Post Finasteride Syndrome - Please Help

[male34london]

Hi Bloom, I just wanted your thoughts on my situation:

I am 34 years old and started taking Propecia for slight frontal lobe recession in September 2014. I was taking 1mg per day until May 2015 when the side effects (loss of libido, painful erections, tiredness) were becoming too much to tolerate. So I stopped cold turkey and after a few days, everything bounced back and my side effects were gone.

In February 2016 I decided to take saw palmetto, sold by Holland and Barrett. I took this daily for about 3 weeks but the side effects kicked in much quicker this time and I had to stop taking the medication. Again things did bounce back, but now I look back at it, I don’t think my libido did. I used to be very sexually active, but due to my constant focus
on an upcoming year away travelling, I didn’t really think about the loss of libido much at all. This continued throughoutmy trip but wasn’t too prominent.

Then whilst away, I started taking minoxidil 5 topical solution. I started this in the February 2017 and everything seemed to be ok, no side effects, no real issues.

Then where it all went horribly wrong was July 4th 2017. I was out with a friend and was caught in a social situation that caused by adrenaline to go into overdrive, I started to sweat, felt like I couldn’t speak, even had to hold myself up as I felt really weak. Then from
that very moment all of my symptoms, that I still have today, came flooding in.

I now suffer from severe tiredness, muscle weakness (even walking my legs feel shattered), severe brain fog (feels like my head is wrapped in cling film), my brain is no way as sharp as it used to be, eye blur (to the point I have to constantly re-focus my eyes), reduced libido, reduced penile girth when erect, joint pain, peyronies disease with very painful erections. I also feel like my body cannot deal with stressful situations anymore. As soon as my brain has to overwork or think hard or deal with stress, m head either side (above ears) and around the back aches, I start to get a headache and my body (especially my legs) start to ache.

I have been to see many doctors, all of which say my blood results are good and as expected. I do question a few of my results, namely SHBG which I believe is way too high for my age. I would appreciate it if anyone had any views on my other results and if they are not where they should be.

Currently I am taking:
6g of Boron
1 x 100mg B6
2 x 4000 IU Vitamin D
2 x Magnesium Citrate
3 x 3 Billion Priobotic
3 x 1,500 mg Maca
4 x 1g Glycine

I have recently ordered a neurotransmitter test to see what is happening with those inside my brain. Hoping they will show up something.

I really appreciate anyones advise, and guidance on this, as it has been a really touch ride so far and I really just want to be able to reduce the brain fog if possible.

Thyroid Check Plus 4th October 2017
TSH 0.838 mIU/L (Range 0.27-4.20)
Free Thyroxine 15.1 pmol/L (Range 12.00-22.00)
Total Thyroxine (T4) 91.1 nmol/L (Range 59.00-154.00)
Free T3 5.38 pmol/L (Range 3.10-6.80)
Throglobulin Antiody <10 IU/mL (Range 0.00-115.00)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodis <9.0 IU/mL (Range 0.00-34.00)

Hormone Check Plus 11th October 2017
D.H.E.A Sulphate 9.92 umol/L (Range 0.44-13.40)
Follicle Stim Hormone 5.63 IU/L (Range 1.50-12.40)
Luteinising Hormone 6.44 IU/L (Range 1.70-8.60)
Testosterone 26.9 nmol/L (Range 7.60-31.40)
Free Testosterone 0.418 nmol/L (Range 0.30-1.00)
SHBG 57.9 nmol/L (Range 16.00-55.00)
Free Androgen Index 46.46 Ratio (Range 24.00-104.00)
17-BETA Oestradiol 129 pmol/L (Range 0.00-191.99)

Cortisol 28th June 2018
Waking 12.8 nmol/L (Range 6.00-21.00)
12pm 3.78 nmol/L (Range 1.50-7.60)
2pm 2.57 nmol/L (Range 0.00-5.49)
4pm 2.97 nmol/L (Range 0.00-5.49)
6pm <1.5 nmol/L (Range 0.00-4.49)
Before Bed <1.5 nmol/L (Range 0.00-1.99)

