Generative Energy # 9: A Bioenergetic View Of Weight Loss (with Haidut)

[aguilaroja]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

Any term. Both of them are synthetic estrogens. Seriously, why would anyone consider taking something known to be a liver carcinogen (as all estrogens are)? Again, do not get fooled by the fact that clomid and tamofixen seem to act like anti-estrogens in some tissues. Their systemic effects is still highly estrogenic, so even if they raise testosterone in a male that extra testosterone will likely convert into estrogen anyways. Women taking clomid or tamoxifen have 11 times higher chance of endometrial cancer. How's that for a supposedly anti-estrogenic drug?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1672563
"...However, paradoxically, tamoxifen alone enhanced the appearance of gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase positive foci in diethylnitrosamine-initiated livers indicating that it is a promoter of hepatocarcinogenesis."

Yes, it has been difficult to speak with even those with life science doctoral degrees, and persons undergoing treatment, about a deeper view of tamoxifen and so-called "estrogen antagonist" "selective estrogen-receptor modulators". It appears that it is somewhat safer to be using tamoxifen in the mouse liver, but that is little comfort for other species.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23907062
Evaluation of the genotoxicity of tamoxifen in the liver and kidney of F344 gpt delta transgenic rat in 3-week and 13-week repeated dose studies.
Kawamura Y1, Hayashi H, Kurata Y, Hiratsuka K, Masumura K, Nohmi T.
Toxicology. 2013 Oct 4;312:56-62. doi: 10.1016/j.tox.2013.07.014.

"...we treated female F344 gpt delta rats with tamoxifen (TAM) at 20 and 40mg/kg....TAM administration significantly increased gpt (point mutations) and Spi(-) (deletions) mutant frequencies (MFs) in the liver, the target organ of carcinogenesis; MFs were higher after treatment for 13 weeks than after treatment for 3 weeks. The MFs in the kidney did not increase in any of the TAM treatment groups."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25123088
Toxicology. 2014 Nov 5;325:12-20. doi: 10.1016/j.tox.2014.08.004.
Genotoxic, epigenetic, and transcriptomic effects of tamoxifen in mouse liver.
de Conti A1, Tryndyak V1, Churchwell MI1, Melnyk S2, Latendresse JR3, Muskhelishvili L3, Beland FA1, Pogribny IP4
"...there is evidence that tamoxifen is hepatocarcinogenic in rats, but not in mice. Additionally, it has been reported that tamoxifen may cause non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) in humans and experimental animals. Additionally, it has been reported that tamoxifen may cause non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) in humans and experimental animals."
"The results of the present study demonstrate that the resistance of mice to tamoxifen-induced liver carcinogenesis may be associated with its ability to induce genotoxic alterations only without affecting the cellular epigenome and an inability of tamoxifen to induce the development of NAFLD."

 

[lexis]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

Did Haidut say that Vitamin k is an antibiotic or work like an antibiotic?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 106149 I think the work mindset in Japan is overstated/a misrepresentation of the culture, I know several Americans who have lived there and they say the same

Exactly. Gross generalizations. People are different just a few miles away from each other, never mind a whole country being all the same. The city I grew up in, the people are very different from people who live only about 10 miles away. And it's not a race or ethnicity thing, its a class/culture thing because the race is the same.

Living on the west coast of the US now, where the most Asian Americans are, I can tell you that not all Asian men are feminine celibate wimps. Go to any gym on the west coast and you'll see masculine men of the Asian ethnicity. Outside of gyms you can be in any setting and find rowdy Asian guys just like anyone else.

The feminine Japanese men people are talking about here is akin to the white American "Emo" guys.

 

[Spokey]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 105694

post 105649 The major rice producing areas of Japan, also happen to have some of the lowest life expectancies for that country before and after WWII. Read into that what you will.

Source?

