption from the intestine. Btw, you don't want 1,25OH to become too high - it is a marker of several unpleasant diseases. So, I'd suggest asking the doctor for testing PTH and if it is above 20 asking for some vitamin D3 at no more than 5,000 IU daily for a month. In combination with that, I'd raise calcium intake to at least 600mg - 700mg daily, and 1,000mg would be much much better. If it is calcium deficiency, in about a month 25OH will be higher, 1,25OH will be lower, PTH will be lower and metabolism should be better.
Btw, in a calcium deficiency state the body sometimes raises prolactin, so you may want to get that one checked too.

haidut-
I've just recently been looking into the vitamin D area.
Sorry if this has already been discussed
but I think I heard Peat in a recent-ish interview
voice some possible doubt on what he referred to as "the activated form" of vitamin D.
Are you familiar with his views on that?

Also, suikerbuik--again, maybe also already aired, sorry--
has raised some possible doubts about vitamin D.
I believe the D3 form.
He points towards some views (forget the researcher's name now)
showing that high doses of D3 may negatively impact immunity.
Have you seen that and any thoughts?

Over the past year I've been struggling with a weird phenomenon where,
when I try to raise my T4/T3 (or just T3) up to doses where my temp/pulse are good,
I get pretty violent heart palpitations and racing.
My TSH during that time was down near zero,
taking 1&1/2 grain NDT (or cynoplus).

Just here in the last 3 months or so I've changed a lot of things,
amongst them,
adding a lot of calcium carbonate (like 1500mg/day) while discontinuing D3.
Been feeling modestly better.
Back pain better.
TSH 6.6 a couple weeks ago (and other thyroid markers show I need more thyroid).
Now bumping up thyroid dose slowly,
so far with no palpitation problems.

Don't know quite what to make of it.
Maybe parathyroid problems helped by calcium?
(Hadn't tested my parathyroid previously,
but in the recent testing after calcium & no D3
PTH was 41)

 

[haidut]

I got tested for vitamin D for both 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3. MY 25OH was on a severe deficit, but my was 1,25OH was near mid range (somewhat decent). Should I even supplement? I don't get any sunlight so I guess the reason im on half range with 1,25OH is due the vitamin D on my diet. Im still worried that 25OH shows severe deficit, but isn't 1,25OH levels all that matters? thats the active metabolite at the end of the day.
The thing is, my doctor (and all doctors as far as I know) only checks for 25OH, so if he told me to get on vitamin D, they also give you liquid D2 for some reason at least in Europe. The dose is also too high, so I was worried about hypercalcemia and didn't take it. They have never tested me for any other vitamin that isn't D and they onl test 25OH, the cheap bastards.

Anyway let me know what I should do about this. For starters I should get more time in the sun, but im too tired to go out usually.

High 1,25OH and low 25OH is a classic sign of calcium deficiency. Are you eating enough calcium? Have you had your PTH levels checked?
When you don't eat enough calcium the body raises PTH levels, which stimulates conversion of 25OH into 1,25OH to increase calcium absorption from the intestine. Btw, you don't want 1,25OH to become too high - it is a marker of several unpleasant diseases. So, I'd suggest asking the doctor for testing PTH and if it is above 20 asking for some vitamin D3 at no more than 5,000 IU daily for a month. In combination with that, I'd raise calcium intake to at least 600mg - 700mg daily, and 1,000mg would be much much better. If it is calcium deficiency, in about a month 25OH will be higher, 1,25OH will be lower, PTH will be lower and metabolism should be better.
Btw, in a calcium deficiency state the body sometimes raises prolactin, so you may want to get that one checked too.

haidut-
I've just recently been looking into the vitamin D area.
Sorry if this has already been discussed
but I think I heard Peat in a recent-ish interview
voice some possible doubt on what he referred to as "the activated form" of vitamin D.
Are you familiar with his views on that?

Also, suikerbuik--again, maybe also already aired, sorry--
has raised some possible doubts about vitamin D.
I believe the D3 form.
He points towards some views (forget the researcher's name now)
showing that high doses of D3 may negatively impact immunity.
Have you seen that and any thoughts?

Over the past year I've been struggling with a weird phenomenon where,
when I try to raise my T4/T3 (or just T3) up to doses where my temp/pulse are good,
I get pretty violent heart palpitations and racing.
My TSH during that time was down near zero,
taking 1&1/2 grain NDT (or cynoplus).