Full Hormone Check 24th May 2018
Free T4 17 pmol/L (Range 12 - 22.00)
TSH 1.14 mU/L (Range 0.4 - 4.0)
Cortisol 255 nmol/L (Range > 200)
FSH 4.7 IU/L (Range 1.50 - 12.40)
LH 5.8 IU/L (Range 1.70 - 8.60)
Prolactin 288 mU/L (Range < 450)
SHBG 68 nmol/L (Range 18.3 - 54.1)
Testosterone 25.9 nmol/L (Range 8.64 - 29)
Vitamin D 85 nmol/L (Range > 100)
IGF-1 36.7 nmol/L (Range 10.7 - 32.2)
Free Testosterone 0.354 nmol/L (Range 0.30 - 1.00)
NA 139 mmol/L (Range 135 - 145)
K 4.5 mmol/L (Range 3.6 - 5.2)
Ur 4.2 mmol/L
Cr 104 umol/L (Range 60 - 110)
eGFR >60 mL/min/1.732m2
Bili 24 umol/L (Range 0 - 21)
ALT 23 U/L (Range 7 - 55)
ALP 87 U/L (Range 37 - 116)
Alb 43 g/L (Range 35 - 55)
Adj Ca 2.36 mmol/L (Range 2.2 - 2.7)
Phos 1.01 mmol/L (Range 1.0 - 1.5)
Hb 149 g/L (Range 138 - 172)
PLT 200 10^9/L (Range 150 - 400)
WCC 3.6 10^9/L (Range 3.5 -11.0)
Neutrophils 1.7 10^9/L (Range 1.5 - 8.0)
Lymphocytes 1.5 10^9/L (Range 4.0 - 11.0)
Monocyte 0.4 10^9/L (Range 0.2 - 1.0)
Eisonophils 0 10^9/L (Range 0 - 6.0)
MCV 97.6 fL (Range 80 - 96)

Bloods 7th June 2018
Ferritin 111 ug/L (Range 41 - 400)
Vitamind B12 546 ng/L (Range > 400)
Folate 8.7 ug/L (Range 1.5 - 20.00)

250mcg Synacthen Test 7th June 2018
0 min Cortisol 351 nmol/L (Range >350)
30 min Cortisol 554 nmol/L (Range > 600

 

[General Orange]

Good to take boron to lower SHBG. SHBG is high which is not bad, but means estrogens are high (upregulates SHBG) as is clearly seen with the reading 17-BETA Oestradiol 129 pmol/L (Range 0.00-191.99).

First thing I would do is consider GABA active herbals with BDNF (brain derives neurotropic factor) to boost neurotransmitter repair, like ashwagandha + centella asiatica extract/Brain Essentials to get your brain back in homeostasis ASAP. You should combine the Brain Essentials with high absorbing Curcumin extract.

Probably coz of excessive epinephrine flood, adrenergic receptors have been down-regulated and now your are sensitive to cortisol and stress hormones? This down regulation is tricky to fix.

high dosage of Aspirin + Vit K2 and low dose cyproheptadin can help against stress hormones etc.

Edit: against brain fog what could help is: Taurine, Acetyl-L-carnitine, phosphastidylserine and red ginseng and eating lots of egg yolks with saturated fats

 

[General Orange]

If the cypro works against you, raw carrot salad with coconut / olive oil and or vinegar helps too.

A diet of milk, lots of orange juice /guavas/chamomile tea, cheese, oysters, eggs and liver. Without PUFA and with coconut oil, will support healing.

 

[male34london]

Thank you so much for your reply, it is really appreciated. So my estrogen level is a bit too high, and that could be upregulating my SHBG? Do you know how to lower estrogen level? I received my neurotransmitter results back today, here they are. It would be good to have your thoughts on them and if I should press ahead with the cypro above. Also I am in split minds wherever to look down the parasite route too. I got all these symptoms about a month and a half after returning from India where I had an extreme bout of food poisoning, so I am wondering whether all my symptoms could also be related to that or partially related to that. Here are the results:

Epinephrine 1.6 ug/g (Range 0.9 - 9.2)
Norepinephrine free 12.3 ug/g (Range 12 - 50)
Dopamine, free 178 ug/g (Range 90 - 220)
Serotonin 62.5 ug/g (Range 42 - 105)
Histamine 15 ug/g (Range 10 - 48)
GABA 4.1 umol/g (Range 1.4 - 5)
Glutamate 13 umol/g (Range 8 - 45)
Glycine 555 umol/g (Range 280 - 2800)
Phenethylamine (PEA) 41 nmol/g (Range 16 - 146)
Taurine 476 umol/g (Range 170 - 1200)
Tryptamine 0.27 umol/g (Range 0.08 - 0.9)
Tyramine 2 umol/g (Range 1.2 - 5.5)
Tyrosine 36 umol/g (Range 23 - 113)
5-Hydroxyindolacetic Acid 2106 ug/g (Range 1200 - 7200)
3,4-Dihydroxyphenylacetic Acid 499 ug/g (Range 360 - 1950)
3-Methoxytyramine (3-MT) 144 nmol/g (Range 65- 213)
Norepinephrine : Epinephrine Ratio 7.7 N/A (Range < 10)
Metanephrine 54 ug/g (Range 35 - 130)
Normetanephrine 112 ug/g (Range 50 - 400)
Creatinine 105 mg/dL (Range 35 - 240)

