Milk, milk and some more milk

[teds]

good evening all,

recently listened to Dr Peat being interviewed ‎Get Fit with Jodelle: Dr. Ray Peat - Liver Health, Milk, Alcohol, & Listener Q&A on Apple Podcasts
Jodelle asked him about 'all milk cleanse' and his general thoughts- they appeared to be resoundingly positive.

I then listened to a more recent podcast which went through this process in detail. The person being interview spoke about herbs that were prescribed in this protocol etc ‎Get Fit with Jodelle: The Milk Cleanse for Lyme, Mold, & Parasites s w/ Jody Levy on Apple Podcasts

So, my question is, has anyone got experience going 'all milk' for a short period (i.e. without the herbs etc)? I feel like the general protocol described in the second interview with the herbs was probably more 'anti-sugar' and 'milk is inflammatory without the herbs that I'm prescribing'.. which i don't feel it is.

I saw that someone had looked at milk and sugar but there wasn't anything really specific that they described.


on a slightly different note - if anyone has tried this, what's the hunger and stress levels like with regards to a very high liquid diet. When i drink a lot of milk through the day I never really feel that deep satisfaction and generally bingeing is induced. Not sure if it's the lack of starch or the liquid or just the zero fibre factor.

many thanks

 

[ecstatichamster]

I haven’t gone all milk, only 2 liters per day, but I have noticed that adding some salt really helps cut down on cravings.

 

[DrJ]

If you allow for adding sugar and glycine to the milk then I have done this for 3 days. I get very hot and actually crazy hungry. Probably hypermetabolic a bit. I consume at least 4 liters per day of the half fat milk. I also drink coffee during this time. I highly recommend trying adding sugar to milk if you feel just milk isn't cutting it.

 

[Ben.]

I did all milk for 8 days because the protocoll intriguied me but all it did for me was craving solid foods especially at the last 2-3 days.

Used the herbs too but can't say i have noticed much from this "cleanse". Other "protocoll" led to far better reactions/experiences.

 

[Samya]

Thanks for the links. I've read a lot about mono milk diets and it used to be quite popular. The proponents usually admitted it wasn't a panacea but did appear to treat quite a few diseases quite well.

I haven't gone for extended periods as I still enjoy a cooked meal or piece of fruit every now and then, although I could live off milk for the rest of my life and be very happy doing so. The only downside is urinating quite a bit and the quality of milk in some places isn't great. There's places I used to visit where only UHT milk is available which I'm not sure would be good longterm as a sole food or even staple, then other places where you can buy raw milk on the street but the treatment and diet of the cows isn't ideal.

What % fat milk do you drink? I'm surprised you found it leads to binging as when I'm drinking milk I don't have any cravings and quite a few people report the same.

 

[mrchibbs]

Thanks for the links. I've read a lot about mono milk diets and it used to be quite popular. The proponents usually admitted it wasn't a panacea but did appear to treat quite a few diseases quite well.

I haven't gone for extended periods as I still enjoy a cooked meal or piece of fruit every now and then, although I could live off milk for the rest of my life and be very happy doing so. The only downside is urinating quite a bit and the quality of milk in some countries isn't great. There's places I visit where only UHT milk is available which I'm not sure would be good longterm as a sole food or even staple, then other places where you can buy raw milk on the street but the treatment and diet of the cows isn't ideal.

What % fat milk do you drink? I'm surprised you found it leads to binging as when I'm drinking milk I don't have any cravings and quite a few people report the same.

I would suspect drinking full-fat ''whole milk'' if on a ''milk cleanse'' would be the best way to ensure satiety.

 

[Samya]

I would suspect drinking full-fat ''whole milk'' if on a ''milk cleanse'' would be the best way to ensure satiety.

Most of the the milk cure proponents suggested whole Holstein milk direct from the cow as it had less fat than Jersey/Guernsey breeds, which they said could negatively affect digestion, although I'm aware of one which actually prefered the higher fat content of the Channel Island cattle. They sometimes used skim milk as they said the sugar and protein was what built up healthy tissue but I agree that long term this probably wouldn't be satisfying.

 

[Dr. B]

Most of the the milk cure proponents suggested whole Holstein milk direct from the cow as it had less fat than Jersey/Guernsey breeds, which they said could negatively affect digestion, although I'm aware of one which actually prefered the higher fat content of the Channel Island cattle. They sometimes used skim milk as they said the sugar and protein was what built up healthy tissue but I agree that long term this probably wouldn't be satisfying.

mate holstein is like the main A1 cow it probably has some recurring disease going on... jersey guernsey are often A2
A1 supposedly only been around 1000 years probably developed due to holsteins being fed cow meat or something

 

[Samya]

I've heard some people have issues with A1 but not A2 milk, different 'milk diet' gurus had different opinions but I've most often seen Holstein recommended. I suppose that due its larger production of milk it was more commonly milked and recommended back when the milk diet was popular. The alternative they gave was reducing the fat content of the Jersey/Guernsey milk if it was an issue.

