To Lower Cholesterol, T3 Only? Or T3+T4?

[ddjd]

My cholesterol is 255
LDL is 213
Cholesterol to HDL ratio is 6.2

I'm concerned about CVD, I'm only 30.

@haidut would you recommend tyromix or tynomel, as in is just T3 better?

 

[Lurker]

There is no magic potion that will fix your concerns. Besides, cholesterol is not the problem as it is protective. Cholesterol can swing hugely throughout the day and those little finger prick tests can be higher that getting an actual blood draw (at least in my experience.) Do you have a steady pattern of high cholesterol over a period of years or any family history of CVD?

What makes you think you're hypothyroid? There there are a lot of other factors that influence cholesterol such as inflammation or even vitamin A. What are your other known health markers and what are the results? How are your lifestyle factors like diet, sleep, excercise and stress? What else are you currently taking?

 

[Apollos]

Assuming your testosterone and Libido are good I'd reduce saturated fat and cholesterol or cut it out all together and eat ultra low fat. Focus on fruits, veggies and well cooked starches and eat only the rock bottom minimum fat needed for fat soluble vitamins. I never got the impression high fat is required for Ray Peat style eating just low to no PUFA. Orange juice also raises cholesterol so I'd stick to whole foods for fructose sources vs juice. Exception being Pom granite juice which lowers LDL, Raises HDL, reduces arterial plaque, and increases testosterone. Win/Win/Win there. For a direct answer T3 seems to have a more profound cholesterol lowering effect but I think that depends on if your T4 to T3 conversion is good. Or you could ignore the links between cholesterol/saturated fat and heart disease and risk your life with the large fluffy LDL / high cholesterol is good line of thinking.

 

[artlange]

Ray Peat has written several papers and gave many interviews on KMUD and other stations. If you read for yourself, and not listen to possibly ignorant people on the web, you will probably have a better overall experience. That said, I self-medicated with dessicated thyroid in morning and evening because I had low metabolism with a slow HR, low body temp and often cold hands. Now my HR is raised slightly as is my body temp. And no more cold hands.

Ray mentioned in one of his interviews that in the past, low thyroid was diagnosed by high cholesterol. T3 supplement is used up very quickly and it is not good to take high doses at one time, because it does not stick around. T4 slowly converts in the liver into T3, so you get an appropriate amount throughout the day. the T3/T4 twice a day is way more convenient than a little T3 every few hours. If you are going to does yourself, you might learn how to measure the effect of thyroid on your body so you can get to an appropriate level. (hint: measure HR and temperature) It might take two weeks to find the correct dose as T4 is slowly increased.

 

[NathanK]

I've tried thyroid and it's had no difference in my cholesterol (my TSH and thyroid labs have always been pretty respectable though so I don't think I've ever really needed it). As a matter of fact I think I've tried everything over the past 9 years when I was first tested at 30 with a total C at 268 (taurine was the only substance that ever made a dent), but I had your same concerns. Going Paleo and then low carb eventually saw my total slowly creep up to near 300. My LDL, also pretty high, moves concurrently with my TC. 3 and a half years ago I started Peating and adding sugar back into my diet and started getting the lowest numbers I had seen since I was 22 (the next time I tested was that time when I was 30) and had since plateaued between 238-245 even though I had gained 20 pounds during that time. Coincidentally, my fasting blood glucose dropped from high 90s to ~85 as well. Now recently I've pieced together something quite striking.

There was one confounding lab back in 2011 where my TC dropped miraculously to 171 and my LDL shockingly just over range. Those labs 6 months later went right back to the high 200s. I could never understand that anomaly (I even thought they may have mixed up vials in the lab), but after reading Rays article on altitude and then listening to the KMUD podcast on the same subject, I began to piece together a theory that the aberration was from the trips I made to New Mexico over 5000 feet a couple months prior. Ray stated in one of those sources that it doesn't take long for the increased CO2 from being in high altitude to change your physiology. I have since seen a paper or article somewhere confirming that it only 2 weeks at high altitude changes you physiology dramatically. I was only in NM for a cumulative week though.

Well, today I got my most recent labs back and my total cholesterol dropped to 216 and LDL dropped concurrently. That was completely unexpected, but it is one step closer to my CO2-cholesterol theory. The 3 biggest changes since my last lab in Feb were that I had cut some calories and lost about 15lbs, had been taking about 5 grams of baking soda per day for dental, kidney, and gut antifungal purposes, and, what I believe made the biggest difference, was wearing a 3M surgical mask a couple times a day for up to an hour at a time (typically while working on a computer). I'd tried baking soda with great success in multiple areas in the past, but saw no correlation with cholesterol--not that I was looking for one. Cumulatively, the increased CO2 from the baking soda and rebreathing my own CO2 I think thus far was the difference. My CO2 lab also increased to a level I hadn't seen in a while either. I will feel more confident with my next labs, but Ray is consistent that his #1 health tip is to increase CO2.

