Sleuthing With Regards To Respiratory Alkalosis And Low C02

[Caitlin]

*neck, not next

 

[mangoes]

Thanks a lot, that’s really helpful

 

[yerrag]

Caitlin, I know how it feels being in your state. I have hypertension the last 15 years, very high in fact. I also did everything short of seeing a conventional doctor, and the help I needed, to cure me, wasn't doing anything. I've been on this forum for 3 years already. Still, problem hasn't been solved. But I've learned many things here - Peat's ideas, other ideas, learned to be patient reading things thrown at me, trying hard not to skim through, but to comprehend. I've been experimenting on myself, and many times hopes are dashed when I get suckered into thinking the fix is around the corner. I still soldier on, and again I'm feeling a breakthrough is again around the corner. I feel that my case is unique, but that isn't so. Everyone here is unique and has their own context. I hope your case is easier to fix than mine, and that you're being nudged in the right direction by the ideas here.

I have a few questions to start with: How are you hypoxic? How did you come to be hypoxic?

 

[Caitlin]

Caitlin, I know how it feels being in your state. I have hypertension the last 15 years, very high in fact. I also did everything short of seeing a conventional doctor, and the help I needed, to cure me, wasn't doing anything. I've been on this forum for 3 years already. Still, problem hasn't been solved. But I've learned many things here - Peat's ideas, other ideas, learned to be patient reading things thrown at me, trying hard not to skim through, but to comprehend. I've been experimenting on myself, and many times hopes are dashed when I get suckered into thinking the fix is around the corner. I still soldier on, and again I'm feeling a breakthrough is again around the corner. I feel that my case is unique, but that isn't so. Everyone here is unique and has their own context. I hope your case is easier to fix than mine, and that you're being nudged in the right direction by the ideas here.

I have a few questions to start with: How are you hypoxic? How did you come to be hypoxic?

Hi Yerrag,

Thanks for the encouragement. I am having a really tough time and have started experiencing a lot of depression because of this. I've been searching for answers for close to 10 years. I don't want to give up, but this feels so defeating, physically and emotionally.

I believe I am hypoxic because I am weak and stiff all the time. My legs in particular, but my arms, too. I think I notice the leg weakness more because they are carrying me around all day. Especially when I have to do anything that requires any strength (walking up a hill or stairs) or holding a basic yoga pose. Today during my online French class I was out of breath just by speaking. Initially I thought it was some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction -- in the sense that not enough ATP was reaching my mitochondria. As I started to learn about and do the Buteyko technique, I confirmed that my C02 was indeed low (per various capnometer sessions) and I learned about the Bohr Effect and how that leads to hypoxia because the hemoglobin won't release the oxygen.

I have paid gobs and gobs of money to conventional doctors, holistic doctors, shamans, and more. I know that in some sense I have to become my own healer and in many ways I have. It's just the most frustrating thing when you are confounded by yourself and your own body.

Anyway, I appreciate your insight. Thank you.

 

[yerrag]

Hi Yerrag,

Thanks for the encouragement. I am having a really tough time and have started experiencing a lot of depression because of this. I've been searching for answers for close to 10 years. I don't want to give up, but this feels so defeating, physically and emotionally.

I believe I am hypoxic because I am weak and stiff all the time. My legs in particular, but my arms, too. I think I notice the leg weakness more because they are carrying me around all day. Especially when I have to do anything that requires any strength (walking up a hill or stairs) or holding a basic yoga pose. Today during my online French class I was out of breath just by speaking. Initially I thought it was some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction -- in the sense that not enough ATP was reaching my mitochondria. As I started to learn about and do the Buteyko technique, I confirmed that my C02 was indeed low (per various capnometer sessions) and I learned about the Bohr Effect and how that leads to hypoxia because the hemoglobin won't release the oxygen.

I have paid gobs and gobs of money to conventional doctors, holistic doctors, shamans, and more. I know that in some sense I have to become my own healer and in many ways I have. It's just the most frustrating thing when you are confounded by yourself and your own body.

