Help Lowering Cholesterol W/o Drugs- Labs Incl

[Philomath]

This is for my wife who just recently went to gyno and got lab results showing high cholesterol. He wants her to go on statins, naturally, but she told him she wanted to try natural methods first. Of course he wants her on fish oil (2000 mg daily for 2-3 months Interestingly, I don't think the Dr. asked or cared if she was feeling well. He just read the ATP-III Guidelines from her lab and said she's at risk.

I've seen some great recommendations on the forum for using things like Vit E, Magnesium and Taurine and others pointing out higher Cholesterol numbers are not necessary a bad thing. So Let me throw out some labs and please help me look for other considerations

AGE 47 Female - Ovaries intact - slightly overweight (10-15lbs, 1/2 coming after Peating) - no major health issues in past several years. Blood drawn 14 days after end of period

Total Cholesterol: 250 [/u]
Triglicerides: 166
HDL: 77
LDL: 140 mg/dL - high
TSH: 3.650 (obviously high)
T4 thyroxine: 8.2 ug/dl - average
T3 uptake: 23 - low
T3: 120 ng/dL - low side but in average
Free thyroxine index: 1.9
Free T4: 1.04
Thyroid Peroxidase: <6
Thyoglobulin antibody: <1.0
Progesterone: 1.1 ng/mL
C Reactive Protein: 0.31 - low
FSH, Serum: 15.7
Estradiol: 56.7 pg/ml
Vitamin D: 22.8 (low)
C02: 24 mmol/L average
Serum Sodium: 139 mmol/L - average
Serum Potassium: 4.2 - average
Serum Chloride: 98 - average/low
Serum Glucose: 88 -average
B12: 615 pg/mL average
Serum Calcium : 5.3 mg/dL high average

I'm getting her to take Progest-e regularly. I could use recommendations/thoughts on how to take thyroid (if necessary) and amounts of magnesium.

Thank you ALL!

 

[marcar72]

Here's a link to a discussion about coconut oil's supposed ability to lower cholesterol...

http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5791

 

[mujuro]

My mum has had cholesterol problems for a few years now. I told her to eat more real butter, which she started to do by eating a handful of rice crackers daily and dipping them into some softened butter. She was very happy with her latest blood results.

 

[Blossom]

Good thyroid function is supposed to help normalize cholesterol too. I don't necessarily believe the lab values of normal are always what is optimal. There's a lot of controversy as you probably know around those numbers and back in the 1970's the medically acceptable normal range was much higher than it is today probably in part because of the development of statins and the need to create lifelong customers for those meds. I think she is wise to consider other options!

 

[tara]

My understanding has been that statins may reduce cholesterol, but for women in particular there is little evidence that they reduce mortality, even amongst women with previously diagnosed CHD. The cholesterol level seems a little high, but nothing extreme.

Looks like thyroid is low, and this could cause higher cholesterol. I have no experience with thyroid supplements other than chicken neck soup, but from reading here I have thoughts. Others may well be better informed.

Before adding thyroid supp, I'd check and address if needed:
* The diet is meeting nutrient needs - carbs, protein, vitamins, minerals, is low on anti-thyroid substances like PUFA and coleslaw, and that there is some good fibre picking up and reducing the burden of endotoxins and estrogen. As marcar suggested, include coconut oil if not already.
* Sunlight and/or extra red light is adequate
* Breathing is not excessive - eg nasal and diaphragmatic including while sleeping.

Here's from Haidut recently on magnesium and cholesterol/statins:

Here are the studies. I think the 400mg RDA daily dose is plenty since about 5 years ago (way before Peating) I was asked by the doctor to lower cholesterol and I found out about magnesium. When I took 400mg plain magnesium oxide for 2 weeks my total cholesterol went down from 228 to 162. The doctor said he is certain I am taking off-label drug of some sorts but then agreed that magnesium would have that effect after seeing the studies. So now, before prescribing a drug to his patients he sends me an email asking "hey, do you know of a natural substance that has been shown in a study to work like drug X"
I think his other patients are asking more and more for alternatives to poisons like statins and beta blockers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15466951

