Stubborn Dehydration, High Blood Calcium, Low Phosphorus, Dry Mouth, Excessive Mucus

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BearWithMe

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You can try taking some active B6 with a meal, as it raises histamine which plays a vital role increasing secretions such as tears, saliva (in my experience), etc. So if you get improvement in dry mouth and eyes from it that's a good sign. Also histidine + active B6 will work even better.

I used to have insane dry mouth all the time that started during Peating. Only after taking steps to raise histamine and prevent excessive breakdown both in the short term and the long term did the issue solve itself. That involved taking a lot of peat ideas out that I incorporated into my diet.
This is interesting, because B6-rich foods usually makes me feel better. Would you share what steps you took and what Peat ideas you took out that improved your dry mouth, please?
 
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BearWithMe

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I thought this would be an obvious question but what's your environment like? Humidity %? What kind of living? I work in an environment with open face cooling and it always leaves me parched.
I'm living in the central Europe, in the place with humidity around 55%, maybie a bit higher in the spring and autumn. No air conditioning in my home, in my work or in my car. Good point though, air conditioning in public transport makes me feel worse (I'm rarely using public transport these days)
 
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Screenshot of CRON-o-meter nutrient profiling?
WmllQ7L.png

My vitamin D and E intakes are low because they are making my symptoms much worse. I'm getting plenty of full-body sunlight in the summer and using Sperti in the winter, I hope that would make up for the low dietary D intake.
 
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Hans

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WmllQ7L.png

My vitamin D and E intakes are low because they are making my symptoms much worse. I'm getting plenty of full-body sunlight in the summer and using Sperti in the winter, I hope that would make up for the low dietary D intake.
Do you eat meat? If phosphorous is low, it might indicate too low intake. If calcium and phosphorus were high, it would indicate inadequate calcium intake and elevated PTH. Also, your zinc intake relative to copper might be too low, thus you might have low histamine. Copper aids in breaking down histamine.
Do you sweat a lot? Sweating a lot exacerbates zinc loss.
 

Waynish

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What form of magnesium? I bet you'll see benefits from just a few epsom salt baths.
 
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Do you eat meat? If phosphorous is low, it might indicate too low intake. If calcium and phosphorus were high, it would indicate inadequate calcium intake and elevated PTH. Also, your zinc intake relative to copper might be too low, thus you might have low histamine. Copper aids in breaking down histamine.
Do you sweat a lot? Sweating a lot exacerbates zinc loss.
I do eat meat, not every day though. The low phosphorus high calcium / high phosphorus high calcium distinction is super important, this is something I never saw mentioned anywhere, and I have actually searched for this, many thanks for pointing it out! I guess I need more meat (which would also help increase my zinc intake). Awesome!
 

redsun

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This is interesting, because B6-rich foods usually makes me feel better. Would you share what steps you took and what Peat ideas you took out that improved your dry mouth, please?

WmllQ7L.png

My vitamin D and E intakes are low because they are making my symptoms much worse. I'm getting plenty of full-body sunlight in the summer and using Sperti in the winter, I hope that would make up for the low dietary D intake.

Well since you have cronometer we can see directly what's going on a bit better. Your vitamin C intake for this day is high end, which is typical for Peating. You obviously need vitamin C but very high amounts can breakdown histamine excessively. Copper isn't that high but I assume you have much higher copper intake some days when you eat liver and that will definitely keep histamine down. Personally I tend to have no more than 1mg of copper a day and when I start to edge over that nearing 2mg I get dry mouth, same happens when my vitamin C is too high over RDA. Very high calcium intake (which is 2g, peat recommendations) may release histamine and in the long run lower histamine over time.

The higher histidine is in the diet compared to methionine the less methionine you'll have to deactivate histamine. B vitamins also increase methylation making more SAM-e but the only thing you can really do about that is to not take B vitamin supplements that will raise methylation and just get adequate amounts from food. Excessive supplementation of B1, B2, B12, folate will increase methylation. Adequate choline is good along with b5 to make acetylcholine which has many effects similar to histamine.

As I already said B6 will acutely raise histamine. B3 also reduces methylation which can help prevent histamine from being deactivated by methylation. Zinc helps calm the sympathetic nervous system as well as being involved, along with B2, in activating B6(which then makes histamine).

Long term in a nutshell keeping vitamin C at adequate levels and not excessive (90-200mg), avoiding excessive copper (meaning liver is a no no, avoiding high copper foods as reasonably as possible), having a favorable histidine:methionine ratio. But this is long term... may take some time this way. Thats why I recommend some active B6 (+ histidine is optional but optimal), and a couple hundred milligrams of niacinamide for raising histamine more quickly.
 
