Interview With Ray Peat On Government, Libertarianism, And Social Class

[keith]

That is a false, overly simplified perspective. Have you read any pro-american foreign policy books as well as your chomsky fluff? Please get back to me if you do.

Sadam had the 4th largest military in the world prior to the Gulf War. The 4th largest. And he was posed on his southern border prepping an invasion into Saudi Arabia, a semi-western propped govt with ZERO MILITARY ABILITY. They were pleading our state dept to intervene, as their only option was to hire 70,000 security personall as mercenaries (which are reliably less effective than true soldiers). They had almost no armor to speak of, and no airforce, with a handful of anti-air batteries. Israel was ready to send help because the geopolitical reprecussions of a Sadam Hussein takeover of saudi arabia would have been disaterous. It would also be leaving him in the hands of a MAJORITY of the worlds oil supply. Over 50%!!! How you could stand by as that happened?? Noam Chomskey says he would, and that is certified 100% idiotic. Sorry, but the invasion was esstential, and Israel and Saudi Arabia pleaded for us to intervene, and we knew we needed to. And despite all of these un-educated leftists who despise "hate and war" we through our airforce and armor straight at Sadam's military and we won a decisive victory in 4 days, with minimal casualties on our side and zero civillian casualties. We were the only power capable of doing that. What was your problem with desert storm again?

I don't agree in intervention in syria unless it is to fight ISIS.

I'm glad you are here to school us on the benefits of hate and war. What's wonderful world it would be if we just had more of that. How pragmatic!

 

[sladerunner69]

Trump has said lots of things that lots of people consider ridiculous. If you don't, that's fine, but doesn't disprove my point, which is just that a leader saying ridiculous things, even insane things, isn't justification for mass murder.

I'm not sure who you are arguing against with the rest of what you wrote. I never claimed to be a liberal or claimed that all violence is unjustified. I pointed to a specific example that was quite clearly unjustified. There are many more.

In the first desert storm the United States dropped depleted uranium munitions all over Iraq, poisoning agricultural land and water throughout the country. The U.S. also destroyed large parts of the infrastructure of Iraq, including water treatment plants, roads, bridges, etc. The war was followed by vicious sanctions which severely restricted medicines and medical equipment, and destroyed the Iraqi economy. I shutter to think this is a model of benevolence, and I highly doubt it is taught as such anywhere but the U.S. and possibly our allies in the war, who would likewise have an interest in maintaining that illusion.

The plenty of people who think "the things trump says are ridiculous" know very little about what he says and often cannot point to any specific examples or quotes. They then deflect the question by pointing to mainstream belief that trump is ridiculous and loves war mongering and hate etc.... which is exactly what you did. Can at least give an example?

I am arguing with you, as all of what I wrote is in support of my position.

Depleted uranium munition were a problem in a select few areas of the engagement, which occured mostly in 1 famous tank battle. 99% of the munitions used were napalm bombs which are not depleted uranium, so this myth that DU is scattered across the countryside just doesn't hold water. There are egineers paid millions to consider these envioronmental consequences of military intervention. The infrastructure that was damages as result of a necessary conflict was rebuilt and repaid- to the tune of trillions. The iraqis have more infrastructure now more that ever but they don't have the society or leadership or the morale to progress. Much of that has to do with the second gulf war occupation which I am furvently opposed to.

 

[sladerunner69]

I'm glad you are here to school us on the benefits of hate and war. What's wonderful world it would be if we just had more of that. How pragmatic!

Classic example of leftist negligence. War=hate=evil=always

While war often IS unnecessary and terrible, it just as often serves a purpose. WW1 and WW2, were for example, probably avoidable. But they did teach invaluable lessons to humanity.

Nowadays, however, we seem to be making the opposite mistake. Our nation is too hesitate to take up arms in the name of good...

 

[keith]

The plenty of people who think "the things trump says are ridiculous" know very little about what he says and often cannot point to any specific examples or quotes. They then deflect the question by pointing to mainstream belief that trump is ridiculous and loves war mongering and hate etc.... which is exactly what you did. Can at least give an example?

I am arguing with you, as all of what I wrote is in support of my position.

