My Body Doesn't Metabolise Calcium Properly And Nothing Seems To Help

JanP

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My diet was extremely low in calcium and phosphorus for 25 years. At the age of 25, I found out about Ray Peat and started drinking plenty of milk, eating plenty of cheese and generally getting plenty of calcium in the right ratio to phosphorus. I've had symptoms of calcium deficiency back then.

After 5 years of consistently getting plenty of milk and milk products, my calcium deficiency symptoms are even worse.

I have had high blood calcium (both ionized and total) and low blood phosphorus in all bloodwork results since 2013. It seems like the calcium I eat goes into the bloodstream and soft tissues instead of bones and teeth.

What I have tried so far:
Vitamin D - makes my hypercalcemia worse. Higher doses shoot my blood calcium levels so high I'm unable to sleep and eat for several days.
Vitamin K2-MK7 - the same as vitamin D, maybe even more violent
Vitamin K2-MK4 - the same as vitamin D, but less violent
Vitamin K1 - the most tolerable, but still makes my hypercalcemia worse
Vitamin A - synthetic retinol definitely makes me feel worse
Silicone - makes hypercalcemia worse

Boron - is great for my testosterone, but causes tooth decay and doesn't help with hypercalcemia

Magnesium, Zinc, Copper, Potassium, Vitamin C - doesn't help

Manganese - this is the only thing that have somewhat positive effect, but just a little bit

What could be wrong? Does my GI tract (that's used to very low calcium intakes) absorb way too much calcium to the point of overflooding the whole system? Am I still deficient in phosphorus, and this causes problems with calcium metabolism? Are my parathyroid glands messed up? Something completely different?
 

jamies33

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Have you tried any hormones, like pregnenolone or progesterone? What about cream or cultured butter or cheese?
 

JanP

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All hormones I have ever tried, pregnenolone, progesterone, thyroid and especially androsterone causes rapid tooth decay for me. Not sure if this is because they are making my hypercalcemia worse, or for some other reason, but they certainly doesn't help.

I prefer cheese and cultured butter because I digest it much better than milk, but sadly, it doesn't help with my calcium issues.
 

jamies33

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I ask because my first thoughts go to stress, like cortisol, spiking blood calcium from skeletal degradation, and vitamin K which cultured cheese and butter are rich in (I see you have tried vitamin K supplements). I think the whole system has to be considered though, to be fair
 

JanP

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I ask because my first thoughts go to stress, like cortisol, spiking blood calcium from skeletal degradation, and vitamin K which cultured cheese and butter are rich in (I see you have tried vitamin K supplements). I think the whole system has to be considered though, to be fair
This is actually spot on. I'm constantly stressing about everything and my mind is in constant state of anxiety, even if there is no particular reason.

I have lost most of my teeth and broke my leg when I was going trough the most psychologically stressful periods of my life.

Would you suggest getting more natural vitamin K instead of the supplements?
 

marcar72

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Am I still deficient in phosphorus, and this causes problems with calcium metabolism?

This could very well be your issue. Maybe try taking calcium foods down a notch or two and implement more phosphorus rich foods into your diet. :2cents:
 

JanP

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This could very well be your issue. Maybe try taking calcium foods down a notch or two and implement more phosphorus rich foods into your diet. :2cents:
Yes. I was also eating very little (1000kcal a day or so) for quite a long time before finding out about Ray. Phosphorus deficiency is common in starved people, after they reintroduce normal food intake again.

But could it be possible that my phosphorus did not normalized after years of consistently drinking 2 quarts of milk a day?
 

marcar72

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But could it be possible that my phosphorus did not normalized after years of consistently drinking 2 quarts of milk a day?

I could be very possible as I feel that the calcium/phosphorus ratio (1/1) that's touted around here isn't ideal. Maybe try dropping your milk to 1 quart/day and replace the other quart with 1/2 pound of ruminant meat. You might want to even drop the milk completely for a couple to a few weeks initially and up the ruminant meat to 1 pound/day. :2cents:
 

jamies33

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This is actually spot on. I'm constantly stressing about everything and my mind is in constant state of anxiety, even if there is no particular reason.

I have lost most of my teeth and broke my leg when I was going trough the most psychologically stressful periods of my life.

Would you suggest getting more natural vitamin K instead of the supplements?
If this is the root of it, I dont think calcium foods will help you (right now) and I think your bodily senses are giving you an accurate picture.

Your symptoms honestly remind me a bit of osteoporosis, common during menopause (no disrespect), where cortisol and estrogen are unopposed (preg opposed or lowers cortisol, and progesterone opposes estrogen).

