Low Toxin Supplements Niacin Increases NAD+ Significantly in Human Trial

[Validus]

Would this not be a similar case to back off on the supplements that cause more bile to be dumped into the system in an event such as a solar flare event, given that they also cause bile to be dumped in different degrees from person to person?

I like your thought process here.

 

[mosaic01]

Would this not be a similar case to back off on the supplements that cause more bile to be dumped into the system in an event such as a solar flare event, given that they also cause bile to be dumped in different degrees from person to person?

That's usually the recommendation.

 

[Nick]

So bear with me as I try to wrap my head around this and line it up with Dr Smith’s approach on this. If you were taking niacin as nicotinic acid and say that your bile was extremely toxic and your liver dumped a large amount to the point that some of that bile leaked into the blood. This would create a stress reaction within the body giving the flu like symptoms that are associated with detoxing excessively, which according to Dr Smith should not be a stressful experience unless you are trying to push things too hard. But this toxic bile would then be circulating throughout the body in a negative feedback loop until it is returned to the liver, in my mind this would be a mild case of septicaemia. Now hypothetically if you were still supplementing the zinc, selenium, and molybdenum, you would be inducing and stimulating further bile dumping.
Would this increase in toxic bile not cause damage as it is circulating around through every vein, artery and cell in the circulatory system under pressure, in the same manner that endotoxin would cause similar type of damage. Or am I missing a piece here.
Would this not be a similar case to back off on the supplements that cause more bile to be dumped into the system in an event such as a solar flare event, given that they also cause bile to be dumped in different degrees from person to person? This would mesh up with Dr Smith’s warning of this not being a game, and that pushing too hard on this detox protocol could set you back. This process sounds like it is based more in the camp of a long walking marathon as opposed to a fast sprint like process to be done in a manner that Dr Smith says,”should not hurt”.
@mosaic01 @Ras

I definitely think anything stressful that increases bile dumping would be a good reason to back off on dosages for any supplement that also increases bile excretion. So this would include things like solar flares but also just stressful events. This exact thing has caused me problems, upping niacin at the same time as major space weather was no good for me. Then later with calm space weather the same kind of dose change was not much of an issue.

The niacin is different from the stressful bile dumping in that it is helping all of the cells to increase detoxification, whereas I think the kind of bile leakage caused by stress has more to do with leakage from the liver.

 

[youngsinatra]

The niacin is different from the stressful bile dumping in that it is helping all of the cells to increase detoxification, whereas I think the kind of bile leakage caused by stress has more to do with leakage from the liver.

+1

 

[J.R.K]

I definitely think anything stressful that increases bile dumping would be a good reason to back off on dosages for any supplement that also increases bile excretion. So this would include things like solar flares but also just stressful events. This exact thing has caused me problems, upping niacin at the same time as major space weather was no good for me. Then later with calm space weather the same kind of dose change was not much of an issue.

The niacin is different from the stressful bile dumping in that it is helping all of the cells to increase detoxification, whereas I think the kind of bile leakage caused by stress has more to do with leakage from the liver.

Thanks for the response @Nick. If a person were going through a stressful event and a bile dumping were to occur, would it be a good idea not to take niacin at that time since it opens up more detoxification pathways and causes the cells to dump more toxic substances in essence adding fuel to the fire? Or would it help to alleviate some of the issues associated with the bile detox?
My understanding so far on handling the bile dump is to avoid mainly zinc, selenium, and molybdenum as they all will antagonize copper and force more bile especially if one is exceptionally toxic causing more toxins to enter the bloodstream and the subsequent negative feedback loop.
Would magnesium and potassium be the best supplements to use to alleviate the symptoms or would these force more calcium and sodium out of the cells and cause more problems in this hyper detox situation?

. So this would include things like solar flares

Is there an alert service that tracks these events? Or gives a forecast of solar flares ? Probably not but it is a question of curiosity.

 

[Peater]

Is there an alert service that tracks these events?

Spaceweatherlive app

 

[Nick]

Thanks for the response @Nick. If a person were going through a stressful event and a bile dumping were to occur, would it be a good idea not to take niacin at that time since it opens up more detoxification pathways and causes the cells to dump more toxic substances in essence adding fuel to the fire? Or would it help to alleviate some of the issues associated with the bile detox?

I'm still trying to figure that out for myself and I think there's a lot of nuance to what is the best approach with niacin. Sometimes if I feel like there is too much circulating bile in my blood a little niacin helps, but more makes it worse. What is a little and what is too much would be totally person and time dependent.

I suspect a big variable is where are the bottlenecks in clearing and managing toxins right then. Taking lots of niacin will ensure that lack of niacin is not the limiting factor, but maybe it becomes lack of magnesium or some other co-factor nutrient. Maybe the limiting factor becomes lymphatic movement or membrane integrity. So one could always try small amounts of niacin in such a situation and see if it helps, or even titrate the dose up by sipping a niacin drink every 15 or 30 minutes or something like that, stopping as soon as it stops improving symptoms. This could be risky though because the delay in negative effects from too much niacin has not always been the same time frame for me.