Depleted uranium munition were a problem in a select few areas of the engagement, which occured mostly in 1 famous tank battle. 99% of the munitions used were napalm bombs which are not depleted uranium, so this myth that DU is scattered across the countryside just doesn't hold water. There are egineers paid millions to consider these envioronmental consequences of military intervention. The infrastructure that was damages as result of a necessary conflict was rebuilt and repaid- to the tune of trillions. The iraqis have more infrastructure now more that ever but they don't have the society or leadership or the morale to progress. Much of that has to do with the second gulf war occupation which I am furvently opposed to.

Whether what Trumpmsayd is ridiculous depends on your perpsective, of course, and your is obviously different from mine, but I find it ridiculous when he says that he is able to grab women's ******* and get away with it because he is famous, or when he says that refugees are terrorists, or when he says global warming is a Chinese hoax while at the same time in Scotland he is arguing that he need to build a wall to protect his golf course from rising sea levels caused by global warming. There are so many more examples, but you may not find them as ridiculous as I do. That's fine, but again, the question is what gives America the right to make that determination about another country's leader? We would not accept another country making that determination about our leaders. There is a lot of data out there showing DU munitions were much more widespread than you suggest. Neither of us has enough first hand knowledge to say which is right, but you still haven't answered my question. What right do we have to their oil that justifies our invasion?

 

[keith]

Classic example of leftist negligence. War=hate=evil=always

While war often IS unnecessary and terrible, it just as often serves a purpose. WW1 and WW2, were for example, probably avoidable. But they did teach invaluable lessons to humanity.

Nowadays, however, we seem to be making the opposite mistake. Our nation is too hesitate to take up arms in the name of good...

You are just making blanket unsupported statements of nonsense. George Orwell frequently described himself as a socialist, and volunteered to fight against the fascists in the Spanish civil war. Chamberlain was a Conservative who infamously chose to appease the Nazis.

 

[Queequeg]

yes but who is Ragnar going to go after tonight?

 

[haidut]

In the interview, Ray brought one (of many) interesting point. He said that MLK was killed as soon as he suggested that class struggle has replaced racial struggle as his main goal. That got me interested and after a few searches I found this piece in the HuffPost that largely makes the same point. It seems that MLK was getting ready to start a large scale revolution inside the USA and apparently that was the last drop for the powerful people we was a mere annoyance to with his civil rights movement. I know HuffPost is not exactly the pinnacle of journalism, but very few sources talk about the class struggle message of MLK and this was one of the best summaries I found that make a connection between his assassination and the class struggle he was getting ready to launch.
Why Martin Luther King Had to Die | The Huffington Post

 

[sladerunner69]

Whether what Trumpmsayd is ridiculous depends on your perpsective, of course, and your is obviously different from mine, but I find it ridiculous when he says that he is able to grab women's ******* and get away with it because he is famous, or when he says that refugees are terrorists, or when he says global warming is a Chinese hoax while at the same time in Scotland he is arguing that he need to build a wall to protect his golf course from rising sea levels caused by global warming. There are so many more examples, but you may not find them as ridiculous as I do. That's fine, but again, the question is what gives America the right to make that determination about another country's leader? We would not accept another country making that determination about our leaders. There is a lot of data out there showing DU munitions were much more widespread than you suggest. Neither of us has enough first hand knowledge to say which is right, but you still haven't answered my question. What right do we have to their oil that justifies our invasion?

Okay so it sounds like all of the things he said you find ridiculous, are his conservative stances on common political topics.

First of all, what he said about grabbing women's privates, if you listen to the tapes, was clearly a joke and was in the context of "Look at how crazy this is, these women are so attracted to my money and fame that I could literally grab them by their p*ssies and they would love it!" He isn't claiming that he often does that or that he sexually assaults women. Let's be honest here, It is totally normal for rockstars, millionaires, businessmen, poltiicians, to have these kinds of attitude towards prostitutes, golddiggers, floozies etc. Rich/famous men partying like this with women is exceedingly common, and the words he used were clearly a joke meant to break the ice between him and lowly chump gary glitter. Gary would have felt very uncomfortable if Trump didn't break the ice like that, he thought they were in private and it was a clever way to bring them together. Gary is also now suing cnn and abc for taking that tape and using it out of context to slander Trump with sexual assault. The fact the media ran with that bogus take on a tiny story for MONTHS is proof of how biased and corrupt the media is. Why not talk about hillary's uranium deal? Her recorded pedophelia? confirmed voter fraud? Wikileaks? syria? Most of hillary's scandals that never got a second of coverage, and they force fed you this immature garbage about "TRUMP BRAGS ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT OMGOMGOMG" and you ate it up hook line and sinker. Seriously do you actually believe he likes to rape groupies? Do you have a problem with rockstars who do the same thing all time?

