Morning Dizziness, Numb Fingers, Fainting, Heart Pain

[ilovethesea]

This question is for my mom, she's early 70s and had a few episodes of panic attacks and fainting over the past year. I mentioned in another thread that she had to have a pacemaker put in 2 weeks ago, as the last time she fainted she hit her head on concrete and her heart rate dropped to 29. (Normally it's in the 70s/80s.)

Now that she's back home after the surgery, she's still not feeling her normal self. She seems under extreme high stress, and is very anxious/depressed about having 'health problems' now. You have to walk on eggshells with her now to not get her upset, and she mentioned having a heart pain this morning for a minute during what she perceived as a stressful conversation. I told her to have a spoonful of sugar and it went away right away.

Also, a new symptom that she didn't have before is dizziness upon rising in the morning - particularly if she stands up too quickly. Also at the same time, numbness in the fingers (which goes away after a little while in the morning). Would this be hypotension? She did go back to the hospital to find out about the dizziness but they ran a bunch of heart tests and said everything was fine.

I believe she has high estrogen, low thyroid, high cortisol based on other symptoms - arthritis, belly fat, thinning hair, hot flashes.

She will take a tiny amount of Progest-E and some vitamin D drops but now the doctors have scared her off of doing anything else that is not "approved". They told her not to take aspirin or the Thorne vitamin K anymore - said it would cause dangerous blood clots. And that Tylenol or Advil were better!

I think she needs thyroid but she gets mad at me when I even mention it, as we wouldn't have a way of getting a prescription and it would involve fighting a lot of doctors, probably having to "go outside of the system" to get it into the country (which is what I have to do myself). She's not up for that fight and says she has to put her trust in the cardiologist.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what we can do?

 

[HDD]

Sorry about your mom, ilovethesea. I am pretty sure most of my family needs thyroid but at this time they aren't "hearing" me. Since I prepare the meals, I incorporate foods that would be heading in the right direction. Maybe your mom would be open to changing her diet? I buy chicken necks and make a broth that I use for soups. My favorite is a potato soup.This would give your mom some t3 the way cultures used to get it. I also make fish head stock that I use for clam chowder and a few other dishes. Does she use/take coconut oil? Would she eat a carrot or carrot salad daily? Coffee? Jello? The doctor shouldn't have anything negative to say about these dietary changes except maybe the coffee.

Well cooked kale for vitamin k. Sunshine for red light/vitamin D. Shrimp, scallops, and liver would all be good.

 

[visionofstrength]

This question is for my mom, she's early 70s and had a few episodes of panic attacks and fainting over the past year. ...

She will take a tiny amount of Progest-E and some vitamin D drops but now the doctors have scared her off of doing anything else that is not "approved". They told her not to take aspirin or the Thorne vitamin K anymore - said it would cause dangerous blood clots. And that Tylenol or Advil were better!

I think she needs thyroid but she gets mad at me when I even mention it, as we wouldn't have a way of getting a prescription and it would involve fighting a lot of doctors, probably having to "go outside of the system" to get it into the country (which is what I have to do myself). She's not up for that fight and says she has to put her trust in the cardiologist.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what we can do?

There are still three freedoms our benevolent despots have so far not been able to take away: 1. The food we choose to eat; 2. The air we choose to breathe; 3. The light we choose to see.

And so, as long as you think of peating as simply making choices about food, air and light, then the despots may not stop you from helping Mom. For example, thyroid has been supplemented for thousands of years as fish head broth; so, try making a pleasant warm broth that has thyroid in it. Progesterone has been supplemented for thousands of years from fish eggs, and mountain peoples made annual spring treks to the ocean to bring it back to their daughters in fertility rites; so, try mixing a salted melted butter or olive oil that has progesterone it.

But perhaps most importantly, your Mom seems caught in a kind of wasting disease called cachexia, having suffered from the industrial degradation of our food supply for so long that her will to eat now plummets, as does her very will to live, her inner metabolic fire. So, please try to have Mom sip milk and sugar in some way, all day long. In her coffee? In cocoa? In ice cream? Anything you can think of to prompt her to take sips, at least once an hour. And keep trying to give her a little more each day. It will be hard at first, but once she becomes accustomed to it, she may do so more willingly.

