Simply Diluting "old Blood" Has The Same Anti-aging Effects As Parabiosis

haidut

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The topic of using blood from young people to stave off aging and disease is hardly new. Rumors have been circulating for centuries that the old and rich use all kinds of gruesome methods to acquire blood from young people and use that blood for all sorts of bizarre rejuvenating procedures. There is even a company in California that offers a "young blood" infusion treatment for a hefty price, and the rumor is that this company counts the world's elite as its clients. A number of recent scientific studies seem to provide evidence in favor of the idea that replacing "old" blood with "young" one has anti-aging and anti-disease effects. The procedure is known in scientific circles as "parabiosis" and involved the physical joining of two organisms for the purpose of creating a single circulatory system and as such allowing one organism to influence the health/biochemistry of the other. Those recent studies demonstrated that when an old animals is conjoined with a young one, there is a profound rejuvenating effect on the old animal and many of the signs (and diseases) of aging disappear. These results got a lot of people interested in finding out what the "aging" factors in old blood are, of course, with the hope that it would turn out to be some obscure protein that can be specifically (and profitably) targeted with a vaccine, CRISPR technique, or a drug. Peat spoke about parabiosis during some of the KMUD interviews and shared the opinion that the process is probably nothing special but involved mostly the reduction in levels of free fatty acids (FFA) in the conjoined animals, given that their levels are quite low in the young animal and that is what is mostly responsible for its vitality and health. The study below partially corroborates Peat's views and demonstrates that a simple process of diluting the "old" blood while keeping albumin levels constant is enough to produce the same beneficial effects as parabiosis. In other words, removing all factors that carry an "age" imprint (whether young or old) creates a "neutral age" blood replacement and the study demonstrated that infusions with this neutral-age solution to old animals is just as anti-aging and therapeutic as parabiosis. The study does not directly single out FFA as the culprit in aging, however, considering that cells and glucose in the diluted blood were kept constant the only remaining factors that got diluted are various proteins leaking from cells in the body into the bloodstream and of course FFA. Considering the already existing evidence that cellular debris is hardly inert and can actually robustly activate the HPA axis, I think the it is quite plausible that precisely the reduction in such debris and FFA as a result of the dilution process is what triggers the anti-aging effects and allows the organism to restore itself to its youthful glory. No special tricks or multi-million dollar treatments needed.

Aging
https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/06/1...ma-rejuvenates-tissue-reverses-aging-in-mice/
"...After the Conboys published their groundbreaking 2005 work, showing that making conjoined twins from the old mouse and a young mouse reversed many signs of aging in the older mouse, many researchers seized on the idea that specific proteins in young blood could be the key to unlocking the body’s latent regeneration abilities. However, in the original report, and in a more recent study, when blood was exchanged between young and old animals without physically joining them, young animals showed signs of aging. These results indicated that that young blood circulating through young veins could not compete with old blood. As a result, the Conboys pursued the idea that a buildup of certain proteins with age is the main inhibitor of tissue maintenance and repair, and that diluting these proteins with blood exchange could also be the mechanism behind the original results. If true, this would suggest an alternative, safer path to successful clinical intervention: Instead of adding proteins from young blood, which could do harm to a patient, the dilution of age-elevated proteins could be therapeutic, while also allowing for the increase of young proteins by removing factors that could suppress them."

"...To test this hypothesis, the Conboys and their colleagues came up with the idea of performing “neutral” blood exchange. Instead of exchanging the blood of a mouse with that of a younger or an older animal, they would simply dilute the blood plasma by swapping out part of the animal’s blood plasma with a solution containing plasma’s most basic ingredients: saline and a protein called albumin. The albumin included in the solution simply replenished this abundant protein, which is needed for overall biophysical and biochemical blood health and was lost when half the plasma was removed. “We thought, ‘What if we had some neutral age blood, some blood that was not young or not old?’” said Michael Conboy. “We’ll do the exchange with that, and see if it still improves the old animal. That would mean that by diluting the bad stuff in the old blood, it made the animal better. And if the young animal got worse, then that would mean that that diluting the good stuff in the young animal made the young animal worse.” After finding that the neutral blood exchange significantly improved the health of old mice, the team conducted a proteomic analysis of the blood plasma of the animals to find out how the proteins in their blood changed following the procedure. The researchers performed a similar analysis on blood plasma from humans who had undergone therapeutic plasma exchange. They found that the plasma exchange process acts almost like a molecular reset button, lowering the concentrations of a number of pro-inflammatory proteins that become elevated with age, while allowing more beneficial proteins, like those that promote vascularization, to rebound in large numbers."