 

[General Orange]

Yes estrogens upregulate SHBG in the liver, in general this makes detoxifying more difficult for the liver. This could indeed be the cause of food poisoning, that gives you stress reactions, increased tryptophan metabolites and estrogens which gives you brain fog and the liver a hard time.

I'm not qualified to read all those lab results, alas. But to me the neurotransmitters look OK and in range. So I think it's more related to stress hormones and estrogens in the body.

Natural mixed Vitamin E with C works against estrogens.
The Boron you take should lower estrogen and shbg, so that is good supplement.
Also B6 in moderate high dosage 100mg+ helps against tryptophan metabolites caused by estrogens that are causing brain fog. this can be taken multiple times a day.
The Maca could act as natural progesterone as anti-estrogen, but im not sure. I think Pregnenolone or Progesterone itself would be a better choice.

 

[General Orange]

It could well be that the liver does not convert thyroid T4 into active T3. Maybe a T3 suppl. could help.
Against fatigue by low mitochondria activity, helps l-carnitine to increase ATP.

edit: And avoid food high in tryptophan and phyto-estrogens

 

[General Orange]

5-Hydroxyindolacetic Acid 2106 ug/g (Range 1200 - 7200) This is the Serotonin metabolite. It's not on very low side though.
Pathogens and stress can induce serotonin release. Taking cyproheptadine, an anti-serotonin could lower this.

 

[General Orange]

Lower estrogens:

• Beta sitosterol
• Milk thistle
• Zinc / oysters
• White button mushrooms

 

[male34london]

5-Hydroxyindolacetic Acid 2106 ug/g (Range 1200 - 7200) This is the Serotonin metabolite. It's not on very low side though.
Pathogens and stress can induce serotonin release. Taking cyproheptadine, an anti-serotonin could lower this.

Hi, I really appreciate your help on this. So this metabolite should be on the low side rather than high? So I should be looking to lower this further?

 

[male34london]

It could well be that the liver does not convert thyroid T4 into active T3. Maybe a T3 suppl. could help.
Against fatigue by low mitochondria activity, helps l-carnitine to increase ATP.

edit: And avoid food high in tryptophan and phyto-estrogens

My Free T3 came in at 5.38 pmol/l where the range was 3.10 - 6.80. So do you think I need to do a different T3 check?

 

[male34london]

Yes estrogens upregulate SHBG in the liver, in general this makes detoxifying more difficult for the liver. This could indeed be the cause of food poisoning, that gives you stress reactions, increased tryptophan metabolites and estrogens which gives you brain fog and the liver a hard time.

I'm not qualified to read all those lab results, alas. But to me the neurotransmitters look OK and in range. So I think it's more related to stress hormones and estrogens in the body.

Natural mixed Vitamin E with C works against estrogens.
The Boron you take should lower estrogen and shbg, so that is good supplement.
Also B6 in moderate high dosage 100mg+ helps against tryptophan metabolites caused by estrogens that are causing brain fog. this can be taken multiple times a day.
The Maca could act as natural progesterone as anti-estrogen, but im not sure. I think Pregnenolone or Progesterone itself would be a better choice.

Thank you, I will give that a shot. Do you know how you can upregulate neurotransmitters when they have been downregulated? I am guessing that fluctuation if adrenaline I had, knocked them out and they haven’t recovered.

I am going around in circles with my GP. Now we have 3 thoughts on the table:

1. Parasite as this all started a month after I became seriously ill in India.
2. My norepinephrine level is on the lower side and that can cause brain fog and tiredness.
3. My liver is not functioning as expected and I should do a liver cleanse. He thinks my Estrogen level is fine but I do question this as I agree, for a 34 year old male, it does look on the higher side!!

 

[General Orange]

My Free T3 came in at 5.38 pmol/l where the range was 3.10 - 6.80. So do you think I need to do a different T3 check?

They say to check your temps in the mornings.

