Man Makes Himself Insulin Resistant/type Two Diabetic By Drinking Olive Oil

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Fairly, there's probably something intermediate going on. The idea that drinking oil makes that very oil get into your blood in a form that preferentially sticks to cells is whacky. They could be bumping around TGs or big lipoproteins, or those lipoproteins and other TGs could be recruiting monocytic intercellular adhesion molecules. But to simply that the fat it coating the cells themselves and making them sticky is like saying when you eat meat the meat protein goes into your blood and adds to your muscle cells.

Well in a Peatish sense, it's a good metaphor... the issue is when you start looking at single steps too much, and start thinking that the physical properties of that substance don't matter anymore. Whether the fat is overloading the albumin, or overloading the red blood cells, is not really relevant to us in this situation.
 

Kyle M

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Well in a Peatish sense, it's a good metaphor... the issue is when you start looking at single steps too much, and start thinking that the physical properties of that substance don't matter anymore. Whether the fat is overloading the albumin, or overloading the red blood cells, is not really relevant to us in this situation.
The reason I disagree is that if the cellular adhesion is due to the oil bringing in endotoxin, for example, and the middle aged man's immune system not being equal to the task of clearing it well because he's some kind of main stream vegetarian dieter, it's not a fair experiment. Would that happen if some healthy 24 year old drank a bit of olive oil? What if he took an antibiotic for a week first, would the results be the same?

You can demonize sugar the same way you know, with a non-experiment like that, showing is spikes glucose and TGs or acutely causes this or that negative outcome.
 
Joined
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The reason I disagree is that if the cellular adhesion is due to the oil bringing in endotoxin, for example, and the middle aged man's immune system not being equal to the task of clearing it well because he's some kind of main stream vegetarian dieter, it's not a fair experiment. Would that happen if some healthy 24 year old drank a bit of olive oil? What if he took an antibiotic for a week first, would the results be the same?

You can demonize sugar the same way you know, with a non-experiment like that, showing is spikes glucose and TGs or acutely causes this or that negative outcome.

It's not about demonizing anything, it's about looking at the living organism under a microscope, which is a lost art, and using a bit of lab numbers to demonstrate that it can't be dismissed as just "quirky gimmicky thing that cells do". Not only that, but in the process he lowkey showed that lab ranges for things like diabetes are a little bit pointless, and also that the state of disease starts from brief and non dangerous episodes, and then gradually becomes the normal way of function for the system.
 
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The reason I disagree is that if the cellular adhesion is due to the oil bringing in endotoxin, for example, and the middle aged man's immune system not being equal to the task of clearing it well because he's some kind of main stream vegetarian dieter, it's not a fair experiment. Would that happen if some healthy 24 year old drank a bit of olive oil? What if he took an antibiotic for a week first, would the results be the same?

You can demonize sugar the same way you know, with a non-experiment like that, showing is spikes glucose and TGs or acutely causes this or that negative outcome.

i doubt endotoxins are involved.

I think it's the oil.

This experiment doesn't duplicate real life. As Ray has said, it's better to have all the macros. This idea of just drinking oil and extrapolating the results is the reductionist approach that may lead to some research direction and some ideas, but shouldn't be something you hang your hat on too much.

If I eat cheese, it has a lot of fat, but also protein and sodium and potassium and lots of other things. Will it have the same effect?

I don't eat a pound of cheese at once. I eat maybe 100g of cheese. That has maybe 30 or 35g of fat. A far cry from drinking many tablespoons of pure olive oil...

I would think that a pound of cheese, may have a different effect...or it may not...

maybe plain oil causes the agglutination while oil inside of real food doesn't as much.
 

haidut

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He drank a 120ml of oil in one sitting. That would obviously cause temporary insulin resistance through Randle cycle. Who would eat that much fat in one meal though!??! Even as total daily fat intake, it is substantially higher than the 80g Americans consume on average. I would also like to see him repeat that test with 120g of corn/canola/cottonseed/rapeseed/etc, 120g coconut, 120g of butter, and 120g MCT of fully saturated oil. The results for coconut oil will probably be a bit better but still this is an insane amount of fat to consume in one sitting. The cirrhosis studies used 50g coconut oil daily, so why would somebody drench themselves in so much fat is beyond me. The recipes he is referring to probably talk about using 120ml oil to cook a whole meal, which could then provide 3-4 servings of food.
 

haidut

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It's a proof of concept...

