How Does MDMA Make One High Through Serotonin?

[Area-1255]

It doesn't make sense that "serotonin depletion" is what causes the after-effect of serotonin. The serotonin was stored first, then activated when the drug user took mdma. So, how does your body miss something that was in storage, not activated, in the first place? It doesn't, in fact I wonder if the activity of serotonin in an ecstasy user is responsible for the depression afterward.

In my experience, and based on research, serotonin has effects *concentration dependent*. High amounts of serotonin certainly make you depressed, and unable to experience Joy, Peace, General quality of life. High amounts of serotonin make you feel agitated, anxious, lethargic, and in some cases, psychotic or almost psychotic. You also have this lingering 'devils vengeance' with high serotonin, which is like obsessive desire to 'get back at' others. High serotonin typically means you are getting too much tryptophan in your diet, or using too much SRI crap, like Kanna or perhaps other herbs/spices.
High serotonin also creates bowel issues, diarrhea specifically, by increasing entero-kinetic activity in the bowel. High serotonin also diminishes motivational drive to work-related aspirations/activities. You will find a lack of creativity, zest, appeal by anything or anyone, and a generally colorless world - not like the picture that mainstream media and big pharma portrays.

Low serotonin on the other hand is somewhat opposite, and somewhat the same. As I've said in my multiple writings, the main symptom of low serotonin is constipation, and eleuthero root extract brought me there one time - it was not pleasant. I was also delirious, and had hyperarousal to lights/sounds. Although that part was probably the adrenaline-action of the extract.
Low-serotonin in relation to behavior: simply put, you are a workaholic, perfectionist, have high creativity, strong logic, strong enthusiasm, and take desire in doing what you do best. Negative effects, if you wanna call it that, would be taking your business/work too seriously, and also, some strong male dominance behavior.

That's how I would describe the two, additionally, serotonin affects INTERESTS. With more (but not high or excess) serotonin your activities will be more casual, more subtle, stuff like shopping, playing video games, observing environments/sight-seeing, exploring perhaps etc. With low serotonin, your activities are more specific, and that can include traveling to specific countries, rather than 'just anywhere', and it can include the 'wanting' of new / foreign foods, and trying new things in general. This is consistent with research in that serotonin affects behavioral flexibility and exploratory behavior in humans and rats.

 

[Such_Saturation]

lol MDMA makes serotonin disappear from your brain when you feel the effect. Can we stop forgetting this. The depression is from desensitization to dopamine and sensitization to serotonin.

 

[Area-1255]

lol MDMA makes serotonin disappear from your brain when you feel the effect. Can we stop forgetting this. The depression is from desensitization to dopamine and sensitization to serotonin.

No, it stimulates the serotoninergic neurons and has particular effects on 5-HT2A-receptors (the hallucinogen receptor) as a direct agonist as well [1] [2] [3].
Then...

• https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2871581
  
• Effect of the R(-) and S(+) isomers of MDA and MDMA on phosphatidyl inositol turnover in cultured cells expressing 5-HT2A or 5-HT2C receptors. - PubMed - NCBI
  
• 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, "Ecstasy") induces fenfluramine-like proliferative actions on human cardiac valvular interstitial cells in... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Such_Saturation]

Except when you blend the brain and analyze it there's no serotonin in it.

 

[Area-1255]

Except when you blend the brain and analyze it there's no serotonin in it.

Nothing depletes the brain completely of serotonin, so that's an obvious lie. Not even the powerful TPH inhibitors P-chlorophenylalanine completely deplete it. There's always some 10-20% of serotonin left in the brain that the brain keeps there to 'reserve' in cases like this, and the brain often upregulates receptors to compensate for the lack of serotonin in order to ration what IS left.
Compensatory mechanisms my friend, and my guess is you have no research to back up what YOU are saying. If you do, then go ahead and show it.

• The effects of alaproclate and p-chlorophenylalanine on cued navigation performance in rats. - PubMed - NCBI
  
• p-chlorophenylalanine-induced serotonin depletion: reduction in exploratory locomotion but no obvious sensory-motor deficits. - PubMed - NCBI
  
• Effects of serotonin depletion by p-chlorophenylalanine, p-chloroamphetamine or 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine on central dopaminergic neurons: focus on t... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Such_Saturation]

Nothing depletes the brain completely of serotonin, so that's an obvious lie. Not even the powerful TPH inhibitors P-chlorophenylalanine completely deplete it. There's always some 10-20% of serotonin left in the brain that the brain keeps there to 'reserve' in cases like this, and the brain often upregulates receptors to compensate for the lack of serotonin in order to ration what IS left.
Compensatory mechanisms my friend, and my guess is you have no research to back up what YOU are saying. If you do, then go ahead and show it.

