Labs/A Mysterious Problem

Discussion in 'Blood Work, Labs' started by Kyle Bigman, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    Hi all, I was wondering if you could help me, because no doctors have so far been successful.

    My abnormal labs are 1) persistently elevated bilirubin – pretty much slightly elevated in every single test I take, 2) low ceruloplasmin (0.19 g/L/), normal: 0.20-0.50 g/ L); and 3) a positive ANA test (1:80, so borderline), which read as fine densely speckled pattern.

    My GP diagnosed me with Gilbert's syndrome because of the bilirubin elevations.

    My symptoms: Since joining the Peat forum I have been trying to discover what is causing a host of mysterious symptoms. I have a lot of autoimmune type symptoms, from acne, joint pain, and mouth ulcers when stressed, but I also have had other symptoms like extreme sensitivity to cold, fatigue and depression, and a recurring pain and bloatedness in my upper right abdominal quadrant area that typically worsens upon stress. I also have yellowish skin, eczema, and dandruff and hair loss. I experienced some bad twitching issues upon stress last year, along with weird symptoms that seemed neurological in nature. I was taking finasteride so I blamed that.

    At first I thought this was due to a liver/gallbladder issue but no doctor has found anything wrong with those organs yet. Then, I thought it was autoimmune of some kind, or perhaps related to vitamin A toxicity. Now, I am wondering whether I have some kind of copper metabolism malfunction. But basically I think all of this is a liver problem. Just not sure how to go about addressing it.

    Thanks for the help and all the advice you have given me through the forum, it is much appreciated.
     

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  2. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    You mention you suspect VA toxicity, have you kept up with the big VA toxicity thread here? A lot of your symptoms sound like may be improved by following Grant's protocol, it's worth a shot at least.
     
  3. OP
    Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    I have read through that and tried a low-vitamin A diet and it helped, but now I am still experiencing problems. I am trying to act based on the labs, but so far have not been able to understand the connection between low Ceruloplasmin and vitamin A (one study suggested that vitamin-a deficiency results in increased ceruloplasmin, so maybe it is possible that I have vitamin a toxicity still).
     
  4. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Gotcha.

    There is a lot of inter-dependencies for sure.

    B2, Iron, Sunlight, VA, VD, VE, VK, Ceruloplasmin... I think they're all connected based upon what some guys were saying there. How much sunlight do you get? How long do you sit in front of blue light? How much B2 do you get? Just some questions. I don't have all the answers of course though.
     
  5. OP
    Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    Yeah that is the connection I am confused about. I probably don't get a lot of sunlight and am exposed to lots of blue light. I have been supplementing with B vitamins recently more.

    Copper and Vitamin A have a tendency to produce similar symptoms both in excess and in deficiency. So it is is really tricky to determine where to begin addressing the issue. I recently started supplementing zinc as an experiment to see if that improves my symptoms (assuming I was copper-toxic), but we'll see where this leads.
     
  6. Orion

    Orion Member

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    Have you taken accutane in the past, or used RetinA on your skin? What was your low A diet staples and for how long? Getting VA down can take a long time even on a strict zero VA diet. Water fasting it quick way to get A out too.

    I suspect increased vitamin A may be hampering with the UDP enzyme, which is involved in Gilberts and retinoid metabolism.
     
  7. OP
    Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    Very little retinA on skin. Maybe just a tiny bit from some skin cream. no accutane. I have been eating basically meat, rice, with vegetables. I never really supplemented with Vitamin A, only ate natural foods, so it was always difficult to understand how I would have even become toxic in it. That is why I began to suspect some kind of copper/vitamin A metabolic problem, maybe a genetic defect.
     
  8. meatbag

    meatbag Member

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    do eat carrot salad/mushrooms regularly?
     
  9. OP
    Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    yes, both regularly. but I am stopping the mushroom consumption due to its copper content.
     
  10. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    I prefer maple syrup for B2 personally. I don't like the taste of mushrooms, at least the amount required to get the B2 I need.
     
  11. Orion

    Orion Member

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    Age is a big factor, year after year it builds up. Vitamin A is in about 99.99% of food, even beef(very small amounts), rice is part of the .01% :)

    Sweet potato for example:
    Vitamin A 15740.00IU 315%RDA
    Vitamin A, RAE 787.00 mcg
    Carotene, alpha 0.00 mcg
    Carotene, beta 9444.00 mcg
    Cryptoxanthin, beta 0.00 mcg
    Lutein + zeaxanthin 0.00 mcg
    Lycopene 0.00 mcg
     
  12. Douglas Ek

    Douglas Ek Member

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    Actually vitamin A would help increase ceruloplasmin. The liver makes ceruloplasmin and its synthesis is dependent on retinol. Could also be copper. Copper would cause iron dysregulation. Symptoms of low copper are joint pain, fatigue and cold hands and feet (low thyroid). Would investigate that further. Ceruloplasmin is very important.
     
  13. Gone Peating

    Gone Peating Member

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    What problems does Accutane cause people typically? Inability to handle Vitamin A properly?
     
  14. Orion

    Orion Member

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    Accutane is active vitamin A retinoic acid, and given in big doses during prescription for acne or used in chemotherapy. So it gives all the symptoms of being on chemo and hypervitaminosis, and since the body stores it in liver and fat the symptoms are very long lasting.

    Too much VA in the diet causing accumulation over the years is like being on chemo or accutane. The inability to handle vitamin A is likely due to not be able to excrete the excess VA quickly enough, eventually a tipping point is hit, and then one or many of; cancer, gilberts, acne, eczema, asthma, CFS, hypothyroid, UC/IBS/Crohns, Parkinson, Alzheimer, heart disease, etc... gets started up, depends on your body chemistry/

    Mega thread here: Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity
     
  15. OP
    Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    Is there any reason why I would have low Ceruloplasmin and high free serum copper (i.e. unbound toxic copper) that is not a Wilson's disease scenario? Is it possible that vitamin A has caused these imbalances? My bilirubin was slightly elevated but it was direct, conjugated version that is elevated. Typically in the past I have had un-conjugated raised bilirubin levels, which is why they diagnosed me with Gilberts.
     
  16. Douglas Ek

    Douglas Ek Member

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    Vitamin A is needed for high ceruloplasmin so I think opposite. High free copper is caused by a lack of retinol.
     
  17. Gone Peating

    Gone Peating Member

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    Besides avoiding Vitamin A, what should someone who used to take Accutane or high dose vitamin A do? I took accutane when i was 16 for about 4 months. During the time my joints ached when i worked out and my libido decreased
     
  18. Douglas Ek

    Douglas Ek Member

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    Have you tested your vitamin D?
     
  19. Gone Peating

    Gone Peating Member

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    It was 40
     
  20. Orion

    Orion Member

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    I took accutane for 2 rounds 10yrs apart, right now eating a very low to zero vitamin A diet is helping immensely. I am close to 5 months VA free, but hoping to make a real judgement at 1 year whether I fully endorse this. Going low A is very simple, and easy to test, and doesn't appear to be detrimental, lots of anecdotal reports are starting to come around, its a relatively new theory. What are your post accutane symptoms?
     
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