A1 is related to the breed of cattle and a particular protein in the milk. You may be thinking of 'mad cow disease' which apparently started from feeding cows beef. I haven't researched mad cow disease so not sure if that is just a rumour but it's the only place I've heard such a thing.

 

[Dr. B]

I've heard some people have issues with A1 but not A2 milk, different 'milk diet' gurus had different opinions but I've most often seen Holstein recommended. I suppose that due its larger production of milk it was more commonly milked and recommended back when the milk diet was popular. The alternative they gave was reducing the fat content of the Jersey/Guernsey milk if it was an issue.

A1 is related to the breed of cattle and a particular protein in the milk. You may be thinking of 'mad cow disease' which apparently started from feeding cows beef. I haven't researched mad cow disease so not sure if that is just a rumour but it's the only place I've heard such a thing.

A1 proteins only been around for like 1500 years, it cant be coincidence that only some cows have them yet every other mammalian milk is A2 like sheep, goat, horse, human etc, even holstein can have A2 but its probably less than 1% of them. the A1 protein is supposedly tougher to digest more inflammatory and has opioid effects...
some say the white milk isnt nutritious and all milk should be that golden color.
100% grass fed is another important factor...

 

[Jennifer]

So, my question is, has anyone got experience going 'all milk' for a short period (i.e. without the herbs etc)? I feel like the general protocol described in the second interview with the herbs was probably more 'anti-sugar' and 'milk is inflammatory without the herbs that I'm prescribing'.. which i don't feel it is.

I’ve done the mono milk diet for months at a time both with and without herbs. I found the diet to be terrible when I had SIBO and gastritis—I experienced hives, rashes, anaphylaxis, bean sized tonsil stones, burning in my intestines, constipation, brain fog and depression—and the most healing diet I’ve ever done when I no longer had SIBO or gastritis. I prefer the diet without herbs.

 

[Dr. B]

I’ve done the mono milk diet for months at a time both with and without herbs. I found the diet to be terrible when I had SIBO and gastritis—I experienced hives, rashes, anaphylaxis, bean sized tonsil stones, burning in my intestines, constipation, brain fog and depression—and the most healing diet I’ve ever done when I no longer had SIBO or gastritis. I prefer the diet without herbs.

whats the issue with it with gastritis and sibo, shouldnt the fat in the milk help clear up bacteria or were you doing skim milk?

 

[Jennifer]

whats the issue with it with gastritis and sibo, shouldnt the fat in the milk help clear up bacteria or were you doing skim milk?

It was feeding the overgrowth likely because my gut lining was so damaged from the gastritis that I wasn’t producing the proper enzymes to digest milk. The only thing I was digesting back then was raw fruit so…

 

[Dr. B]

It was feeding the overgrowth likely because my gut lining was so damaged from the gastritis that I wasn’t producing the proper enzymes to digest milk. The only thing I was digesting back then was raw fruit so…

ive heard glutamine helps repair gut lining/leaky gut some recommend whey powder for that.
i heard saturated fatty acids have anti bacterial effects.

i wonder how pasteurization effects it, its true that raw milk has some enzymes and is raw but at the same time i could see arguments for how cooking milk and pasteurizing it could also make it more digestible? the cooking process would kind of predigest some of the proteins and milk wouldn't it?
id imagine people with milk intolerance/milk allergies may do better with ultra pasteurized milk too? the allergenic compounds should be broken down more?

 

[TradClare]

I did an all raw milk diet for a week with my mom several years ago. I found myself pretty hungry and I love milk but at the time living in the city our source was rather expensive so I was limiting myself to 2-3 quarts. She only needed the 2 quarts and went for 2 weeks for her high blood pressure. It worked amazingly well for her and when she went back to her normal diet her blood pressure very slowly crept up over the next 6 months. So, it would be good for her to do it seasonally. I feel like the whole "cleanse" package with herbs is a sales gimmick, because the milk cure has been around without herbs for awhile. That said, if I were to do it again I would probably use some kind of herbal teas to keep things moving. Is there any benefit to doing it with grocery store cow's milk?

