Looking At Birds To Understand PUFA? High Body Temp Still Eats Seeds And Fatty Fish

Discussion in 'Animals' started by Kingpinguin, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. Kingpinguin

    Kingpinguin Member

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    So just curious if there’s any parallels you can draw from looking at birds vs humans. Their body temperature generally us higher than humans around 40 celsius instead of 37. So I was amazed over how much PUFA birds eat. They eat lots of seeds and also fish and dead fish. They must have good antioxidant capacity since omega 3 is so oxidative and poisonous combined with their higher body temperatures? Well researching on the subject shows that feeding birds omega 3 actually also reduces inflammation and prevents artherosclerosis as birds fed mainly omega 6 do show signs of chronic inflammation and artherosclerosis. So once again evidence shows that it is the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 is what matters at least for birds? And I would assume at least for humans aswell. Keeping PUFA low is obviously still ideal but over time if you never eat seafood you might likely accomplish an out of waxk ratio of n3 to n6. Specially since the meat, eggs, liver etc all contain more n6 today then 100 years ago. Grass feed animals likely provided enough omega 3 as it was to keep the ratio stable. But today grains make the animals sick and with time this animal fat will likely make you sick aswell. Then I can’t help to wonder if eating fish 1-2 times per week at least would help to counter this. Im curious if more people could contribute the subject. I do believe small amounts of EPA and DHA has their benefits in the system. EPA for combating arachidonic acid and DHA for synaptamide an endogenous cannabinoid promoting synaptic neuron growth?
     
  2. OP
    Kingpinguin

    Kingpinguin Member

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    Also thinking these endocannabinoids is important for dopamine system. Much research tend to show how DHA boost the dopamine system. And many peaters complain of the regular low dopamine symptoms such as lack of motivation, deive, sex drive, fatigue
     
  3. Gadsie

    Gadsie Member

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    Birds have a different metabolism, I recall they can saturate PUFA’s, or something similar, so it’s not really comparable

    if you’re concerned about omega 3, eat an oyster every now and then
     
  4. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    Birds are not ruminant animals, they don't saturate pufa any significant way.
     
  5. OP
    Kingpinguin

    Kingpinguin Member

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    that is not the point and i have not seen any evidence of them saturating omega 3. I have seen evidence that they are more efficient at actually producing more omega 3. In what way do they have another metabolism? You mean they dont have cells that produce atp, cell membranes, same dna, proteins etc as us? Its exactly the same. In my opinion the dangers of ROS is overstated and reactive oxygen species is even needed for cellular respiration. Its just another process of the metabolism and its all a balance scale. If you look at historical data we used to eat mpre omega 3 than what we are doing naturally and much much much less omega 6. If that omega 3 we got at that time was good or bad doesnt really matter because the difference is rather insignificant. We maybe got twice as much omega 3 about 100 years ago than today and that would be like 2 grams per day instead of 1 gram. But if you look at omega 6 we probably got 4-6 grams on a bad day back then while now a lot of people are eating anything between 30-100 grams of the stuff. My conclusion is that its the excess omega 6 that has caused all the autoimmune problems today and not omega 3. And I’m starting to believe that omega 3 actually has a role to play in it although at pyshiological doses such as found in seafood and not rancid fish oil supplements. Just because it helps balance the scale of inflammation. You’ve read about resolvins? You even read about synaptamide? Its like the iron hate on this forum. Its still needed and without it you be dead.
     
  6. rei

    rei Member

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    It depends on the bird and it's adaptation. A canary parrot that people keep as pets live twice as long if it is fed fruit and nuts etc instead of seeds and normal bird food grains etc.

    Chickens only eat seeds and grains if you don't provide something better. They go cracy for bugs, worms, ants, maggots etc. and spend almost all waking time scratching the ground looking for them even if you provide as much grains as they can eat. So maybe the "normal bird food" is not so common in nature after all.
     
  7. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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  8. OP
    Kingpinguin

    Kingpinguin Member

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    yeah seeds and grains are bad like i said/ pointed out because of high omega 6 content. And the birds you mentioned are not fish eating birds. Many of the fish eating birds live very long. And yeah we already know that chickens who eat the right type of foods convert more omega 3 and also lay eggs with more omega 3 they also live longer and healthier with less infections and inflammation. And I’m not saying that eating primarily fish is better than eating fruit for birds like parrots. What I am saying is that birds as a species is proof that just because you’re an animal with high metabolism and body temperature of a warm blooded species doesnt mean when you eat omega 6 it will instantly oxidize and go rancid inside your body and cause oxidative stress. Thats clearly not the case. You have the bald eagle eats mainly fish and can become 50 years same with pelican. If you look at studies comparing artherosclerosis development in birds omega 6 feeding is what leads to plaque build up. We feed these animals with the same omega 6 oils we feed ourselves.
     
  9. OP
    Kingpinguin

    Kingpinguin Member

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    What is common im nature is warm blooded animals like eagles, seagulls, pelicans eat lots of omega 3 and they don’t get sick. Proven the opposite. Doesnt mean that its the ultimate diet tho. Just stating that omega 3 danger might be overstated and that a certain degree of it could be necessary
     
  10. rei

    rei Member

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    I would be surprised if it was not damaging also them, just like humans and chickens. The small fish they eat is not very fatty and they have evolved specifically for it.
     