体にいい食べ物はなぜコロコロと変わるのか　畑中三応子

"Why does 'healthy food' change so frequently?" by Minoko Hatanaka

But I don't know where the data is sourced from, some national statistics repository I think.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

Except emos are into Japan, and "feminine Japanese males" are not into emos...

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 107010 Except emos are into Japan, and "feminine Japanese males" are not into emos...

I'm afraid this is an Americanism that you are wrong about S_S. I went to high school with many Emo's and the only thing they knew about Japan is Pokemon and Sushi. Feminine males can be seen in any country/culture and what you call the "type" is irrelevant.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 107019

post 107010 Except emos are into Japan, and "feminine Japanese males" are not into emos...

I'm afraid this is an Americanism that you are wrong about S_S. I went to high school with many Emo's and the only thing they knew about Japan is Pokemon and Sushi. Feminine males can be seen in any country/culture and what you call the "type" is irrelevant.

What about the hairstyle, did Japanese cartoonists invent it or did we invent it?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 107021 What about the hairstyle, did Japanese cartoonists invent it or did we invent it?

We...?

Caugh cha. I knew you were American.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

I haven't cut my hair for about thirteen years

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

Does buzzing the sides not count?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

I didn't say buzz my hair

 

[SarahBeara]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 106014

post 105556

post 105499 Holy s*** haidut, you really know your stuff. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

Ha, more like I know that I don't know, but thanks anyways. I like doing this, it is much more fun than all my other "hobbies" combined.

Well Haidut, if your willing, could you give me some feedback on my latest post in my log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6584&p=106012#p106012

My log has my history of my health issues and blood tests, but generally I'm a 27 year old male trying to raise Testosterone and lower Estrogen and Prolactin.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could give me any thoughts, suggestions or feedback you might have about my latest bloodwork and my prospective protocol.

I plan to keep getting bloodwork done every couple months until I find a protocol that works, so I will at least be contributing my N=1 experiment data.

Are you a bodybuilder? Why are you taking clomid or tamoxifen? Do you know how estrogenic they are? Peat's website has articles on both. They are both synthetic estrogens with slightly modified function to make them somewhat anti-estrogenic in specific tissues but overall they are still synthetic estrogens. Clomid is highly estrogenic to brain and bones, do not get fooled by studies showing it can increase T. People with MS, a brain condition from high estrogen, have died from taking clomid. Both clomid and tamofixen will fry your liver, as they are both estrogens. Exemestane is probably OK, but not until you figure the issue with prolactin.
High prolactin, in the absense or pituitary issues or hypothyroidism, can be caused by liver and/or kidney issues. Your results show potential issues with both (creatinine and ALT). I would do a full liver panel with ALT, AST, ALP, GGT, PT, and albumin. I would also stop taking whatever drugs you are taking and lower protein intake to no more than 1g/kg daily. Your kidneys need so rest and recover. I am surprised your doctor has not said anything about kidneys and/or liver issues and suggested follow up. I would strongly suggest following up with him/her on these tests.
Finally, since RBC and Hematocrit are also high (probably due to high T) I would do an iron panel just in case. Serum iron, ferritin, iron saturation, transferrin, copper, ceruloplasmin. Liver and kidney issues can both be caused by iron and in some cases even copper.
Just my 2c.

Hi haidut,

Can you refer me to the articles about clomid on ray peat's site as I did a search but can't find them. Or any direct literature that it's harmful in men specifically.

I ask because I have a close friend who's life was turned around by taking clomid (serum estridiol and prolactin were low). He feels like a new man.

He's not into Peat so I don't think I could convince him to come off clomid without something specific to men to show him.

Or if you have a safer alternative I could suggest I would be greatly appreciative.

Thanks!
Sarah

 

[haidut]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 107074

post 106014

post 105556

post 105499 Holy s*** haidut, you really know your stuff. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

Ha, more like I know that I don't know, but thanks anyways. I like doing this, it is much more fun than all my other "hobbies" combined.