And then, as to the air we breathe? The elderly hyperventilate when they breathe, and with each breath they are in essence blowing out their own metabolic candle. Try to have Mom breathe a minute or so in a bag 2-3 times a day, or as often as she will, since this counteracts hyperventilation.

And then, the light we see? Try to have Mom sit or lay under incandescent light with her bare shoulders or arms exposed, as many hours of the day as she can, even when she naps. Our blood is red because we all must absorb the red spectrum of sunlight, the same way we must eat or breathe, and this red spectrum is found in incandescent light.

Food, air, light. These are the freedoms we still have left. Let us cherish them. and our Moms, while we can.

 

[marcar72]

This is just off the top of my head, and it's from some of the things that I've been researching here lately in regards to my own health.

Hell, at 70 years of age it could be anything. It could just be "old age" but I don't really buy into that line of reasoning. Eventually age gets all of us scragglers anyways, though.

But just off the top of my head with the symptoms you described, I would check to ensure that your mother's magnesium and zinc levels are adequate and not in the "mild chronic deficiency" range. Optimally I would check to ensure that your mother is getting all her nutritional needs met across the board.

Magnesium as I know it is the "relaxation" mineral in which more might be needed to stop the panic attacks. Zinc as I know it is the "immunity" mineral in which more might be needed to ensure a robust immune system ready to handle any acute/chronic infections that may crop up. :2cents

 

[ilovethesea]

Sorry about your mom, ilovethesea. I am pretty sure most of my family needs thyroid but at this time they aren't "hearing" me. Since I prepare the meals, I incorporate foods that would be heading in the right direction. Maybe your mom would be open to changing her diet? I buy chicken necks and make a broth that I use for soups. My favorite is a potato soup.This would give your mom some t3 the way cultures used to get it. I also make fish head stock that I use for clam chowder and a few other dishes. Does she use/take coconut oil? Would she eat a carrot or carrot salad daily? Coffee? Jello? The doctor shouldn't have anything negative to say about these dietary changes except maybe the coffee.

Well cooked kale for vitamin k. Sunshine for red light/vitamin D. Shrimp, scallops, and liver would all be good.

Thanks Diane those are great suggestions! I didn't think of the kale or the broth. (I'll have to make the broths for her as she'll never touch the necks and heads herself.) She does cook with coconut oil but seems to have digestive upset if it's anything more than 1 tsp daily. I guess it's a start. In the past she's had gallstones so has some trouble processing fats.

I have convinced her to do the daily carrot if not carrot salad, she's also been making commercial Jello since coming home from the hospital, I guess it's ok? For some reason she perceives working with the Great Lakes as too much work. I think the biggest diet challenge is the dairy as she hates milk, thinks cheese and ice cream will make her fat, and my parents find Greek yogurt too expensive. Oh, and she will never eat liver or oysters! Shrimp should be ok though.

I want to buy her the heat lamps to sit under but she thinks that's crazy!

It's so hard to get someone to hear a different point of view after the "authorities" get hold of them... I feel they have caused such trauma, fear and stress, that alone has caused my mom some health declines. And now the inability to do anything they don't "approve" of - it's like they want you to turn your life over to them completely.

 

[ilovethesea]

Almost anything that looks like a pill that she puts in her mouth will be regulated as a drug, or else not approved. I'm sorry but it's the way that our benevolent despots have seen fit to ensure that the elderly cannot possibly live very long, since the longer the elderly live, the more bankrupt these despots become. Literally, each month that is added to the average age of the elderly population means some unimaginable billions of dollars in social security and healthcare payments that the despots have fraudulently promised to pay. Indeed, you are more likely to die from so-called medical accidents than from any other cause. Money-saving coincidence? Or avoidable manslaughter? You decide.