Just here in the last 3 months or so I've changed a lot of things,
amongst them,
adding a lot of calcium carbonate (like 1500mg/day) while discontinuing D3.
Been feeling modestly better.
Back pain better.
TSH 6.6 a couple weeks ago (and other thyroid markers show I need more thyroid).
Now bumping up thyroid dose slowly,
so far with no palpitation problems.

Don't know quite what to make of it.
Maybe parathyroid problems helped by calcium?
(Hadn't tested my parathyroid previously,
but in the recent testing after calcium & no D3
PTH was 41)

Haven't read about that view of Peat on vitamin AD but if you can find the link for me I'd appreciate it.
Palpitations from thyroid could be many things, including reverse T3 from too much T4 at once, not enough cholesterol and/or pregnenolone to support increased thyroid function, high PTH, high adrenalin, etc.
Maybe you can try taking 30mg - 50mg pregnenolone with your thyroid dos and see if that changes things. PTH can definitely use some lowering, at 41 it is not optimal. Calcium magnesium and zinc go well together, so if you take a lot of calcium make sure you ingest enough magnesium and zinc rich foods.
Other than that, it seems like you are stimulating the thyroid but one of the pathways for optimal energy production is blocked. Btw, are your FFA elevated or are you lowering them with things like niacinamide?

 

[IWishIWasRich]

I got tested for vitamin D for both 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3. MY 25OH was on a severe deficit, but my was 1,25OH was near mid range (somewhat decent). Should I even supplement? I don't get any sunlight so I guess the reason im on half range with 1,25OH is due the vitamin D on my diet. Im still worried that 25OH shows severe deficit, but isn't 1,25OH levels all that matters? thats the active metabolite at the end of the day.
The thing is, my doctor (and all doctors as far as I know) only checks for 25OH, so if he told me to get on vitamin D, they also give you liquid D2 for some reason at least in Europe. The dose is also too high, so I was worried about hypercalcemia and didn't take it. They have never tested me for any other vitamin that isn't D and they onl test 25OH, the cheap bastards.

Anyway let me know what I should do about this. For starters I should get more time in the sun, but im too tired to go out usually.

High 1,25OH and low 25OH is a classic sign of calcium deficiency. Are you eating enough calcium? Have you had your PTH levels checked?
When you don't eat enough calcium the body raises PTH levels, which stimulates conversion of 25OH into 1,25OH to increase calcium absorption from the intestine. Btw, you don't want 1,25OH to become too high - it is a marker of several unpleasant diseases. So, I'd suggest asking the doctor for testing PTH and if it is above 20 asking for some vitamin D3 at no more than 5,000 IU daily for a month. In combination with that, I'd raise calcium intake to at least 600mg - 700mg daily, and 1,000mg would be much much better. If it is calcium deficiency, in about a month 25OH will be higher, 1,25OH will be lower, PTH will be lower and metabolism should be better.
Btw, in a calcium deficiency state the body sometimes raises prolactin, so you may want to get that one checked too.

I got PTH checked on that same bloodwork, which came at 25 but the range was way higher, the top was almost 90, the bottom 17 so it doesn't seem like it's too high?

And again, doctors here don't give you D3 for some reason, they give you some liquid ergocalciferol (D2).
My prolactin was also on range, on that same bloodwork, 6.10 on a range of 2.5 to 19
Of course I paid for all this bloodwork, the cheap bastards never considered checking any hormones that isn't TSH and t4, can you believe that?

I don't really know about my calcium intake, I drink milk daily and so on, and im going to get a mineral supplement by thorne which includes calcium. Also some K2 which should be good to combat any calcification.

 

[EnoreeG]

I got tested for vitamin D for both 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3. MY 25OH was on a severe deficit, but my was 1,25OH was near mid range (somewhat decent). Should I even supplement? I don't get any sunlight so I guess the reason im on half range with 1,25OH is due the vitamin D on my diet. Im still worried that 25OH shows severe deficit, but isn't 1,25OH levels all that matters? thats the active metabolite at the end of the day.
The thing is, my doctor (and all doctors as far as I know) only checks for 25OH, so if he told me to get on vitamin D, they also give you liquid D2 for some reason at least in Europe. The dose is also too high, so I was worried about hypercalcemia and didn't take it. They have never tested me for any other vitamin that isn't D and they onl test 25OH, the cheap bastards.

Anyway let me know what I should do about this. For starters I should get more time in the sun, but im too tired to go out usually.