Anyway, I appreciate your insight. Thank you.

Hi Caitlin, don't stress yourself. At wit's end, take a break. I did that for a while, and got back. It may be hard, but as long as you don't drain yourself mentally, you'll always be able to continue what you're doing. Giving up is to lose hope, and hope is what keeps us going. You already know that I'm pretty sure, so forgive me if I'm preaching here but I just had to say it.

Thanks for the explanation on your hypoxia. I wonder if you ever considered the possibility that you're hypoxemic. Hypoxia is low tissue oxygenation and hypoxemia is low oxygen carrying capacity of your blood. I was hypoxemic before and didn't realize it. I always felt exhausted after running just a kilometer, and kept thinking I wasn't training hard enough. Then I realized I had mercury toxicity, had all my silver amalgams replaced by composite fillings, and underwent a series of chelation therapy. It was a great feeling to finally have the stamina to run 5 kilometers without so much as training for it. Each hemoglobin molecule can carry four oxygen molecules, but when mercury attaches to hemoglobin, it could displace oxygen molecules such that instead of carrying four oxygen molecules, it could just be carrying two. In such a case, your blood would only be carrying half the oxygen that it could normally carry.

If you have an oximeter, you can measure your spO2. I think that if you find the spO2 to be always low, you would be hypoxemic. If you find it to be always high, you would be hypoxic. I'm only guessing here though, as I've not had the chance to use an oximeter when I was hypoxemic, but it's reasonable to think that under hypoxemia, spO2 would be low as blood is carrying a low amount of oxygen. On the other hand, if you're not hypoxemic but hypoxic, your spO2 would always be on the high side, as oxygen isn't being released to the tissues, and it would be reflected as high spO2 all the time. There's also a possibility that you could be both hypoxemic and hypoxic, but that could just be the eventual result that began with hypoxemia.

Would you be able to check your spO2 and share with us your results?

I could be wrong here and I hope I am, but I wanted to check this first as I didn't want to overlook something as essential as oxygen. I always check the battery contacts first when my car doesn't want to start before going into deeper stuff.

 

[LUH 3417]

Hi Yerrag,

Thanks for the encouragement. I am having a really tough time and have started experiencing a lot of depression because of this. I've been searching for answers for close to 10 years. I don't want to give up, but this feels so defeating, physically and emotionally.

I believe I am hypoxic because I am weak and stiff all the time. My legs in particular, but my arms, too. I think I notice the leg weakness more because they are carrying me around all day. Especially when I have to do anything that requires any strength (walking up a hill or stairs) or holding a basic yoga pose. Today during my online French class I was out of breath just by speaking. Initially I thought it was some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction -- in the sense that not enough ATP was reaching my mitochondria. As I started to learn about and do the Buteyko technique, I confirmed that my C02 was indeed low (per various capnometer sessions) and I learned about the Bohr Effect and how that leads to hypoxia because the hemoglobin won't release the oxygen.

I have paid gobs and gobs of money to conventional doctors, holistic doctors, shamans, and more. I know that in some sense I have to become my own healer and in many ways I have. It's just the most frustrating thing when you are confounded by yourself and your own body.

Anyway, I appreciate your insight. Thank you.

I’m so sorry to hear this. I truly hope you do feel better soon. Have you ever traveled to a place with high altitude? I get air hunger too but I felt very good when I traveled to Michoacán Mexico which is over ~7k feet in elevation.

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Caitlin, don't stress yourself. At wit's end, take a break. I did that for a while, and got back. It may be hard, but as long as you don't drain yourself mentally, you'll always be able to continue what you're doing. Giving up is to lose hope, and hope is what keeps us going. You already know that I'm pretty sure, so forgive me if I'm preaching here but I just had to say it.