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danishispsychic

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Yes, drinking water makes me feel much worse, agree 100%. Majority of my fluids comes from OJ and milk.

My family never eated any milk products and my overall calcium intake was very low all my childhood and adolescence, but I remember having the same exact hypercalcemia symptoms I have now. I think I'm still calcium deficient, maybie my body can't metabolize and absorb it properly, so it just floats in my bloodstream and deposits where it should not.

I never tested for estrogen, but it is on to-do list for my next bloodwork!
i replaced milk with Oj with Calcium and it helped me a lot - also i get most of my D from light and sun - it does help
 

tara

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At the moment, my diet is based on plenty of milk, cheese and fruit (OJ), with some eggs, beef meat and occasional liver. My overall fluid intake is about 1,5-2 liter /quart a day.

I'm eating like that for about three years, have tried various different diets before with very little effect on my dehydration.
I would be dehydrated if I consistently had less than 2l fluids per day. Why are you drinking so little if you are dehydrated? Are you not thirsty? Have you tried making sure you drink more? If the system is having trouble maintaining fluid balance, I think spreading it out through the day can be helpful - eg 1 glass every hour, not 1 litre 2-3 times a day.

Are you losing too much fluids? Eg peeing excessively and clear?

For some reason, eating salt is causing me intense nausea, and also actually makes the dehydration worse.
I would expect eating salt when you not drinking enough water could be expected to make dehydration worse.

Cheese and milk in large quantities are constipating for many people. Not sure if it's about the high calcium, or possibly casomorphins, or lack of suitable fibre, all in a somewhat low metabolism, or what.

If that screen shot is typical, you are on a low calorie diet with insufficient water and a high calcium intake.
Before assuming complicated causes and solutions, I'd suggest trying some simple obvious ones:
Increase water to at least 2 - 2.5 l, maybe more (from whatever source work for you)
Reduce calcium intake - maybe 1-1.5g? and see what effect that has
If you are not getting some sunshine regularly to support calcium metabolism, do that
Increase overall calories to more normal male requirements - eg another 500 - 1000 cals.

Another hunch is to try varying diet more. Not sure if it would turn up benefits for you, but could give you a chance to broaden nutrient intake and discover that there are other foods that benefit you.
Personally, I'd miss veges on your diet.
 

shepherdgirl

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I'm male and I'm young, so I think Sjogren’s is not very likely, but I definitely have hypothyroid symptoms, including low body temps and pulse.
Just an observation - it's interesting that you have borderline low TSH yet also have hypo symptoms.
 

Summer

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i replaced milk with Oj with Calcium and it helped me a lot - also i get most of my D from light and sun - it does help

I’m curious if you avoid other kinds of dairy too, and if so how do you obtain sufficient calories? No grains and pufa makes it difficult enough, but no dairy? It would seem hard to get over 1000.
 
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So many great, informative and helpful replies! Thank you all!
 
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Well since you have cronometer we can see directly what's going on a bit better. Your vitamin C intake for this day is high end, which is typical for Peating. You obviously need vitamin C but very high amounts can breakdown histamine excessively. Copper isn't that high but I assume you have much higher copper intake some days when you eat liver and that will definitely keep histamine down. Personally I tend to have no more than 1mg of copper a day and when I start to edge over that nearing 2mg I get dry mouth, same happens when my vitamin C is too high over RDA. Very high calcium intake (which is 2g, peat recommendations) may release histamine and in the long run lower histamine over time.

The higher histidine is in the diet compared to methionine the less methionine you'll have to deactivate histamine. B vitamins also increase methylation making more SAM-e but the only thing you can really do about that is to not take B vitamin supplements that will raise methylation and just get adequate amounts from food. Excessive supplementation of B1, B2, B12, folate will increase methylation. Adequate choline is good along with b5 to make acetylcholine which has many effects similar to histamine.

As I already said B6 will acutely raise histamine. B3 also reduces methylation which can help prevent histamine from being deactivated by methylation. Zinc helps calm the sympathetic nervous system as well as being involved, along with B2, in activating B6(which then makes histamine).

Long term in a nutshell keeping vitamin C at adequate levels and not excessive (90-200mg), avoiding excessive copper (meaning liver is a no no, avoiding high copper foods as reasonably as possible), having a favorable histidine:methionine ratio. But this is long term... may take some time this way. Thats why I recommend some active B6 (+ histidine is optional but optimal), and a couple hundred milligrams of niacinamide for raising histamine more quickly.
There are some incredibly important informations in this post. Many thanks!!