I'm so sorry. I may have upset you. Perhaps I should have said nothing, but I couldn't. But now, my very heartfelt answer to your question: How to help your mother? There are still three freedoms our benevolent despots have so far not been able to take away: 1. The food we choose to eat; 2. The air we choose to breathe; 3. The light we choose to see.

And so, as long as you think of peating as simply making choices about food, air and light, then the despots may not stop you from helping Mom. For example, thyroid has been supplemented for thousands of years as fish head broth; so, try making a pleasant warm broth that has thyroid in it. Progesterone has been supplemented for thousands of years from fish eggs, and mountain peoples made annual spring treks to the ocean to bring it back to their daughters in fertility rites; so, try mixing a salted melted butter or olive oil that has progesterone it.

But perhaps most importantly, your Mom seems caught in a kind of wasting disease called cachexia, having suffered from the industrial degratation of our food supply for so long that her will to eat now plummets, as does her very will to live, her inner metabolic fire. So, please try to have Mom sip milk and sugar in some way, all day long. In her coffee? In cocoa? In ice cream? Anything you can think of to prompt her to take sips, at least once an hour. And keep trying to give her a little more each day. It will be hard at first, but once she becomes accustomed to it, she may do so more willingly.

And then, as to the air we breathe? The elderly hyperventilate when they breathe, and with each breath they are in essence blowing out their own metabolic candle. Try to have Mom breathe a minute or so in a bag 2-3 times a day, or as often as she will, since this counteracts hyperventilation.

And then, the light we see? Try to have Mom sit or lay under incandescent light with her bare shoulders or arms exposed, as many hours of the day as she can, even when she naps. Our blood is red because we all must absorb the red spectrum of sunlight, the same way we must eat or breathe, and this red spectrum is found in incandescent light.

Food, air, light. These are the freedoms we still have left. Let us cherish them. and our Moms, while we can.

Oh no I agree with you - the whole system is a disgrace, and criminal. I became disillusioned from an early age with doctors and mainstream medicine... probably it's also my generation, young people don't have the faith in institutions that baby boomers did. My mom even though she's seen how wrong medicine treated me with my thyroid problems, still trusts them. Like it causes her extreme stress when I speak negatively of doctors.

I don't know if she's at the stage yet where she would accept something she thinks is "radical" like the incandescent light, or milk and sugar every hour. She still thinks sugar is the enemy. Her appetite is fine but I think her diet is deficient in a lot of the important nutrients. It's a fairly typical diet... heavy on the starch, low on dairy, protein, sugar. At least she has cut out the PUFAs for the most part.

A question about the progesterone - if more than a drop or two of Progest-E gives her hot flashes what does that mean? I assumed it meant an estrogen response and that she should take more, i.e. a bottle per week for a while, but there's just no way I can convince her to do that, so she's been working on this 1 bottle for like 8 months now.

The bag breathing she does when she gets panic feelings, I'm trying to encourage her to do it multiple times per day no matter what.

 

[ilovethesea]

This is just off the top of my head, and it's from some of the things that I've been researching here lately in regards to my own health.

Hell, at 70 years of age it could be anything. It could just be "old age" but I don't really buy into that line of reasoning. Eventually age gets all of us scragglers anyways, though.

But just off the top of my head with the symptoms you described, I would check to ensure that your mother's magnesium and zinc levels are adequate and not in the "mild chronic deficiency" range. Optimally I would check to ensure that your mother is getting all her nutritional needs met across the board.

Magnesium as I know it is the "relaxation" mineral in which more might be needed to stop the panic attacks. Zinc as I know it is the "immunity" mineral in which more might be needed to ensure a robust immune system ready to handle any acute/chronic infections that may crop up. :2cents

I hadn't considered magnesium - thanks! What is the fastest and best way to get in magnesium? A transdermal mag oil maybe? I understand you need to salt your food to get magnesium uptake... my mom has a crazy fear of salt too.

Do you think short term zinc supplementation would be appropriate in this instance? She will never eat oysters... I don't know how we're related, LOL

 

[marcar72]

I hadn't considered magnesium - thanks! What is the fastest and best way to get in magnesium? A transdermal mag oil maybe? I understand you need to salt your food to get magnesium uptake... my mom has a crazy fear of salt too.

