Looks Like These Scientists Are Looking To Jump Into The Anti Aging Realm

[skycop00]

One Of The World's Top Aging Researchers Has A Pill To Keep You Feeling Young

Maybe an opportunity for someone here....@Haidut?

 

[haidut]

One Of The World's Top Aging Researchers Has A Pill To Keep You Feeling Young

Maybe an opportunity for someone here....@Haidut?

Thanks for sharing.
So, I looked at the company and its product and basically I am less than impressed. The product contains pterostilbene and nicotinamide riboside (NR). NR has been making the news lately as the most efficient way of raising NAD levels in humans but the independent studies that compared NR to plain niacinamide showed the niacinamide kicked NR's **** in terms of boosting NAD. Niacinamide also has direct cellular action itself, while the same currently cannot be said about NR. So, while the raising NAD levels is good, there is nothing groundbreaking about it and there is no need to pay $60 a month for NR. On top of that, the addition of pterostilbene shows these scientists are just as deluded as the rest of mainstream medicine and still think that activating the sirtuins is good. They even cite being influenced by Sirtris and its work with resveratrol, to which pterostilbene is closely related. The fact that Sirtris fumbled and its clinical trials killed a few people is apparently not enough to make these people dig deeper and find the reasons. So, at best this product is an overpriced "meh" that is 50% good science and 50% bad science. I am not sure if this is "amazing" or sad. On one hand, I am glad that looking into NAD and its benefits is taking center stage. On the other hand, it shows lack of understanding of basic biochemistry considering that niacinamide/NR and the stilbenes are pretty much antagonists of each other. So, to not be aware of the dangers of stilbenes, their estrogenicity, and carcinogenicity is a bad thing on its own, but to combine a stilbene with NR is quite frankly not very bright. To charge $60/month for this is just adding insult to injury. You can blow the effects of this "cutting edge" supplement out of the water for a fraction of the cost by using low dose methylene blue and a decent B vitamins complex.
Just my 2c.

 

[skycop00]

I always appreciate your feedback. I too am always skeptical but not savvy enough scientifically. Appreciate the review...

 

[Manoko]

This seems really interesting to me.
Do niacinamide and nicotinamide riboside work the same way ? I haven't been feeling any difference by taking niacinamide to be honest.

 

[haidut]

This seems really interesting to me.
Do niacinamide and nicotinamide riboside work the same way ? I haven't been feeling any difference by taking niacinamide to be honest.

Yes, there are technically 3 precursors to NAD - niacinamide / nicotinamide, nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN), and nicotinamide riboside (NR). There are various companies making the claim that NR and NMN are somehow better at raising NAD but the animal studies I have seen show that all 3 are equally effective and niacinamide has some additional benefits like lowering cortisol and being an inhibitor of the sirtuins, that NR and NMN do not have much research on. I have tried all 3 and feel best on plain old niacinamide. So, when you factor in the price as well it really becomes a no-brainer what to take. At least to me

 

[Manoko]

Yes, there are technically 3 precursors to NAD - niacinamide / nicotinamide, nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN), and nicotinamide riboside (NR). There are various companies making the claim that NR and NMN are somehow better at raising NAD but the animal studies I have seen show that all 3 are equally effective and niacinamide has some additional benefits like lowering cortisol and being an inhibitor of the sirtuins, that NR and NMN do not have much research on. I have tried all 3 and feel best on plain old niacinamide. So, when you factor in the price as well it really becomes a no-brainer what to take. At least to me :)

Haidut, as always, thanks for the thorough and insightful answers.
I'll stick to niacinamide, my B complex from Thorne and Oxidal.

 

[Agent207]

NR has been making the news lately as the most efficient way of raising NAD levels in humans but the independent studies that compared NR to plain niacinamide showed the niacinamide kicked NR's **** in terms of boosting NAD. Niacinamide also has direct cellular action itself, while the same currently cannot be said about NR.

I don't have it that clear... look at this studies

Nicotinamide inhibits SIRT3,

"Through experimental kinetic studies, we demonstrate that NAM inhibition of SIRT3 involves apparent competition between the inhibitor and the enzyme cofactor NAD+, contrary to the traditional characterization of base exchange as noncompetitive inhibition"
Mechanism of inhibition of the human sirtuin enzyme SIRT3 by nicotinamide: computational and experimental studies. - PubMed - NCBI

While NR seems to activate it,
Activation of SIRT3 by the NAD⁺ precursor nicotinamide riboside protects from noise-induced hearing loss. - PubMed - NCBI


Not negating other possible positive mechanisms of action of Niacinamide, but NAM seems to be involved in a lot more than exposed around here... and theres research enough to thinking it twice before gambling with it.