High 1,25OH and low 25OH is a classic sign of calcium deficiency. Are you eating enough calcium? Have you had your PTH levels checked?
When you don't eat enough calcium the body raises PTH levels, which stimulates conversion of 25OH into 1,25OH to increase calcium absorption from the intestine. Btw, you don't want 1,25OH to become too high - it is a marker of several unpleasant diseases. So, I'd suggest asking the doctor for testing PTH and if it is above 20 asking for some vitamin D3 at no more than 5,000 IU daily for a month. In combination with that, I'd raise calcium intake to at least 600mg - 700mg daily, and 1,000mg would be much much better. If it is calcium deficiency, in about a month 25OH will be higher, 1,25OH will be lower, PTH will be lower and metabolism should be better.
Btw, in a calcium deficiency state the body sometimes raises prolactin, so you may want to get that one checked too.

haidut, like narouz, I have questions on this last advice, as well as some of your other remarks. Lastly, you are saying "1,250H increases calcium absorption from the intestine". I suggest you might wish to say "1,250H is responsible for absorption from the intestine". It is misleading if you say it "increases" calcium absorption, because that implies, the more you have of 1,250H, the more calcium you absorb. According to this following study, that is definitely not true, and as the 1,250H increases to an elevated level, you will have the opposite situation due to the limiting effect on the vitamin D receptors (VDR):

"1,25(OH)2D up-regulates the VDR in the small intestine, which then transcribes genes that shuttle calcium and phosphorus through the intestinal epithelium. However, mucosal response and calcium/phosphorus absorption are dependent on a competent VDR and elevated 1,25(OH)2D reduces VDR competence [51]. Thus, calcium and phosphorus absorption may be inhibited if VDR function is impaired by elevated 1,25(OH)2D. This is illustrated by Abreu et al. [52] in a study of Crohn’s patients with elevated 1,25(OH)2D and low bone mineral density which concluded that treatment of the underlying inflammation would improve metabolic bone disease. In fact, there is ample evidence that elevated 1,25(OH)2D leads to bone loss."


Here's the link mentioning the study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160567/

Like narouz, I discontinued D3 supplements long ago. I actually consider the supplements at least useless, and potentially dangerous (for my case). For proper mineral balancing, I think whole foods are key, from which I can get magnesium and boron which are critical for calcium utilization. Not that I ignore the value of the other fat soluble vitamins, but I get those also from whole foods.

I am interested in your take on the linked article. Faults? Oversights? Valid?

 

[haidut]

I got tested for vitamin D for both 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3. MY 25OH was on a severe deficit, but my was 1,25OH was near mid range (somewhat decent). Should I even supplement? I don't get any sunlight so I guess the reason im on half range with 1,25OH is due the vitamin D on my diet. Im still worried that 25OH shows severe deficit, but isn't 1,25OH levels all that matters? thats the active metabolite at the end of the day.
The thing is, my doctor (and all doctors as far as I know) only checks for 25OH, so if he told me to get on vitamin D, they also give you liquid D2 for some reason at least in Europe. The dose is also too high, so I was worried about hypercalcemia and didn't take it. They have never tested me for any other vitamin that isn't D and they onl test 25OH, the cheap bastards.

Anyway let me know what I should do about this. For starters I should get more time in the sun, but im too tired to go out usually.

High 1,25OH and low 25OH is a classic sign of calcium deficiency. Are you eating enough calcium? Have you had your PTH levels checked?
When you don't eat enough calcium the body raises PTH levels, which stimulates conversion of 25OH into 1,25OH to increase calcium absorption from the intestine. Btw, you don't want 1,25OH to become too high - it is a marker of several unpleasant diseases. So, I'd suggest asking the doctor for testing PTH and if it is above 20 asking for some vitamin D3 at no more than 5,000 IU daily for a month. In combination with that, I'd raise calcium intake to at least 600mg - 700mg daily, and 1,000mg would be much much better. If it is calcium deficiency, in about a month 25OH will be higher, 1,25OH will be lower, PTH will be lower and metabolism should be better.
Btw, in a calcium deficiency state the body sometimes raises prolactin, so you may want to get that one checked too.

I got PTH checked on that same bloodwork, which came at 25 but the range was way higher, the top was almost 90, the bottom 17 so it doesn't seem like it's too high?

And again, doctors here don't give you D3 for some reason, they give you some liquid ergocalciferol (D2).
My prolactin was also on range, on that same bloodwork, 6.10 on a range of 2.5 to 19
Of course I paid for all this bloodwork, the cheap bastards never considered checking any hormones that isn't TSH and t4, can you believe that?

