Pregnenolone, Diosgenin, Estrogen And Its Effects

[energyandstruct]

So this is my second day recently experimenting with pregnenolone. I got what felt like a classic stress response, even a couple heart palpitations. I think my dosage was about 50 mg this time, yesterday more like 20 mg.
Today the stress response was a little more pronounced. Now the stress has worn off a little but I am not getting any beneficial response.

I found this quite odd given that ray said he took doses of up to 1000 mg for a full year with zero negative effects. He says if the body doesn't need it, it simply won't use it. Whenever I asked ray about my negative effects from pregnenolone, he said it could be from estrogens as impurities in the manufacturing process.

I found that hard to believe... seriously, applying occam's razor to the fact that people have had negative experiences with almost every brand on the market, it seems like a conspiracy theory to attribute it to estrogens... Especially since ray says that pregnenolone is protective against estrogens, and so is progesterone, which it partially metabolizes into.


but...

this is health natura's pregnenolone. they have a coa which says it's 99% pure, but the other 1% could be diosgenin, as it is made from wild yam and i think they say the impurity is wild yam but it could really be diosgenin?

Diosgenin has been found to be estrogenic in some studies, but it seems a little too equivocal to explain the effects in pregnenolone. I'll explain further when I get a burst of energy.

 

[energyandstruct]

also i feel like the impurities could be endotoxin rather than estrogen

 

[energyandstruct]

relevant? quotes from someone else on the fb group:

"The mechanism by which cortisol stabilizes blood sugar is by converting tissue into sugar. If thyroid is bad resulting in poor glycogen storage, pregnenolone' antagonism of cortisol's would lower blood sugar, regardless of to what degree pregnenolone can mimic cortisol anti-inflammatory effects"

 

[tara]

this is health natura's pregnenolone. they have a coa which says it's 99% pure, but the other 1% could be diosgenin, as it is made from wild yam and i think they say the impurity is wild yam but it could really be diosgenin?

Diosgenin is what's extracted from wild yam to make pregnenolone (and progesterone, at least). Could be [edited:] some portion of the up to 1% that might be diosgenin from the wild yam? I think diosgenin itself may have estrogenic effects? Don't know what proportions it would have to be to noticably counteract the pregnenolone, but I would have guessed that this would not be enough to be serious.

"The mechanism by which cortisol stabilizes blood sugar is by converting tissue into sugar. If thyroid is bad resulting in poor glycogen storage, pregnenolone' antagonism of cortisol's would lower blood sugar, regardless of to what degree pregnenolone can mimic cortisol anti-inflammatory effects"

If you are relying on stress hormones to supply energy you need, and you use artificial methods to lower stress hormones, then that could leave you short of energy.
I didn't do well on my earlier attempts at pregnenolone supplementation. Is suspect that's why for me and maybe some others. I might try again some time.

 

[jandrade1997]

You could also try some things like taurine, famotidine and biotin to promote glycogen storage in conjunction with increased sugar intake.

 

[energyandstruct]

You could also try some things like taurine, famotidine and biotin to promote glyicgen storage in conjunction with increased sugar intake.

I only have taurine rn so I can start with that

 

[jandrade1997]

2-3 grams with a bunch of sugar should do the trick.

 

[energyandstruct]

2-3 grams with a bunch of sugar should do the trick.

looks like i'm gonna get some on-sale haagen daas tomorrow

 

[tara]

also i feel like the impurities could be endotoxin rather than estrogen

Is ther a reason you think endotoxins would be introduced into this process? I wasn't aware of it having any bacterial component in the processing?

 

[energyandstruct]

Is ther a reason you think endotoxins would be introduced into this process? I wasn't aware of it having any bacterial component in the processing?

I have no idea about the process, although i'm trying to research it... My friend suggested endotoxin because it's a byproduct in many supplements, b/c of using bacteria to generate them, and because my shock response was so immediate, he thought estrogenic impurities wouldn't act that fast and extreme.

 

[SB4]

I too am skeptical of the estrogen impurities response. I know in healthy people pregnenolone is not supposed to go into negative pathways but perhaps in CFS patients it does. I too cannot tolerate certain things in very small doses. I think I read here that more DHEA/PREG goes into estrogen depending on how stressed your body is, maybe how much rT3, and nutrients / antibodies plays a role. To me it seems far more likely that you are having a negative response due to how your body is handling preg, as opposed to estrogen impurities.

If I where you I would try a lower dose. Open a capsule open and take a tiny amount? I know I get effects from 1mg pansterone, both negative and positive.

 

[Andman]

Yep i too have run into problems with preg (various doses and brands). So have many others on here and various other online board like reddit, longecity etc.

Not saying its bad or anything, just really unpredictable.
Seems there is a different response to higher/lower amounts too, haidut has written about that extensively

 

[energyandstruct]

Yep i too have run into problems with preg (various doses and brands). So have many others on here and various other online board like reddit, longecity etc.

Not saying its bad or anything, just really unpredictable.
Seems there is a different response to higher/lower amounts too, haidut has written about that extensively

interesting. I'd love to know haidut's reasoning

 

[Frankdee20]

interesting. I'd love to know haidut's reasoning

Well, I’m sure Haidut’s reasoning is along the lines of Pregnenalone having dose dependent curves on likelihood of increasing Pregnenalone Sulfate, Allopregnenalone, and Progesterone upon conversion. Those all have different effects in the CNS pertaining to stimulation, or sedation.

I used to get severe overstimulation from a 10mg dose. Now I can handle this supplement with no problem.

 

[Frankdee20]

There’s something to be said about allowing your system to get used to hormones. It’s not a vitamin after all, more powerful. Although brand quality and associated purity matters, maybe people overlook at how much time their body needs to adjust to something like this.

 

[Lurker]

Maybe try lowering the dose even more or try progesterone instead (again lower dose <10 mg). This has worked better for me than preg.

 

[energyandstruct]

Well, I’m sure Haidut’s reasoning is along the lines of Pregnenalone having dose dependent curves on likelihood of increasing Pregnenalone Sulfate, Allopregnenalone, and Progesterone upon conversion. Those all have different effects in the CNS pertaining to stimulation, or sedation.

I used to get severe overstimulation from a 10mg dose. Now I can handle this supplement with no problem.

yeah that seems quite reasonable, it's just that ray has said it simply won't have any effect if you don't need it and that he has taken doses up to 5000 mg for over a year. I'm starting to think ray isn't a good case study though lol.

 

[energyandstruct]

Well, I’m sure Haidut’s reasoning is along the lines of Pregnenalone having dose dependent curves on likelihood of increasing Pregnenalone Sulfate, Allopregnenalone, and Progesterone upon conversion. Those all have different effects in the CNS pertaining to stimulation, or sedation.

I used to get severe overstimulation from a 10mg dose. Now I can handle this supplement with no problem.

this is different from peat's reasoning, correct? because peat says it won't be active unless you are deficient

 

[Frankdee20]

this is different from peat's reasoning, correct? because peat says it won't be active unless you are deficient

Quite possibly true, I go up to 60 mg now, no side effects, and the pro social effects seem to have subsided

 

[Waynish]

The idea that some mysterious lab process turns an estrogenic wild yam extract (that was deemed a phytoestrogen and used for birth control in the 60s) into the ultimate anti-estrogen is laughable if you think about it. And also amusing how every article explicitly states "you can't get progesterone from yams, you must get it from an authorized dealer who got it from a certified lab!" And looking at some of the synthesis processes that are public, part of the process is exposing the yam extract to HCl - so basically like eating it (considering your stomach has HCL). Whatever you do folks, trust the scientists and don't expect any positive health effects from well cooked wild yams!