• The effects of alaproclate and p-chlorophenylalanine on cued navigation performance in rats. - PubMed - NCBI
  
• p-chlorophenylalanine-induced serotonin depletion: reduction in exploratory locomotion but no obvious sensory-motor deficits. - PubMed - NCBI
  
• Effects of serotonin depletion by p-chlorophenylalanine, p-chloroamphetamine or 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine on central dopaminergic neurons: focus on t... - PubMed - NCBI

I'm not saying ZERO it's a figure of speech jesus. The study is either in this thread or in the forum.

 

[Area-1255]

I'm not saying ZERO it's a figure of speech jesus. The study is either in this thread or in the forum.

...And it's still not the mechanism by which MDMA causes its euphoric/social effects. It wouldn't make sense for that to be the case. Social Anxiety is caused by too much serotonin, that is True, but MDMA activates dopamine and serotonin, which, under normal circumstances would confer opposing effects, but it only activates (at least directly) the serotonin receptors I've explained. If it doesn't touch the 5-HT4 and 5-HT7 receptors, then those being predominantly anti-social, and yet it activates both 1A and 2A (pro-social serotonin receptors), then that coupled with the dopamine agonism of Ecstasy would explain the effects.

When an individual has high serotonin, the 5-HT1A autoreceptors which tell the brain to reduce serotonin release become desensitized, thus, serotonin is now flowing consistently at all of the anti-social serotonin receptors. Of which 5-HT1B/4A/7A constitute the main pro-anxiety effects of serotonin.

 

[conhnore]

and when serotonin is high, information isn't assimilated properly..its like you'll be watching a video or listening to something and rather than actually listening to the concepts, thinking about it, assimilating it...its more just hearing the sounds and having them massage you...but nothing valuable happens and you'll forget it all or basically have not even heard it.

thank you for the insight

 

[Luann]

The depression is from desensitization to dopamine and sensitization to serotonin.

That's what I was trying to understand

 

[FredSonoma]

Most people and society, because of the diet and lifestyle since they were young, and the fact just about everyone is perpetually constipated and has irritating foods in their intestine...they think 'feeling good' is like when you eat a large meal and get lazy and can laze around on the couch...its more a sedation escape feeling. Almost no one actually knows what its like to feel good in a doped, healhy, clean intestine, fully nourished, capable way. Once you've tasted that, anything that provokes serotonin and makes you wanna lay down and receive massage or whatever is offensive, because you realize its just weakening.

Hey pboy, not sure if you are still round, but a lot of things in your entire post rang true with me. What do you think leads to this healthy, clean intestine feeling? Other than the obvious like low-PUFA and low-iron. I don't think I can even imagine what this feels like lol.

 

[Area-1255]

That's what I was trying to understand

Maybe you should read my post before you just gulp down a random users insights.

 

[Tarmander]

What was the pathway that made people combative and want to "get back at others," again?

 

[What-a-Riot]

Maybe you should read my post before you just gulp down a random users insights.

Because you're not a random user?

 

[Such_Saturation]

He's a random Receptor Expert

 

[Pointless]

In my experience, and based on research, serotonin has effects *concentration dependent*. High amounts of serotonin certainly make you depressed, and unable to experience Joy, Peace, General quality of life. High amounts of serotonin make you feel agitated, anxious, lethargic, and in some cases, psychotic or almost psychotic. You also have this lingering 'devils vengeance' with high serotonin, which is like obsessive desire to 'get back at' others. High serotonin typically means you are getting too much tryptophan in your diet, or using too much SRI crap, like Kanna or perhaps other herbs/spices.
High serotonin also creates bowel issues, diarrhea specifically, by increasing entero-kinetic activity in the bowel. High serotonin also diminishes motivational drive to work-related aspirations/activities. You will find a lack of creativity, zest, appeal by anything or anyone, and a generally colorless world - not like the picture that mainstream media and big pharma portrays.