Do you think short term zinc supplementation would be appropriate in this instance? She will never eat oysters... I don't know how we're related, LOL

Well I'd try to ascertain if she needs any supplementation first. What does she eat for food? Is her diet pretty concrete or is it random, and does it follow any paradigm. If she takes Milk of Magnesia (thinking about my Grandma) then she's probably getting plenty of magnesium. I posted a link to a thorough Magnesium supplementation study in the Supplements forum awhile back. All the results seemed to show that in the end there's not much difference in the bioavailability of the magnesium among the different forms of the supplement. I personally just mix about a level teaspoon of pure Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) into some OJ that I'm about to drink. :2cents

I'm currently taking a 50mg zinc chelate only because I'm fighting a chronic ear infection. I for years had been sleeping with ear plugs to drown any sound out, and I think that for years I've been having this chronic low level ear infection as a result. It finally flared up somewhat acutely and that's how I became aware of it. Chronic disease/infections can be a real b****, moreso that acute I think. Atleast with Acute you know pretty immediately that something is up and your body fights hard from the get go to eradicate it. :2cents

 

[Mittir]

Just reading the title i was thinking about sugar and fructose. You are already doing that.
I regularly recommend people around me with health issues to consume more sugar/honey/fruits and to do bag breathings and they feel much better doing that.
I think there is not any scientific study that connects fruit consumption with bad health.
It would be easier for you to convince her about eating a lot of fruits. I have seen how
fruits make huge difference in older people. Fructose does lot of things including
increased thyroid function. You can give her high fructose fruits like apple, pears,
mango, watermelon etc. Juice or cooked apple are helpful. I make fruit vegetable broth
for extra vitamins and minerals. I add diced cucumber, apple, potato, some greens and boil it
for half an hour. If she does not like bag breathing then yogic breathing exercise or Tai Chi
can give similar benefits. I have noticed meditation naturally slows down breathing, that
increases CO2 retention. The effective thyroid replacement is chicken neck soup or fish head soup. Older people do believe in miracle of soup. You can easily convince her to eat chicken soup.You can make soup using all the chicken bones, feet and the whole neck.
My guess is that 1 big neck gives at least half a grain of armour.
I think starting with small amount of soup daily is safe. Too much thyroid can
worsen condition by depleting nutrients and energy. Does she eat liver?
You can give her cheese if she does not milk.

 

[Blossom]

This question is for my mom, she's early 70s and had a few episodes of panic attacks and fainting over the past year. I mentioned in another thread that she had to have a pacemaker put in 2 weeks ago, as the last time she fainted she hit her head on concrete and her heart rate dropped to 29. (Normally it's in the 70s/80s.)

Now that she's back home after the surgery, she's still not feeling her normal self. She seems under extreme high stress, and is very anxious/depressed about having 'health problems' now. You have to walk on eggshells with her now to not get her upset, and she mentioned having a heart pain this morning for a minute during what she perceived as a stressful conversation. I told her to have a spoonful of sugar and it went away right away.

Also, a new symptom that she didn't have before is dizziness upon rising in the morning - particularly if she stands up too quickly. Also at the same time, numbness in the fingers (which goes away after a little while in the morning). Would this be hypotension? She did go back to the hospital to find out about the dizziness but they ran a bunch of heart tests and said everything was fine.

I believe she has high estrogen, low thyroid, high cortisol based on other symptoms - arthritis, belly fat, thinning hair, hot flashes.

She will take a tiny amount of Progest-E and some vitamin D drops but now the doctors have scared her off of doing anything else that is not "approved". They told her not to take aspirin or the Thorne vitamin K anymore - said it would cause dangerous blood clots. And that Tylenol or Advil were better!

I think she needs thyroid but she gets mad at me when I even mention it, as we wouldn't have a way of getting a prescription and it would involve fighting a lot of doctors, probably having to "go outside of the system" to get it into the country (which is what I have to do myself). She's not up for that fight and says she has to put her trust in the cardiologist.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what we can do?