"...“I think it will take some time for people to really give up the idea that that young plasma contains rejuvenation molecules, or silver bullets, for aging,” said Dobri Kiprov, a medical director of Apheresis Care Group and a co-author of the paper. “I hope our results open the door for further research into using plasma exchange — not just for aging, but also for immunomodulation.”"
 

Peaches

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Considering the already existing evidence that cellular debris is hardly inert and can actually robustly activate the HPA axis, I think the it is quite plausible that precisely the reduction in such debris and FFA as a result of the dilution process is what triggers the anti-aging effects and allows the organism to restore itself to its youthful glory. No special tricks or multi-million dollar treatments needed.

Does this mean that something as old as wet cupping (aka hijama) would also have the same effects as it is essentially diluting the blood?
 

Tarmander

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so basically saline and albumin in an IV bag is going to give massive anti aging benefits?

Not really buying it...that or the anti aging benefits of young blood is overstated so anything will match
 

Regina

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The topic of using blood from young people to stave off aging and disease is hardly new. Rumors have been circulating for centuries that the old and rich use all kinds of gruesome methods to acquire blood from young people and use that blood for all sorts of bizarre rejuvenating procedures. There is even a company in California that offers a "young blood" infusion treatment for a hefty price, and the rumor is that this company counts the world's elite as its clients. A number of recent scientific studies seem to provide evidence in favor of the idea that replacing "old" blood with "young" one has anti-aging and anti-disease effects. The procedure is known in scientific circles as "parabiosis" and involved the physical joining of two organisms for the purpose of creating a single circulatory system and as such allowing one organism to influence the health/biochemistry of the other. Those recent studies demonstrated that when an old animals is conjoined with a young one, there is a profound rejuvenating effect on the old animal and many of the signs (and diseases) of aging disappear. These results got a lot of people interested in finding out what the "aging" factors in old blood are, of course, with the hope that it would turn out to be some obscure protein that can be specifically (and profitably) targeted with a vaccine, CRISPR technique, or a drug. Peat spoke about parabiosis during some of the KMUD interviews and shared the opinion that the process is probably nothing special but involved mostly the reduction in levels of free fatty acids (FFA) in the conjoined animals, given that their levels are quite low in the young animal and that is what is mostly responsible for its vitality and health. The study below partially corroborates Peat's views and demonstrates that a simple process of diluting the "old" blood while keeping albumin levels constant is enough to produce the same beneficial effects as parabiosis. In other words, removing all factors that carry an "age" imprint (whether young or old) creates a "neutral age" blood replacement and the study demonstrated that infusions with this neutral-age solution to old animals is just as anti-aging and therapeutic as parabiosis. The study does not directly single out FFA as the culprit in aging, however, considering that cells and glucose in the diluted blood were kept constant the only remaining factors that got diluted are various proteins leaking from cells in the body into the bloodstream and of course FFA. Considering the already existing evidence that cellular debris is hardly inert and can actually robustly activate the HPA axis, I think the it is quite plausible that precisely the reduction in such debris and FFA as a result of the dilution process is what triggers the anti-aging effects and allows the organism to restore itself to its youthful glory. No special tricks or multi-million dollar treatments needed.

Aging
https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/06/1...ma-rejuvenates-tissue-reverses-aging-in-mice/
"...After the Conboys published their groundbreaking 2005 work, showing that making conjoined twins from the old mouse and a young mouse reversed many signs of aging in the older mouse, many researchers seized on the idea that specific proteins in young blood could be the key to unlocking the body’s latent regeneration abilities. However, in the original report, and in a more recent study, when blood was exchanged between young and old animals without physically joining them, young animals showed signs of aging. These results indicated that that young blood circulating through young veins could not compete with old blood. As a result, the Conboys pursued the idea that a buildup of certain proteins with age is the main inhibitor of tissue maintenance and repair, and that diluting these proteins with blood exchange could also be the mechanism behind the original results. If true, this would suggest an alternative, safer path to successful clinical intervention: Instead of adding proteins from young blood, which could do harm to a patient, the dilution of age-elevated proteins could be therapeutic, while also allowing for the increase of young proteins by removing factors that could suppress them."

