More glutamate.. not less. We lack excitatory action.

[tommyg130]

I think many people are stuck in this chronic parasympathetic/slow metabolism mode. However it’s not a relaxed parasympathetic mode. One lacks the flexibility to move in and out of different nervous system patterns.

So really it’s manifesting in a feeling of sympathetic dominance.. Brain wise. Overall you’ll be slowed down, hard to excite and feel joy, brain fog, Maleise. Too much inhibitory action. Paralyzed as far as action to better your life goes. But you’ll be fast in the sense of racing thoughs and you don’t feel grounded (sympathetic in this sense) Because you have the understanding things aren’t great and that you’re not optimized and that frustrates you. You’re not living life on your terms etc. And you’re fighting how you actually feel.

So it leads to a chronic parasympathetic state , combined with sympathetic dominance. But, you’re only getting the negatives of each.

Point im trying to make is that the blind recommendations of gaba inducing supps is hardly the answer. For myself, and many others I talk too gaba supps tend to just numb you, and maybe calm the internal chatter, but it’s by no means a fix. It just makes me feel even slower and more DISSOCIATED. Plenty of people
Have EXCESS gaba, and a hard time converting gaba to glutamate.

They lack that zest for life, ambitious, go getter mindset. No excitatory action. They confuse that internal chatter and think they have too much glutamate/excitatory action. When it’s quite the opposite. They have none. And they know it feels off so the anxiety creeps in because they know they know they have more potential to go after things, but they are sooo slowed down by a lack of excitatory action?

Do some people have excess glutamate? Sure. But I don’t think its as much of a problem as people think. Many think we all need more gaba and I think it may be other way around. Balancing these 2 is tough and I Think they both convert into each other and some compounds modulate both gaba and glut. Like magnesium. What are some ways to increse glutamate in the brain and NOT Gaba. L-glutamine?

 

[Peater]

I think many people are stuck in this chronic parasympathetic/slow metabolism mode. However it’s not a relaxed parasympathetic mode. One lacks the flexibility to move in and out of different nervous system patterns.

So really it’s manifesting in a feeling of sympathetic dominance.. Brain wise. Overall you’ll be slowed down, hard to excite and feel joy, brain fog, Maleise. Too much inhibitory action. Paralyzed as far as action to better your life goes. But you’ll be fast in the sense of racing thoughs and you don’t feel grounded (sympathetic in this sense) Because you have the understanding things aren’t great and that you’re not optimized and that frustrates you. You’re not living life on your terms etc. And you’re fighting how you actually feel.

So it leads to a chronic parasympathetic state , combined with sympathetic dominance. But, you’re only getting the negatives of each.

Point im trying to make is that the blind recommendations of gaba inducing supps is hardly the answer. For myself, and many others I talk too gaba supps tend to just numb you, and maybe calm the internal chatter, but it’s by no means a fix. It just makes me feel even slower and more DISSOCIATED. Plenty of people
Have EXCESS gaba, and a hard time converting gaba to glutamate.

They lack that zest for life, ambitious, go getter mindset. No excitatory action. They confuse that internal chatter and think they have too much glutamate/excitatory action. When it’s quite the opposite. They have none. And they know it feels off so the anxiety creeps in because they know they know they have more potential to go after things, but they are sooo slowed down by a lack of excitatory action?

Do some people have excess glutamate? Sure. But I don’t think its as much of a problem as people think. Many think we all need more gaba and I think it may be other way around. Balancing these 2 is tough and I Think they both convert into each other and some compounds modulate both gaba and glut. Like magnesium. What are some ways to increse glutamate in the brain and NOT Gaba. L-glutamine?

I have very, very little knowledge of these areas - yet you just described a lot of my behaviours and mental attitudes/activity. Will follow with interest. Thanks.

 

[nikotrope]

What you wrote is really interesting. It fits pretty well with my current problems.

So a week ago I decided to try CBD oil because I get too anxious sometimes and this feeling of being paralized even when I'm not anxious got a lot better. Now I've just googled a bit to see if CBD had an impact on glutamate on the brain and it seems so. Maybe a good compound?

 

[yerrag]

It's a good subject to talk about.

I don't know much about our nervous system, and the autonomic nervous system and what is parasympathetic and what is sympathetic is just as mysterious to me as the trinity. It to me is like trying to fill the entire ocean into a hole in the beach I created.

I think it is very much about nature and balance. Very much about Yin and Yang. And a.body in accord with nature would be in that balance where the subject of gluttamate and GABA balancing is not discussed at all.

But given that our society is a heavily drugged one, the subject comes up and Ray Peat chooses to talk on the subject on the side of glutamate being bad and GABA being good, being that the problem often lies in glutamate excess and not as much in GABA excess.

This is the same approach Ray has about estrogen as well, and occasionally the subject would come up where the OP would object to Ray's villification of estrogen.

Where there's a fire, that's where the firemen go.

We don't usually get excess GABA from being unaware of the excitotoxins present in food additives from buying processed foods, do we?