And if what you say is that "the president should be a perfect specimen, totally jesus like and extremely nice and polite", then what about Mitt Romney? He was basically jesus, prabably never used a curse word in his life. Unfortunately for him, he was running against a cool black guy. America needs a candidate with an edge. So when we were being threatenned with another atrocious, corrupt, idiotic candidate, who is able to defend every criticism by shouting "First woman president", we needed to bring someone extra captivating in. Yeah, trump is kind of a d*ck, but his politics are perfect and he gets the job done. Everyday americans can respect that and don't care if he makes crass jokes sometimes, most of us do anyways.

Global Warming is mostly a hoax. Ray Peat has mentionned that. Have you ever looked up the science? Yes the temperature is increasing and sea levels are rising- this is a good thing. They may need to build some walls but a few inches of sea levels will increase CO2 in the atmosphere which is depleting at a dangerous pace. The fact that idiotic, childish goverments want to ignore the bulk of science demonstrating that co2 levels are at an all time low, and begin to reduce CO2 levels and tax the sh*t out of them, is proof of how big government corrupts absolutely.



Say no to government polcicies and taxes in general, only authoritarian fools tend to end up in government, and they ruin everything for everyone.

Refugees aren't always terrorists but there is a frightening relationship between islam and terrorism. Have you ever looked up any studies about islam and terrorism? Globally, 90% of terrorists are muslim. According to a Pew Research Center Study, globally, 50% of muslims believe that suicide bombing is "sometimes or often justified". 50%!!!

The Truth About Refugees: Facts every Canadian needs to know

 

[Ahanu]

Sweden? Nope taxes too high with no upwards mobility in business

No sweden man would Change with an american.
And besides, the american health System is realy bad compared to some countries in Europe but maybe you have been told different ;-)

 

[Ahanu]

Sweden? Nope taxes too high with no upwards mobility in business

No sweden man would Change with an american.
And besides, the american health System is realy bad compared to some countries in Europe but maybe you have been told different ;-)

 

[Ahanu]

Sweden? Nope taxes too high with no upwards mobility in business

No sweden man would Change with an american.
And besides, the american health System is realy bad compared to some countries in Europe but maybe you have been told different ;-)

 

[sladerunner69]

No sweden man would Change with an american.
And besides, the american health System is realy bad compared to some countries in Europe but maybe you have been told different ;-)

Yes plenty of swedish men would. Any one with ambition or love of freedom would.

The american system before obamacare wasn't perfect, and left out a lot of the poorest individuals (usually illegal immigrants or crazy people)

But obamacare is not a helpful solution, aside for the very small percentage of low-income earners who now get free healthcare, it has raised costs for everyone, raised taxes, and done nothing as far as tort-law reform is concerned, which was actually the problem with the prior system. We simply need to make it mroe difficult for people to sue for malpractice, the excalating medical costs were liability costs set by insurance companies, and they were mostly absurd.

 

[Makrosky]

I don't even know where to begin to discuss... "pride and honor"..."Irak the 4th largest force in the world"..."poorest individuals = crazy people"... Talking about Obama and Trump (like this has something to do with them) it's so deliriant that... I'll spend my energy into something else :)

 

[keith]

Okay so it sounds like all of the things he said you find ridiculous, are his conservative stances on common political topics.

