Terribly Painful Period Pains(dysmenorrhoea):(

[Jac]

My wife(31 years old) has been diagnosed with primary dysmenorrhea from which she has suffered with since puberty. Last year, she had a laparascopy to rule out endometriosis and the diagnosis were inconclusive. She has suffered with hormonal imbalances since her teen years, but through diet, exercise and certain supplements she has managed to reduce the pain but we have never been able to make it go away completely. She still suffers with debilitating period pain and all symptoms seem to indicate low progesterone, even though previous blood tests showed normal results. For 2 days of the month she has to call in sick for work because she can barely get out of bed. She has tried Vitex for months as well as 2 drops of Pansterone. These seemed to have helped a bit but still not completely balance her hormones as she still struggles with the dysmenorrhea. There are also other symptoms that suggest low progesterone but I don’t want to take too much of your time with a long health history. Do you think she should take your progestene instead? Are there any blood tests that you could recommend for her when she sees the Dr next week. My wife will get blood tests done again next week to try and figure out what hormones are out of balance. Any recommendations on what to check for?

Any advice or tips or feedback would be much appreciated. Thank you very much.

 

[PakPik]

Hi Jac, sorry that your wife has been experiencing period pain so bad. I think you may be interested in this thread: Anyone Taking Progesterone During Their Cycle?
If she has a high proportion of PUFA in her tissues that may be contributing to her problem as well. PUFAs generate prostaglandins, which have a lot to do with menstrual cramping (many of the effective cramp remedies/fixes seem to act partly by blocking or opposing prostaglandins). PUFAs can also boost estrogen production and/or effects.

 

[Koveras]

My wife(31 years old) has been diagnosed with primary dysmenorrhea from which she has suffered with since puberty. Last year, she had a laparascopy to rule out endometriosis and the diagnosis were inconclusive. She has suffered with hormonal imbalances since her teen years, but through diet, exercise and certain supplements she has managed to reduce the pain but we have never been able to make it go away completely. She still suffers with debilitating period pain and all symptoms seem to indicate low progesterone, even though previous blood tests showed normal results. For 2 days of the month she has to call in sick for work because she can barely get out of bed. She has tried Vitex for months as well as 2 drops of Pansterone. These seemed to have helped a bit but still not completely balance her hormones as she still struggles with the dysmenorrhea. There are also other symptoms that suggest low progesterone but I don’t want to take too much of your time with a long health history. Do you think she should take your progestene instead? Are there any blood tests that you could recommend for her when she sees the Dr next week. My wife will get blood tests done again next week to try and figure out what hormones are out of balance. Any recommendations on what to check for?

Any advice or tips or feedback would be much appreciated. Thank you very much.

These resources might be useful

SOS for PMS – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Quotes: Thyroid, Estrogen, Menstrual Symptoms, PMS, and Infertility – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Ray Peat, PhD on the Menstrual Cycle – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Peatarian.com Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

From the RP Wiki:

Cramps
"It [PROGEST-E] can help with cramps, but it would probably take a lot; I think it's better to use thyroid (including T3) to solve the basic problem, since it will let you regulate the balance between estrogen and progesterone, while allowing your cells to balance the minerals, retaining the magnesium needed to prevent cramping. Increasing your intake of all the main minerals, calcium, sodium, potassium, and magnesium usually helps in the short term, but the balance isn't stable if your thyroid is low. Milk, orange juice, coffee (even decaffeinated coffee is a good source of magnesium), and well salted foods, support thyroid functions. Aspirin helps with thyroid function and mineral balance, even helps to prevent excessive estrogen production."

PMS (Premenstrual Syndrome)
"Premenstrual stress suggests that the thyroid function is low, at least during that time. Do you eat liver and shell fish occasionally? The trace nutrients in those sometimes make a difference."