Are the effects of the copper on the dry mouth immediate? It happens to me lately that I will start eating liver and I can't even finish it, because I get so dry mouth midway trough I can't swallow.

This would also explain why my digestion gets worse after supplementing B1, which should improve digestion. Wow.

I will keep my eye on the copper intake, trying to keep it around 1mg, and also lower my vitamin C intake, and get P5P supplement.

How to get enough vitamin A without liver? It was basically my only source of retinol at this point. :(
 
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BearWithMe

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I would be dehydrated if I consistently had less than 2l fluids per day. Why are you drinking so little if you are dehydrated? Are you not thirsty? Have you tried making sure you drink more? If the system is having trouble maintaining fluid balance, I think spreading it out through the day can be helpful - eg 1 glass every hour, not 1 litre 2-3 times a day.

Are you losing too much fluids? Eg peeing excessively and clear?


I would expect eating salt when you not drinking enough water could be expected to make dehydration worse.

Cheese and milk in large quantities are constipating for many people. Not sure if it's about the high calcium, or possibly casomorphins, or lack of suitable fibre, all in a somewhat low metabolism, or what.

If that screen shot is typical, you are on a low calorie diet with insufficient water and a high calcium intake.
Before assuming complicated causes and solutions, I'd suggest trying some simple obvious ones:
Increase water to at least 2 - 2.5 l, maybe more (from whatever source work for you)
Reduce calcium intake - maybe 1-1.5g? and see what effect that has
If you are not getting some sunshine regularly to support calcium metabolism, do that
Increase overall calories to more normal male requirements - eg another 500 - 1000 cals.

Another hunch is to try varying diet more. Not sure if it would turn up benefits for you, but could give you a chance to broaden nutrient intake and discover that there are other foods that benefit you.
Personally, I'd miss veges on your diet.
Higher fluid intake -> more urination -> more flushed electrolytes -> more dehydration. I feel by far the best on 1.5-2 liters a day.

You are absolutely right about my caloric intake, though, it really should be higher.
 
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BearWithMe

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Fat malabsorption might be another thing worth looking into.
This is actually very possible, never have realized there is a connection. I can't find many informations on it (beside a brief mention on healthline), do you have any resources to learn more about the mechanism behind this, and how to improve the condition, please?

Could this also cause the derangement in calcium / phosphorus levels?
 
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redsun

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There are some incredibly important informations in this post. Many thanks!!

Are the effects of the copper on the dry mouth immediate? It happens to me lately that I will start eating liver and I can't even finish it, because I get so dry mouth midway trough I can't swallow.

This would also explain why my digestion gets worse after supplementing B1, which should improve digestion. Wow.

I will keep my eye on the copper intake, trying to keep it around 1mg, and also lower my vitamin C intake, and get P5P supplement.

How to get enough vitamin A without liver? It was basically my only source of retinol at this point. :(

The copper would not have that quick of an effect, it has to be digested and absorbed which of course takes time. There are a few other pro-methylation nutrients in liver that may have a similar histamine lowering effect as well. But I also get similar reactions to when I used to try and take bites of liver (which I no longer do). I would feel disgusted eating it and I would not salivate compared to eating food normally.

If you are eating something thats not that appetizing or you are disgusted by, the normal secretions that release in response to food may not happen like usual.

Your vitamin A intake has probably been way over RDA many times if you have been eating liver for awhile. You will definitely be okay with vitamin A from dairy/eggs.
 
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danishispsychic

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I’m curious if you avoid other kinds of dairy too, and if so how do you obtain sufficient calories? No grains and pufa makes it difficult enough, but no dairy? It would seem hard to get over 1000.
i eat a lot of pasta , i go in spurts with diary , some eggs , some meat and fish when i want it , i drink tons of coke and soda and oj , the only things i dont eat are legumes, salads, most veggies, veg oils, deep fried foods, sushi, and of course anything in the cabbage family bc YUCK- lol. i will eat cheese in some foods. i pretty much eat whatever i want.. except the above. i eat about 2k cal a day .
 

tara

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Higher fluid intake -> more urination -> more flushed electrolytes -> more dehydration. I feel by far the best on 1.5-2 liters a day.

You are absolutely right about my caloric intake, though, it really should be higher.
Ah.
Does that apply even if your fluids come from calorie-dense smoothies or similar?
When I under-eat, I can lose fluids too.
A system without sufficient energy can struggle to maintain fluid control. Sufficient fuel is one of the requirements for your cells having sufficient energy.

If you think you are not digesting food effectively, maybe digestive enzymes would be a possible thing to try for a bit to get going?
I don't have much experience of them, but I think some people find them helpful if their own systems are struggling to produce enough, eg lipase etc.
 
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