First of all, what he said about grabbing women's privates, if you listen to the tapes, was clearly a joke and was in the context of "Look at how crazy this is, these women are so attracted to my money and fame that I could literally grab them by their p*ssies and they would love it!" He isn't claiming that he often does that or that he sexually assaults women. Let's be honest here, It is totally normal for rockstars, millionaires, businessmen, poltiicians, to have these kinds of attitude towards prostitutes, golddiggers, floozies etc. Rich/famous men partying like this with women is exceedingly common, and the words he used were clearly a joke meant to break the ice between him and lowly chump gary glitter. Gary would have felt very uncomfortable if Trump didn't break the ice like that, he thought they were in private and it was a clever way to bring them together. Gary is also now suing cnn and abc for taking that tape and using it out of context to slander Trump with sexual assault. The fact the media ran with that bogus take on a tiny story for MONTHS is proof of how biased and corrupt the media is. Why not talk about hillary's uranium deal? Her recorded pedophelia? confirmed voter fraud? Wikileaks? syria? Most of hillary's scandals that never got a second of coverage, and they force fed you this immature garbage about "TRUMP BRAGS ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT OMGOMGOMG" and you ate it up hook line and sinker. Seriously do you actually believe he likes to rape groupies? Do you have a problem with rockstars who do the same thing all time?

And if what you say is that "the president should be a perfect specimen, totally jesus like and extremely nice and polite", then what about Mitt Romney? He was basically jesus, prabably never used a curse word in his life. Unfortunately for him, he was running against a cool black guy. America needs a candidate with an edge. So when we were being threatenned with another atrocious, corrupt, idiotic candidate, who is able to defend every criticism by shouting "First woman president", we needed to bring someone extra captivating in. Yeah, trump is kind of a d*ck, but his politics are perfect and he gets the job done. Everyday americans can respect that and don't care if he makes crass jokes sometimes, most of us do anyways.

Global Warming is mostly a hoax. Ray Peat has mentionned that. Have you ever looked up the science? Yes the temperature is increasing and sea levels are rising- this is a good thing. They may need to build some walls but a few inches of sea levels will increase CO2 in the atmosphere which is depleting at a dangerous pace. The fact that idiotic, childish goverments want to ignore the bulk of science demonstrating that co2 levels are at an all time low, and begin to reduce CO2 levels and tax the sh*t out of them, is proof of how big government corrupts absolutely.



Say no to government polcicies and taxes in general, only authoritarian fools tend to end up in government, and they ruin everything for everyone.

Refugees aren't always terrorists but there is a frightening relationship between islam and terrorism. Have you ever looked up any studies about islam and terrorism? Globally, 90% of terrorists are muslim. According to a Pew Research Center Study, globally, 50% of muslims believe that suicide bombing is "sometimes or often justified". 50%!!!

The Truth About Refugees: Facts every Canadian needs to know

I'm obviously not going to change your mind, but would suggest that if you want to have a point of view based on the facts instead of trying to organize the facts that they support your preconceived point of view, you need to be willing to look at things openly and honestly. You continuously make unsupported seeeping generalizations without considering alternative theories, or you jump on one particular thing that supports what you already think, and ignore all of the other evidence.

You may not realize it, but your views are very authoritarian, Even though you seem to suggest you are anti-authoritarian above. For you, it is ok for rich people and rock stars to sexually assault others, ok for powerful countries to steal oil from weaker countries etc.

Although I disagree with much of what you wrote, and could argue for days about it, I'm not going to debate you point for point because I don't think it will make a difference to you, and So I won't waste my time writing or your time reading. I'm a good deal older than you, and once had similar views to yours. I'm not trying to be patronizing and suggest that as you get older you will see things my way, I am just saying that I know from experience that no one could have changed my mind. I continued to learn and eventually came to different conclusions. Maybe you will too. Whatever the facts may be, we are much more likely to see them if we keep an open mind, constantly challenge our own beliefs, and let the facts dictate the beliefs.

 

[Ahanu]

Yes plenty of swedish men would. Any one with ambition or love of freedom would.

Sorry to disillusion you but USA is not realy the bummer when it comes to quality if living. :
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Quality_of_Living_Survey

 

[Integra]

In the interview, Ray brought one (of many) interesting point. He said that MLK was killed as soon as he suggested that class struggle has replaced racial struggle as his main goal. That got me interested and after a few searches I found this piece in the HuffPost that largely makes the same point. It seems that MLK was getting ready to start a large scale revolution inside the USA and apparently that was the last drop for the powerful people we was a mere annoyance to with his civil rights movement. I know HuffPost is not exactly the pinnacle of journalism, but very few sources talk about the class struggle message of MLK and this was one of the best summaries I found that make a connection between his assassination and the class struggle he was getting ready to launch.
Why Martin Luther King Had to Die | The Huffington Post

Exactly. I was thinking about the same thing. Wasn't also MLK who said that the oppressed should not become the oppressor? It's something that we seem to keep forgetting so we just tip the scale one way or the other in violent revolutions, when nobody wants to evolve the old and integrate the new by changing both.