I don't have much to add to all of the wonderful replies but did think of a couple things that may be a small help. The medical term for the dizziness/lightheadedness upon standing may be what is called orthostatic hypotension. You could search Peat's website using that term to see if he mentions anything specific in regards to that type of situation? The cardiologist may have your mom taking a blood-thinner medicine which would be a problem if combined with aspirin (just a thought). The trauma from surgery also takes a while to bounce back from and generally speaking it seems to take longer in older people. Part of her issues may resolve somewhat with time, good nutrition and love from family like you! I had a similar situation with my own mother recently so i can definitely empathize. My mom has decided to put her faith completely in her doctor (which is her right) and now all I can do is love her for whatever time I have left with her.

 

[visionofstrength]

A question about the progesterone - if more than a drop or two of Progest-E gives her hot flashes what does that mean?

I think it means that you may want to try some placebo drops of olive oil, which do not contain any progesterone. What you'll find I think is that the placebo also causes "hot flashes" if she has "more than a drop or two."

I say this because I support those with cachexia and it seems that, in the grip of cachexia, choices are directed in ways that the cachexic victim can no longer control consciously. It's as if they've lost the willingness to fend for themselves. Changing the environment in subtle ways can gradually change this consciousness, so that things that had been rejected before by cachexia are now accepted and even sought out by a healthier consciousness.

To be a little clearer, I'm trying to suggest that you can make changes for Mom that are so subtle Mom's cachexia cannot reject them. PM me if you have questions about how to do this?

 

[messtafarian]

Hi:

I think first off, your mother is frightened.

I am not saying that there is not an underlying cause for her symptoms, but when a person is ill and *frightened* the stress reactions can make everything much worse. In addition to health problems there is the constant stress of being afraid of the next horrible thing that's going to happen and that is no way to live.

So first to finding comfort. If she is dizzy in the morning, let her lie still in bed and maybe have some remedies on the night table: topical magnesium for relaxation, sugar or honey for adrenaline, salt for cortisol. She can also try bag breathing to exchange more Co2. Working out some self-help techniques are not only helpful but *calming* since she'll have an idea of what to do for herself instead of just worrying.

As to the rest, she may be having these symptoms but she is also *freaking out* -- I don't blame her and I remember feeling the same way many times when my health started to fail. Bag breathing is my first suggestion for any of the other symptoms including fainting.

I think overall though it might be nice to go through drills with her regarding: If this, then that. If dizzy, then salt and bag breathing. If faint, prone position and bag breathing. If panicked, topical magnesium and sunlight. Etc. Going through scenarios like this will make her feel more in control of her situation and that will probably solve some of the fear.

 

[tara]

Hi I lovethe sea,
A couple of thoughts, don't know whether they'd be relevant for you.

The first time I used progest-E I got 'morning sickness' (in the afternoon, not pregnant.). As with previous pregnancy nausea, eating helped. After that I learnt to not take it on an empty stomach, but always after food (sometimes just a few slurps of OJ, or a couple of dates in the middle of the night.) My speculation is that the cause was either just irritation from the viscous oil, or that a sudden improvement in metabolism ran my blood sugar down fast. I haven't heard this from anyone else, so it might be just me. But if your mother was taking it on an empty stomach, trying it with a little food might work better.

I have no medical expertise, so these are just ideas about how to make it easier for her to get some more general nutrition in. Sorry if I'm repeating things that have already been suggested. Depending on how much you want to do yourself, do you think you might be able to make and encourage her to try any of these?:

• liver pate? If you make a batch you can freeze portions so she can get an ounce or two out of the freezer every couple of days? If you have any hunches about what spices would make it more attractive to her, you can add them.

• oysters and/or other shellfish in a chowder, possibly blended if the lumps would put her of? This can get milk in, too, if she likes it.

• large bowls of OJ or other fruit juice jelly? Or make a batch of firmer jellies (fruit juice, sugar, gelatine) cut it into bite size squares, and freeze batches?