 

[whodathunkit]

@Jac, your wife sounds just like me when I was her age. I would literally scream in pain the cramps were so bad. I didn't have endometriosis, either, although I had (still have) uterine fibroids. I think now the problem due to adhesions and fibroisis in the entire abdominal cavity. My thinking now is that because everything is stuck together, peristaltic movement as well as the minor uterine contractions can pull on each other. If you add into that a high level of inflammation from estrogen and serotonin (which cause fibrosis) and endotoxin (may cause fibrosis), you get hyper peristaltic movement (from the serotonin and inflammation in the gut) and hyper uterine contractions (from high estrogen), which ultimately causes screaming pain.

I can't prove this but it's a theory based on what I've read and experienced.

What helped me most at her stage was saw palmetto. I know it's not ideal and a lot of people don't like it, but I tried it years ago when it was supposed to be big for hair loss, and one day noticed that my painful periods were no longer nearly as painful. Didn't do a thing for my hair, though. LOL

Saw Palmetto apparently is some kind of hormone balancer. I have no idea as to the mechanism of action but it's cheap and worth a try. After taking it for some months I no longer had screaming pain, although I still got cramps and there was still bowel involvement (cramps and bowel elimination went hand in hand). I took it for a year. I'd recommend for her at least a couple months. My thought is that it reduced my estrogen levels, which was enough to ameliorate the worst of the cramps.

Even after I stopped taking it, the cramps continued to fade over time so that I no longer even had to take analgesics. I still bled very heavily because of the fibroids, but at least I wasn't screaming in pain and killing my liver with narcotics and NSAIDS.

Other things I should have tried back then but didn't include a very low fat diet, and some big-time detox strategies to reduce endotoxin and serotonin in the gut. The Peaty carrot salad and maybe some activated charcoal come to mind, although it sounds like her liver could be pretty "clogged" and so might need more than just those two things. Liver support like milk thistle and maybe even TUDCA (research this before trying). There's a lot of good ideas out there and detox protocols, although I usually like to cobble my own protocol together with bits of various others.

Incidentally, I could never tolerate progesterone until very recently when I got my liver cleaned up a bit by doing a very low fat diet. Clean liver helps the body detox estrogen so liver detox is IMO essential to recovering from any kind of menstrual problems. I wonder now how much trouble I could have saved myself if I'd known then what I know now.

I don't know if that helps. I can't offer much about lab tests because I was very poor at the time so couldn't get any. I've found them to be largely a waste of money, anyway, except to track progress. I find that how I feel after trying something for a while is my very best guide.

Good luck! Fingers crossed for her. :) It sucks to be like that and I hope she finds some kind of at least partial resolution soon.

 

[Giraffe]

@Jac, I used to have dysmenorrhea. A friend advised me to have iron-rich food the day my period starts or the day before. At that time I was near-vegetarian. I also had very heavy periods. My iron panel always came back very low-normal.

So I made sure to eat blood pudding or meat before the period started, and the debilitating pain vanished into thin air. Only if I went for several months without eating any meat it came back.

Hope your wife finds something that helps her.

 

[tara]

I'm sorry your wife's suffering so.
I had intolerable dysmenorrhea in my late teens and 20s too - though usually no more than 24 hrs. Pain, faint, nausea, diarrhea, sometimes vomiting, sometimes would have to crawl to loo because I couldn't walk. etc. First time I heard shock described, I recognised it. So when I read Peat on estrogen as a hormone of shock, it made sense to me - I was often white as a ghost too. Funnily enough, one of the few things I used to get temporary relief from at the time was cold water. Or even just cold hands on the belly. I know this is not general though - I know more women who wanted a hot water bottle at that time.
ETA: I meant to say swimming in cold water, not drinking it.