 

[haidut]

I don't have it that clear... look at this studies

Nicotinamide inhibits SIRT3,

"Through experimental kinetic studies, we demonstrate that NAM inhibition of SIRT3 involves apparent competition between the inhibitor and the enzyme cofactor NAD+, contrary to the traditional characterization of base exchange as noncompetitive inhibition"
Mechanism of inhibition of the human sirtuin enzyme SIRT3 by nicotinamide: computational and experimental studies. - PubMed - NCBI

While NR seems to activate it,
Activation of SIRT3 by the NAD⁺ precursor nicotinamide riboside protects from noise-induced hearing loss. - PubMed - NCBI


Not negating other possible positive mechanisms of action of Niacinamide, but NAM seems to be involved in a lot more than exposed around here... and theres research enough to thinking it twice before gambling with it.

Nicotinamide is well known to activate SIRT in lower doses and inhibit it in higher doses. The effective concentration for SIRT inhibition starts at about 11 microMols, as described in the thread about niacinamide and DHT, which translates to about 100mg per dose for humans.
Niacinamide Is Androgenic And Increases Dht Effects/signaling
The chronic overactivation of sirtuins is behind many cancers and resveratrol is one known potent inducer of the sirtuins. The siruins are also activated by estrogen, and it is not by coincidence that resveratrol is a stilbenoid - i.e. a type of phytoestrogen. So, I would actually think twice before taking substances that activate sirtuins.
In clinical practice as well as in research circles niacinamide is known as a sirtuin antagonist, plain and simple. While that may not explain all of its beneficial effects, it probably explains a good deal of its cancer prevention/protection. Note that sirtuin inhibition is necessary for HDAC inhibition, and HDAC inhibitors are all the rage in anti-cancer drugs right now (both prevention and cure). As a result of its sirtuin inhibition, niacinamide is officially a class III HDAC inhibitor.
Do you mind posting the research on niacinamide that would make people "thinking it twice before gambling with it"?

 

[paymanz]

Nicotinamide is well known to activate SIRT in lower doses and inhibit it in higher doses. The effective concentration for SIRT inhibition starts at about 11 microMols, as described in the thread about niacinamide and DHT, which translates to about 100mg per dose for humans.

that means its better to not exceed 100mg dose of niacinamide?!

 

[ecstatichamster]

that means its better to not exceed 100mg dose of niacinamide?!

it leaves your system so darned quick...

I take it in a shake and try to down it over an hour or so. Gradual, smaller doses is better to keep levels reasonable I think.

 

[Demyze]

that means its better to not exceed 100mg dose of niacinamide?!

I think he's saying that 100mg+ inhibits SIRT which Haidut says is a good thing. So really I guess this means dropping below 11microMol concentration would activate these genes. So it definitely seems like fasting is a bad idea as I remember Martin Berkhan talking about the increased SIRT being a positive of IF

 

[haidut]

that means its better to not exceed 100mg dose of niacinamide?!

Nope, if sirtuin inhibition and thus HDAC inhibition is your goal then you should be taking at least 100mg per dose.

 

[haidut]

I think he's saying that 100mg+ inhibits SIRT which Haidut says is a good thing. So really I guess this means dropping below 11microMol concentration would activate these genes. So it definitely seems like fasting is a bad idea as I remember Martin Berkhan talking about the increased SIRT being a positive of IF

Exactly, inhibiting sirtuins is anti-estrogenic and inhibits HDAC, both of which give niacinamide anti-cancer effects (among others). And to inhibit the sirtuins and thus estrogen, HDAC, etc you need at least 11 micromols, which means at least 100mg per dose. Higher doses of niacinamide have much longer half life, so taking a single dose of 500mg may keep concentration higher than 11uM for longer than say taking 100mg every hour for 5 hours.
Histone deacetylase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Niacinamide Is Anti-estrogenic

 

[Makrosky]

Great post thanks haidut

 

[Nikki]