Right, proof of the Randle cycle at work. But it is a crazy amount of fat to ingest and not sure what his overall message is for the everyday person. It's like ingesting 200g protein with no sugar and then measuring BUN and creatinine and saying high protein will give you kidney disease.
 

WestCoaster

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I'm not sure who would ever think of drinking taking olive oil straight, let alone a half cup of it. I highly doubt coconut oil would do the same thing, just as butter or lard wouldn't. It also depends on people's digestive system's health.

To put this into context, a half cup of oil which is what this dude drank has 108g of fat according to Cronometer. His starting glucose was 96, and finishes at 196. Now a normal healthy person's baseline glucose we're given a range of 70-99 but most sources i've read agree that mid to upper 80's is the healthy range. If your in the upper 90's you're already showing signs of insulin resistance, so a number of 96 you're already starting from a defeated state. A normal healthy person's glucose shouldn't climb past 120-140 after any food consumption. Realistically the peak should be around 120 maybe 30-60 min after consumption, then drop back down to baseline 1.5 to 2 hours later. If his glucose was that high 2 hours later, the dude is already pushing diabetes to begin with, and his baseline numbers seem to reflect that so he is not the ideal person to do this test on.

To put this into context yesterday my baseline fasting blood glucose was 80 (4.4) when I awoke. I had about 10 oz of pork belly for breakfast and an avocado. This turned out to be 30 grams of protein and about 180 grams of fat. 30 min after eating, it was 84 (4.6). 1 hour after eating it was 82 (4.5), then 90 min after eating, back down to 80(4.4). People I'm sure will look at the numbers and think hypoglycemia, but I felt perfectly fine and energetic. Cortisol? Nope, cortisol drags blood sugar up so so it wasn't a factor. I even reproduced the same fat bomb later that night with 4 pieces of bacon and 5 heaping tablespoons of home made caesear dressing made from mayo and bacon fat, on a giant spinach salad with cheese sprinkled on top. Glucose didn't climb higher than 87, and still felt perfectly fine. This second meal had about 110 grams of fat. I consumed more grams of fat in both instances than this guy did, yet my glucose level didn't climb higher than 4 and 7 points respectively, let alone 100 like his did and remained elevated long past the point it should have.

Now does that mean anyone here who tries to replicate that and have the same results? Maybe, maybe not; are you insulin resistant or pushing insulin resistance to begin with? Now if I'm starting from 80 and drink a half cup of olive oil, do you think my glucose will climb to 180? Highly unlikely, but then again, I'm not about to drink a half cup of olive oil because that would be disgusting lol.
 
Joined
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I'm not sure who would ever think of drinking taking olive oil straight, let alone a half cup of it. I highly doubt coconut oil would do the same thing, just as butter or lard wouldn't. It also depends on people's digestive system's health.

To put this into context, a half cup of oil which is what this dude drank has 108g of fat according to Cronometer. His starting glucose was 96, and finishes at 196. Now a normal healthy person's baseline glucose we're given a range of 70-99 but most sources i've read agree that mid to upper 80's is the healthy range. If your in the upper 90's you're already showing signs of insulin resistance, so a number of 96 you're already starting from a defeated state. A normal healthy person's glucose shouldn't climb past 120-140 after any food consumption. Realistically the peak should be around 120 maybe 30-60 min after consumption, then drop back down to baseline 1.5 to 2 hours later. If his glucose was that high 2 hours later, the dude is already pushing diabetes to begin with, and his baseline numbers seem to reflect that so he is not the ideal person to do this test on.

To put this into context yesterday my baseline fasting blood glucose was 80 (4.4) when I awoke. I had about 10 oz of pork belly for breakfast and an avocado. This turned out to be 30 grams of protein and about 180 grams of fat. 30 min after eating, it was 84 (4.6). 1 hour after eating it was 82 (4.5), then 90 min after eating, back down to 80(4.4). People I'm sure will look at the numbers and think hypoglycemia, but I felt perfectly fine and energetic. Cortisol? Nope, cortisol drags blood sugar up so so it wasn't a factor. I even reproduced the same fat bomb later that night with 4 pieces of bacon and 5 heaping tablespoons of home made caesear dressing made from mayo and bacon fat, on a giant spinach salad with cheese sprinkled on top. Glucose didn't climb higher than 87, and still felt perfectly fine. This second meal had about 110 grams of fat. I consumed more grams of fat in both instances than this guy did, yet my glucose level didn't climb higher than 4 and 7 points respectively, let alone 100 like his did and remained elevated long past the point it should have.