Thanks for the explanation on your hypoxia. I wonder if you ever considered the possibility that you're hypoxemic. Hypoxia is low tissue oxygenation and hypoxemia is low oxygen carrying capacity of your blood. I was hypoxemic before and didn't realize it. I always felt exhausted after running just a kilometer, and kept thinking I wasn't training hard enough. Then I realized I had mercury toxicity, had all my silver amalgams replaced by composite fillings, and underwent a series of chelation therapy. It was a great feeling to finally have the stamina to run 5 kilometers without so much as training for it. Each hemoglobin molecule can carry four oxygen molecules, but when mercury attaches to hemoglobin, it could displace oxygen molecules such that instead of carrying four oxygen molecules, it could just be carrying two. In such a case, your blood would only be carrying half the oxygen that it could normally carry.

If you have an oximeter, you can measure your spO2. I think that if you find the spO2 to be always low, you would be hypoxemic. If you find it to be always high, you would be hypoxic. I'm only guessing here though, as I've not had the chance to use an oximeter when I was hypoxemic, but it's reasonable to think that under hypoxemia, spO2 would be low as blood is carrying a low amount of oxygen. On the other hand, if you're not hypoxemic but hypoxic, your spO2 would always be on the high side, as oxygen isn't being released to the tissues, and it would be reflected as high spO2 all the time. There's also a possibility that you could be both hypoxemic and hypoxic, but that could just be the eventual result that began with hypoxemia.

Would you be able to check your spO2 and share with us your results?

I could be wrong here and I hope I am, but I wanted to check this first as I didn't want to overlook something as essential as oxygen. I always check the battery contacts first when my car doesn't want to start before going into deeper stuff.

Hi there,

Thanks for this! I have been checked by a pulse oximeter a couple of time at a doctor's office over the past 8 or so years and I remember the results being high. Like 97-99 or something. And I remember being frustrated as all heck knowing that it wasn't reflective of how I was really feeling. Maybe I will buy one and just continue to check it out.

But I remember reading -- either in Patrick McKeown's book or elsewhere -- about how in my case it likely wasn't about the amount of oxygen in my blood but the inability for it to be distributed to my cells: The Right Way To Breathe For Increased Performance And Energy - The Energy Blueprint

anyway, thanks for this info and the pep talk!

 

[Caitlin]

I’m so sorry to hear this. I truly hope you do feel better soon. Have you ever traveled to a place with high altitude? I get air hunger too but I felt very good when I traveled to Michoacán Mexico which is over ~7k feet in elevation.

Hi Pina Colada,

Yeah, I spent a month living in Cusco, Peru, in 2017 and felt horrible while I was there. I even did hyperbaric oxygen treatment when I was there and didn't get better. Which was so frustrating! Even with all that oxygenflooding into my system, I got worse. I wonder why? Maybe the flood of 02 lowered my C02 even more? I did about 15 treatments there. I had thought about trying that treatment in the US, but then I was there and learned about how they had a center there and how they were a third of the price in Cusco versus the US.

One thing that did really help me was taking pulverized Coca leaf. I would mix it into water and it helped me considerably. Given that it is a Schedule 2 drug in the US, there is no research on it, but it is known to help carry oxygen to the mitochondria and obviously it's been used for centuries in the high altitudes of Peru -- for energy and to help with oxygen delivery. It helped the most the first couple of days I took it. I even shipped some illegally back to the US and used it as a supplement for a couple of years. It never cured my issue like it did the first two days I took it, but it definitely gave me a boost.

I think i found a post where Ray wrote about how Acetazolamide (Diamox) can be helpful. I am going to do a search in this forum for it, but I am wondering if anyone has used it to benefit them in this manner?

 

[tara]

Another possible lowish cost home DIY thing you can monitor is UpH. Peat reckoned 24 hr average should ideally be between about 6.3-6.7, and this is similar to Carey Reams (RBTI) views on healing range. If it's chronically high or low, it might give clues about which way the body is out of balance, and what might be helpful. (Not that I'm expert at that either.)

 

[Caitlin]

Another possible lowish cost home DIY thing you can monitor is UpH. Peat reckoned 24 hr average should ideally be between about 6.3-6.7, and this is similar to Carey Reams (RBTI) views on healing range. If it's chronically high or low, it might give clues about which way the body is out of balance, and what might be helpful. (Not that I'm expert at that either.)