I don't really know about my calcium intake, I drink milk daily and so on, and im going to get a mineral supplement by thorne which includes calcium. Also some K2 which should be good to combat any calcification.

The ergocalciferol is not a very good way to replenish vitamin D. In USA they sell cholecalciferol (D3) over the counter so that's what I use. Anyways, as long as PTH stays in the lower 50%, and 1,25OH is within range you should be OK. But make sure you up calcium intake a bit. Most people barely eat 300mg a day and that will barely cover losses from catabolism.

 

[IWishIWasRich]

I got tested for vitamin D for both 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3. MY 25OH was on a severe deficit, but my was 1,25OH was near mid range (somewhat decent). Should I even supplement? I don't get any sunlight so I guess the reason im on half range with 1,25OH is due the vitamin D on my diet. Im still worried that 25OH shows severe deficit, but isn't 1,25OH levels all that matters? thats the active metabolite at the end of the day.
The thing is, my doctor (and all doctors as far as I know) only checks for 25OH, so if he told me to get on vitamin D, they also give you liquid D2 for some reason at least in Europe. The dose is also too high, so I was worried about hypercalcemia and didn't take it. They have never tested me for any other vitamin that isn't D and they onl test 25OH, the cheap bastards.

Anyway let me know what I should do about this. For starters I should get more time in the sun, but im too tired to go out usually.

High 1,25OH and low 25OH is a classic sign of calcium deficiency. Are you eating enough calcium? Have you had your PTH levels checked?
When you don't eat enough calcium the body raises PTH levels, which stimulates conversion of 25OH into 1,25OH to increase calcium absorption from the intestine. Btw, you don't want 1,25OH to become too high - it is a marker of several unpleasant diseases. So, I'd suggest asking the doctor for testing PTH and if it is above 20 asking for some vitamin D3 at no more than 5,000 IU daily for a month. In combination with that, I'd raise calcium intake to at least 600mg - 700mg daily, and 1,000mg would be much much better. If it is calcium deficiency, in about a month 25OH will be higher, 1,25OH will be lower, PTH will be lower and metabolism should be better.
Btw, in a calcium deficiency state the body sometimes raises prolactin, so you may want to get that one checked too.

haidut, like narouz, I have questions on this last advice, as well as some of your other remarks. Lastly, you are saying "1,250H increases calcium absorption from the intestine". I suggest you might wish to say "1,250H is responsible for absorption from the intestine". It is misleading if you say it "increases" calcium absorption, because that implies, the more you have of 1,250H, the more calcium you absorb. According to this following study, that is definitely not true, and as the 1,250H increases to an elevated level, you will have the opposite situation due to the limiting effect on the vitamin D receptors (VDR):

"1,25(OH)2D up-regulates the VDR in the small intestine, which then transcribes genes that shuttle calcium and phosphorus through the intestinal epithelium. However, mucosal response and calcium/phosphorus absorption are dependent on a competent VDR and elevated 1,25(OH)2D reduces VDR competence [51]. Thus, calcium and phosphorus absorption may be inhibited if VDR function is impaired by elevated 1,25(OH)2D. This is illustrated by Abreu et al. [52] in a study of Crohn’s patients with elevated 1,25(OH)2D and low bone mineral density which concluded that treatment of the underlying inflammation would improve metabolic bone disease. In fact, there is ample evidence that elevated 1,25(OH)2D leads to bone loss."


Here's the link mentioning the study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160567/

Like narouz, I discontinued D3 supplements long ago. I actually consider the supplements at least useless, and potentially dangerous (for my case). For proper mineral balancing, I think whole foods are key, from which I can get magnesium and boron which are critical for calcium utilization. Not that I ignore the value of the other fat soluble vitamins, but I get those also from whole foods.

I am interested in your take on the linked article. Faults? Oversights? Valid?

You don't take any supplements/vitamins? How does your diet look like to get all the stuff from food only?
I've also heard vitamin D3 supplementation can be a big mistake in some cases, still don't know when it's and isn't a good idea to supplement tho. From what I understood from some reading, you don't really need supplementation when your 1,25 seems to be on range. It's still interesting that I get a severe OH25 deficit, probably because I haven't had any decent sunlight in ages.