Well Haidut, if your willing, could you give me some feedback on my latest post in my log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6584&p=106012#p106012

My log has my history of my health issues and blood tests, but generally I'm a 27 year old male trying to raise Testosterone and lower Estrogen and Prolactin.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could give me any thoughts, suggestions or feedback you might have about my latest bloodwork and my prospective protocol.

I plan to keep getting bloodwork done every couple months until I find a protocol that works, so I will at least be contributing my N=1 experiment data.

Are you a bodybuilder? Why are you taking clomid or tamoxifen? Do you know how estrogenic they are? Peat's website has articles on both. They are both synthetic estrogens with slightly modified function to make them somewhat anti-estrogenic in specific tissues but overall they are still synthetic estrogens. Clomid is highly estrogenic to brain and bones, do not get fooled by studies showing it can increase T. People with MS, a brain condition from high estrogen, have died from taking clomid. Both clomid and tamofixen will fry your liver, as they are both estrogens. Exemestane is probably OK, but not until you figure the issue with prolactin.
High prolactin, in the absense or pituitary issues or hypothyroidism, can be caused by liver and/or kidney issues. Your results show potential issues with both (creatinine and ALT). I would do a full liver panel with ALT, AST, ALP, GGT, PT, and albumin. I would also stop taking whatever drugs you are taking and lower protein intake to no more than 1g/kg daily. Your kidneys need so rest and recover. I am surprised your doctor has not said anything about kidneys and/or liver issues and suggested follow up. I would strongly suggest following up with him/her on these tests.
Finally, since RBC and Hematocrit are also high (probably due to high T) I would do an iron panel just in case. Serum iron, ferritin, iron saturation, transferrin, copper, ceruloplasmin. Liver and kidney issues can both be caused by iron and in some cases even copper.
Just my 2c.

Hi haidut,

Can you refer me to the articles about clomid on ray peat's site as I did a search but can't find them. Or any direct literature that it's harmful in men specifically.

I ask because I have a close friend who's life was turned around by taking clomid (serum estridiol and prolactin were low). He feels like a new man.

He's not into Peat so I don't think I could convince him to come off clomid without something specific to men to show him.

Or if you have a safer alternative I could suggest I would be greatly appreciative.

Thanks!
Sarah

Some links to consider. Studies #3 and #7 below suggest that clomid can turn male organisms into homosexual or transsexual organisms, much like Caitlyn Jenner. Speaking of which, guess what drugs he/she is taking to facilitate this sex change...