UpH is urine pH?

 

[tara]

UpH is urine pH?

Yes. It's a while since I did it, but I think there are test strips with a range of about pH 5-8. Hopefully mostly that's a wide enough range, but if not, there are other ranges.
Edit: I think I might have been using test papers in with range 5.5 - 8. Occasionally would dip down to or below bottom of range, and needed lower range. Then I got a meter.

 

[tara]

If using supplements or other techniques that influence body pH, I think monitoring UpH might help reduce the risk of overdoing it and pushing things too far. There are at least a couple of posters here who have sufffered milk-alkali syndrome, which is potentially harmful. I think that can happen with excessive supplementation of some alkaline minerals.

On the other hand, I think sometimes supplementing some of those minerals is really helpful if the system is short of them.

So I figure having a view on the pH state and effects in the body could be useful, especially when it's been hard to figure out what's going on and things seem out of balance.

 

[Caitlin]

I used to track it several years ago, but wasn't sure what I was looking for and can't remember if I was able to deduce anything from it. Maybe I will try again. Thanks for the rec!

 

[yerrag]

I used to track it several years ago, but wasn't sure what I was looking for and can't remember if I was able to deduce anything from it. Maybe I will try again. Thanks for the rec!

Tara's right. You can buy Hydrion pH test strips from Amazon. The range of 5.5 - 9 is adequate. But if you still want to test lower, I think you can still get a lower range strip.

I've thought about this a lot myself, how poor metabolism can make you low on CO2. When metabolism is poor, you end up with lactic acid and/or keto acids. It causes your ecf pH to get acidic. With that much acidity coming from a non-CO2 source (carbonic acid), there is only little room left for carbonic acid to contribute to acidifying your ecf. Once your ecf reaches the pH of 7.4 (there's some play 7.35-7.45 but this is just the body trying to reach 7.4), the body's just going to try to expel the carbonic acid (and CO2) thru the lungs. You really have no choice but to breathe out CO2 (this is a faster way than wait for the kidneys to increase pH). The more acidic the ecf is, the more CO2 the lungs will want to expel, and this causes breathing to increase, and this is a cause for hyperventilation. Because CO2 content in the blood is so low in this situation, it causes you to be hypoxic because oxygen is not being released to the tissues , because CO2 is low. Because of low tissue oxygenation, there isn't enough oxygen really to enable aerobic glycolysis, a step necessary on the way to oxidative metabolism, which produces plenty of CO2 as a by-product. With hypoxia, you may likely will rely a lot on anaerobic glycolysis for energy, but this produces a lot of lactic acid, and lactic acid displaces what would normally be carbonic acid that forms the organic acidic component of in your blood. As you can see, this forms a virtual (but not virtuous) cycle where your body is in a constant state of adaptation that is full of stress. This is a chronic stress condition.

Breathing in more CO2, or retaining more CO2 is not going to help. Bag-breathng, Buteyko - they can't counter the reflexive urge of the body to expel CO2 because the ecf is enough acidic already.

You mentioned weakened leg muscles earlier. I wonder if this is because you have low thiamine. But thiamine may be needed to help you break this cycle, as I think that it can help convert lactic acid to glucose. A lactate blood test would give you a picture of your lactate status. When I had hypoxemia, I would easily tire out from muscle soreness just runnng 1 kilometer. This is the result of lactic acid buildup. I wonder if your tiring out easily has to do with lactic acid quickly building up.

 

[Caitlin]

Tara's right. You can buy Hydrion pH test strips from Amazon. The range of 5.5 - 9 is adequate. But if you still want to test lower, I think you can still get a lower range strip.