 

[narouz]

Haven't read about that view of Peat on vitamin AD but if you can find the link for me I'd appreciate it.
Palpitations from thyroid could be many things, including reverse T3 from too much T4 at once, not enough cholesterol and/or pregnenolone to support increased thyroid function, high PTH, high adrenalin, etc.
Maybe you can try taking 30mg - 50mg pregnenolone with your thyroid dos and see if that changes things. PTH can definitely use some lowering, at 41 it is not optimal. Calcium magnesium and zinc go well together, so if you take a lot of calcium make sure you ingest enough magnesium and zinc rich foods.
Other than that, it seems like you are stimulating the thyroid but one of the pathways for optimal energy production is blocked. Btw, are your FFA elevated or are you lowering them with things like niacinamide?

-I'm at about the 3&1/2 year mark at excluding PUFAs
and have been taking niacinamide throughout.

-guessing that while my recent PTH=41 lab is not great,
I bet it was higher before my recent dosings of 1500mg calcium carbonate/day

-Peat made the remark about "the activated for of vitamin D" in an interview,
and I'd have to look through my notes to figure out which one.
He generally went along with the idea that people are deficient in vitamin D
and should take some if they don't get much sun.
But he tends to just refer to it as "vitamin D" in the interview.
Assuming he means D3 by it?
I'd been under the impression D3 is the "activated form," but maybe I'm wrong about that.
In the interview he just mentioned
that he had seen studies raising some doubts about "the activated form" of vitamin D.
He didn't say that he agreed with those doubts--just noted the study and its doubts.

-suikerbuik put me on to some sources questioning the effects of high doses of vitamin D3.
Forgive me suik if I get this wrong,
but I think the researcher's name was Trevor Marshall
(http://gettingstronger.org/2012/11/why-i-dont-take-vitamin-d-supplements/)
I'd been taking 5,000-10,000 of vitamin D3 per day,
and it did seem to control the palpitations when I got them.
But it didn't get rid of them.
So I experimented by dropping all vitamin D3
except for the 300IU that comes in the Swanson Calcium Carbonate 500mg I've been taking--
that's the cholecalciferol form.

 

[haidut]

Haven't read about that view of Peat on vitamin AD but if you can find the link for me I'd appreciate it.
Palpitations from thyroid could be many things, including reverse T3 from too much T4 at once, not enough cholesterol and/or pregnenolone to support increased thyroid function, high PTH, high adrenalin, etc.
Maybe you can try taking 30mg - 50mg pregnenolone with your thyroid dos and see if that changes things. PTH can definitely use some lowering, at 41 it is not optimal. Calcium magnesium and zinc go well together, so if you take a lot of calcium make sure you ingest enough magnesium and zinc rich foods.
Other than that, it seems like you are stimulating the thyroid but one of the pathways for optimal energy production is blocked. Btw, are your FFA elevated or are you lowering them with things like niacinamide?

-I'm at about the 3&1/2 year mark at excluding PUFAs
and have been taking niacinamide throughout.

-guessing that while my recent PTH=41 lab is not great,
I bet it was higher before my recent dosings of 1500mg calcium carbonate/day

-Peat made the remark about "the activated for of vitamin D" in an interview,
and I'd have to look through my notes to figure out which one.
He generally went along with the idea that people are deficient in vitamin D
and should take some if they don't get much sun.
But he tends to just refer to it as "vitamin D" in the interview.
Assuming he means D3 by it?
I'd been under the impression D3 is the "activated form," but maybe I'm wrong about that.
In the interview he just mentioned
that he had seen studies raising some doubts about "the activated form" of vitamin D.
He didn't say that he agreed with those doubts--just noted the study and its doubts.

-suikerbuik put me on to some sources questioning the effects of high doses of vitamin D3.
Forgive me suik if I get this wrong,
but I think the researcher's name was Trevor Marshall
(http://gettingstronger.org/2012/11/why-i-dont-take-vitamin-d-supplements/)
I'd been taking 5,000-10,000 of vitamin D3 per day,
and it did seem to control the palpitations when I got them.
But it didn't get rid of them.
So I experimented by dropping all vitamin D3
except for the 300IU that comes in the Swanson Calcium Carbonate 500mg I've been taking--
that's the cholecalciferol form.

Cool, thanks.
Yeah, I also posted an epidemiological study showing that people with both the higher and lowest blood levels of vitamin D has the higher mortality. Optimal range for health seemed to be 30-45. Vitamin D3 is converted into calcitriol in the body. At least that's how the theory goes. If Peat has some studies showing this is not the case or calcitriol is not valualble in some way then I'd very interested in reading them. It would change 40 years of vitamin D research but knowing Peat I would not be surprised if that turned out to be the case.
I personally take 3,000 IU and always combine it with A, K, and E.