"...Mg has effects that parallel those of statins. For example, the enzyme that deactivates HMG-CoA Reductase requires Mg, making Mg a Reductase controller rather than inhibitor. Mg is also necessary for the activity of lecithin cholesterol acyl transferase (LCAT), which lowers LDL-C and triglyceride levels and raises HDL-C levels. Desaturase is another Mg-dependent enzyme involved in lipid metabolism which statins do not directly affect. Desaturase catalyzes the first step in conversion of essential fatty acids (omega-3 linoleic acid and omega-6 linolenic acid) into prostaglandins, important in cardiovascular and overall health. Mg at optimal cellular concentration is well accepted as a natural calcium channel blocker. More recent work shows that Mg also acts as a statin."

http://www.rejuvenation-science.com/n_m ... atins.html

"...A review published in the October 2004 issue of the Journal of the American College of Nutrition has found that the beneficial effects of magnesium could outweigh those of statin drugs. Statins are a class of drugs commonly prescribed for individuals with elevated cholesterol levels, a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Because the statin drugs have side effects, some people are seeking alternative ways to improve their cardiovascular disease risk."

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3480&p=67934#p67934

If she chooses to try supplementing NDT, the safest way seems to be to approach an optimal dosage very slowly from below, because T4 has a long half life and if you get too much it seems to get complicated for people to adjust. Here's what I wrote recently:

The cautious approach to dosing that I have seen for NDT, is:
Start with 1/4 grain/day.
Monitor temps and pulse for 3-4 weeks.
If the temps do not come up to about 98 deg F after 3-4 weeks, increase by a 1/4 grain/day.
Repeat till temps are up.
The advantage of this very slow cautious approach is that it much reduces the chances of overshooting the appropriate dose, with the complications and potential suffering this may entail.

The approach Peat seems to suggest is to use tiny doses of separate T3 throughout the day, to figure out dosage, and then to keep using a little T3 through day along with the appropriate amount of T4 or mixed T3-T4 at night. I haven't yet learned how you calculate the latter from the former. The advantage of this method is that you get a much quicker response from T3, because it has a short half life.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5525&hilit=RT3&start=60#p67389
A healthy body produces 3-4mcg T3 /hr, and it has short half life of a few hours, so doses of approximately 1-2 mcg every 2-3 hours can be expected to make a difference, and taking a whole 25mcg tablet could be way more than needed
There are other threads discussing dosing too.

 

[Philomath]

Thank you!
I read that women can take progesterone seperately and should consider thyroid if excessive doses don't yield results.
"and if estrogen is extremely high, even large supplements of progesterone will have no clear effect; in that case, it is essential to regulate estrogen metabolism, by improving the diet, correcting a thyroid deficiency, etc." RP- progesterone summaries

Should she continue with progesterone or stop and use thyroid first?

 

[tara]

I don't think I am qualified to advise. What else has she tried so far?

My reading of Peat is that the risk of starting with progest-e when there is a significant goiter too is that when the progesterone interrupts the estrogen excess that has been inhibiting the thyroid from releasing thyroid hormones, a lot of thyroid hormone that has been stored up can be released much more quickly than usual, causing a hyperthyroid state.
Can you tell if there is a goiter?
If your wife has already been using progeste-e for a while, depending on the dose, she may already be past this risk - ie if it were going to happen, maybe it would have by now? What effects did the progest-e have for her? Using how much? If it seems helpful and is not causing problems, I don't know that she should stop. Aguilaroja, who I think is much more experienced, mentioned he had concerns about prolonged high dosing of progest-e, but I'm not sure exactly what the problem would be.
I am also not aware of there being a problem with supplementing both progest-e and thyroid at appropriate (personal) doses if both are needed. Quite a lot of people seem to get into trouble trying to find an appropriate dose of thyroid, which is why I think starting low and slow would be wise.

I have had TSH readings above 2 but not above 3. I have not found a way to access thyroid supps other than NWT from TOK. I have been using progest-e for more than a year - I can tell that it helps when I take it, but it as not solved my problems.