Now does that mean anyone here who tries to replicate that and have the same results? Maybe, maybe not; are you insulin resistant or pushing insulin resistance to begin with? Now if I'm starting from 80 and drink a half cup of olive oil, do you think my glucose will climb to 180? Highly unlikely, but then again, I'm not about to drink a half cup of olive oil because that would be disgusting lol.

90 minutes the fat probably wasn't even in your blood yet. How many carbs were with that?
 

Kyle M

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I'm having trouble understanding his experiment. He takes blood after consuming oil, then there's a couple of time lapses, during one of which he eats a pizza. There is another time lapse after that, and it seems like he is looking at blood taken after the pizza meal. Am I missing something? Surely he doesn't take blood right after the oil, and just let it sit for hours...
 

Kyle M

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maybe plain oil causes the agglutination while oil inside of real food doesn't as much.
The oils in foods are separated out during digestion and absorption and end up as pure fat in secreted lipoproteins any way. The only conceivable difference in whole foods vs. concentrated is in how they are digested, and in what the body does when it gets multiple types of nutrients at once (macros and micros). But fat in the blood is composed of the same stuff whether it's from a block of cheese or pure oil.
 

Ukall

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Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
205
Fairly, there's probably something intermediate going on. The idea that drinking oil makes that very oil get into your blood in a form that preferentially sticks to cells is whacky. They could be bumping around TGs or big lipoproteins, or those lipoproteins and other TGs could be recruiting monocytic intercellular adhesion molecules. But to simply that the fat it coating the cells themselves and making them sticky is like saying when you eat meat the meat protein goes into your blood and adds to your muscle cells.
Well, I must say the only way to prove if this is really true or not, is just someone testing it. And here I am.
He drank a 120ml of oil in one sitting. That would obviously cause temporary insulin resistance through Randle cycle. Who would eat that much fat in one meal though!??!
Unfortunately, I did something like that during two days.

My life, my health are a mess and hopeless right now.
Anything new that I try, always fail.
Curiously, I've started this journey to get better health (lol) on a High Carb diet (Wai Diet).
But it wasn't working: high adrenaline all day. I've never been so cold in my life.
Then I found Ray Peat. Tried some of his ideas and some ideas on this forum.
Everything, but everything goes always wrong also. I even react to a simple gelatin meal.

For me it's just like this:
- High Sugar p/day - Adrenaline all day
- High Starch p/day - Waking up in the middle of the night very itch and hot.
- Sugar + Starch - it doesn't work also. The presence of sugar itself spikes my adrenaline.

So, I am like... seriously? Do I have to really go to the Low-Carb world?

Of course, this is more complicate than it seems, because, perhaps the adrenaline I have during the day may be because I am allergic to some of those sugary foods.

So, I've decided to do an Elemental Diet or something like that, to try to finally discover what source of Carbs my body accepts better (either sugar (specially honey) or starch).
To do this, I had the idea to remove Carbs for two days (because to find out if I am indeed allergic to some food, having still traces of others foods inside my body will not give me true results).
But where I could get calories? Well, I react to Coconut Oil, so Olive Oil will be my choice.

And yea, during two days I've consumed around 150-200 mL of Olive Oil sometimes with some protein and sometimes just olive oil.

I felt very confused: when I ate protein + fat on a empty stomach as first meal of the day, I actually felt so relaxed.
I was like "Wtf is going on?"

So I continued doing this for two days, however, I've noticed something during the 2nd say that I wasn't liking to see:

- My skin was becoming really dry and flaky. And not only that, when I did some pressure on my skin, it would take more than 1 second to go back to its initial position AND what scared me most was the fact that the blood would also take more than 1 second to re-flow the area, this is, it would remain white/yellow and only after 1 second or more, the blood would slowly cover the area (becoming red). Also, when I was taking a shower, I've noticed that below my feet, they would become purple (bruised color). Walking was also starting to hurt me, because I was literately walking with my feet bones.