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aspir ... ncer.shtml
"...Recently, the public has been led to believe that drugs are being designed to fit certain cellular "receptors." The history of the "COX-2 inhibitors" is instructive, in a perverse way. The structures of DES and other synthetic estrogens were said to relate to "the estrogen receptor." Making these estrogenic molecules more soluble in water made them somewhat anti-estrogenic, leading to products such as Tamoxifen. But some of the molecules in this group were found to be antiinflammatory. The structure of Celecoxib and other "COX-2 inhibitors" is remarkably similar to the "designer estrogens." Considering this, it's a little odd that so few in the U.S. are openly discussing the possibility that estrogen's function is directly related to inflammation, and involves the production of many inflammatory mediators, including COX-2. (See Lerner, et al., 1975; Luo, et al., 2001; Cushman, et al, 2001; Wu, et al., 2000; Herrington, et al., 2001.)"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6144439
"...The antiestrogen, clomiphene citrate ( Merrell -National Laboratories) was administered to female goldfish in order to test the hypothesis that this drug may act on brain monoaminergic mechanisms. Brain monoamine oxidase (MAO) activity and hypothalamic serotonin (5-HT) content were measured fluorometrically after i.p. administration of 0, 5 or 25 micrograms clomiphene citrate/g body wt. Brain MAO activity was significantly inhibited by the high dose of clomiphene citrate, whereas hypothalamic 5-HT content was significantly elevated by both low and high doses of the antiestrogen. These data support the idea that brain monoamines in teleost fish are influenced by estrogen feedback mechanisms which can be blocked by clomiphene citrate."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24115661
"...Perinatal period and adolescence are critical for brain development, which is the biological basis of an individual's sexual orientation and sexual behavior. In this study, animals were divided into two groups and their sexual orientations were observed: one group experienced drug treatments during the perinatal period, and the other group was castrated at puberty. The results showed that estradiol treatment had no effect on mature male offspring's sexual orientations, but 9 days and 14 days of clomiphene citrate treatment significantly increased the chance of homosexuality and effeminized behavior. In addition, the sexual orientation of mature normal male offspring, which were castrated when they were 21 days old,was not significant different from the control animals. These findings suggest that the inhibition of perinatal estrogen activities could suppress individual male-typical responses, enhance female-typical responses and induce homosexual orientations. Moreover, the masculinizing effects of estrogen were more obvious during perinatal period than adolescence."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22999797
"...CONCLUSION(S): The above findings indicate that CC in the presence of estrogen synergistically potentiates more adverse effects in testis, inhibiting expression of upstream steroidogenic enzyme genes and leading to disruption of steroidogenesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17054466
"...CONCLUSIONS: Our study demonstrates for the first time that raloxifene and clomiphene affect the secretion of PRL in postmenopausal women in a similar manner. It is suggested that oestradiol stimulates the secretion of PRL in women by acting through oestrogen receptors."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15272923
"...CONCLUSIONS: These results demonstrate for the first time that in contrast to clomiphene, raloxifene does not exert oestrogenic effects on basal gonadotrophin secretion. Although the antioestrogenic action of these drugs was evident only after pretreatment with E2, both R and Cl stimulated GnRH-induced gonadotrophin secretion in oestrogen-deprived women. It is hypothesized that these two compounds sensitize the pituitary to GnRH through mechanisms not involving the oestrogen receptor complex (nongenomic)."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12600663
"...In order to investigate the participation of estrogen during the period of brain sexual differentiation, male rats were treated with clomiphene citrate in the neonatal phase. Fertility and sexual behavior were assessed during adult life. Sexual maturation, body weight, and wet weight of the testes were unchanged. Although the adult male rats treated with clomiphene in the neonatal phase presented a significant reduction in the frequency of mounts, 90% of these rats were able to mate with normal females, which became pregnant. However, these females exhibited a significantly increased number of pre- and post-implantation losses. When these adult male rats were castrated and received estrogen, 60% presented female sexual behavior (receptive behavior and acceptance of mount). Thus, treatment of pups with clomiphene immediately after birth has a long-term effect on the reproductive physiology and sexual behavior of male rats."

 

[Dan W]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

Here's a transcript courtesy of Jeff M, who always seems to have cool hair regardless of the situation.

I figure this one doesn't need a separate post in the transcripts forum unless it ends up generating a lot of feedback.

---

Today I’m talking with Georgie aka Haidut of raypeatforum.com Georgi is an independent health researcher and the owner of idea labs a small company producing high-quality boutique supplements with the focus of supporting a healthy metabolism today georgi and I will discuss weight loss from a bioenergetic point of view or the interaction between sugars and fats and how they influence cellular respiration. in addition to thanking Gyorgi for talking with me today, I’d like to think my patrons from making this show and all the content I produced possible you like to become a patron you can go to patreon dot com slash Danny Roddy without further ado here’s the show

DR: This is not something I am specifically interested in although it gets such a common question and I feel like its A product of the dumbing down of the nutrition scene and it like a question that’s Phrased often “if you are recommending sugars in a diet, how are you going to lose fat” It’s like everyone knows you have to Go on a low carb diet to lose fat. I thought that would be a good starting place and then from there we can start talking about free fatty acids the hormones we don’t have to to dive too much into Pufa, because obviously we did the whole show in it. I was curious because we Both have a low carb experience and I thought we could tie that into this show. If I play devils advocate and Gyorgi and I ask you how would I lose fat on a high sugar diet what would be your response?