I'm really not surprised by anything Ray wrote. I kind of assumed those were his views, to be honest.

All I know is that many people, by virtue being born in a certain place on this planet, have not only near-zero political and economic agency, they also have very little or no access to cultural capital. That's why my heart skipped a beat when he mentioned Aaron Swartz and Sci-Hub. I will never forget what it was like having to pirate research articles, print-screen every friggin page from some spammy site... That knowledge, that thing that grows the more you share it (like love) is kept under a lock, preventing people from all over the world who want more and reach out for more... More of what? Money and power? Sure, maybe. But more of being human, in the first place. To learn, grow, discover, explore, enjoy.

What bothers me in this liberal 'global village' of no-class, no-gender, no-this or -that is that it completely disregards the life experiences of all people--including the horrible, evil, power-hungry-and-guilty-for-everything white man (I'm so sorry for all the evil white men who've been imposed on with collective responsibility--it stinks, and it just perpetuates the same dynamic, but from another viewpoint). At any case, we won't have that global multiculti village as long people are not allowed free movement. We have some skewed version of it that disenfranchises precisely those that would benefit most from such a world.

A part of me is an egalitarian socialist--with the neighbor envy--with my desire to be self-righteous--even with my deep-seated disbelief in human nature as being essentially good, as something that MUST be regulated by a social contract, you dirty, evil animals!--with my fear of being outshined by others, so I wanna hit on nails that stand out too much (it's good for society, after all)--but also... with a genuine desire to help others. A part of me identifies with a goal I deem worthy and good for everyone. I get it! (But being the helper creates the helpee, and that's perhaps not always a good thing. It assumes that we know HOW and WHOM to help, and the others by default NEED my kind of help, from YOU. Hehehe...)

A part of me is also a playful (Ayn Randian) individualist--I have a desire for beauty, power, adventure, FUN--it would be so boring without people like me--with my contrariness that stems in part from a never-lived-out desire to say no to figures of authority that pushed me down earlier in life (well, I'll say it now--YOU SUCK, YOU SUCK SO MUCH, BLIND ***holes THAT NEVER SAW ME FOR WHO I AM AND ALL THE THINGS I COULD BECOME)--people like me keep moving things 'forward', whatever that means. (When's enough, though? What should our progress be harmonious with?)

I'm also a bit of a coping fatalist. I've been duped. I got compliments only for doing this, or being like that--a good, good, girl. Be quiet now, and back to the kitchen! AMEN AMEN HALLELUJAH. My male friends didn't have it any better, though--such misery that simply switches from patriarchal to matriarchal models of oppression--but if we just accept it, we might as well enjoy life as it is. Slow down. Have a cup of coffee. Do a shot of heroine. Does it matter? People like me dance with Zorba the Greek on a daily basis--we burn with passion others were never allowed to experience--without us, the world would be less conflicting, but would also lack excitement...

Whoops! I forgot to tell you, I'm also very conservative. I worked hard for my life to pull centuries of tradition, of things being done a certain way (in a good way, dammit!), I honored my parents, I took care of my neighbors--OH HOW HARD I WORKED AND ALL I GOT WAS A LITTLE PRAISE, A LITTLE POWER--and that was enough, but nobody needs me anymore. What I did is gone--there's no one to protect anymore! **** you all for leaving me all alone--for making me feel worthless--yet it was people like me that set up this world of abundance that allowed you to pick your nose and dream up political theories... Without people like me, you'd forget everything that was good about the past, you'd just split the world into good and bad, but you always make me the bad guy, don't you? I'll go to work now, follow structures and rules like the good soldier that I am, I'll get ***t DONE so that you can go and PROTEST against me, how I oppress you!!!! ...


I am not patronizing anyone. I'm not better than anyone. There's probably a fifth type of ***holes like me who tease everybody else.

 

[haidut]

Exactly. I was thinking about the same thing. Wasn't also MLK who said that the oppressed should not become the oppressor? It's something that we seem to keep forgetting so we just tip the scale one way or the other in violent revolutions, when nobody wants to evolve the old and integrate the new by changing both.

