Tobacco Increases Serotonin Through MAO-A Inhibition?

[Xemnoraq]

So i’ve always been interested in the research and possible beneficial side to tobacco for medicinal or pro-metabolic purposes similar to caffeine, however, as many people are aware there are plenty of downsides to smoking.

From my own personal experience, i really enjoy tobacco alot, however i noticed ever since using it, i started getting horrible migranes which i had never had before, and my veins towards my head and forehead would buldge up and not circulate fully to the top, i would get huge brain congestion as Ray had called it before from what felt like serotonin syndrome or serotonin overload,

I also noticed when using or coming off of tobacco, i would have extreme serotonin symptoms,

For example i found myself extremely irritable, impatient, disconnected, and also just extremely nervous and defensive, i started developing patterns of horrible social anxiety.

And so based on the physical symptoms of bad circulation to my head and mood based symptoms it got me thinking about serotonin and tobacco.

I know so many other people who can smoke ridiculous amounts and never get such severe issues, my theory is they may have a much higher ability to produce progesterone, and progesterone raises MAO and lowers serotonin, and ultimately detoxes or staves off alot of bad stuff.

So this study examines the MAO-A levels in the brains of smokers and found they had signifigantly lower levels of MAO compared to non-smokers,

A deficiency of MAO has been characterized before as the warrior gene in people with very high serotonin,

Brain monoamine oxidase A inhibition in cigarette smokers

“Smokers had significantly lower brain MAO A than nonsmokers in all brain regions examined (average reduction, 28%). The mean λk3values for the whole brain were 0.18 ± 0.04 and 0.13 ± 0.03 ccbrain (mlplasma)−1 min−1 for nonsmokers and smokers, respectively; P < 0.0003). Tranylcypromine treatment reduced λk3 by an average of 58% for the different brain regions. Our results show that tobacco smoke exposure is associated with a marked reduction in brain MAO A, and this reduction is about half of that produced by a brief treatment with tranylcypromine.”

“MAO exists in two subtypes (MAO A and B) that are different gene products (8, 9). In the brain, MAO A oxidizes serotonin and norepinephrine and is found primarily in catecholaminergic neurons”

The unfortunate thing about the conductors of this study, is they still see serotonin as a good thing, and believe that a deficiency of MAO protects against depression thats where they mentioned SSRI’s being effective anti-depressants through this mechanism of MAO inhibition i believe, however we know all too well the horrible effects of SSRI’s.


My question now to everyone on here, DOES tobacco, technically act like an SSRI in some regards? Through the inhibition of MAO-A and B, resulting in increased levels of serotonin and adrenaline? Could tobacco cause serotonin syndrome like SRRI’s could?

These are things i definetly feel and experience with tobacco, and while it does have some great positive effects, whenever i quit i feel like i get serotonin syndrome from it, and progesterone seems to be very theraputic.

I’m not also trying to say that because this is my own personal experience it must be fact but it does line up with everything the study has to say about MAO and serotonin (despite their altered views on the subject)

I feel as though again the people who have a high resistance to these negatives who can smoke excessively, i would have to guess they are people who already have good ability to produce the protective hormones like progesterone which promote MAO etc.

If anybody has any knowledge on this specific area of area regarding tobacco and serotonin itd be nice to hear other peoples thoughts.

If anyone also has some interesting positives to share on tobacco that’d be interesting too, i know there’s plenty of studies showing it actually improves progesterone and DHEA synthesis, so not everthing is clear cut or black and white.

 

[michael94]

I found its like a stabilizer in the sense of "clearing some debris"? I think the natives used to/still use it as an antiparasite. Nicotine in agriculture is a pesticide.

 

[methylenewhite]

What kind of tobacco you are talking about? In case of industrial made cigarettes I would say it's carbon monoxide and combustion products of 599 known additives in used by cigarette industry.
List of additives in cigarettes - Wikipedia
Don't blame tobacco if it's full of toxic chemicals.

 

[methylenewhite]

serotonin syndrome

Serotonin syndrome is medical emergency, if you have serotonin syndrome you are on the way to ER fighting for your life. It's not something like migraine or "vein feeling".

 

[schultz]

What kind of tobacco you are talking about? In case of industrial made cigarettes I would say it's carbon monoxide and combustion products of 599 known additives in used by cigarette industry.
List of additives in cigarettes - Wikipedia
Don't blame tobacco if it's full of toxic chemicals.