"...To test this hypothesis, the Conboys and their colleagues came up with the idea of performing “neutral” blood exchange. Instead of exchanging the blood of a mouse with that of a younger or an older animal, they would simply dilute the blood plasma by swapping out part of the animal’s blood plasma with a solution containing plasma’s most basic ingredients: saline and a protein called albumin. The albumin included in the solution simply replenished this abundant protein, which is needed for overall biophysical and biochemical blood health and was lost when half the plasma was removed. “We thought, ‘What if we had some neutral age blood, some blood that was not young or not old?’” said Michael Conboy. “We’ll do the exchange with that, and see if it still improves the old animal. That would mean that by diluting the bad stuff in the old blood, it made the animal better. And if the young animal got worse, then that would mean that that diluting the good stuff in the young animal made the young animal worse.” After finding that the neutral blood exchange significantly improved the health of old mice, the team conducted a proteomic analysis of the blood plasma of the animals to find out how the proteins in their blood changed following the procedure. The researchers performed a similar analysis on blood plasma from humans who had undergone therapeutic plasma exchange. They found that the plasma exchange process acts almost like a molecular reset button, lowering the concentrations of a number of pro-inflammatory proteins that become elevated with age, while allowing more beneficial proteins, like those that promote vascularization, to rebound in large numbers."

"...“I think it will take some time for people to really give up the idea that that young plasma contains rejuvenation molecules, or silver bullets, for aging,” said Dobri Kiprov, a medical director of Apheresis Care Group and a co-author of the paper. “I hope our results open the door for further research into using plasma exchange — not just for aging, but also for immunomodulation.”"
Quick. Send this to the oligarchs. Thiel, Bezos, and Ellison can stop drooling for children.
 

haidut

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Quick. Send this to the oligarchs. Thiel, Bezos, and Ellison can stop drooling for children.

That's what I first thought when I saw this study and said to myself "phew, less children will be tortured for the elite's evil projects"...and then I realized organ transplants are at an all-time high and many of the "elite" have been quite open about planning on replacing all of their organs, if possible. Guess who will be the source of those organs?
 

tankasnowgod

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The topic of using blood from young people to stave off aging and disease is hardly new. Rumors have been circulating for centuries that the old and rich use all kinds of gruesome methods to acquire blood from young people and use that blood for all sorts of bizarre rejuvenating procedures. There is even a company in California that offers a "young blood" infusion treatment for a hefty price, and the rumor is that this company counts the world's elite as its clients. A number of recent scientific studies seem to provide evidence in favor of the idea that replacing "old" blood with "young" one has anti-aging and anti-disease effects. The procedure is known in scientific circles as "parabiosis" and involved the physical joining of two organisms for the purpose of creating a single circulatory system and as such allowing one organism to influence the health/biochemistry of the other. Those recent studies demonstrated that when an old animals is conjoined with a young one, there is a profound rejuvenating effect on the old animal and many of the signs (and diseases) of aging disappear. These results got a lot of people interested in finding out what the "aging" factors in old blood are, of course, with the hope that it would turn out to be some obscure protein that can be specifically (and profitably) targeted with a vaccine, CRISPR technique, or a drug. Peat spoke about parabiosis during some of the KMUD interviews and shared the opinion that the process is probably nothing special but involved mostly the reduction in levels of free fatty acids (FFA) in the conjoined animals, given that their levels are quite low in the young animal and that is what is mostly responsible for its vitality and health. The study below partially corroborates Peat's views and demonstrates that a simple process of diluting the "old" blood while keeping albumin levels constant is enough to produce the same beneficial effects as parabiosis. In other words, removing all factors that carry an "age" imprint (whether young or old) creates a "neutral age" blood replacement and the study demonstrated that infusions with this neutral-age solution to old animals is just as anti-aging and therapeutic as parabiosis. The study does not directly single out FFA as the culprit in aging, however, considering that cells and glucose in the diluted blood were kept constant the only remaining factors that got diluted are various proteins leaking from cells in the body into the bloodstream and of course FFA. Considering the already existing evidence that cellular debris is hardly inert and can actually robustly activate the HPA axis, I think the it is quite plausible that precisely the reduction in such debris and FFA as a result of the dilution process is what triggers the anti-aging effects and allows the organism to restore itself to its youthful glory. No special tricks or multi-million dollar treatments needed.