I'm really not surprised by anything Ray wrote. I kind of assumed those were his views, to be honest.

All I know is that many people, by virtue being born in a certain place on this planet, have not only near-zero political and economic agency, they also have very little or no access to cultural capital. That's why my heart skipped a beat when he mentioned Aaron Swartz and Sci-Hub. I will never forget what it was like having to pirate research articles, print-screen every friggin page from some spammy site... That knowledge, that thing that grows the more you share it (like love) is kept under a lock, preventing people from all over the world who want more and reach out for more... More of what? Money and power? Sure, maybe. But more of being human, in the first place. To learn, grow, discover, explore, enjoy.

What bothers me in this liberal 'global village' of no-class, no-gender, no-this or -that is that it completely disregards the life experiences of all people--including the horrible, evil, power-hungry-and-guilty-for-everything white man (I'm so sorry for all the evil white men who've been imposed on with collective responsibility--it stinks, and it just perpetuates the same dynamic, but from another viewpoint). At any case, we won't have that global multiculti village as long people are not allowed free movement. We have some skewed version of it that disenfranchises precisely those that would benefit most from such a world.

A part of me is an egalitarian socialist--with the neighbor envy--with my desire to be self-righteous--even with my deep-seated disbelief in human nature as being essentially good, as something that MUST be regulated by a social contract, you dirty, evil animals!--with my fear of being outshined by others, so I wanna hit on nails that stand out too much (it's good for society, after all)--but also... with a genuine desire to help others. A part of me identifies with a goal I deem worthy and good for everyone. I get it! (But being the helper creates the helpee, and that's perhaps not always a good thing. It assumes that we know HOW and WHOM to help, and the others by default NEED my kind of help, from YOU. Hehehe...)

A part of me is also a playful (Ayn Randian) individualist--I have a desire for beauty, power, adventure, FUN--it would be so boring without people like me--with my contrariness that stems in part from a never-lived-out desire to say no to figures of authority that pushed me down earlier in life (well, I'll say it now--YOU SUCK, YOU SUCK SO MUCH, BLIND ***holes THAT NEVER SAW ME FOR WHO I AM AND ALL THE THINGS I COULD BECOME)--people like me keep moving things 'forward', whatever that means. (When's enough, though? What should our progress be harmonious with?)

I'm also a bit of a coping fatalist. I've been duped. I got compliments only for doing this, or being like that--a good, good, girl. Be quiet now, and back to the kitchen! AMEN AMEN HALLELUJAH. My male friends didn't have it any better, though--such misery that simply switches from patriarchal to matriarchal models of oppression--but if we just accept it, we might as well enjoy life as it is. Slow down. Have a cup of coffee. Do a shot of heroine. Does it matter? People like me dance with Zorba the Greek on a daily basis--we burn with passion others were never allowed to experience--without us, the world would be less conflicting, but would also lack excitement...

Whoops! I forgot to tell you, I'm also very conservative. I worked hard for my life to pull centuries of tradition, of things being done a certain way (in a good way, dammit!), I honored my parents, I took care of my neighbors--OH HOW HARD I WORKED AND ALL I GOT WAS A LITTLE PRAISE, A LITTLE POWER--and that was enough, but nobody needs me anymore. What I did is gone--there's no one to protect anymore! **** you all for leaving me all alone--for making me feel worthless--yet it was people like me that set up this world of abundance that allowed you to pick your nose and dream up political theories... Without people like me, you'd forget everything that was good about the past, you'd just split the world into good and bad, but you always make me the bad guy, don't you? I'll go to work now, follow structures and rules like the good soldier that I am, I'll get ***t DONE so that you can go and PROTEST against me, how I oppress you!!!! ...


I am not patronizing anyone. I'm not better than anyone. There's probably a fifth type of ***holes like me who tease everybody else.

I like your style Felt refreshing to read it.
Btw, the communist/socialist powers that be in Eastern Europe and Russia knew very well that socialism can become self-defeating by removing the incentive to work more than a bare minimum. So, being employed was mandatory. You don't work = you go to jail (unless you are sick, in which case you get sent to the hospital). I know this is probably not a good solution either but I feel like in the West socialism if often viewed as a bunch of lazy hippies who do drugs all day and do nothing. Maybe that's what socialism looks like in liberal academia, but socialism (or tyranny if you prefer) that was implemented in Russia and Eastern Europe was pretty hard-core when it came to work. No leeches (from the common people at least). You either work or you go to jail / labor camp. If you are sick and that's why you cannot work then you go get treated so you can get back to work. And of course, you do not get paid more if you work more. So, it was a lot closer to a labor camp than it was to smoking weed and conjuring up liberal political theories.