It has already passed 1 week that I did this, and as always, it is easy to destroy, hard to repair and rebuild: my skin and blood remains this way since then.

NOW, a big BUT

I am probably anemic atm.
When I started doing this, since I would not be getting any vitamins nor minerals, I had to supplement myself. So I went from a non-supplement person to heavily supplement person.
I am saying this, because I will never know if my blood is like this because of the excess olive oil OR if it was the shock of the excess supplements.

The supplements were:
- Multivitamin (Life Extension Mix™ Powder, 420 grams (14.81 oz))
- Magnesium Glycinate (Pure Encapsulations)
- Vitamin K (Super K with Advanced K2 Complex, 90 softgels)
- Potassium Bicarbonate (Amazon.com: Potassium Bicarbonate - 1 lb.: Industrial & Scientific)
- Calcium (as Coral Calcium from NOW Foods)

The questions will always remain: how did my skin and blood become like this?
Could be also the fact that I come from a High Carb diet, so my body doesn't handle this much fat at once since it's not adapted to it?
There are so many questions....

However, if my blood is thicker (and it is) indeed because of the amount of fat, we can say that this is probably true (the only way to completely confirm this, would be doing some blood tests.)

In the end, I'm just a desperate dumb person... because I should have first test the supplements while eating "normally", especially the multivitamin (which has tons of things), before doing this (but I wanted to save money...).
Even that feeling of being calm could be because of the supplements... I will never know, now.

Also, when I feel hopeless about my life... How can a person live like this?
- Brain fog
- Brain fatigue
- OCD
- ADHD
- Low libido
- Easily startled
- Always feeling scared
- Bad communication skills
- Irritability/Moodiness/Mood swings/Unstable emotions
- Racing mind
- Brain feels scattered
- Difficulty following conversations
- Difficulty following step by step instructions
- Generalized Anxiety Disorder
- Poor ability to tolerate stress
- Anxiety/Fears/Worrier
- Social Anxiety
- Panic Attacks
- Chronic Stress
- Anhedonia
- Dysthymia
- Feeling always depressed
- Memory problems
- Cognitive dysfunction
- Insomnia/Problems falling asleep
- Needing more than 8 hours of sleep (waking up several times during the night)
- Dream a lot
- Waking up not feeling rested
- Chronic fatigue – physical and mental
- Low motivation
- Think about the future/past a lot
- Get fixated on things
- Problems letting go of thoughts
- Unable to process quickly
- Constantly need to prove myself to others
- Fidgeting/Restlessness/Jittery legs
- Lip-biting
- I can't keep an eye contact with people
- Negative thoughts
- Procrastinate a lot
- Spend more time planning than implementing
- Lots of ambition, but too little motivation to implement
- Feel awake when should be winding down/in the late evening
- Feeling tired but wired at the same
- Poor coordination
- My handwriting is horrible
- Unusual sensitivity to sudden sounds
- Gut problems (constipation, slowed motility, IBS, SIBO, Candida)
- Excessive farting (if I eat certain foods)
- Nervous tension / Always feeling very tense (shoulders almost near my ears)
- My breathing is not smooth
- Fungus overgrowth
- Acne, dry skin, very elastic skin, hives, itching, eczema, dermatitis, skin spots, dandruff
- Orange/yellowish skin
- Bad circulation in hands, feet and in general (cold extremities)
- Intolerant to cold
- Dark purple circles under eyes
- Ingrown nails
- Chilblains
- Excess sebum
- Grey hair
- Get sick easily / or seem to ‘catch’ everything
- Mucous, Nasal drip
- Itchy/Runny nose
- Hemorrhoids
- Back pain
- Knee Pain/Arthritis
- Random pains in some parts of my body
- Weak gums
- Palpitations/Extra systoles
- Pounding heart
- Low blood pressure (under 100/70…. Doctors, of course, tells me that is better to be low than high)
- Low blood pressure when standing up (start seeing everything black, almost fainting)
- Increased intraocular pressure
- Muscle jerking/twitches
- Periodic changes in visual field, visual snow, floaters
- Seem to be allergic and get inflammation from all foods

-> Can attenuate/eliminate most of these symptoms if I remove certain foods. Or should I say: if I don't eat, I feel better.
 