  11. postman

    postman Member

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    how can you come to these conclusions if there is no study in which birds have been fed a diet devoid of PUFA?
     
  12. OP
    Kingpinguin

    Kingpinguin Member

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    dont have to. I know that our diets increased in n6 and decreased in n3 so it cant be the n3 causing disease. What types of disease does thus n6 increase cause? Chronic inflammatory diseases. The mechanism of that is what. excess prostaglandin synthesis stimulated by dietary n6. So limiting n6 is beneficial yes. But n3 also helps deplete and replace n6 in cells. On top of that n3 converts to pge3 not pge2 which is less inflammatory than pge2 also they produce resolvins that have potent antiinflammatory capacities.
    RvE1, 18(S)-RvE1, and RvE2 inhibit the Leukotriene B4 receptor 1 which is the receptor for inflammation-promoting PUFA metabolites such as LTB4 and the R stereoisomer of 12-HETE; by inhibiting the action of these pro-inflammatory mediators.

    i can agree with you that omega 3 is also bad in excess thats why our bodies hold so little of it when looking at macro fat ratios. But the little we do hold have biological activity that helps us. Its like a micro nutrient. And if you restrict PUFA in the modern world you will still have a screwed n3 to n6 ratio. Since we already screwed the stuff you are buying at the supermarket with grains etc. The ratio of n3 to n6 that seems beneficial per day is 1:3. And I think most peaters aim for keeping pufa to 2 grams per day. If 0 of that is n3 then in the long run it doesnt matter if you eat low pufa the ratio of your cell membranes will become screwed. But if you eat 1:3 och then which is around 600mg of n3 your cell membranes wont store mostly n6. That amount of n3 is likely not gonna cause the amount of oxidative stress specially if you eat a diet with antioxidants and vitamin E. And in the long run it could be healthy we dont know. But by looking at the evidence that seems to be the case. All studies I’ve seen are using massive doses of n3 to prove its bad. You could take the same concept if zinc and copper was ultimately bad right? But still they negate each other so its better to have some copper and some zinc because 0 is not possible if they exist in all foods. But what if copper was in the majority of foods? Then you would have to eat some zinc foods to compensate for that. Maybe its a bad example but you get my point. The studies Ive seen slandering omega 3 have used massive doses of it.
     
  13. postman

    postman Member

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    If you eat neither omega 3 or omega 6 your body will make omega 9 and this omega 9 will replace both omega 3 and 6 in the cell. If you have an animal being fed a PUFA deficient diet and give them omega 3, inflammation will increase.
     
  14. OP
    Kingpinguin

    Kingpinguin Member

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    That i already know. Is there any knowledge of the benefit of mead acid.

    Do you eat 0 n6 everyday? Just 0,1% pufa of your diet is needed to normalize and stop mead acid synthesis.
    People with cystic fibrosis display characteristic abnormalities in the levels and metabolism of pufa. The most common are decreases in docosahexanoate and increase in mead acid.
     
  15. Ras

    Ras Member

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    1 Corinthians 15
    39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
     
  16. postman

    postman Member

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    That's incorrect, if you keep your pufa intake at a couple of grams per day, Ray says 4g, you will have plenty of mead acid. I vaguely remember reading some study, I can't remember the title but it basically measured how much PUFA you needed to eat to stop mead acid synthesis and I think it was something upwards of 8 or 10 grams or something like that. Mead acid synthesis works on a gradient.
     
  17. Gadsie

    Gadsie Member

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    PUFA, Birds, and Genetics

    have you read this? It’s pretty interesting.

    where did you get the 0.1% from? The only study I could find about it mentioned 0.5%.

    PUFA deficiency was actually more effective for lowering inflammation than omega 3, with omega-6 being the worst like you said. I will look for the study later today.
     
  18. milkboi

    milkboi Member

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    He's bald tho, his metabolism can't be that on point..
     
  19. Rafael Lao Wai

    Rafael Lao Wai Member

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    lol
    Stearic acid can exclude linoleic acid from cell "membranes" too and it isn't immunosupressive like omega- 3's.

    The fact that birds have higher body temperatures indicates that they have more uncoupling going on, right? Uncoupling can help burn off PUFA.
     
  20. Gadsie

    Gadsie Member

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    EFA deficiency was also more effective than (n-3) fatty acid supplementation in inhibiting the influx of polymorphonuclear neutrophils in response to zymosan. The effect of the two diets on the in vivo generation of leukotriene(LT)B also differed markedly. EFA deficiency completely inhibited the synthesis of LTB. Dietary (n-3) fatty acid supplementation, in contrast, reduced the production of LTB4 by only 50%. With (n-3) fatty acid supplementation LTB5 was produced. The more modest effect of (n-3) fatty acid supplementation in decreasing LTB4 generation was not due to blockade of the cyclooxygenase pathway. EFA deficiency, but not (n-3) fatty acid supplementation, was associated with the decreased synthesis of thromboxane

    In summary, the anti-inflammatory effect of EFA deficiency was more marked that that of dietary (n-3) fatty acid supplementation in acute inflammation. This difference in anti-inflammatory potential appeared to be due to either the greater effect of EFA deficiency in decreasing levels of resident peritoneal macrophages or in suppressing the in vivo generation of LTB4.

    Manipulation of the acute inflammatory response by dietary polyunsaturated fatty acid modulation. - PubMed - NCBI
     
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