My understanding so far on handling the bile dump is to avoid mainly zinc, selenium, and molybdenum as they all will antagonize copper and force more bile especially if one is exceptionally toxic causing more toxins to enter the bloodstream and the subsequent negative feedback loop.
Would magnesium and potassium be the best supplements to use to alleviate the symptoms or would these force more calcium and sodium out of the cells and cause more problems in this hyper detox situation?

Magnesium and potassium seem to be the safest supplements in that situation but even topical magnesium is something to be careful with when under stress. It has sometimes brought on too much detox for me a few times when I was already feeling off. One time it even brought on several hours of fever.

Is there an alert service that tracks these events? Or gives a forecast of solar flares ? Probably not but it is a question of curiosity.

This is not an alert system but I like this page for checking every morning and evening because it has almost everything relevant on one page: Space Weather News
I look at X-ray flux, proton flux, electron flux, Kp index, and magnetometer readings, as well as the sun images looking for coronal holes.

 

[J.R.K]

Spaceweatherlive app

Thank you @Peater

I'm still trying to figure that out for myself and I think there's a lot of nuance to what is the best approach with niacin. Sometimes if I feel like there is too much circulating bile in my blood a little niacin helps, but more makes it worse. What is a little and what is too much would be totally person and time dependent.

I suspect a big variable is where are the bottlenecks in clearing and managing toxins right then. Taking lots of niacin will ensure that lack of niacin is not the limiting factor, but maybe it becomes lack of magnesium or some other co-factor nutrient. Maybe the limiting factor becomes lymphatic movement or membrane integrity. So one could always try small amounts of niacin in such a situation and see if it helps, or even titrate the dose up by sipping a niacin drink every 15 or 30 minutes or something like that, stopping as soon as it stops improving symptoms. This could be risky though because the delay in negative effects from too much niacin has not always been the same time frame for me.

Thank you for sharing this @Nick. I think that Dr Smith’s famous borrowed line from the old joke. If you are doing something and it hurts, stop doing it. Is probably the best guideline borrowing also from Dr Peat, listen to your body.

Magnesium and potassium seem to be the safest supplements in that situation but even topical magnesium is something to be careful with when under stress. It has sometimes brought on too much detox for me a few times when I was already feeling off. One time it even brought on several hours of fever.

Perhaps the best idea might be some more fiber like oatmeal to help bind the detoxing materials to help eliminate them more efficiently and effectively?

This is not an alert system but I like this page for checking every morning and evening because it has almost everything relevant on one page: Space Weather News
I look at X-ray flux, proton flux, electron flux, Kp index, and magnetometer readings, as well as the sun images looking for coronal holes.

What are your thoughts on EMF mitigation strategies? Example would be grounding, mineral based pendants or Blushield.

 

[Ras]

Elevated serum bile acids are a official diagnostic criteria for cholestasis. (bile stagnation)

So it has nothing to do with what the poster wrote.

 

[charlie]

Perhaps the best idea might be some more fiber like oatmeal to help bind the detoxing materials to help eliminate them more efficiently and effectively?

Yes exactly.

Thanks for the response @Nick. If a person were going through a stressful event and a bile dumping were to occur, would it be a good idea not to take niacin at that time since it opens up more detoxification pathways and causes the cells to dump more toxic substances in essence adding fuel to the fire?

Personally I always keep Niacin going so it can keep the detox moving along, I might just back down a bit.

My understanding so far on handling the bile dump is to avoid mainly zinc, selenium, and molybdenum as they all will antagonize copper and force more bile especially if one is exceptionally toxic causing more toxins to enter the bloodstream and the subsequent negative feedback loop.
Would magnesium and potassium be the best supplements to use to alleviate the symptoms or would these force more calcium and sodium out of the cells and cause more problems in this hyper detox situation?

For me I have detox events and then also copper detoxing events. So for me my approaches are different for each process and most of the time I am controlling the copper detox events.

Personally, I always keep potassium and magnesium going during detox events and also copper detox events. I always keep selenium going since it is crucial for the liver and detox although I sometimes cut it in half for copper detox events.

I also like to keep molybdenum and zinc going for detox events so that I can replace what is getting kicked out, but sometimes I will back down on the amount I am taking.

Since I use molybdenum and zinc to push on copper hard for copper detox events, I will obviously back way down or even stop it for a day or two if I am getting to uncomfortable but will still keep all the others going.

 

[Nick]

Perhaps the best idea might be some more fiber like oatmeal to help bind the detoxing materials to help eliminate them more efficiently and effectively?

Also charcoal.

What are your thoughts on EMF mitigation strategies? Example would be grounding, mineral based pendants or Blushield.

Avoidance and shielding are worth doing if it's reasonably possible but it can be very difficult and expensive. Reducing EMF exposure can create an increase in detox symptoms for some amount of time but in my experience there is some immediate relief as well.