I've thought about this a lot myself, how poor metabolism can make you low on CO2. When metabolism is poor, you end up with lactic acid and/or keto acids. It causes your ecf pH to get acidic. With that much acidity coming from a non-CO2 source (carbonic acid), there is only little room left for carbonic acid to contribute to acidifying your ecf. Once your ecf reaches the pH of 7.4 (there's some play 7.35-7.45 but this is just the body trying to reach 7.4), the body's just going to try to expel the carbonic acid (and CO2) thru the lungs. You really have no choice but to breathe out CO2 (this is a faster way than wait for the kidneys to increase pH). The more acidic the ecf is, the more CO2 the lungs will want to expel, and this causes breathing to increase, and this is a cause for hyperventilation. Because CO2 content in the blood is so low in this situation, it causes you to be hypoxic because oxygen is not being released to the tissues , because CO2 is low. Because of low tissue oxygenation, there isn't enough oxygen really to enable aerobic glycolysis, a step necessary on the way to oxidative metabolism, which produces plenty of CO2 as a by-product. With hypoxia, you may likely will rely a lot on anaerobic glycolysis for energy, but this produces a lot of lactic acid, and lactic acid displaces what would normally be carbonic acid that forms the organic acidic component of in your blood. As you can see, this forms a virtual (but not virtuous) cycle where your body is in a constant state of adaptation that is full of stress. This is a chronic stress condition.

Breathing in more CO2, or retaining more CO2 is not going to help. Bag-breathng, Buteyko - they can't counter the reflexive urge of the body to expel CO2 because the ecf is enough acidic already.

You mentioned weakened leg muscles earlier. I wonder if this is because you have low thiamine. But thiamine may be needed to help you break this cycle, as I think that it can help convert lactic acid to glucose. A lactate blood test would give you a picture of your lactate status. When I had hypoxemia, I would easily tire out from muscle soreness just runnng 1 kilometer. This is the result of lactic acid buildup. I wonder if your tiring out easily has to do with lactic acid quickly building up.

This is all very interesting!

I have had my thiamine levels tested throughout the years, and they were normal. And I have taken B1 supplements throughout the years, but to no avail. But maybe I didn't take enough? Whatever I took didn't make a dent in the problem.

I guess I am a little confused. I have a few questions and maybe you can help me understand. I guess I thought I was experiencing respiratory alkalosis, not acidosis. I looked at some bloodwork from December and the lactic acid levels in my blood were normal. I have not had my lactate dehydrogenase tested yet, though. Did you mean lactic acid or lactate? Just wanted to clarify.

I remember reading in THE OXYGEN ADVANTAGE the following excerpt:

Normal pH in the blood is 7.36, and this level must remain within a tightly defined range or the body is forced to compensate. For example, when the blood's pH becomes more alkaline, breathing reduces to restore pH. Conversely, if the pH of the blood is too acidic (as when you overconsume processed foods), breathing increases in order to offload carbon dioxide as acid, allowing pH to normalize. Maintaining normal blood pH is vital to our survival. If pH is too acidic and drops below 6.8, or too alkaline and rises above 7.8, the result can be fatal....Without the requisite amount of CO2 in the blood, blood vessels constrict and hemoglobin cannot release oxygen into the bloodstream; without the requisite amount of oxygen, working muscles do not perform as effectively as they should. We become breathless, or hit a wall in our capabilities. It becomes a cycle: It's not just the breathless exertion that leads to panting. It's the panting that leads to breathless exertion.

I also read this elsewhere:

In the short term, overbreathing leads to what is known as respiratory alkalosis.’ because of the subsequent loss of minerals and bicarbonate stores (which are made primarily from CO2), the body becomes more acid. This acidity seems to increase both hyperventilation and allergic symptoms. People become less allergic if they can successfully change their breathing patterns. It is known that low CO2 increases the release of histamine from most cells.

and this:

Multimedia Encyclopedia - Penn State Hershey Medical Center - Alkalosis - Penn State Hershey Medical Center

I guess I am just really confused. There's metabolic acidosis and alkalosis. And Respiratory Acidosis and Alkalosis. Man, my brain hurts!

Thanks!
C

 

[yerrag]

I have had my thiamine levels tested throughout the years, and they were normal. And I have taken B1 supplements throughout the years, but to no avail. But maybe I didn't take enough? Whatever I took didn't make a dent in the problem.