Last edited:

haidut

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Messages
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I'm having trouble understanding his experiment. He takes blood after consuming oil, then there's a couple of time lapses, during one of which he eats a pizza. There is another time lapse after that, and it seems like he is looking at blood taken after the pizza meal. Am I missing something? Surely he doesn't take blood right after the oil, and just let it sit for hours...

Yeah, I noticed that too. Not sure why he does that. And it seems like he ate the whole box as by the end of the clip it seems empty.
 

haidut

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Messages
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isn't pizza just a bunch of empty carbs?

:cool:

...and quite a bit of additional fat. So, he probably ended up ingesting close to 200g of fat in one meal, combined with some starch.
 

Kyle M

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Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
1,407
Lots of starch, and some protein. Including gluten, if you're into that.
 

amethyst

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
533
Well, I must say the only way to prove if this is really true or not, is just someone testing it. And here I am.

Unfortunately, I did something like that during two days.

My life, my health are a mess and hopeless right now.
Anything new that I try, always fail.
Curiously, I've started this journey to get better health (lol) on a High Carb diet (Wai Diet).
But it wasn't working: high adrenaline all day. I've never been so cold in my life.
Then I found Ray Peat. Tried some of his ideas and some ideas on this forum.
Everything, but everything goes always wrong also. I even react to a simple gelatin meal.

For me it's just like this:
- High Sugar p/day - Adrenaline all day
- High Starch p/day - Waking up in the middle of the night very itch and hot.
- Sugar + Starch - it doesn't work also. The presence of sugar itself spikes my adrenaline.

So, I am like... seriously? Do I have to really go to the Low-Carb world?

Of course, this is more complicate than it seems, because, perhaps the adrenaline I have during the day may be because I am allergic to some of those sugary foods.

So, I've decided to do an Elemental Diet or something like that, to try to finally discover what source of Carbs my body accepts better (either sugar (specially honey) or starch).
To do this, I had the idea to remove Carbs for two days (because to find out if I am indeed allergic to some food, having still traces of others foods inside my body will not give me true results).
But where I could get calories? Well, I react to Coconut Oil, so Olive Oil will be my choice.

And yea, during two days I've consumed around 150-200 mL of Olive Oil sometimes with some protein and sometimes just olive oil.

I felt very confused: when I ate protein + fat on a empty stomach as first meal of the day, I actually felt so relaxed.
I was like "Wtf is going on?"

So I continued doing this for two days, however, I've noticed something during the 2nd say that I wasn't liking to see:

- My skin was becoming really dry and flaky. And not only that, when I did some pressure on my skin, it would take more than 1 second to go back to its initial position AND what scared me most was the fact that the blood would also take more than 1 second to re-flow the area, this is, it would remain white/yellow and only after 1 second or more, the blood would slowly cover the area (becoming red). Also, when I was taking a shower, I've noticed that below my feet, they would become purple (bruised color). Walking was also starting to hurt me, because I was literately walking with my feet bones.

It has already passed 1 week that I did this, and as always, it is easy to destroy, hard to repair and rebuild: my skin and blood remains this way since then.

NOW, a big BUT

I am probably anemic atm.
When I started doing this, since I would not be getting any vitamins nor minerals, I had to supplement myself. So I went from a non-supplement person to heavily supplement person.
I am saying this, because I will never know if my blood is like this because of the excess olive oil OR if it was the shock of the excess supplements.

The supplements were:
- Multivitamin (Life Extension Mix™ Powder, 420 grams (14.81 oz))
- Magnesium Glycinate (Pure Encapsulations)
- Vitamin K (Super K with Advanced K2 Complex, 90 softgels)
- Potassium Bicarbonate (Amazon.com: Potassium Bicarbonate - 1 lb.: Industrial & Scientific)
- Calcium (as Coral Calcium from NOW Foods)

The questions will always remain: how did my skin and blood become like this?
Could be also the fact that I come from a High Carb diet, so my body doesn't handle this much fat at once since it's not adapted to it?
There are so many questions....

However, if my blood is thicker (and it is) indeed because of the amount of fat, we can say that this is probably true (the only way to completely confirm this, would be doing some blood tests.)

In the end, I'm just a desperate dumb person... because I should have first test the supplements while eating "normally", especially the multivitamin (which has tons of things), before doing this (but I wanted to save money...).
Even that feeling of being calm could be because of the supplements... I will never know, now.