Wow that is a huge list. Surely not all of them are used at once? I'm trying to figure out how they would even use all of those ingredients and what the point is. Some of them make sense, like adding clove as a flavouring agent, or licorice root, but what's the point of adding acetic acid or ammonia? I am confused... Maybe a lot of those ingredients are not things they physically add? Although "ingredient" would be a misnomer.

Some of them are hilarious, like "apple juice, extract and skins". I guess they had a bunch of apple skins lying around and had nothing they could do with them so they put them in cigarettes?

Edit: I guess there is a reason for ammonia to be added

What Does Ammonia in Cigarettes Do?

 

[Anders86]

Serotonin syndrome is medical emergency, if you have serotonin syndrome you are on the way to ER fighting for your life. It's not something like migraine or "vein feeling".

I would guess he notice that he has more more brain serotonin, as his mindset is compromised. And I guess you could call it a serotonin syndrome? A "smaller" serotonin re-bounce period.

 

[methylenewhite]

I would guess he notice that he has more more brain serotonin, as his mindset is compromised. And I guess you could call it a serotonin syndrome? A "smaller" serotonin re-bounce period.

No you cant. Serotonin syndrome is officially recognized medical emergency. Calling those feelings the OP has a serotonin syndrome is confusing.

PS. In case my opinion is not very convincing to you.
Methylene Blue Induced Serotonin Syndrome At 400mcg Dose

 

[methylenewhite]

Some of them are hilarious, like "apple juice, extract and skins". I guess they had a bunch of apple skins lying around and had nothing they could do with them so they put them in cigarettes?

I think the don't follow this logic. Everything they use is used for a reason of maximizing profits.

 

[schultz]

I think the don't follow this logic. Everything they use is used for a reason of maximizing profits.

Well that would maximize profits. Adding apple skins would reduce the amount of tobacco needed and apple skins are probably free (especially if they own a company that makes apple juice).

 

[methylenewhite]

Well that would maximize profits. Adding apple skins would reduce the amount of tobacco needed and apple skins are probably free (especially if they own a company that makes apple juice).

You are right.

 

[schultz]

You are right.

Finally I am right about something! I knew this day would come

 

[Anders86]

No you cant. Serotonin syndrome is officially recognized medical emergency. Calling those feelings the OP has a serotonin syndrome is confusing.

PS. In case my opinion is not very convincing to you.
Methylene Blue Induced Serotonin Syndrome At 400mcg Dose

Ok. I see.

 

[Frankdee20]

Tobacco and specifically Nicotine mostly target Nicotinic Acetylcholine receptors and then indirectly Dopamine.

 

[aguineapig]

Adrenaline can also be implicated in migraine. Hence the use of beta blockers to treat them. It's more likely that tobacco is implicated for you via that pathway.

The irritability/agression etc is probably just withdrawal symptoms. These are going to vary in severity depending on the doses and on the individual and the environment they're in.

There is some evidence that tobacco increases/is correlated with SERT, or just encourages reuptake (opposite of SSRI). Not much material on it and requires a lot of inferring.

 

[aguineapig]

Working MAO inhibition keep dopamine levels elevated as well, as an aside?

 

[Xemnoraq]

Yeah its all confusing because there seems to be so many benefits to tobacco sort of like an adaptogen, like caffeine, its just hard to distinguish sometimes between where the negatives are coming from, even with pure tobacco, it contains high levels of heavy metals aparently just because of pollution etc. Peat seems to have mixed feelings on tobacco but i dont think he's against it, and acetylcholine is aparently bad to promote because it increases catacholamines from what i understand but im not too well versed in that area, but some information mentioned the vasoconstriction was partly due to the actions of acetylcholine,

It would be interesting explore how much anti-serotonin vs pro-serotonin capabilities tobacco has by looking into things like the MAO inhibition

 

[Xemnoraq]

Im also somewhat sold onthe idea that tobacco has some very pro-metabolic properties,we know it lowers TSH, it just seems strange that the government posts this excessive propoganda about it because its like since when did the government start caring about our health? They dont want us to i gest toxins from cigarettes but they fine with littering our entire food supply with carcinogens like carageenan etc.