Maybe it's not a thiamine problem. But if you search thiamine in this forum, it's used in larger quantities for therapeutic purposes. The B vitamins we take, usually as B-complex, only have maintenance doses of B1. And thiamine is a water-soluble vitamin, so body stores of it don't last long and without replenishment through foods and supplements, levels easily go down. Once I was urinating so much I depleted my thiamine stores. Once I realized what was happening, I took therapeutic supplementation, and my "old man" weak legs were no longer feeling old anymore.

I guess I am a little confused. I have a few questions and maybe you can help me understand. I guess I thought I was experiencing respiratory alkalosis, not acidosis. I looked at some bloodwork from December and the lactic acid levels in my blood were normal. I have not had my lactate dehydrogenase tested yet, though. Did you mean lactic acid or lactate? Just wanted to clarify.

Respiratory alkalosis is about the same as metabolic acidosis. Been awhile since I mastered these things, but for lack of practice I had forgotten how to explain the distinction. I can't seem to find the Youtube video that does a good job explaining it. I think it's this one:



Lactic acid and lactate are the same, but people would easily confuse it with LDH or lactate dehydrogenase, an enzyme. LDH is usually used as a marker for tissue destruction, and inflammation. It's a useful and affordable test. I use also hsCRP and ESR for test for inflammation. There are many others but I limit to what's affordable and work with them as you can go broke doing so many tests and the more you spend the more frustrated you get when you're going around in circles.

Normal pH in the blood is 7.36, and this level must remain within a tightly defined range or the body is forced to compensate. For example, when the blood's pH becomes more alkaline, breathing reduces to restore pH. Conversely, if the pH of the blood is too acidic (as when you overconsume processed foods), breathing increases in order to offload carbon dioxide as acid, allowing pH to normalize. Maintaining normal blood pH is vital to our survival. If pH is too acidic and drops below 6.8, or too alkaline and rises above 7.8, the result can be fatal....Without the requisite amount of CO2 in the blood, blood vessels constrict and hemoglobin cannot release oxygen into the bloodstream; without the requisite amount of oxygen, working muscles do not perform as effectively as they should.

Agree up till this point.

We become breathless, or hit a wall in our capabilities. It becomes a cycle: It's not just the breathless exertion that leads to panting. It's the panting that leads to breathless exertion.

The body will compensate for lack of tissue oxygenation in many ways. Becoming breathless is just one. The body can downregulate respiration. The kidneys will retain what it needs more and excrete what it needs less. Having a breathing problem, in my opinion, is already a case of imbalance where other adaptive responses are near exhaustion.

In the short term, overbreathing leads to what is known as respiratory alkalosis.’ because of the subsequent loss of minerals and bicarbonate stores (which are made primarily from CO2), the body becomes more acid. This acidity seems to increase both hyperventilation and allergic symptoms. People become less allergic if they can successfully change their breathing patterns. It is known that low CO2 increases the release of histamine from most cells.

I should watch the Youtube video to refresh my understanding of respiratory alkalosis. It is tricky. It's a case of not mistaking white for black and once you mistake one for the other you get really confused. I'll get back to you later on this. Even doctors get this wrong, and that's why trusting doctors just don't make sense.

 

[Caitlin]

Thank you! I will watch this tomorrow when I have a little more bandwidth! I was doing a little more sleuthing on my last 9 years of bloodwork and noticed two things in particular:

1) in a Metametrix Organic Acids test from 2012 I had very hight beta hydroxybutyrate, which I hear is a sign of metabolic acidosis.
2) On a blood test from 2016, I had a high anion gap level of 20. But, that said, I also found some low anion gap levels of 6 or 7 from 2012. So I don't know if that means anything.

 

[Caitlin]

Maybe it's not a thiamine problem. But if you search thiamine in this forum, it's used in larger quantities for therapeutic purposes. The B vitamins we take, usually as B-complex, only have maintenance doses of B1. And thiamine is a water-soluble vitamin, so body stores of it don't last long and without replenishment through foods and supplements, levels easily go down. Once I was urinating so much I depleted my thiamine stores. Once I realized what was happening, I took therapeutic supplementation, and my "old man" weak legs were no longer feeling old anymore.