I'm not quite sure what changed for me in late twenties, but it went away. Only occasionally get a brief twinge these days (I'm early fifties now).
Could have been one or more of:
more/better protein or something else in meat (I was vegetarian in early twenties)
more salt (I had a patch of ill-advised low-salt eating)
less fibre (the Fibre Menace author talks about inflammed intestines from excessive fibre being one possible contributor to dysmenorrhea)
more minerals
less cheese (personal intolerance, but also it can be a bit constipating for some)
less milk (I seem to have developed an intolerance of some kind - milk is great food if it works for you)

One of the mistakes I used to make was that because digestion was disrupted, I avoided eating for that day - I think I exacerbated the problem by withholding food. If I was there again now, I'd be experimenting more to find out if there was anything I could digest OK in that state to keep at least some fuel coming in preferably also keep up the mineral supply. I'd be trying to ensure good magnesium, calcium, potassium and salt intake in general and esp in the days before menstruation.

Do you have data on your wife's body temps and resting heart rate? They can give a bit of an indication of base metabolism. If that's low, it can contribute to lots of trouble, as noted by Koveras above.

Progesterone might be worth trying. I'd recommend one of the faster absorbing versions over the transdermal creams - progest-e or one of the products from vendors here - you can read about haidut's and healthnatura's products and people's experiences. I've used progest-e, but not for dysmenorrhea.

Good luck - I hope she finds something that works for her soon!

 

[denise]

I'm so sorry to hear about your wife. Cramps are horrible. I'd rather have any other pain than that. I don't have any directly useful advice, but I did want to mention a couple things that happened for me, in case it's useful for her or anyone else. I started getting cramps in my early 20s, I think. From then until my mid-30s, the only (non drug) thing that helped was consistent, intense exercise. Too bad I hate intense exercise... So instead I relied on Aleve and hard liquor. (Not ideal...)

In my late-30s I started getting symptoms from fibroids. My short, light cycle turned into a 14 day nightmare, and the cramps lasted longer than ever. In November 2015 I had uterine fibroid embolization done. Within a few months, not only had my cycle gone back to 3-4 days, but my cramps disappeared completely. This has had me confused. Why? IIRC, fibroid tissue generates more estrogen than normal uterine tissue, so perhaps that's it? Or perhaps it was related to not losing so much blood (along with all the nutrients that were in it) every month? Either way, I was overjoyed.

Anyway, before I had the UFE done, I did try Progest-E (and a lot of other supps for hormonal support), but I never felt any benefit from any of it, for whatever reason (but I'm generally a non-responder). But it seems like it couldn't hurt to get your wife some Progestene. And if her thyroid function is low (not according to blood tests but according to temps/symptoms), you might consider getting some Tyromix at the same time as the Progestene. A friend and I both started Tyromix this last week--she was in the midst of her cycle, and she felt sure that the Tyromix had already had a small effect on her cramps--they didn't disappear but something had changed. (This was after only one day, and she obviously needs more data, but the fact that she noticed something different/better after just a drop of the stuff is promising.)

Best of luck to you!

 

[SarahBeara]

I'm so sorry for your wife, it's such an overlooked issue and it really can be debilitating.

I have always suffered from bad PMS, mostly with mental issues rather than bad cramps. This month I've been using Mg citrate to help with constipation. And as if by magic this was the easiest cycle I can remember having.

Kind of kicking myself I didn't try it before as Mg is known to help with menstrual issues as well as generally relaxing muscles.

 

[Peata]

Aspirin has been my savior.

 

[Jac]

I would like to thank everyone for their input and advice. Much appreciated. She will start with progest e, gelatin, aspirin. Basically she will go through a trial and error process of what has been spoken about on this forum and hope some of recommendations will help. I think she is looking at trying B1 and B6 with Magnesium phosphate. She read somewhere that it helps and will order it from Vitacost or Iherb. Thank you again. :)

 

[Luna]

A friend advised me to have iron-rich food the day my period starts or the day before.

So I made sure to eat blood pudding or meat before the period started, and the debilitating pain vanished into thin air. Only if I went for several months without eating any meat it came back.