 

[Philomath]

She does not have a goiter, thankfully. She's been restricting PUFA and eating Peatishly for about a year. She won't touch liver but she does eat shell fish occasionally. She probably eats couple eggs a day but likely does not get enough protein.
She has taken progesterone before, but not much and not for very long - not enough for a track record. Interestingly, she had some magnesium carbonate with breakfast, leftover jambalaya today for lunch, then had three drops of progesterone along with 3000 mg Vitamin D. She took her temps after eating and supplementing and it was at 97.5 degrees. I gave her an Anacin (400mg aspirin/30mg caffeine) and a short time after her temp went up to 99 degrees.
I'm inclined to recommend she continue with the magnesium/vitamin D/progesterone stack every few hours along with aspirin to see if the temps & pulse remain at good levels. I may also suggest she add Taurine and vitamin E to the mix too. If Thyroid is necessary, perhaps starting small doses before bed? If not before bed, then maybe a 1/4 grain dose of Cynoplus in the morning?

 

[tara]

Good that the PUFAs have been low for a while, and good that there is no goiter.

I would not recommend supplementing thyroid without adequate nutrition - including at least 80-100g protein, and plenty of carbs. Not getting enough good quality protein is one of the key things Peat has pin-pointed amongst the causes of low metabolism and high estrogen. Supplementing thyroid could just end up causing more stress. I

Magnesium and vit D and progest-e sound like a reasonable idea. 3 drops of progest-e is a reasonable dose, which is ok to repeat after a few hours. I think Vit-D is fat soluble and has a long enough half life that you don't have to supply it every few hours - once a day should be plenty. Vitamin E sounds reasonable. If mag carb works, that's good. If 400mg magnesium from mag carbonate passes through her system too fast, so to speak, she can try other forms - there's a fairly recent thread with ideas.

 

[Philomath]

Here's a link to a discussion about coconut oil's supposed ability to lower cholesterol...

http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5791

Interesting, Thanks!

 

[sweetpeat]

I would echo everything Tara has said. Definitely get the nutrition on solid footing before attempting thyroid supplementation, if it ends up even being necessary. I’m wondering about your wife’s vitamin A status. The body uses vitamin A, along with t3, to synthesize the steroid hormones. If she won’t eat liver, does she have another good source of vitamin A? Too much vitamin D without A will make things more out of balance.

Before supplementing thyroid, the liver should also be able to store glycogen. Does she seem to have good glycogen storage? Not waking up hungry in the middle of the night or anything like that? Liver function is especially important for females because of the extra estrogen load. Giving her anything with t4 when she has a sluggish liver could make things worse. I’m speaking from experience here. I’m not saying don’t do it – just approach with caution. Address all of the nutritional deficiencies first and then see where things stand.

 

[Lin]

It's interesting how different doctors react to cholesterol numbers. Four years ago, I had a total cholesterol of 265, and my doctor did NOT recommend statins, because she used the Framingham Risk Calculator http://cvdrisk.nhlbi.nih.gov/ Maybe your doctor would consider looking at it.
I know doctors are under a lot of pressure to prescribe statins, at least in the US. They are the "standard of care." I used to work in a facility that, if a patient had a cholesterol over 200, the computer would shoot out a letter, to their doctor, recommending statins. And, of course, the drug company reps put a hard sell on them.
I have been trying to follow Peat recommendations now, for about a year and a half. I do take magnesium, and NDT. And vit D. Taking thyroid made a big difference in helping me feel better. I couldn't handle Progest-E (headaches) But, I am postmenopausal.
Total cholesterol. last month, 210. Some doctors would say that is still not good... I think it is fine!

 

[haidut]

Since taurine and glycine also lower cholesterol (through different mechanisms) taking magnesium taurate or magnesium glycinate (for a total of 400mg elemental magnesium daily) should work even better. Taking that with coffee, which also lowers cholesterol, will increase the effect even further. Takes about 2 weeks to see big effect but cholesterol starts dropping after 2 days.