I understand you have tried hormones. In my non medical opinion I feel like they are great bandaids for such a condition and maybe even ultra low doses for a short period of time could probably change the system back to growth and regeneration, especially when supported by diet and lifestyle
 

Energizer

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My diet was extremely low in calcium and phosphorus for 25 years. At the age of 25, I found out about Ray Peat and started drinking plenty of milk, eating plenty of cheese and generally getting plenty of calcium in the right ratio to phosphorus. I've had symptoms of calcium deficiency back then.

After 5 years of consistently getting plenty of milk and milk products, my calcium deficiency symptoms are even worse.

I have had high blood calcium (both ionized and total) and low blood phosphorus in all bloodwork results since 2013. It seems like the calcium I eat goes into the bloodstream and soft tissues instead of bones and teeth.

What I have tried so far:
Vitamin D - makes my hypercalcemia worse. Higher doses shoot my blood calcium levels so high I'm unable to sleep and eat for several days.
Vitamin K2-MK7 - the same as vitamin D, maybe even more violent
Vitamin K2-MK4 - the same as vitamin D, but less violent
Vitamin K1 - the most tolerable, but still makes my hypercalcemia worse
Vitamin A - synthetic retinol definitely makes me feel worse
Silicone - makes hypercalcemia worse

Boron - is great for my testosterone, but causes tooth decay and doesn't help with hypercalcemia

Magnesium, Zinc, Copper, Potassium, Vitamin C - doesn't help

Manganese - this is the only thing that have somewhat positive effect, but just a little bit

What could be wrong? Does my GI tract (that's used to very low calcium intakes) absorb way too much calcium to the point of overflooding the whole system? Am I still deficient in phosphorus, and this causes problems with calcium metabolism? Are my parathyroid glands messed up? Something completely different?

High estrogen or hypothyroidism can weaken the bones and draw calcium from inappropriate places to meet the demand. A thyroid supplement and eggshell calcium can be useful for increasing the retention of calcium. I would also recommend inspecting those supplements carefully, in my experience a lot of supplements have just made my symptoms worse and are a complete waste of money. If you're into weight lifting that's also a good way to strengthen the bones.
 
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johnwester130

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what vitamin a, vitamin d, vitamin k2 brands were you using

In my opinion, only about 2 or 3 supplements on the market are worth it
 
K

Kratos

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Cut the foods with phytic acid, no grains and nuts for two weeks and see how you feel. Most likely it’s binding to many minerals including calcium and your body is dumping it and not absorbing it.
 

JanP

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I could be very possible as I feel that the calcium/phosphorus ratio (1/1) that's touted around here isn't ideal. Maybe try dropping your milk to 1 quart/day and replace the other quart with 1/2 pound of ruminant meat. You might want to even drop the milk completely for a couple to a few weeks initially and up the ruminant meat to 1 pound/day. :2cents:
Good point, I need to try a diet with more meat and less dairy
 

JanP

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High estrogen or hypothyroidism can weaken the bones and draw calcium from inappropriate places to meet the demand. A thyroid supplement and eggshell calcium can be useful for increasing the retention of calcium. I would also recommend inspecting those supplements carefully, in my experience a lot of supplements have just made my symptoms worse and are a complete waste of money. If you're into weight lifting that's also a good way to strengthen the bones.
Thyroid did the opposite for me, have tried various brands :(
 

JanP

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what vitamin a, vitamin d, vitamin k2 brands were you using

In my opinion, only about 2 or 3 supplements on the market are worth it
What brands would you recommend? I belive I tried every brand out there. Haidut's Idealabs, Thorne, Carlson, Source Naturals, Solgar, Nature's Way, Bluebonnet, Superior Source, Jarrow... Even the injectable vitamin D from the doctor and of course high intake of liver.
 

JanP

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Cut the foods with phytic acid, no grains and nuts for two weeks and see how you feel. Most likely it’s binding to many minerals including calcium and your body is dumping it and not absorbing it.
I haven't touched a grain, nut, seed or any high oxalate food in the past 3 years
 

johnwester130

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What brands would you recommend? I belive I tried every brand out there. Haidut's Idealabs, Thorne, Carlson, Source Naturals, Solgar, Nature's Way, Bluebonnet, Superior Source, Jarrow... Even the injectable vitamin D from the doctor and of course high intake of liver.

adk by forefronthealth is my favourite

it's balanced perfectly and has no vitamin E
 
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