It is probably due to cholesterol intake or magnesium intake, but not iron.
Chicken breast contrasted to blood sausage does not provide the high amount of iron a blood sausage would.
Hence, the common idea in some circles to suggest women should take more iron for their menstrual cycle, is probably not really a solid idea.


Data retrieved from Anses Table Ciqual 2013, Ciqual French Food Composition Table version (2013) Click >> Search by components >> Cholesterol, Magnesiu
m, Iron
Anses Table Ciqual 2013 Composition nutritionnelle des aliments

I listed the info with:
Rank Number, Name of Food, --- average mg of Cholesterol/Mg/Fe per 100 g, (range of mg, min to max), and [confidence code]


CHOLESTEROL
(266) Black pudding (blood sausage), cooked --- 73.8 mg / 100 g (68 mg to 120 mg, min to max) [Grade B]
(257) Beef, ground, 5% fat, cooked --- 76 mg / 100 g [Grade B]
(287) Chicken breast, meat only, cooked --- 70.4 mg / 100 g (53 mg to 85 mg, min to max) [Grade A]
(357) Pork blade, roasted --- 58.4 mg / 100 g (82 mg, max) [Grade A]


MAGNESIUM
(261) Pork blade, roasted --- 27 mg / 100 g (26 mg to 28 mg, min to max) [Grade D]
(377) Chicken breast, meat only, cooked --- 26.5 mg / 100 g (23 mg to 29 mg, min to max) [Grade B]
(508) Beef, ground, 5% fat, cooked --- 22 mg / 100 g [Grade B]
(1088) Black pudding (blood sausage), cooked --- 8.5 mg / 100 g (8 mg to 20.10 mg, min to max) [Grade B]


IRON
(5) Black pudding (blood sausage), cooked --- 22.8 mg / 100 g (6.40 mg, min) [Grade B]
(174) Beef, ground, 5% fat, cooked --- 2.83 mg / 100 g [Grade B]
(316) Pork blade, roasted -- 1.77 mg /100 g (0.99 mg to 2.40 mg, min to max) [Grade A]
(903) Chicken breast, meat only, cooked --- 0.4 mg / 100 g (1.08 mg, max) [Grade A]

 

[PakPik]

I suggest checking out this recent thread -very important info from Dr. Katharina Dalton regarding progesterone/female problems: Katharina Dalton: The Dietary "musts" For Improving Progesterone (Hint: No Low Carb, No Starvation)

 

[Giraffe]

It is probably due to cholesterol intake or magnesium intake, but not iron.

It is possible that it was not iron, but something else in meat and blood pudding that helped me. I supplemented magnesium once in a while, so I don't think that it was the magnesium. Not sure about the cholesterol theory either.
My understanding is that the body produces a lot more than what we would get from food, and I always got some from dairy products and eggs anyway.

 

[Jac]

I suggest checking out this recent thread -very important info from Dr. Katharina Dalton regarding progesterone/female problems: Katharina Dalton: The Dietary "musts" For Improving Progesterone (Hint: No Low Carb, No Starvation)

Hi, she has had a few tests done and these were her results; Blood test taken on day 14 of cycle.

FSH: 9.5 IU/L

LH: 34.3 IU/L

PROGESTERONE: 2.0 nmol/L

Oestradiol: 1502 pmol/L

Interpretation for mid-cycle:

FSH: 4-25

LH: 10-75

Progesterone: <6nmol ovulation unlikely

Testosterone: 1.8nmol/L (0.5 - 2.6)

She would like to take a progesterone supplement as progesterone is quite low, would you recommend it for? If so, how much and how often should it be taken i.e. daily, from day 14 of cycle onwards?
Profile is; women, early 30's.
I appreciate any helpful advice or recommendation. Currently taking vitex but it seems it is not giving the desired results yet. Thank you.

 

[Velve921]

I've had large success with epsom salt baths; 1-4lbs per bath 1-7x a week for magnesium support has been the most powerful anti-stress substance I've tried yet.