 

[Blossom]

It's interesting how different doctors react to cholesterol numbers. Four years ago, I had a total cholesterol of 265, and my doctor did NOT recommend statins, because she used the Framingham Risk Calculator http://cvdrisk.nhlbi.nih.gov/ Maybe your doctor would consider looking at it.
I know doctors are under a lot of pressure to prescribe statins, at least in the US. They are the "standard of care." I used to work in a facility that, if a patient had a cholesterol over 200, the computer would shoot out a letter, to their doctor, recommending statins. And, of course, the drug company reps put a hard sell on them.
I have been trying to follow Peat recommendations now, for about a year and a half. I do take magnesium, and NDT. And vit D. Taking thyroid made a big difference in helping me feel better. I couldn't handle Progest-E (headaches) But, I am postmenopausal.
Total cholesterol. last month, 210. Some doctors would say that is still not good... I think it is fine!

I can't tell you how touched I am that you shared that story here. I'm so pleased to hear you received thoughtful care and were not pressured to take statins Lin.

 

[burtlancast]

I believe taking care of that 3.6 TSH is a way, way more urgent problem than the 250 cholesterol ( which will naturally go down as the TSH goes down too).

 

[Lin]

Thank you, Blossom, I think a lot of people have doctors who follow the mainline thinking about cholesterol numbers, and want to treat the numbers instead of the person. Maybe the Framingham calculator would help them have something they can show their doctors to help justify not taking the drug. I was lucky to find such a reasonable doctor!
I'm not sure if it was the supplemental thyroid or the magnesium that would have caused the cholesterol drop. Maybe both. I certainly have increased my intake of saturated fat!

 

[Blossom]

Thank you, Blossom, I think a lot of people have doctors who follow the mainline thinking about cholesterol numbers, and want to treat the numbers instead of the person. Maybe the Framingham calculator would help them have something they can show their doctors to help justify not taking the drug. I was lucky to find such a reasonable doctor!
I'm not sure if it was the supplemental thyroid or the magnesium that would have caused the cholesterol drop. Maybe both. I certainly have increased my intake of saturated fat!

You rock! Thanks for sharing the calculator too.

 

[burtlancast]

AGE 47 Female - Ovaries intact - slightly overweight (10-15lbs, 1/2 coming after Peating) - no major health issues in past several years. Blood drawn 14 days after end of period

Total Cholesterol: 250 [/u]

She's right were she should be:

A study of old women indicated that a cholesterol level of 270 mg. per 100 ml. was associated with the best longevity (Forette, et al., 1989). "Mortality was lowest at serum cholesterol 7.0 mmol/l [=270.6 mg%], 5.2 times higher than the minimum at serum cholesterol 4.0 mmol/l, and only 1.8 times higher when cholesterol concentration was 8.8 mmol/l. This relation held true irrespective of age, even when blood pressure, body weight, history of myocardial infarction, creatinine clearance, and plasma proteins were taken into account."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ch ... vity.shtml

 

[LucyL]

Thank you!
I read that women can take progesterone seperately and should consider thyroid if excessive doses don't yield results.
"and if estrogen is extremely high, even large supplements of progesterone will have no clear effect; in that case, it is essential to regulate estrogen metabolism, by improving the diet, correcting a thyroid deficiency, etc." RP- progesterone summaries

Should she continue with progesterone or stop and use thyroid first?

My interpretation of Peat is 1)cholesterol 2) thyroid 3) progesterone meaning first the cholesterol must be high enough for thyroid supplementation to even be helpful and the thyroid must be functioning adequately for the progesterone to be helpful.

 

[Philomath]

AGE 47 Female - Ovaries intact - slightly overweight (10-15lbs, 1/2 coming after Peating) - no major health issues in past several years. Blood drawn 14 days after end of period

Total Cholesterol: 250 [/u]

She's right were she should be:

A study of old women indicated that a cholesterol level of 270 mg. per 100 ml. was associated with the best longevity (Forette, et al., 1989). "Mortality was lowest at serum cholesterol 7.0 mmol/l [=270.6 mg%], 5.2 times higher than the minimum at serum cholesterol 4.0 mmol/l, and only 1.8 times higher when cholesterol concentration was 8.8 mmol/l. This relation held true irrespective of age, even when blood pressure, body weight, history of myocardial infarction, creatinine clearance, and plasma proteins were taken into account."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ch ... vity.shtml

Thanks for the data - it will be useful when fending off her doctor. I thought doctors were supposed to be healers , not fear mongerers.