2 minutes and 12 seconds

Gyorgi: So my response would be I will explain the process a little bit and it may sound initially a little counter intuitive. All just say that the latest drugs for combating obesity and diabetes are based on inhibiting the hormones cortisol and adrenaline. And these are the stress hormones and they are involved in increasing the pulse and path of oxidation. So if the mainstream drugs are actually acting in a way opposite of fat oxidation, you know the common perception of “burning fat to lose fat” is probably not medically sound. I want to start with describing if you keep fat intake low and inhibit the excessive liberation of fatty acids, over time your insulin sensitivity will improve and your insulin levels will go down. Insulin levels with cortisol are basically driving the storage of fat. This means that when sugar is ingested stress is low and free fatty acids are low. When we ingest sugar it can be oxidized because the Randle Cycle is not being blocked by excess fat. And this sugar even if you eat a lot of it will not be turned into fat. And by the way even if you a problem oxidizing sugar, the so called de novo fatty acid sysnthesis of sugar is energetically a very expensive process. There have been some human studies in healthy and obese people and they have found that de novo fatty acid synthesis from carbohydrate does not occur until the diet gets over 500 grams of carbs daily. And that is more than twice the amount of carbs than people ingest daily at least in the western world, and People on the Standard American Diet. So even if somebody has a propensity to convert carbs into fat due to a deficiency in lets say vitamin b3 or Biotin. Taking a little bit of those and a little bit of niacinamide can prevent or at least inhibit the excessive conversion of carbohydrates into fat. In summary weight gain especially fat gain is due to high stress hormones, because that results in the liberation of free fatty acids, which in themselves cause insulin resistance all through the Randle Cycle, because they prevent the Oxidation of glucose. And also FREE FATTY ACIDS have found to be direct insulin receptor antagonists. So this means that free fatty acids will make you insulin resistant and also prevent your cells from oxidizing sugar. The FREE FATTY ACIDS will also increase serotonin, especially pufa, serotonin and cortisol, and this will promote the stress state even more. The fatty acid increase serotonin by activating the enzyme TPH tryptophan Hydroxylase which inhibits the synthesis of niacin. And the worse the metabolism gets away from niacin to some excitotoxic by products of Trytophan. Combine the stress metabolism with a high fat diet, which is the typical standard American diet, this means high insulin. Right so fat storage will be high, hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia. On a high sugar low fat moderate protein diet lets say metabolism will be increased due to the sugars effect on thyroid hormone. Proteins effect on thermogenesis, and basically over time the liver will be able to excrete the excess fat. Many drugs currently on the market are actually targeting the enzyme 11 beta hydroxyl steroid dehydroxgenase type 1. This is the enzyme that synthesizes cortisol, and inhibiting that enzyme and effectively lowering cortisol is shown to lead to weight loss regardless of the diet. Whether you eat high sugar, high fat, high protein, etc. Anti Adrenaline drugs like Clonadine have been shown to do the same You know, in other words drugs that lower the stress hormones and thus lipolysis, because Lipolysis is initiated by the stress hormones. Drugs that lower the stress hormones lead to weight loss. And this is fairly well established medical fact, It’s just that the pharma industry has yet to get a drug like that approved but they are hot on the trail. That is the mechanism of action these drugs are acting anti-stress, anti lipolysis, anti oxidation of fat and they invariably lead to weight loss.

6 minutes 19 seconds

DR:You mentioned the randle cycle, and myself coming from a LC background. I think I first read about it from ray, and was completely oblivious to the idea and its not actually a cycle, but it helped me at least understand in the beginning how I had been fooled by the idea that fat oxidation was preferable over glucose. Can you explain a little bit about the randle cycle, and I am still confused why almost no low carb person I have ever read ever mentions it.