Respiratory alkalosis is about the same as metabolic acidosis. Been awhile since I mastered these things, but for lack of practice I had forgotten how to explain the distinction. I can't seem to find the Youtube video that does a good job explaining it. I think it's this one:



Lactic acid and lactate are the same, but people would easily confuse it with LDH or lactate dehydrogenase, an enzyme. LDH is usually used as a marker for tissue destruction, and inflammation. It's a useful and affordable test. I use also hsCRP and ESR for test for inflammation. There are many others but I limit to what's affordable and work with them as you can go broke doing so many tests and the more you spend the more frustrated you get when you're going around in circles.


Agree up till this point.

The body will compensate for lack of tissue oxygenation in many ways. Becoming breathless is just one. The body can downregulate respiration. The kidneys will retain what it needs more and excrete what it needs less. Having a breathing problem, in my opinion, is already a case of imbalance where other adaptive responses are near exhaustion.



I should watch the Youtube video to refresh my understanding of respiratory alkalosis. It is tricky. It's a case of not mistaking white for black and once you mistake one for the other you get really confused. I'll get back to you later on this. Even doctors get this wrong, and that's why trusting doctors just don't make sense.

This video is fantastic. Really great. I guess I am a little confused, though, because it seems like he is saying that the respiratory alkalosis/acidosis or metabolic alkalosis/acidosis are two different things and that if it is happening in your lungs it's respiratory, and if it is not, it is metabolic. Is there a way for both to be happening? Mine is clearly happening in the lungs, but does that mean acidosis couldn't be happening elsewhere in my body?

 

[Caitlin]

Thank you! I will watch this tomorrow when I have a little more bandwidth! I was doing a little more sleuthing on my last 9 years of bloodwork and noticed two things in particular:

1) in a Metametrix Organic Acids test from 2012 I had very hight beta hydroxybutyrate, which I hear is a sign of metabolic acidosis.
2) On a blood test from 2016, I had a high anion gap level of 20. But, that said, I also found some low anion gap levels of 6 or 7 from 2012. So I don't know if that means anything.

Maybe it's not a thiamine problem. But if you search thiamine in this forum, it's used in larger quantities for therapeutic purposes. The B vitamins we take, usually as B-complex, only have maintenance doses of B1. And thiamine is a water-soluble vitamin, so body stores of it don't last long and without replenishment through foods and supplements, levels easily go down. Once I was urinating so much I depleted my thiamine stores. Once I realized what was happening, I took therapeutic supplementation, and my "old man" weak legs were no longer feeling old anymore.


Respiratory alkalosis is about the same as metabolic acidosis. Been awhile since I mastered these things, but for lack of practice I had forgotten how to explain the distinction. I can't seem to find the Youtube video that does a good job explaining it. I think it's this one:



Lactic acid and lactate are the same, but people would easily confuse it with LDH or lactate dehydrogenase, an enzyme. LDH is usually used as a marker for tissue destruction, and inflammation. It's a useful and affordable test. I use also hsCRP and ESR for test for inflammation. There are many others but I limit to what's affordable and work with them as you can go broke doing so many tests and the more you spend the more frustrated you get when you're going around in circles.


Agree up till this point.

The body will compensate for lack of tissue oxygenation in many ways. Becoming breathless is just one. The body can downregulate respiration. The kidneys will retain what it needs more and excrete what it needs less. Having a breathing problem, in my opinion, is already a case of imbalance where other adaptive responses are near exhaustion.



I should watch the Youtube video to refresh my understanding of respiratory alkalosis. It is tricky. It's a case of not mistaking white for black and once you mistake one for the other you get really confused. I'll get back to you later on this. Even doctors get this wrong, and that's why trusting doctors just don't make sense.