Also, when I feel hopeless about my life... How can a person live like this?
- Brain fog
- Brain fatigue
- OCD
- ADHD
- Low libido
- Easily startled
- Always feeling scared
- Bad communication skills
- Irritability/Moodiness/Mood swings/Unstable emotions
- Racing mind
- Brain feels scattered
- Difficulty following conversations
- Difficulty following step by step instructions
- Generalized Anxiety Disorder
- Poor ability to tolerate stress
- Anxiety/Fears/Worrier
- Social Anxiety
- Panic Attacks
- Chronic Stress
- Anhedonia
- Dysthymia
- Feeling always depressed
- Memory problems
- Cognitive dysfunction
- Insomnia/Problems falling asleep
- Needing more than 8 hours of sleep (waking up several times during the night)
- Dream a lot
- Waking up not feeling rested
- Chronic fatigue – physical and mental
- Low motivation
- Think about the future/past a lot
- Get fixated on things
- Problems letting go of thoughts
- Unable to process quickly
- Constantly need to prove myself to others
- Fidgeting/Restlessness/Jittery legs
- Lip-biting
- I can't keep an eye contact with people
- Negative thoughts
- Procrastinate a lot
- Spend more time planning than implementing
- Lots of ambition, but too little motivation to implement
- Feel awake when should be winding down/in the late evening
- Feeling tired but wired at the same
- Poor coordination
- My handwriting is horrible
- Unusual sensitivity to sudden sounds
- Gut problems (constipation, slowed motility, IBS, SIBO, Candida)
- Excessive farting (if I eat certain foods)
- Nervous tension / Always feeling very tense (shoulders almost near my ears)
- My breathing is not smooth
- Fungus overgrowth
- Acne, dry skin, very elastic skin, hives, itching, eczema, dermatitis, skin spots, dandruff
- Orange/yellowish skin
- Bad circulation in hands, feet and in general (cold extremities)
- Intolerant to cold
- Dark purple circles under eyes
- Ingrown nails
- Chilblains
- Excess sebum
- Grey hair
- Get sick easily / or seem to ‘catch’ everything
- Mucous, Nasal drip
- Itchy/Runny nose
- Hemorrhoids
- Back pain
- Knee Pain/Arthritis
- Random pains in some parts of my body
- Weak gums
- Palpitations/Extra systoles
- Pounding heart
- Low blood pressure (under 100/70…. Doctors, of course, tells me that is better to be low than high)
- Low blood pressure when standing up (start seeing everything black, almost fainting)
- Increased intraocular pressure
- Muscle jerking/twitches
- Periodic changes in visual field, visual snow, floaters
- Seem to be allergic and get inflammation from all foods

-> Can attenuate/eliminate most of these symptoms if I remove certain foods. Or should I say: if I don't eat, I feel better.
I think if you start taking a couple of tbsps. of apple cider vinegar in a cup of water with some honey/maple syrup etc. to offset the vinegar taste, for about a few days to a week, you can start to rebalance your overly thickened blood.
 

jyb

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
2,783
Location
UK
Strange experiment. If you want fat, there is no need to gag on some olive oil just drink a cup of double cream or milk shake.
 

Ukall

Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
205
I think if you start taking a couple of tbsps. of apple cider vinegar in a cup of water with some honey/maple syrup etc. to offset the vinegar taste, for about a few days to a week, you can start to rebalance your overly thickened blood.
Interesting, thank you very much. Though, I've stopped taking Apple Cider Vinegar because it would give me itchy on my nose. But I can still give it a try, why not.
What are the mechanisms that ACV (I suppose the acid) makes the blood thin?

I've always had thick blood as far I as can remember.
When I think about thick blood, this means it coagulates faster and, hence, my wounds should heal faster, right?
But I've always got puzzled, because on my blood tests I always have a higher Prothrombin Time than the normal range.
So, my healing isn't that fast as I thought... (Prothrombin Time is related to wound healing, right?)
Strange experiment. If you want fat, there is no need to gag on some olive oil just drink a cup of double cream or milk shake.
I wish, I just wish, I could have another source of fat, especially from dairy products.
To be honest, I may even be allergic to olive oil.
 
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