6 minutes 53 seconds

G:The glucose fatty acid cycle, it is a metabolic process that involves the competition of glucose and fatty acids for substrate of oxidation. In other words your cells at any given point of time sense the presence of either glucose or fatty acids and they can only process one at a time. I don’t know if the exact ratio is known, but let’s say you have a ratio that favors more fa in the bloodstream versus glucose your cells will oxidize the fatty acids and ignore the glucose, because they can’t oxidize it. That’s what directly leads to hyperglycemia. Your cells just can not process the glucose as long as there is sufficient fatty acid in the blood to prevent the oxidation of glucose, and it has been shown that inhibiting lipolysis lowers the amount of free fatty acids in the blood effectively allows the cells to resume the oxidation of glucose unless you have another problem like deficiency in one of the enzymes of the krebs cycle, or there’s a deficiency in the electron transport chain, but by in large most people lowering the free fatty acids will reverse insulin resistance, the inability to oxidize glucose, and several drugs on the market try to do that but niacinamide has been shown to that and so has aspirin.

8 minutes 10 seconds

DR:The way I see it the Low carb idea is completely divorced from the whole individual, what hormones are going up and down, and I think even paul jamminet, famous from the perfect health diet, I can’t remember the exact quote, but I remember him distinctly saying that he thought the hormones were too complex to write about, and I think that it really encapsulates almost everything wrong with that point of view, it’s just not accounting for how many variables are involved in the idea of supporting oxidative metabolism.

8 minutes 50 seconds

G:Yeah, let me touch a little bit upon that, so a lot of people say just like you mention, don’t you have to liberate the fat from your stores in order to lose it, there’s always some lipolysis going on whether you like it or not you can not inhibit it completely, and at rest your muscles burn mostly fat. So I would say the proper regimen of weight lifting maintaining, an anabolic environment, a high sugar diet and low stress our likely to burn the fat much more safely than the strenuous exercise, some fat is actually excreted by the liver through a process of gluco ornidation, and that process is actually inhibited under stress. While your liver understands that excess fat is not good it does its best to try to treat it, and by stressing it out with strenuous exercise the liver is busy trying to process all the toxins that are released from your colon and intestines as there is the bacteria getting irritated and producing endotoxin so the process of gluco ornidation almost completely stops. While you are under stress, so basically at rest the body the muscle consume mostly fat, especially heart and mostly glucose for the vital organs the brain and the gonads. Fatty acids are transported in the blood mostly through hepatacides which are liver cells, adipacides which are your fat cells or muscle fibers. Niacinamide helps the hepatacides glucoridinate and excrete the fat, and it does this by inhibiting the synthesis of triglycerides by the liver so fatty acids reaching the liver while taking Niacinamide would tend to get excreted instead of transformed into triglycerides and transported to the tissues for oxidation phosporilation. Muscles oxidize the fat as their main fuel at rest and with proper insulin sensitivity the fat will not be stored in adipacides. In other words if your liver is doing well and it’s not stressed the hepatacides, so you have three targets of the fatty acids; the liver, your fat tissue, and your muscles. If you are not under stress your muscles and your liver will take care of the fat that you want to lose. So in order to keep the fatty acids only going to the hepatacides and muscles, insulin should not be high which means no stress, no high cortisol or high adrenaline. No excessive lipolysis and thus no insulin resistance, In other words if you want your insulin to be low you should not have lipolysis. These free fatty acids destroy your insulin sensitivity directly, all through the randle cycle and by being an insulin receptor antagonist So keeping the stress hormones at bay is paramount for both the prevention of storage of dietary fat and also allowing the fat to be properly oxidized and excreted without additional stress, As I mentioned the stress inhibits the gluco ordination process, it also makes the cells produce lactic acid instead of oxidizing the fat properly for beta oxidation.