Aging
https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/06/1...ma-rejuvenates-tissue-reverses-aging-in-mice/
"...After the Conboys published their groundbreaking 2005 work, showing that making conjoined twins from the old mouse and a young mouse reversed many signs of aging in the older mouse, many researchers seized on the idea that specific proteins in young blood could be the key to unlocking the body’s latent regeneration abilities. However, in the original report, and in a more recent study, when blood was exchanged between young and old animals without physically joining them, young animals showed signs of aging. These results indicated that that young blood circulating through young veins could not compete with old blood. As a result, the Conboys pursued the idea that a buildup of certain proteins with age is the main inhibitor of tissue maintenance and repair, and that diluting these proteins with blood exchange could also be the mechanism behind the original results. If true, this would suggest an alternative, safer path to successful clinical intervention: Instead of adding proteins from young blood, which could do harm to a patient, the dilution of age-elevated proteins could be therapeutic, while also allowing for the increase of young proteins by removing factors that could suppress them."

"...To test this hypothesis, the Conboys and their colleagues came up with the idea of performing “neutral” blood exchange. Instead of exchanging the blood of a mouse with that of a younger or an older animal, they would simply dilute the blood plasma by swapping out part of the animal’s blood plasma with a solution containing plasma’s most basic ingredients: saline and a protein called albumin. The albumin included in the solution simply replenished this abundant protein, which is needed for overall biophysical and biochemical blood health and was lost when half the plasma was removed. “We thought, ‘What if we had some neutral age blood, some blood that was not young or not old?’” said Michael Conboy. “We’ll do the exchange with that, and see if it still improves the old animal. That would mean that by diluting the bad stuff in the old blood, it made the animal better. And if the young animal got worse, then that would mean that that diluting the good stuff in the young animal made the young animal worse.” After finding that the neutral blood exchange significantly improved the health of old mice, the team conducted a proteomic analysis of the blood plasma of the animals to find out how the proteins in their blood changed following the procedure. The researchers performed a similar analysis on blood plasma from humans who had undergone therapeutic plasma exchange. They found that the plasma exchange process acts almost like a molecular reset button, lowering the concentrations of a number of pro-inflammatory proteins that become elevated with age, while allowing more beneficial proteins, like those that promote vascularization, to rebound in large numbers."

"...“I think it will take some time for people to really give up the idea that that young plasma contains rejuvenation molecules, or silver bullets, for aging,” said Dobri Kiprov, a medical director of Apheresis Care Group and a co-author of the paper. “I hope our results open the door for further research into using plasma exchange — not just for aging, but also for immunomodulation.”"

I remember Peat talking about a process like this done in dogs. They took the blood of an old dog, centrifuged out the red blood cells, and replaced with the plasma with some neutral liquid, injected it back into the same dog, and the dog became frisky again.
 

tankasnowgod

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so basically saline and albumin in an IV bag is going to give massive anti aging benefits?

Not really buying it...that or the anti aging benefits of young blood is overstated so anything will match

Why not? Blood donors tend to live longer than non donors, and also tend to be healthier than before they started donating. So the concept of "bad stuff in older blood" isn't baseless, even without the mouse experiment.

Iron is an obvious factor that gets reduced in blood dontaion, but FFAs and other debris could be an issue, too.
 

yerrag

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Ehhh, intervention again.

The FFAs are there because they're not being metabolized because of poor blood glucose regulation causing too much insulin production. Insulin inhibits lipolysis, fatty acid oxidation, and ketogenesis. Insulin also leads to conversion of glucose to fatty acids. Most people have poor glucose metabolism and its twin poor blood glucose regulation. They produce a lot of insulin. Fix their poor blood glucose regulation. Make it optimal and there will be much less insulin floating around. Less fatty acids as well.
 