Btw, this was after only maybe two weeks experimenting with these prior. Another note that seems to be corollary is in both cases of CO2 increase before labs, my HDL also dropped into the 20s. This was my first lab in a while that I didn't test any protective steroids along with my lipids and chemistry panel, so next time I want to see if I am not just artificially lowering cholesterol, but also increasing cholesterol to hormone conversion.

 

[Dan W]

There was one confounding lab back in 2011 where my TC dropped miraculously to 171 and my LDL shockingly just over range. Those labs 6 months later went right back to the high 200s.

That's eerily similar to my labs, I'd even wondered the same thing about the possibility of a blood vial mixup:

I'd theorized it was some kind of initial adaptation to thyroid, but you're making me wonder if it was due to my inconsistent bag-breathing habits. I'll definitely keep an eye out for a connection now.

 

[artlange]

Danny Roddy and Haidut talk about cholesterol and other topics.

one of the items discussed, those with high cholesterol live longer than those with low cholesterol.

 

[NathanK]

That's eerily similar to my labs, I'd even wondered the same thing about the possibility of a blood vial mixup:

I'd theorized it was some kind of initial adaptation to thyroid, but you're making me wonder if it was due to my inconsistent bag-breathing habits. I'll definitely keep an eye out for a connection now.

That is interesting. Have you tried the facemask stuff yet? I found it much more convenient than actively trying to bag breath

 

[jitsmonkey]

That is interesting. Have you tried the facemask stuff yet? I found it much more convenient than actively trying to bag breath

What do you mean "facemask stuff"
I benefit greatly from bag breathing but it is annoying
curious about another option

 

[Lurker]

Training Mask ® | Fitness and Performance Breathing Devices

If you want to go for the Bane look at the gym.

 

[Mito]

My cholesterol is 255
LDL is 213
Cholesterol to HDL ratio is 6.2
I'm concerned about CVD, I'm only 30.

You might find this interesting.

 

[lollipop]

Training Mask ® | Fitness and Performance Breathing Devices

If you want to go for the Bane look at the gym.

Very Cool device @Lurker. On my list.

 

[Dan W]

Have you tried the facemask stuff yet? I found it much more convenient than actively trying to bag breath

What do you mean "facemask stuff"
I benefit greatly from bag breathing but it is annoying

I've gotten similar (I think) convenience with "bottle breathing". Some related discussions:
So Called 'Elevation Masks' Suitable For CO2 Increase?
Surgical Masks Increase Pulse, Lower Oxygen Saturation From Rebreathing CO2

 

[NathanK]

What do you mean "facemask stuff"
I benefit greatly from bag breathing but it is annoying
curious about another option

This is what I meant. The simple cheap ones you buy at hardware stores: Surgical Masks Increase Pulse, Lower Oxygen Saturation From Rebreathing CO2

The "Bane" looking ones mentioned Im not so sure of and are overpriced for just increasing CO2

 

[jitsmonkey]

This is what I meant. The simple cheap ones you buy at hardware stores: Surgical Masks Increase Pulse, Lower Oxygen Saturation From Rebreathing CO2

The "Bane" looking ones mentioned Im not so sure of and are overpriced for just increasing CO2

Thank you @NathanK

 

[NathanK]

Thank you @NathanK

Your welcome.

@Dan Wich Just watching the Chris Masterjohn video reminded me of some pretty important variables I'd forgotten. A few weeks prior to my labs I started eating a cup of oatmeal for breakfast (with protien, ceylon cinnemon, berries, honey, and a pinch of salt), which increased my fiber intake. I had also tried to make a concerted effort to lower my fat intake a little more to help with the weight loss. It may have been the oatmeal as much as anything since it says right on the container the AHA recommends specifically for lowering cholesterol :)

 

[Mossy]

...had been taking about 5 grams of baking soda per day for dental, kidney, and gut antifungal purposes...

It seems you've stopped taking the baking soda -- if so, why was that? I'm interested in learning more about using baking soda for CO2, and would be interested to know how and when you took it. I have read that it can affect your digestion, and potentially alkalize you. Any info would be appreciated.

 

[ddjd]

Exception being Pom granite juice which lowers LDL, Raises HDL, reduces arterial plaque, and increases testosterone.

but estrogenic no?

 

[ddjd]

I have read that it can affect your digestion, and potentially alkalize you.

peat says just take between meals