Low serotonin on the other hand is somewhat opposite, and somewhat the same. As I've said in my multiple writings, the main symptom of low serotonin is constipation, and eleuthero root extract brought me there one time - it was not pleasant. I was also delirious, and had hyperarousal to lights/sounds. Although that part was probably the adrenaline-action of the extract.
Low-serotonin in relation to behavior: simply put, you are a workaholic, perfectionist, have high creativity, strong logic, strong enthusiasm, and take desire in doing what you do best. Negative effects, if you wanna call it that, would be taking your business/work too seriously, and also, some strong male dominance behavior.

That's how I would describe the two, additionally, serotonin affects INTERESTS. With more (but not high or excess) serotonin your activities will be more casual, more subtle, stuff like shopping, playing video games, observing environments/sight-seeing, exploring perhaps etc. With low serotonin, your activities are more specific, and that can include traveling to specific countries, rather than 'just anywhere', and it can include the 'wanting' of new / foreign foods, and trying new things in general. This is consistent with research in that serotonin affects behavioral flexibility and exploratory behavior in humans and rats.

It's gonna take more than this to convince us that we can have too little serotonin. You took a supplement. It gave you anxiety. Even though you know the supplement can raise adrenaline, you blame serotonin being "too low." This is not going to fly far here.

Researchers associate the effects of SSRI's with serotonin's effects on the brain, but they also affect dopamine and adrenaline, which is responsible for their very minor anti-depressant effect in some people. It's the same thing here. A drug or supplement might be associated with higher or lower serotonin, but that doesn't mean that changing serotonin is what is causing its effects, good or bad.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well serotonin can release GABA in specific parts of the brain...

 

[Area-1255]

Because you're not a random user?

W.A.R lmao, btw, msg'd you back and sent that sample.

Area-1255's is right on da money, that describe me to a tee how i felt without serotonin plus he recommended me some neat-o sups that really helped me last week. you guys wanna learn stuff, ask area!

Glad it's working out for you m8!

Idk man @Such_Saturation has no experience whatsoever nee nada. :/

I wouldn't go that far...

 

[Area-1255]

Researchers associate the effects of SSRI's with serotonin's effects on the brain, but they also affect dopamine and adrenaline, which is responsible for their very minor anti-depressant effect in some people. It's the same thing here. A drug or supplement might be associated with higher or lower serotonin, but that doesn't mean that changing serotonin is what is causing its effects, good or bad.

SSRI's affect dopamine and noradrenaline because they enhance serotonin. Some effects may be related to sigma-1/sigma-2 modulation.

 

[Area-1255]

Even though you know the supplement can raise adrenaline, you blame serotonin being "too low." This is not going to fly far here.

Sure it will.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2007 Oct 8;114(1):38-43. Epub 2007 Aug 3.
Effect of Acanthopanax senticosus on 5-hydroxytryptamine synthesis and tryptophan hydroxylase expression in the dorsal raphe of exercised rats.
Rhim YT1, Kim H, Yoon SJ, Kim SS, Chang HK, Lee TH, Lee HH, Shin MC, Shin MS, Kim CJ.
Author information

Abstract
Acanthopanax senticosus Harms (AS) is classified into the family of Araliaceae. The plant has been used as an analeptic aid, which improves weakened physical status and strength. Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine, 5-HT) is an important neurotransmitter and tryptophan hydroxylase (TPH) catalyzes the rate-f the raphe nuclei. These are associated with "central fatigue hypotheses" in the brain. In the present study, the effects of Acanthopanax senticosus on the time to exhaustion by treadmill exercise and on 5-HT synthesis and TPH expression in the dorsal raphe were investigated by immunohistochemistry. In the present results, Acanthopanax senticosus increased the time to exhaustion by treadmill running and it suppressed the exercise-induced increase of 5-HT synthesis and TPH expression. Acanthopanax senticosus was effective as caffeine for increasing the exhaustion time in treadmill running and for reducing the exercise-induced increase of 5-HT synthesis and TPH expression in the dorsal raphe. The present study shows that Acanthopanax senticosus reduces fatigue during exercise by the inhibition of exercise-induced 5-HT synthesis and TPH expression in the dorsal raphe.

PMID:

17826016

DOI:

10.1016/j.jep.2007.07.030

 

[Tarmander]

W.A.R lmao, btw, msg'd you back and sent that sample.


Glad it's working out for you m8!


I wouldn't go that far...

Are these like...private messages....or am I just not seeing these posts your quoting?