Yes, there are technically 3 precursors to NAD - niacinamide / nicotinamide, nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN), and nicotinamide riboside (NR). There are various companies making the claim that NR and NMN are somehow better at raising NAD but the animal studies I have seen show that all 3 are equally effective and niacinamide has some additional benefits like lowering cortisol and being an inhibitor of the sirtuins, that NR and NMN do not have much research on. I have tried all 3 and feel best on plain old niacinamide. So, when you factor in the price as well it really becomes a no-brainer what to take. At least to me :)

You have tried NMN? How much did you take and for how long? Last I checked it was $25,000/kg and I wasn't about to go there. I was told I would need about a gram a day for several months to see effects. My friend/neighbor is studying it's effects in humans as we speak. He took it himself, as the first human "guinnea pig", for 8 months. He said it is expected to lower disease markers significantly within 4 months (mentioned tumor necrosis factor and another which isn't coming to mind right now). His company's (Egaceutical) current trial will last 4 months. He is still looking for investor guinnea pigs in So Cal if anyone is interested ($15,000 to be in the trial). It didn't turn him into the 20 year-old hardbody we were hoping to see, but I noticed the skin on his face looked softer and newer with a more even tone. Stats on his biopsies and blood results will be in the patent which is due out soon. I look forward to reveiwing this information.

I will be quite happy to know that the affordable niacinamide I have is just as effective so I can have a healthier body and still afford a new truck. =)

 

[Regina]

Great post thanks haidut

+1

 

[haidut]

You have tried NMN? How much did you take and for how long? Last I checked it was $25,000/kg and I wasn't about to go there. I was told I would need about a gram a day for several months to see effects. My friend/neighbor is studying it's effects in humans as we speak. He took it himself, as the first human "guinnea pig", for 8 months. He said it is expected to lower disease markers significantly within 4 months (mentioned tumor necrosis factor and another which isn't coming to mind right now). His company's (Egaceutical) current trial will last 4 months. He is still looking for investor guinnea pigs in So Cal if anyone is interested ($15,000 to be in the trial). It didn't turn him into the 20 year-old hardbody we were hoping to see, but I noticed the skin on his face looked softer and newer with a more even tone. Stats on his biopsies and blood results will be in the patent which is due out soon. I look forward to reveiwing this information.

I will be quite happy to know that the affordable niacinamide I have is just as effective so I can have a healthier body and still afford a new truck. =)

You can buy it from Sigma and it is not that expensive. But again, neither NMN nor NR gave me anything that I did not feel niacinamide gave as well. You can drop your TNFa by 60% - 70% by taking a single capsule of 500mg niacinamide.
Inhibitory effect of nicotinamide on in vitro and in vivo production of tumor necrosis factor-alpha. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotinamide enhances apoptosis of G(M)-CSF-treated neutrophils and attenuates endotoxin-induced airway inflammation in mice | Lung Cellular and Molecular Physiology
Lower TNFa and IL-6 are common targets for treating "autoimmune" conditions like RA, Lupus, MS, etc. So, it is not surprising that niacinamide has been successfully used for all of these.
There is really nothing special about NMN or NR, except for the amazing marketing machine behind them.

 

[tankasnowgod]

It didn't turn him into the 20 year-old hardbody we were hoping to see, but I noticed the skin on his face looked softer and newer with a more even tone.

I get a similar thing when using topical niacinamide (mixed in alcohol) for a few days. Other than sun exposure and simply getting older, topical niacinamide is far and away the most beneficial thing I have ever used on my arms, which have always suffered from keratosis pilaris. I have some urea 40 cream, and that works pretty amazing on skin as well. Makes hard skin on feet smooth and hydrated with just couple days use.

 

[EIRE24]

I get a similar thing when using topical niacinamide (mixed in alcohol) for a few days. Other than sun exposure and simply getting older, topical niacinamide is far and away the most beneficial thing I have ever used on my arms, which have always suffered from keratosis pilaris. I have some urea 40 cream, and that works pretty amazing on skin as well. Makes hard skin on feet smooth and hydrated with just couple days use.

These two things worked better than any moisturiser? I'm looking for something for my very dry face

 

[tankasnowgod]

These two things worked better than any moisturiser? I'm looking for something for my very dry face

Urea might be the best moisteriser out there. It's known as a humectant, and it worked fantastically well on rough parts of my feet. I used Urea 40 Cream (brand name), as it only had urea, aloe vera and tea tree oil listed as ingredients.

I tried a bunch of differenet prescription creams (for KP) when I was younger, and they never seemed to do anything. Niacinamide does. Sometimes, it looks like my arms are really dry skin, but I think that's mostly residue from the solution.