We also get gaslighted by the medical experts who tell us estrogen is good and we need more of it as we age.

I guess that is Ray's way of tipping the scales by not being "fair and balanced."

If Ray were fair and balanced, he will have little effect in making us go from seed and fish oil fully sick and obese, to PUFA-free and healthier.

At the very least, I know not to indulge in foods that rely too much on MSG for taste heaven, but for foods done and seasoned well with no cheating shortcuts. This helps me avoid getting sick.

Knowing the neurotoxic effects of excess glutamate made me save my mother when the neurologist, in all her titular glory, wanted to send her to tthe hospice to die as a vegetable. It was by making her a food blend with magnesium and sugar that made her recover and walk out of the hospital.

But I agree that we need to look at things from a standpoint that substances, especially those that are naturally present in the body, serve a useful role and are never all bad.

I just give Ray allowance for not letting us see things that way at times. He was on a mission to uncover more truths to share with us, and doing it all alone he chose to err on the side of writing less on things we should be able to figure out ourselves, and more on those we can't.

n.b.

I don't really know if we need to be taking more glutamate to make ourselves more excited. The term excitotoxic describes how more too much glutamate makes our neurons excited that it starts to use up more energy while the neuron is unable to produce more energy from a suboptimal metabolism, which could be from lacking substrates or from lack of metabolites needed for optimal sugar metabolism. So, the answer doesn't lie in getting more glutsmate as much as improving metabolic health.

But glutamate is still useful as it is converted to ammonia in the kidneys to be converted to ammonium which is needed to pair up with acidic anions such such as lactate, chloride, sulfate etc, in order to excrete acidics from our body thru urine.

 

[Nomane Euger]

@tommyg130

hello, from my experience to tend to the highest degree of intense and pleasant excitement in the head/brain, not a subtle feeling, a feeling as intense as a good erection, even if less hot, it is by eating enough perfectly ripe fruit (the ones that caused me this effect are oranges and cherimoya more rarely)

and reducing all other foods including meat/fat/dairy/eggs, in this state your brain is on fire, mental chatter is on firing at high speed while having 0 anxiety,0 negatives emotions ,high potential for relaxation,high potential for brain and muscle excitement,very little if any sexual thought,you dont feel the weight of your body,and thinking about an action cause you a pleasant feeling of energy firing in your muscles therefore you moove spontaneously and movements feel fantastic

excited nimble monkey swinging from branch to branch would be a good archetype representing this state.

Fat/meat/eggs/dairies/honey will not increase brain exitation as good as some ripe fruits in the proper enjoyable ""balance""manner that i described above,and many of them will likely reduce it,so i suggest you modify the proportion of these foods up until you reach the degree of brain exitation that you enjoy the most.

as an anecdote,i do not necessary suggest it,i had a blood donation right before this period of very high brain pleasant exitation started,and i have seen many peoples mentionning that after they gave blood,they felt more alive,more joyfull....etc,the rare times i ate meat during this period of high brain exitation,i instantly felt the numbing of the exitation in my head,and the loss of intense pleasure from things such as listening to music.

now if you are wondering about sexual exitation,specifically burning desire in the penis and some in the brain,like you see boobs and it feel like they are shining/twitching,having a strong digestion and eating enough muscle meat,specifically aged a few weeks,2 to 3 at least,is very powerfull

lowering EMF exposure,lowering masturbation,exposing yourself to sunlight or artificial light in the winter,not to high competition/stress can all improve your exitation potential

wish you fun

 

[Dainis Spainis]

I would say that we have too much uncontrolled glutamate.

So in normal condition glutamate is where the action is in neurons - in synapses. Glutamate is used by dopamine/acetylcholine and other neuromodulators for next neuron excitation. Any excess glutamate is quickly collected.
What happens with "modern diet and lifestyle" is that this normal glutamate release is dampened and instead glutamate is leaking all around neirons (from astrocites, through damaged blood-brain barrier etc.) and exciting neurons not in synapses but all around neurons - making whole brain a little bit excited, but not enough to make proper action. This does require energy, this does not make you smart or energetic - it makes you slow, dumb, lazy, depressed and makes your brain inflamed.
Also virus infections makes your cells to make a lot of glutamate.

I would say our GABA has been overused and cant keep up with our chronic artificial stress (loans, exams, relationships, work, problems in the yard, the city, the country, the world, space, etc.)

 

[S-VV]

Excitation =! Stimulation

"Inhibitory" systems increase ATP. "Excitatory" deplete. See the works of Pavlov, Asratyan and Palladin. Available on archive.org

"Sympathetic" and "parasympathetic": anatomic concepts with complex biological actions.

The conclusions you arrive to are the result of having too much "molecular biology" in your brain. Dangerous!

Suggest taking some taurine before it produces lasting damage.

 

[Sapien]

Point im trying to make is that blind reccomendations of gaba inducing sups is hardly the answer

Tommy, I came to a similar conclusion when I discovered that blocking glutamate action inhibits rem sleep. Below im posting a post from my thread “thc inhibits rem sleep, anyone know by what mechanism, how to offset?”