Vinny

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Ehhh, intervention again.

The FFAs are there because they're not being metabolized because of poor blood glucose regulation causing too much insulin production. Insulin inhibits lipolysis, fatty acid oxidation, and ketogenesis. Insulin also leads to conversion of glucose to fatty acids. Most people have poor glucose metabolism and its twin poor blood glucose regulation. They produce a lot of insulin. Fix their poor blood glucose regulation. Make it optimal and there will be much less insulin floating around. Less fatty acids as well.
+1
 

mimmo123

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The company that is already doing this at Young Blood Institute. I think its like 200k to do it there reversing Alzheimer's, Parkinson's etc
Currently clinical trials going on

Young Blood Transfusions For Anti-Aging, Alzheimers, Parkinson's & More
  • Blood drawn from one arm; spun around in centrifuge; separates red, white, plasma (by gravity);
  • Machine can draw whichever component you want (platelets, plasma, red cells, etc.)
  • Blood is reinserted into the arm sans whichever component you want (ex. plasma) and new plasma is inserted via IV
  • New plasma comes from various sources: actual plasma and purified plasma components
    • Broke college kids donate plasma for gas money (creating a very large plasma pool)
    • Water is taken out of the plasma; what's left is albumin, immunoglobulins, fibrinogen
    • Similar to frozen lemonade (just add water)



      But what has completely flown under the radar is the fact that plasma transfusions of young blood have been found, in clinical research studies, to have never-before-seen effects on chronic health conditions such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, autoimmunity, and many others.

      In today's podcast, with Mark Urdahl and nursing supervisor, Gloria, you'll get never-before-heard breakthrough information on how young blood transfusions really work for these conditions, along with their true effects on anti-aging and longevity.

      Mark Urdahl serves as Chairman and CEO of the Young Blood Institute, a non-profit corporation conducting clinical trials in the use of therapeutic plasma exchange as a modality to systemically prevent cellular senescence and the onset of associated immunological, neurological, and cardiovascular disorders. Mr. Urdahl and his team at the Young Blood Institute have also pioneered the concurrent use of the world’s most advanced, state-of-the-art, ultrasensitive, high-precision blood serum measurement technologies to capture comprehensive “big data” of the human body, an unprecedented combination of testing technologies in human medicine or human clinical research, in order to understand never-before-seen correlations which might lead to discovery of root causes of age-associated disorders.

      He began his career with IBM Biomedical Systems, which, in partnership with the National Cancer Institute, invented the world’s first automated blood cell separator, first commercially produced by IBM in the 70s as the IBM 2997. After IBM sold its Biomedical Systems business unit to COBE Laboratories in 1984, Mr. Urdahl became a systems engineer supporting IBM large systems accounts, including notable innovators in health care management. Mr. Urdahl went on to lead a distinguished career at IBM, where he held management positions in marketing and sales, technology development, corporate development. After IBM, he founded Applied Science Fiction (ASF), a digital imaging company where he served as Chairman and CEO, overseeing the development of over 150 patent applications and licensing its technology to nearly every major imaging OEM worldwide, including Nikon, Agfa, Minolta, and many others.

      Mr. Urdahl subsequently formed the Young Blood Institute as a non-profit 501 (c) (3) corporation to research anti-aging therapies under clinical trials, recruiting world-class principal investigators, establishing a nation-wide network of nurses and private care physicians, creating the most advanced biomarker testing platform in the world, and developing a “big data” database capable of storing data in the cloud in perpetuity. In 2008, Mr. Urdahl led an investment group to acquire the storage network monitoring business unit of Finisar Corp, including a portfolio of 20+ patents/applications, to form a privately held company, Virtual Instruments.

      He subsequently formed the Young Blood Institute to research anti-aging therapies under clinical trials, recruit world-class principal investigators, establish a nation-wide network of nurses and private care physicians, create the most advanced biomarker testing platform in the world, and develop a “big data” database capable of storing data in the cloud in perpetuity.