Also, I just found this, so maybe the two ARE related. But it brings up a larger chicken-and-egg question. Which came first, you know? I have been trying to heal the alkalosis by reduced, Buteyko-style breathing, but clearly it is not enough. So maybe there is a deeper issue with the metabolic acidosis.

Respiratory Alkalosis - Endocrine and Metabolic Disorders - Merck Manuals Professional Edition

One thing I do wonder is how the acid and base balance works in the stomach compared to the blood. When I initially started taking the PP1 (Prilosec) and the H2 blocker (Zantac) this winter, I started to get better. Not 100% better, but maybe 30% better. It was noticeable. But then after a few weeks my hypoxia symptoms returned. I guess I am trying to figure out how this whole hydrogen/proton thing with alkalosis and acidosis works with regards to acid reflux, too:)

 

[yerrag]

Thank you! I will watch this tomorrow when I have a little more bandwidth! I was doing a little more sleuthing on my last 9 years of bloodwork and noticed two things in particular:

1) in a Metametrix Organic Acids test from 2012 I had very hight beta hydroxybutyrate, which I hear is a sign of metabolic acidosis.
2) On a blood test from 2016, I had a high anion gap level of 20. But, that said, I also found some low anion gap levels of 6 or 7 from 2012. So I don't know if that means anything.

It's hard for me to explain (it's been hard for me to make a distinction between ketone bodies and keto acids; all attempts have failed, perhaps I shouldn't be rushing myself), but it seems that high beta hydroxybutyrate means you're relying on fatty acid oxidation, and that you're producing keto acids, and these contribute to metabolic acidosis. I don't know if you have any issues with your sugar metabolism that you seem to be relying heavily on fatty acid metabolism. What are your HbA1c results? Have you take glucose tolerance tests, and if so, what does it tell you? High keto acids will contribute to metabolic acidosis.

The high anion gap means you have high ecf and plasma acidity. Need to look into your metabolism more, as well as take more supplemental electrolytes such as magnesium, potassium, and calcium, as well as sodium.

This video is fantastic. Really great. I guess I am a little confused, though, because it seems like he is saying that the respiratory alkalosis/acidosis or metabolic alkalosis/acidosis are two different things and that if it is happening in your lungs it's respiratory, and if it is not, it is metabolic. Is there a way for both to be happening? Mine is clearly happening in the lungs, but does that mean acidosis couldn't be happening elsewhere in my body?

I'm not so sure your problem is in the lungs. You say you have respiratory alkalosis only because, as I understand it, you breathe a lot, or go to the side of hyperventilating. But it could also mean that you are breathing out a lot of CO2 only because your metabolic acidosis condition forces you to breathe out CO2, which requires you to breathe a lot.

I'm given to think that you need to push your body into re-establishing itself to rely on glucose metabolism and to lessen its use of fatty acid metabolism. And glucose metabolism has to be the one that produces the most energy as well as a lot of CO2 - oxidative metabolism. We have to find out what is keeping you from this.

Also, I just found this, so maybe the two ARE related. But it brings up a larger chicken-and-egg question. Which came first, you know? I have been trying to heal the alkalosis by reduced, Buteyko-style breathing, but clearly it is not enough. So maybe there is a deeper issue with the metabolic acidosis.

Buteyko won't help you as your problem isn't respiratory alkalosis as much as it is metabolic acidosis. You're fighting your body's impulses as your body wants to expel CO2 while you are trying to put it back. Your body is only able to expel CO2 as a way to lower acidity (or increase pH) as it's not able to expel the other acids in your body through the lungs, and going thru the lungs is the fastest way to deal with getting rid of acidity (even as it appears to be failing in doing so given the amount of acidity to be expelled). Your kidneys also resolve pH imbalance but at a slower rate but it seems it is in a perpetual process of catching up, as it seems your body's metabolic processes are producing a lot of acidity.

It's best to resolve this as this condition is stressful, with the pH imbalance. It's also taxing on your kidneys. But most of all, this is your internal balance we're talking about. It throws you off on many counts, and that's why you're experiencing issues. The good thing is that when you fix this, you will see all those issues go away.