 

[General Orange]

Beta sitosterols lower plasma estradiol levels and is precursor like cholesterol for pregnenolone for hormone support.
Milk thistle can help the liver metabolize estrogens to eliminate them faster.
And raw carrot fibers or cooked bamboo shoots prevent re-absorbing estrogens from the gut and keeps gut bacteria endotoxins in control.

 

[General Orange]

With food poisoning germs can release toxins in the body through the gut, those toxins could get past the blood brain barrier and cause brain fog.

You can strengthen that BBB with caffeine and centella asiatica / brain essentials edit: its best to get a asiaticoside extract to prevent infertility effects.

 

[General Orange]

Sounds like you have a lot of nitric oxide release that's causing troubles. Boosting glutathione should help lower NO.

Sulfur is required for the synthesis of glutathione (2).
Allium vegetables, shallots and onions, also boost glutathione levels — likely due to their sulfur-containing compounds (6, 7).
Avoid garlic, this depletes glutathione.

vitamin C may help increase glutathione levels by attacking free radicals first, thereby sparing glutathione.
vitamin C helps reprocess glutathione by converting oxidized glutathione back to its active form (8).

Furthermore, silymarin (milk thistle) has been shown to increase glutathione levels and prevent depletion in both test-tube and rodent studies (21, 22).

Numerous animal and test-tube studies have shown that turmeric and curcumin extract have the ability to increase glutathione levels (25, 26, 27, 28).

- source

 

[General Orange]

Thank you, I will give that a shot. Do you know how you can upregulate neurotransmitters when they have been downregulated? I am guessing that fluctuation if adrenaline I had, knocked them out and they haven’t recovered.

Area-1255: How to Upregulate Beta-Adrenergic Receptors (To improve Energy , Fat Loss etc) (Increasing B3,B2 Receptors)

 

[male34london]

Beta sitosterols lower plasma estradiol levels and is precursor like cholesterol for pregnenolone for hormone support.
Milk thistle can help the liver metabolize estrogens to eliminate them faster.
And raw carrot fibers or cooked bamboo shoots prevent re-absorbing estrogens from the gut and keeps gut bacteria endotoxins in control.

Wow this milk thistle sounds pretty amazing, do you know if there are any interactions with other drugs?

 

[male34london]

Area-1255: How to Upregulate Beta-Adrenergic Receptors (To improve Energy , Fat Loss etc) (Increasing B3,B2 Receptors)

Cool website and a good read. Will need to look into this a bit more and make a decision.

 

[Pedro Melo]

Bro I'm having the same problem as you... I also created a topic on PFS, if you can check and have any thoughts on what I can do you are most welcome.
What kind of exam did you do to check your neurotransmitter? Is it blood or other? Thanks

 

[Kyle Bigman]

Hi Bloom, I just wanted your thoughts on my situation:

I am 34 years old and started taking Propecia for slight frontal lobe recession in September 2014. I was taking 1mg per day until May 2015 when the side effects (loss of libido, painful erections, tiredness) were becoming too much to tolerate. So I stopped cold turkey and after a few days, everything bounced back and my side effects were gone.

In February 2016 I decided to take saw palmetto, sold by Holland and Barrett. I took this daily for about 3 weeks but the side effects kicked in much quicker this time and I had to stop taking the medication. Again things did bounce back, but now I look back at it, I don’t think my libido did. I used to be very sexually active, but due to my constant focus
on an upcoming year away travelling, I didn’t really think about the loss of libido much at all. This continued throughoutmy trip but wasn’t too prominent.

Then whilst away, I started taking minoxidil 5 topical solution. I started this in the February 2017 and everything seemed to be ok, no side effects, no real issues.

Then where it all went horribly wrong was July 4th 2017. I was out with a friend and was caught in a social situation that caused by adrenaline to go into overdrive, I started to sweat, felt like I couldn’t speak, even had to hold myself up as I felt really weak. Then from
that very moment all of my symptoms, that I still have today, came flooding in.

I now suffer from severe tiredness, muscle weakness (even walking my legs feel shattered), severe brain fog (feels like my head is wrapped in cling film), my brain is no way as sharp as it used to be, eye blur (to the point I have to constantly re-focus my eyes), reduced libido, reduced penile girth when erect, joint pain, peyronies disease with very painful erections. I also feel like my body cannot deal with stressful situations anymore. As soon as my brain has to overwork or think hard or deal with stress, m head either side (above ears) and around the back aches, I start to get a headache and my body (especially my legs) start to ache.