 

Regina

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The company that is already doing this at Young Blood Institute. I think its like 200k to do it there reversing Alzheimer's, Parkinson's etc
Currently clinical trials going on

Young Blood Transfusions For Anti-Aging, Alzheimers, Parkinson's & More



    • Blood drawn from one arm; spun around in centrifuge; separates red, white, plasma (by gravity);
    • Machine can draw whichever component you want (platelets, plasma, red cells, etc.)
    • Blood is reinserted into the arm sans whichever component you want (ex. plasma) and new plasma is inserted via IV
    • New plasma comes from various sources: actual plasma and purified plasma components
      • Broke college kids donate plasma for gas money (creating a very large plasma pool)
      • Water is taken out of the plasma; what's left is albumin, immunoglobulins, fibrinogen
      • Similar to frozen lemonade (just add water)



        But what has completely flown under the radar is the fact that plasma transfusions of young blood have been found, in clinical research studies, to have never-before-seen effects on chronic health conditions such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, autoimmunity, and many others.

        In today's podcast, with Mark Urdahl and nursing supervisor, Gloria, you'll get never-before-heard breakthrough information on how young blood transfusions really work for these conditions, along with their true effects on anti-aging and longevity.

        Mark Urdahl serves as Chairman and CEO of the Young Blood Institute, a non-profit corporation conducting clinical trials in the use of therapeutic plasma exchange as a modality to systemically prevent cellular senescence and the onset of associated immunological, neurological, and cardiovascular disorders. Mr. Urdahl and his team at the Young Blood Institute have also pioneered the concurrent use of the world’s most advanced, state-of-the-art, ultrasensitive, high-precision blood serum measurement technologies to capture comprehensive “big data” of the human body, an unprecedented combination of testing technologies in human medicine or human clinical research, in order to understand never-before-seen correlations which might lead to discovery of root causes of age-associated disorders.

        He began his career with IBM Biomedical Systems, which, in partnership with the National Cancer Institute, invented the world’s first automated blood cell separator, first commercially produced by IBM in the 70s as the IBM 2997. After IBM sold its Biomedical Systems business unit to COBE Laboratories in 1984, Mr. Urdahl became a systems engineer supporting IBM large systems accounts, including notable innovators in health care management. Mr. Urdahl went on to lead a distinguished career at IBM, where he held management positions in marketing and sales, technology development, corporate development. After IBM, he founded Applied Science Fiction (ASF), a digital imaging company where he served as Chairman and CEO, overseeing the development of over 150 patent applications and licensing its technology to nearly every major imaging OEM worldwide, including Nikon, Agfa, Minolta, and many others.

        Mr. Urdahl subsequently formed the Young Blood Institute as a non-profit 501 (c) (3) corporation to research anti-aging therapies under clinical trials, recruiting world-class principal investigators, establishing a nation-wide network of nurses and private care physicians, creating the most advanced biomarker testing platform in the world, and developing a “big data” database capable of storing data in the cloud in perpetuity. In 2008, Mr. Urdahl led an investment group to acquire the storage network monitoring business unit of Finisar Corp, including a portfolio of 20+ patents/applications, to form a privately held company, Virtual Instruments.

        He subsequently formed the Young Blood Institute to research anti-aging therapies under clinical trials, recruit world-class principal investigators, establish a nation-wide network of nurses and private care physicians, create the most advanced biomarker testing platform in the world, and develop a “big data” database capable of storing data in the cloud in perpetuity.


"non-profit". Sounds so philanthropic. (not)
 

Tarmander

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Why not? Blood donors tend to live longer than non donors, and also tend to be healthier than before they started donating. So the concept of "bad stuff in older blood" isn't baseless, even without the mouse experiment.

Iron is an obvious factor that gets reduced in blood dontaion, but FFAs and other debris could be an issue, too.
I have had a ton of saline bags, I know others who have had a ton of saline bags.

They make you feel good and hydrated but aren't the fountain of youth.

Which just leaves Albumin...it just doesn't seem very likely to me unless you are actually purifying it from actual blood. Maybe that structures the water as well?
 