• milk pudding - gelatine, sugar, milk, and eg. cocoa or coffee or other flavour?

• cheese cake made from low fat cottage cheese - she probably doesn't need low fat, but it might make her more willing to try it if she is worried about cheese making her fat.

• Would she eat plain salted cottage cheese if you made her a batch?

• sauce made of (sweetened or not) condensed milk and flavour - eg cocoa, if she likes it?

• I've started making chicken neck stock in the last couple of months. Mittir's suggested small doses often. The last batch I froze into 100+ ice cubs, and heat 2-3 to eat morning and night. This may be less disruptive to a fragile system than a large serving occasionally. I usually eat soup for dinner (stock and veges), so I add the little chicken neck stock to this.

• if her digestion objects to too much coconut oil, rubbing it on the skin can feel good and some is likely to get into the system.

• Would she enjoy a foot soak with epsom salts?

If she is willing to do bag-breathing that's great. Does she obviously over-breathe habitually? Audible? Open mouth at night? Chin straps can help with the latter - night time being particularly hazardous for hyperventilation and traumatic health events. There is also an emergency procedure described on:
http://www.normalbreathing.com/learn-4A ... athing.php
for dealing with some kinds of heart pain, etc. I don't know that it's better than bag breathing - whatever she is willing to do is good.

Hope things go well for you both.

 

[Connections]

Sounds very much like she might have POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome). Not something to mess around with. Alternatively, mitral valve prolapse. The progesterone might be making it worse since it can cause tissue laxity.

 

[aguilaroja]

....Alternatively, mitral valve prolapse.....

It is known that in the late pregnancy, a time of high progesterone, there is more ligament laxity. But relaxin and other chemicals are higher at that same time. On a PubMed search, references do not indicate a strong association of progesterone and laxity.

WADR, I know of no association of natural progesterone with mitral valve prolapse. In the other direction, Dr. Peat has mentioned that mitral valve prolapse is more frequent with low thyroid function. The chordae tendineae, fibers attached to the heart valves, can become mucinous and lax in hypothyroidism. Loosening of the chordae tendinae gives floppiness of the mitral valve. Natural progesterone is supportive of thyroid function, and theoretically might act in direction of mitral valve improvement rather than worsening.

The heart rhythm disturbance diagnosis that prompted pacemaker placement has not been mentioned. I have limited understanding of the individual circumstances or if progesterone support is an important measure. History of estrogen excess symptoms and conditions would be a clue. Certainly, heart rhythm problems in some circumstances can provoke anxiety rather than resulting from anxiety. Pacemaker activation, even functioning appropriately, can also be unsettling emotionally.

Heart rhythm problems may increase the need for blood pressure adjustments to maintain adequate circulation. Your mother is hesitant about salt. If she has tendency toward dizziness and light-headedness, probably even a narrow-minded doctor would encourage adequate salt intake, to help keep the blood pressure and volume steady. Unless there are other factors, she could and should get this encouragement from her doctors. Salt will of course tend to support metabolism in other ways, and to assist magnesium retention.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/water.shtml

"The danger of salt restriction in pregnancy has hardly been recognized by most physicians, and its danger in analogous physiological situations is much farther from their consideration.
One of the things that happen when there isn't enough sodium in the diet is that more aldosterone is synthesized. Aldosterone causes less sodium to be lost in the urine and sweat, but it achieves that at the expense of the increased loss of potassium, magnesium, and probably calcium. The loss of potassium leads to vasoconstriction, which contributes to heart and kidney failure and high blood pressure. The loss of magnesium contributes to vasoconstriction, inflammation, and bone loss. Magnesium deficiency is extremely common, but a little extra salt in the diet makes it easier to retain the magnesium in our foods."

 

[Phosphor]

Did they give her a fluoroquinolone antibiotic while in the hospital? (FQAD)
Dizzy upon standing up sounds like POTS. Mast cell reaction, starts up with various kinds of stress including poisons from either environmental sources or ingested.