For me grounding (directly on the ground, not a mat) does not feel like it helps with EMF effects at all, sometimes it makes them worse. But I've heard other people say that for them it does help so I think it varies for different people.

My experience so far experimenting with mineral-based EMF harmonizers is that they definitely do something that feels somewhat similar to reducing EMF but it does not feel exactly the same to me. It's not something I have a long enough experience experimenting with it yet to feel like I can draw any conclusions, even just for myself, and I suspect it may be a bit different from person to person as well. Here, as with reduction of EMF, there is the potential for increased detox symptoms, possibly even more so than with avoidance/shielding.

 

[J.R.K]

For me I have detox events and then also copper detoxing events. So for me my approaches are different for each process and most of the time I am controlling the copper detox events.

Personally, I always keep potassium and magnesium going during detox events and also copper detox events. I always keep selenium going since it is crucial for the liver and detox although I sometimes cut it in half for copper detox events.

I also like to keep molybdenum and zinc going for detox events so that I can replace what is getting kicked out, but sometimes I will back down on the amount I am taking.

Since I use molybdenum and zinc to push on copper hard for copper detox events, I will obviously back way down or even stop it for a day or two if I am getting to uncomfortable but will still keep all the others going.

This sounds like it might be uncomfortable as an experience, is it possible to have a detoxing event where it is not uncomfortable or painful as Dr Smith refers to it not to be painful? I suppose this would also depend on one’s pain tolerance levels as well.

 

[charlie]

This sounds like it might be uncomfortable as an experience, is it possible to have a detoxing event where it is not uncomfortable or painful as Dr Smith refers to it not to be painful? I suppose this would also depend on one’s pain tolerance levels as well.

Copper can be very uncomfortable and I am able to control it most the time. Regular detox events are like the flu or a cold and a lot of times you can feel yourself getting stronger during the detox event. Its a pretty amazing phenomenon all the way around.

 

[charlie]

This sounds like it might be uncomfortable as an experience, is it possible to have a detoxing event where it is not uncomfortable or painful as Dr Smith refers to it not to be painful? I suppose this would also depend on one’s pain tolerance levels as well.

Regular detox events you cannot really control, just gotta ride it out and deploy oxidizers and things like charcoal/soluble fiber. On a regular detox event, one moment you can be just fine, and then all of a sudden your liver decides it wants to purge and then the next moment you are feeling the effects.

 

[J.R.K]

Copper can be very uncomfortable and I am able to control it most the time. Regular detox events are like the flu or a cold and a lot of times you can feel yourself getting stronger during the detox event. Its a pretty amazing phenomenon all the way around.

How do you discern a regular bile dump detox to a copper detox, how are they different in comparison?

 

[charlie]

How do you discern a regular bile dump detox to a copper detox, how are they different in comparison?

Regular bile dump is like the flu. Copper dump is like this: Low Toxin Lifestyle - Copper Toxicity Symptoms and Copper Detox Symptoms

 

[J.R.K]

Regular bile dump is like the flu. Copper dump is like this: Low Toxin Lifestyle - Copper Toxicity Symptoms and Copper Detox Symptoms

Both scenarios sound like you feel like a bag of hammers, I can see why the art form in the supplements comes in, and the need to throttle back on the ones that encourage more excessive dumping.

 

[J.R.K]

Regular detox events you cannot really control, just gotta ride it out and deploy oxidizers and things like charcoal/soluble fiber. On a regular detox event, one moment you can be just fine, and then all of a sudden your liver decides it wants to purge and then the next moment you are feeling the effects.

Question on the oatmeal, barley psyllium fiber, and beans. Do they all serve the same purpose in order to bind the excess bile, or should a person utilize all of these items? Or is it a case of just using the one that works for you without negative issues?

 

[Richiebogie]

Hi @charlie,

3g nicotinamide is way higher than anything you could get naturally from food. The RDA is 10mg, so you are regularly taking 300 times the RDA.

I hope that you are actually detoxing copper and vitamin A as you claim, but is it possible your anxiety and flu symptoms are coming from your body processing the high dose supplements of nicotinamide, molybdenum, selenium, zinc etc?

Perhaps your stools do not contain retinol and copper after all…

You say you feel better overall but a lot of people feel better from following a doctor’s prescription, even if later they discover they were just poisoning themselves. The poisoning produces a high.

And you are definitely on a high at the moment!

I have heard reports of people feeling great just prior to dying suddenly, presumably because of the Covid jabs.

Is it possible to stop your niacin plus big 5 for a month to truly gauge your baseline?

You could remain on the sourdough, oats, bananas, beans and beef.

It would be tragic if our toxic bile guru ended up being overcome with self-administered toxins.

 

[youngsinatra]

If you have cellular NAD deficiency due to some kind of pathology or toxicity, you can have a much higher demand for NAD precursors. I think modern times require modern solutions.

Similiar to to individuals like @mostlylurking that need high doses of thiamine to overcome the metabolic inhibition of heavy metal toxicity.