 

[Dr. B]

I did an all raw milk diet for a week with my mom several years ago. I found myself pretty hungry and I love milk but at the time living in the city our source was rather expensive so I was limiting myself to 2-3 quarts. She only needed the 2 quarts and went for 2 weeks for her high blood pressure. It worked amazingly well for her and when she went back to her normal diet her blood pressure very slowly crept up over the next 6 months. So, it would be good for her to do it seasonally. I feel like the whole "cleanse" package with herbs is a sales gimmick, because the milk cure has been around without herbs for awhile. That said, if I were to do it again I would probably use some kind of herbal teas to keep things moving. Is there any benefit to doing it with grocery store cow's milk?

i think you need some additional nutrients... i think ideally you could do an all milk diet but combine it with some dried fruits and honey
the Maasai diet is mostly raw milk, raw honey, with some blood and raw beef organs...
Peats said people on a pure milk diet would eventually need to supplement iron. now im curious, this was in a Danny Roddy podcast and he discussed an all milk diet and another type of diet. i cant remember what the other diet he was talking about was, i dont know if it was gelatin or what exactly. but he mentioned the all milk diet is good for most of the essential nutrients but theyd need to supplement iron eventually.
so that means something like the Maasai diet is more ideal. milk with raw honey, raw blood or beef organs for the iron and other nutrients, and some fruits. you can probably do grocery store milk with store bought raw honey and dried fruits. i think dates, figs, mangos and pineapple are good dried fruits. the dried tangerines and strawberries ive seen have preservatives and sulfites added. dates, figs, mango and pineapple and bananna seem to all be available in sun dried form without any additives or preservatives.

 

[Jennifer]

ive heard glutamine helps repair gut lining/leaky gut some recommend whey powder for that.
i heard saturated fatty acids have anti bacterial effects.

i wonder how pasteurization effects it, its true that raw milk has some enzymes and is raw but at the same time i could see arguments for how cooking milk and pasteurizing it could also make it more digestible? the cooking process would kind of predigest some of the proteins and milk wouldn't it?
id imagine people with milk intolerance/milk allergies may do better with ultra pasteurized milk too? the allergenic compounds should be broken down more?

I took this product which contains glutamine and it didn’t help:

Glutagenics®

Glutagenics features three key ingredients designed to support the integrity and healthy function of the gastrointestinal lining, which is essential for proper digestion, immune function, and overall health.

www.metagenics.com

Goldenseal and George’s Always Active aloe vera juice helped, but what I really needed was to clear the overgrowth and start supplementing with thyroid, since thyroid disease is what caused the SIBO in the first place.

I also consumed dairy fat, coconut oil and chocolate, but they didn’t help, either. In fact, dairy fat made it worse and Ray told me in an email that some people have a hard time digesting dairy fat so he recommends low-fat dairy.

If someone has a true milk allergy, I’m not sure cooking would make milk more tolerable but in terms of digestibility, maybe curdling, say with animal rennet, and culturing, would be a way of pre-digesting milk? I tolerated ultra-pasteurized better than raw when I had SIBO, I suspect because the bacteria in raw milk added to the overgrowth. Ray referred to ultra-pasteurized milk as sterile in an interview and I’d have to agree, given my experience.

 

[teds]

Hi everyone- thanks for your comments!
The ‘protocol’ that was referred to only mentions 8 days so I’m not super concerned about deficiencies per se. I agree that long term this would be an issue though.
I’m fortunate to have access to milk without any (known) additives but it is pasteurized etc. I tend to drink a 1.4%-3% milk and occasionally a full fat just bc it’s delicious. But hunger does tend to be prominent on those days (and that’s not only milk that I’m drinking of course- that’s w fruit and maple syrup, eggs etc)- so I’d be nervous to do a whole 8 days on just milk.
I’m not convinced of the herbs. It’s felt a bit over the top in the discussion and I didn’t feel like I trusted the person being interviewed. Nothing felt authentic.. I think especially when she said no sugar and lots of vegetables after the cleanse.. that makes no sense to me.. but anyway we’ve all done stuff like that at one point I guess.
My gut stuff is pretty new and I’ve ordered some camphosal so I shall try that first I think! ? ?

 

[teds]

I did an all raw milk diet for a week with my mom several years ago. I found myself pretty hungry and I love milk but at the time living in the city our source was rather expensive so I was limiting myself to 2-3 quarts. She only needed the 2 quarts and went for 2 weeks for her high blood pressure. It worked amazingly well for her and when she went back to her normal diet her blood pressure very slowly crept up over the next 6 months. So, it would be good for her to do it seasonally. I feel like the whole "cleanse" package with herbs is a sales gimmick, because the milk cure has been around without herbs for awhile. That said, if I were to do it again I would probably use some kind of herbal teas to keep things moving. Is there any benefit to doing it with grocery store cow's milk?

Yes to this!
2 quarts! Omg that’s 1.8L… less than half my normal cal intake. I’d go bonkers ?

 

[teds]

I haven’t gone all milk, only 2 liters per day, but I have noticed that adding some salt really helps cut down on cravings.

Thanks I’ll definitely try that when having more liquid days to see if it helps.