Post: [
This study shows that acetylcholine is essential for REM. It supports what redsun said about glutamate:

Cannabinoids have strong anti-glutamate effects. You need glutamate to activate REM sleep by activating cholinergic neurons. You block that, you won't get normal REM.

This all makes me wonder if the "gaba good ,glutamate bad" ideology on the form is a bit reductionistic. Many are taking sups that increase gaba/ reduce glutamate, i wonder if things like diamant can be harmful in the sense that they inhibit rem sleep.
Even though he is selling diamant, Haidut himself stated that "Some levels of glutamate are certainly physiological."

How would one proceed knowing that glutamate can cause depressive symptoms yet is essential for rem sleep?}

I then followed up by looking into the diamant thread to confirm my suspicions

{
A quick search for "diamant rem" on the form confirmed my suspicion. One member (constatine) in the diamant thread stated:"Sleep disturbances (decreased REM stages 1 and 3) can (and most likely will, even if you don't notice it) be caused my memantine (and hence Diamant). Perhaps taking supplements that boost REM sleep would help."
and also "the mechanism of action is probably via NMDA which is also the likely mechanism of action of Diamant's sleep disruption (being an antagonist). I don't know what results one would get when taking both supplements at the same time. You could also try magnesium. Magnesium shows promise for bettering sleep but it is a natural NMDA antagonist and will likely potentiate many of Diamant's effects (which is probably a good thing). But if Diamant is interfering with sleep via NMDA antagonism further antagonism can obviously make it worse (assuming magnesium is a strict antagonist and not a modulator or what not). Considering these two substances work with NMDA I think they have the potential to treat the root cause of the sleep disturbance. Though there is the possibility they will nullify or amplify any of Diamant's many effects."

This is the case with other NMDA antagonists such as Ketamine, " Potentiation of ketamine effects on the spiking activity in the lateral geniculate nucleus by rapid eye movement (REM) sleep deprivation "

If any knowledge can be taken from this thread, it is that complete antagonization of NMDA might not be ideal, due to its REM inhibition.

Although,magnesium, which can serve as an NMDA antagonist itself, doesn't seem to inhibit rem, in your experience and mine... hmm.

When I take mag+B6, I have almost too many awesome dreams.

(End post)

 

[Sapien]

Point im trying to make is that the blind recommendations of gaba inducing supps is hardly the answer.

This all makes me wonder if the "gaba good ,glutamate bad" ideology on the form is a bit reductionistic. Many are taking sups that increase gaba/ reduce glutamate, i wonder if things like diamant can be harmful in the sense that they inhibit rem sleep

Said pretty much the exact same thing.

 

[Sapien]

Although I am not sure that I agree with your assertion that feelings of anhedonia/ low motivation is caused by high gaba/ low glutamate. I would attribute that to low dopamine state.

I would agree with S-VV in that I don’t think you can come to these conclusions without a comprehensive understanding of the biochemistry.
Like he said, I don’t think “excitatory” is synonymous with “stimulating”

But I do agree with you that completely blocking glutamate can be problematic (at least for rem sleep, not sure if that’s all it’s needed for)

 

[Limon9]

What are some ways to increse glutamate in the brain and NOT Gaba. L-glutamine?

Estradiol pills. Feel free.

 

[Frankdee20]

I think many people are stuck in this chronic parasympathetic/slow metabolism mode. However it’s not a relaxed parasympathetic mode. One lacks the flexibility to move in and out of different nervous system patterns.

So really it’s manifesting in a feeling of sympathetic dominance.. Brain wise. Overall you’ll be slowed down, hard to excite and feel joy, brain fog, Maleise. Too much inhibitory action. Paralyzed as far as action to better your life goes. But you’ll be fast in the sense of racing thoughs and you don’t feel grounded (sympathetic in this sense) Because you have the understanding things aren’t great and that you’re not optimized and that frustrates you. You’re not living life on your terms etc. And you’re fighting how you actually feel.

So it leads to a chronic parasympathetic state , combined with sympathetic dominance. But, you’re only getting the negatives of each.

Point im trying to make is that the blind recommendations of gaba inducing supps is hardly the answer. For myself, and many others I talk too gaba supps tend to just numb you, and maybe calm the internal chatter, but it’s by no means a fix. It just makes me feel even slower and more DISSOCIATED. Plenty of people
Have EXCESS gaba, and a hard time converting gaba to glutamate.

They lack that zest for life, ambitious, go getter mindset. No excitatory action. They confuse that internal chatter and think they have too much glutamate/excitatory action. When it’s quite the opposite. They have none. And they know it feels off so the anxiety creeps in because they know they know they have more potential to go after things, but they are sooo slowed down by a lack of excitatory action?

Do some people have excess glutamate? Sure. But I don’t think its as much of a problem as people think. Many think we all need more gaba and I think it may be other way around. Balancing these 2 is tough and I Think they both convert into each other and some compounds modulate both gaba and glut. Like magnesium. What are some ways to increse glutamate in the brain and NOT Gaba. L-glutamine