I have been to see many doctors, all of which say my blood results are good and as expected. I do question a few of my results, namely SHBG which I believe is way too high for my age. I would appreciate it if anyone had any views on my other results and if they are not where they should be.

Currently I am taking:
6g of Boron
1 x 100mg B6
2 x 4000 IU Vitamin D
2 x Magnesium Citrate
3 x 3 Billion Priobotic
3 x 1,500 mg Maca
4 x 1g Glycine

I have recently ordered a neurotransmitter test to see what is happening with those inside my brain. Hoping they will show up something.

I really appreciate anyones advise, and guidance on this, as it has been a really touch ride so far and I really just want to be able to reduce the brain fog if possible.

Thyroid Check Plus 4th October 2017
TSH 0.838 mIU/L (Range 0.27-4.20)
Free Thyroxine 15.1 pmol/L (Range 12.00-22.00)
Total Thyroxine (T4) 91.1 nmol/L (Range 59.00-154.00)
Free T3 5.38 pmol/L (Range 3.10-6.80)
Throglobulin Antiody <10 IU/mL (Range 0.00-115.00)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodis <9.0 IU/mL (Range 0.00-34.00)

Hormone Check Plus 11th October 2017
D.H.E.A Sulphate 9.92 umol/L (Range 0.44-13.40)
Follicle Stim Hormone 5.63 IU/L (Range 1.50-12.40)
Luteinising Hormone 6.44 IU/L (Range 1.70-8.60)
Testosterone 26.9 nmol/L (Range 7.60-31.40)
Free Testosterone 0.418 nmol/L (Range 0.30-1.00)
SHBG 57.9 nmol/L (Range 16.00-55.00)
Free Androgen Index 46.46 Ratio (Range 24.00-104.00)
17-BETA Oestradiol 129 pmol/L (Range 0.00-191.99)

Cortisol 28th June 2018
Waking 12.8 nmol/L (Range 6.00-21.00)
12pm 3.78 nmol/L (Range 1.50-7.60)
2pm 2.57 nmol/L (Range 0.00-5.49)
4pm 2.97 nmol/L (Range 0.00-5.49)
6pm <1.5 nmol/L (Range 0.00-4.49)
Before Bed <1.5 nmol/L (Range 0.00-1.99)

Full Hormone Check 24th May 2018
Free T4 17 pmol/L (Range 12 - 22.00)
TSH 1.14 mU/L (Range 0.4 - 4.0)
Cortisol 255 nmol/L (Range > 200)
FSH 4.7 IU/L (Range 1.50 - 12.40)
LH 5.8 IU/L (Range 1.70 - 8.60)
Prolactin 288 mU/L (Range < 450)
SHBG 68 nmol/L (Range 18.3 - 54.1)
Testosterone 25.9 nmol/L (Range 8.64 - 29)
Vitamin D 85 nmol/L (Range > 100)
IGF-1 36.7 nmol/L (Range 10.7 - 32.2)
Free Testosterone 0.354 nmol/L (Range 0.30 - 1.00)
NA 139 mmol/L (Range 135 - 145)
K 4.5 mmol/L (Range 3.6 - 5.2)
Ur 4.2 mmol/L
Cr 104 umol/L (Range 60 - 110)
eGFR >60 mL/min/1.732m2
Bili 24 umol/L (Range 0 - 21)
ALT 23 U/L (Range 7 - 55)
ALP 87 U/L (Range 37 - 116)
Alb 43 g/L (Range 35 - 55)
Adj Ca 2.36 mmol/L (Range 2.2 - 2.7)
Phos 1.01 mmol/L (Range 1.0 - 1.5)
Hb 149 g/L (Range 138 - 172)
PLT 200 10^9/L (Range 150 - 400)
WCC 3.6 10^9/L (Range 3.5 -11.0)
Neutrophils 1.7 10^9/L (Range 1.5 - 8.0)
Lymphocytes 1.5 10^9/L (Range 4.0 - 11.0)
Monocyte 0.4 10^9/L (Range 0.2 - 1.0)
Eisonophils 0 10^9/L (Range 0 - 6.0)
MCV 97.6 fL (Range 80 - 96)

Bloods 7th June 2018
Ferritin 111 ug/L (Range 41 - 400)
Vitamind B12 546 ng/L (Range > 400)
Folate 8.7 ug/L (Range 1.5 - 20.00)

250mcg Synacthen Test 7th June 2018
0 min Cortisol 351 nmol/L (Range >350)
30 min Cortisol 554 nmol/L (Range > 600

Are you lymphocytes low?