Ras

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God said that the life of the flesh is in the blood. I believe there is something special in the blood; Dr. Harold Katcher agrees.
 

yerrag

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God said that the life of the flesh is in the blood. I believe there is something special in the blood; Dr. Harold Katcher agrees.
You linked to this: Rumors of Age Reversal: The Plasma Fraction Cure

Nice read. Funny though, when I read it on my smartphone, it gives me a longer article than when I read it on my laptop.

The laptop version ends this way:

The bottom line

I respect Harold’s caution in protecting his discovery out of the reach of Big Pharma. On the other hand, so many questions are not being addressed because his resources are limited. This is indeed a very promising start, and let’s hope that the appropriate connections come along so that further experiments can proceed without delay.
Whereas, in my smartphone, there is still a long discussion after that, which is also very interesting:

...without delay...

...As I wrote last spring, we can efficiently test treatments...

I lost count, there were at least 60+ more paragraphs.​
 

JudiBlueHen

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@yerrag, @Vinny, help me out here. I'm 73, normal fasting serum glucose (90 mg/dL) but high insulin (16-18 uU/mL), HOMA-IR 3.8, and high cholesterol (but I refuse statins). So what is the recommendation to enhance my glucose metabolism/regulation? Note - I minimize (but not eliminate) PUFAs, FWIW.
 

tankasnowgod

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I have had a ton of saline bags, I know others who have had a ton of saline bags.

They make you feel good and hydrated but aren't the fountain of youth.

Which just leaves Albumin...it just doesn't seem very likely to me unless you are actually purifying it from actual blood. Maybe that structures the water as well?

How frequently did you take these saline bags? Once a week for 12 weeks? Did you have 6 pints of saline infused at a time?

I ask because this might be the level that's necessary to achieve "anti-aging" effects.
 

yerrag

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@yerrag, @Vinny, help me out here. I'm 73, normal fasting serum glucose (90 mg/dL) but high insulin (16-18 uU/mL), HOMA-IR 3.8, and high cholesterol (but I refuse statins). So what is the recommendation to enhance my glucose metabolism/regulation? Note - I minimize (but not eliminate) PUFAs, FWIW.
Your FBS only gives you blood glucose at the end of at least 8 hours after a meal. It doesn't tell you how long after a meal your blood sugar, after rising, starts to go down. And it doesn't tell you when and how steep your blood sugar comes down, and doesn't tell you how low blood sugar goes down - whether it goes below 70, before it starts to recover and reach 90 by the time your blood sugar is taken. It doesn't tell you also if your blood sugar, after a meal, ever went down below 90.

But it's likely blood sugar went lower than 90, given the high insulin. Insulin being that high, it's also likely blood sugar went below 70, to where you got hypoglycemic. And it may be that your blood sugar recovered, a sign of having glycogen stores, and you were able to recover to a BS of 90.

Probably your BS didn't drop too low before glucagon signaled glycogen to be converted to blood sugar. But what's more likely is that BS recovered rapidly from say 65 to 90 because your tissues aren't absorbing/metabolizing blood sugar fast enough, thus allowing blood sugar to reach 90.

If you had dips in energy (or you were waking up at night and feeling hungry or just feel hard to continue sleeping) that would confirm you have hypoglycemia.

This is all just educated guesses in the absence of a 5hr Glucose Tolerance Test.

Still, insulin being that high probably means the body is lacking in potassium to facilitate tissue absorption of glucose, or if potassium is sufficient, the body is slow in metabolizing the sugar such that tissues can't absorb more sugar. As a result, your blood sugar was able to reach 90 from a hypoglycemic state. 90 in itself looks good and it deceives us into thinking it's a nice number. But reaching a hypoglycemic state, your BS should stabilize around 70-85 if your tissues were able to use blood sugar normally.

That insulin is very high could mean that the body is producing more insulin to try to increase blood sugar absorption by tissues--and failing. While insulin is not necessary for tissue absorption of sugar (contrary to conventional medical wisdom), it is being produced greatly to try to get the body to increase its sugar absorption.

So, there is a problem definitely with having poor glucose metabolism.

Sugar metabolism and blood sugar regulation are intertwined in a virtual cycle. In your case, as is the case with most people, it is that of a vicious cycle. Fixing your condition, you have to turn this into a. virtuous cycle.
 