 

[Integra]

I like your style :) Felt refreshing to read it.
Btw, the communist/socialist powers that be in Eastern Europe and Russia knew very well that socialism can become self-defeating by removing the incentive to work more than a bare minimum. So, being employed was mandatory. You don't work = you go to jail (unless you are sick, in which case you get sent to the hospital). I know this is probably not a good solution either but I feel like in the West socialism if often viewed as a bunch of lazy hippies who do drugs all day and do nothing. Maybe that's what socialism looks like in liberal academia, but socialism (or tyranny if you prefer) that was implemented in Russia and Eastern Europe was pretty hard-core when it came to work. No leeches (from the common people at least). You either work or you go to jail / labor camp. If you are sick and that's why you cannot work then you go get treated so you can get back to work. And of course, you do not get paid more if you work more. So, it was a lot closer to a labor camp than it was to smoking weed and conjuring up liberal political theories.

First, thanks for the style comment :) Working on that.

You're right--I was a bit unfair using the narrow definition of (Western/academic) liberals as a generic category against the other ones, but I definitely wasn't referring to the socialism of political regimes in E.E. or Russia...I say as a cold shiver runs down my spine. Having experienced both, I've been wondering why people would even want to work (if it's not fun or meaningful to the worker) if there was no incentive such as money or status, until I realized that enjoying work for its own sake in the present moment, (if we ignore matters of job security, retirement, etc.) has very little to do with the actual type of work we do--as long as we have a safety net of sorts, exactly the same things I had to hypothetically ignore just to say this, which is why I do like some ideas from [Western] liberalism. I'll leave this train of thought unfinished, though--

More on pleasure and work: I recently read somewhere about basic income being implemented (was it Switzerland?) and some survey respondent (quotable material) said that s/he'd keep working even if they got that basic income thing going. That got me thinking that work could be seen as a human need*, perhaps at least in the future. Wouldn't it be nice if more occupational fluidity becomes the norm along with all this specialization? Sherlock needs a Watson, after all. It'd make more interesting organizations, and I bet it'd be easier to make breakthroughs of all sorts.

*I wanna say "higher" human need, because it's currently a matter of survival, so it's definitely a need.

 

[cdg]

not sure. i haven´t found a quote where he mentions that he drinks espresso. just that in espresso is more Coffein and we sure know he likes that.

Actually, expresso has less caffeine as the coffee is very dark roast which burns most of the caffeine and Ray like his coffee at 45 C I read somewhere as then much of the nutrients are still intact.

 

[DrJ]

Chomsky has definitely become pretty useless lately, but if you read his older writings, he was pretty good at pointing out hypocrisies in US foreign policy. I think it's a valuable skill to learn to identify hypocrisies because it allows you "reasonably operate" if fields you may not know much about, simply by identifying inconsistencies in a philosophy. I helps cultivate a healthy skepticism. And Chomsky's older political writings are a decent way to learn by example.

Also, although I agree that he was pretty authoritarian with his academic work on linguistics, reading about and understanding his ideas for grammars has been very useful for me in other problem solving contexts. I'm a big fan of trying out different models of reasoning about things and seeing how well they work. Using Chomsky's idea of a grammar with production rules and terminal symbols has actually helped me solve several engineering and science problems. In a lot of cases, there are a limited amount of ways to do things (akin to production rules), and there are a limited amount of items that can be "plugged into" variables (akin to terminal symbols). Thinking in this way has helped me scope a problem and understand what was possible overall, and then identify out of all the possibilities what was the best solution.

I don't think there's any harm in trying out his ideas as long as you empirically check the outcomes. It's definitely a pretty amazing result of his grammar work that all programming languages can be ascribed to a position in the "Chomsky Hierarchy" and all programming languages can be reduced to a grammar with production rules. It provides an more general (if abstract) way of thinking about programming languages that some people might find useful when jumping from programming language to programming language.