Im not sold on the idea that tobacco is all bad more so industrialized tobacco,

But most of the articles and studies say its the alkaloids in the tobbaco plant thar have the MAO inhibiting properties suggesting its not just cigarettes ddoing this, but itd be nice to find a wayto clear the fog in that area to understand how tobacco affects serotonin, ive seen people share some studies on here saying it lowers it, then i recall Georgi saying something about it raising it and thats why people naturally have coffee with cigarettes but i dont 100% remember so i dont want to put words in his mouth but it was from a podcast with him and Danny Roddy

 

[kyle]

If quitting slows down digestion, the symptoms could be endotoxin.

 

[Kingpinguin]

So i’ve always been interested in the research and possible beneficial side to tobacco for medicinal or pro-metabolic purposes similar to caffeine, however, as many people are aware there are plenty of downsides to smoking.

From my own personal experience, i really enjoy tobacco alot, however i noticed ever since using it, i started getting horrible migranes which i had never had before, and my veins towards my head and forehead would buldge up and not circulate fully to the top, i would get huge brain congestion as Ray had called it before from what felt like serotonin syndrome or serotonin overload,

I also noticed when using or coming off of tobacco, i would have extreme serotonin symptoms,

For example i found myself extremely irritable, impatient, disconnected, and also just extremely nervous and defensive, i started developing patterns of horrible social anxiety.

And so based on the physical symptoms of bad circulation to my head and mood based symptoms it got me thinking about serotonin and tobacco.

I know so many other people who can smoke ridiculous amounts and never get such severe issues, my theory is they may have a much higher ability to produce progesterone, and progesterone raises MAO and lowers serotonin, and ultimately detoxes or staves off alot of bad stuff.

So this study examines the MAO-A levels in the brains of smokers and found they had signifigantly lower levels of MAO compared to non-smokers,

A deficiency of MAO has been characterized before as the warrior gene in people with very high serotonin,

Brain monoamine oxidase A inhibition in cigarette smokers

“Smokers had significantly lower brain MAO A than nonsmokers in all brain regions examined (average reduction, 28%). The mean λk3values for the whole brain were 0.18 ± 0.04 and 0.13 ± 0.03 ccbrain (mlplasma)−1 min−1 for nonsmokers and smokers, respectively; P < 0.0003). Tranylcypromine treatment reduced λk3 by an average of 58% for the different brain regions. Our results show that tobacco smoke exposure is associated with a marked reduction in brain MAO A, and this reduction is about half of that produced by a brief treatment with tranylcypromine.”

“MAO exists in two subtypes (MAO A and B) that are different gene products (8, 9). In the brain, MAO A oxidizes serotonin and norepinephrine and is found primarily in catecholaminergic neurons”

The unfortunate thing about the conductors of this study, is they still see serotonin as a good thing, and believe that a deficiency of MAO protects against depression thats where they mentioned SSRI’s being effective anti-depressants through this mechanism of MAO inhibition i believe, however we know all too well the horrible effects of SSRI’s.


My question now to everyone on here, DOES tobacco, technically act like an SSRI in some regards? Through the inhibition of MAO-A and B, resulting in increased levels of serotonin and adrenaline? Could tobacco cause serotonin syndrome like SRRI’s could?

These are things i definetly feel and experience with tobacco, and while it does have some great positive effects, whenever i quit i feel like i get serotonin syndrome from it, and progesterone seems to be very theraputic.

I’m not also trying to say that because this is my own personal experience it must be fact but it does line up with everything the study has to say about MAO and serotonin (despite their altered views on the subject)

I feel as though again the people who have a high resistance to these negatives who can smoke excessively, i would have to guess they are people who already have good ability to produce the protective hormones like progesterone which promote MAO etc.

If anybody has any knowledge on this specific area of area regarding tobacco and serotonin itd be nice to hear other peoples thoughts.

If anyone also has some interesting positives to share on tobacco that’d be interesting too, i know there’s plenty of studies showing it actually improves progesterone and DHEA synthesis, so not everthing is clear cut or black and white.

I enjoy tobaco use from time to time but if over done i can clearly tell that it has a serotonergic effect on my brain. Makes me agitated, inhibits libido, muscle weakness and lack of motivation, restlessness...

 

[Kingpinguin]

Working MAO inhibition keep dopamine levels elevated as well, as an aside?

drugs have different affinity for MAO A and B.
Besides probably other mechanics in regards to tobaco that affects neurotransmitters levels. MAO A is only one. Usually MAO A inhibitors also tend to inhibit reuptake. Aswell.