Last edited:

Recoen

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I have had a ton of saline bags, I know others who have had a ton of saline bags.

They make you feel good and hydrated but aren't the fountain of youth.

Which just leaves Albumin...it just doesn't seem very likely to me unless you are actually purifying it from actual blood. Maybe that structures the water as well?

RP answers that in this conversation

It has to do with the albumin and sodium keeping the water out of tissue.
 

yerrag

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Your FBS only gives you blood glucose at the end of at least 8 hours after a meal. It doesn't tell you how long after a meal your blood sugar, after rising, starts to go down. And it doesn't tell you when and how steep your blood sugar comes down, and doesn't tell you how low blood sugar goes down - whether it goes below 70, before it starts to recover and reach 90 by the time your blood sugar is taken. It doesn't tell you also if your blood sugar, after a meal, ever went down below 90.

But it's likely blood sugar went lower than 90, given the high insulin. Insulin being that high, it's also likely blood sugar went below 70, to where you got hypoglycemic. And it may be that your blood sugar recovered, a sign of having glycogen stores, and you were able to recover to a BS of 90.

Probably your BS didn't drop too low before glucagon signaled glycogen to be converted to blood sugar. But what's more likely is that BS recovered rapidly from say 65 to 90 because your tissues aren't absorbing/metabolizing blood sugar fast enough, thus allowing blood sugar to reach 90.

If you had dips in energy (or you were waking up at night and feeling hungry or just feel hard to continue sleeping) that would confirm you have hypoglycemia.

This is all just educated guesses in the absence of a 5hr Glucose Tolerance Test.

Still, insulin being that high probably means the body is lacking in potassium to facilitate tissue absorption of glucose, or if potassium is sufficient, the body is slow in metabolizing the sugar such that tissues can't absorb more sugar. As a result, your blood sugar was able to reach 90 from a hypoglycemic state. 90 in itself looks good and it deceives us into thinking it's a nice number. But reaching a hypoglycemic state, your BS should stabilize around 70-85 if your tissues were able to use blood sugar normally.

That insulin is very high could mean that the body is producing more insulin to try to increase blood sugar absorption by tissues--and failing. While insulin is not necessary for tissue absorption of sugar (contrary to conventional medical wisdom), it is being produced greatly to try to get the body to increase its sugar absorption.

So, there is a problem definitely with having poor glucose metabolism.

Sugar metabolism and blood sugar regulation are intertwined in a virtual cycle. In your case, as is the case with most people, it is that of a vicious cycle. Fixing your condition, you have to turn this into a. virtuous cycle.

I stopped because I have a tendency to make an explanation very long. And I think people have a hard time when they see something very long. And I'm afraid that I'll be writing very long for nothing. So if you understand and want me to conitnue, I will.

This subject is hard to understand writing it. A nice video series on this would be more helpful. But I don't have time to do it. In some recent threads, I've fallen flat explaining this but I'm not doing a good job explaining where I see the person I'm explaining it to getting it. Very frustrating on my part. I should actually take a break from this forum haha.
 

JudiBlueHen

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Jun 26, 2017
Messages
268
I stopped because I have a tendency to make an explanation very long. And I think people have a hard time when they see something very long. And I'm afraid that I'll be writing very long for nothing. So if you understand and want me to conitnue, I will.

This subject is hard to understand writing it. A nice video series on this would be more helpful. But I don't have time to do it. In some recent threads, I've fallen flat explaining this but I'm not doing a good job explaining where I see the person I'm explaining it to getting it. Very frustrating on my part. I should actually take a break from this forum haha.

Thank you so much - please continue! I read all of your posts end-to-end, as I am trying to learn all I can. I am a retired engineer (systems, software), but no biology/chemistry/medical background.

I definitely have the signs of hypoglycemia that you describe - waking up at 4am and unable to get back to sleep for example, and sudden "drain" at various times during the day. I had a GTT decades ago in which I had what they call a "flat curve" hypoglycemia (it didn't go high enough after the glucose, but dropped to 52 later in the test). Because my fasting glucose is always in the 90's, no doc since ever considers a GTT.

So I could increase potassium by drinking more OJ, but what else can I do? And thanks again!
 
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