11 minutes 34 seconds

DR: When you cut your carbohydrate and you increase your fat you mentioned how central the liver is for everything, when you decrease the liver’s glycogen content do you think that also contributes to the stress state?

11 minutes 48 seconds

G: Whenever the glycogen is deplete, blood sugar starts to drop, and that’s a signal for the brain to start producing cortisol to keep the blood sugar at a level to keep the brain active. As soon as the glycogen stores are depleted the stress hormones kick into action, Cortisol will rise first it will start breaking down muscle tissue and it will redirect those amino acids to the liver where through deanimation transemination gluconeogenesis the liver will produce glucose. However, if the stress continues the organism realizes that more energy is needed and then adrenaline will rise and adrenaline will start shedding your fat tissue and basically releasing all these free fatty acids in the blood providing energy, because glucose is not enough, not even glucose through the breakdown of muscle tissue.

12 minutes 37 seconds

DR: Thus why a ketogenic diet is an abomination.

12 minutes 41 seconds

G: Yes, a ketogenic diet is probably the strongest signal for your organism if you are under stress. I guess starvation used be a very common type of stress that every animal including humans endured, but it can be just psychological stress can trigger that as well. Whenever you are under stress your energy requirements of course dramatically increase and you can deplete your glycogen stores a lot more quickly, Typically they can last four or five minutes in a healthy person, because the health of your liver is what primarily determines how much glycogen you can and given how poor liver health is in the western diet most people have little bit of glycogen maybe enough to sustain thirty seconds to a minute. Which means any stress more than that puts you in a stress state, and starts the stress hormone cascade. I want to talk a little about why burning fat is not preferable to oxidizing glucose, and I have some examples from the animal world which are apparently very well known, but nobody talks about them even though they are directly applicable to humans as well. As we all know an organism can generate energy from glucose through the activity of insulin or from fat through the beta oxidation and the krebs cycle. At rest or during brief activity the organism prefers glucose, however just as I mentioned prolonged exertion or stress depletes the glycogen stores, and leads to the increase of the stress hormones and then lipolysis and given the high caloric density of fat and it’s ease of storage it seems relatively implausible at least the evolutionary biologists agree that animals evolved to use fat mainly as fuel storage to be used during prolonged fast, and prolonged hibernation is a very good example of stress. This is supported by the fact that glycogen stores are limited, so fat is our energy reserves and reserves are typically used when the primary source of fuel isn’t available. Typically the lack of primary source of fuel is tied to adverse events. They may last a while and as such the use of fat as fuel is typically the result of adverse events however fat itself contributes to adaptation to the adverse events and it slows down the oxidative metabolism so that the fuel reserves can be conserved even longer. So it becomes a vicious cycle. I want to bring up the example of hibernation because it illustrates very well the randle cycle and the insulin resistance and diabetes. So it’s known that hibernating animals burn primarily fat while they are asleep because that is the only thing that can sustain them for three or four months a year, and it has become well known that they become temporarily diabetic. I posted a study on the forum and I talked to the author of that study and he said that it is very well known and most studies have been done on bears so I will talk about bears. When bears hibernate they do become fully diabetic. While they are in hibernation they are in ketosis and they burn through their fat stores, When they wake up they start refeeding and they prefer sugar rich foods, specifically honey, ripe fruits, things that ray has talked about and within a week or so, they have measured this in bear in captivity, and within a week or so their full blown diabetes disappears. This shows that stress and diabetes are closely related and stress can directly cause diabetes. And while in bears this seems to be a temporary state, and it’s a natural thing for them, they sleep during the winter there is no food around, there is no metabolic or biochemical difference between the diabetes induced in bears by fat oxidation and diabetes and insulin resistance induced in humans by the process of oxidizing fat. Now the good news is if we use the bears as a model this seems to be easily reversible by starting to eat more sugar which basically displaces the fatty acids from the randle cycle and the cells are capable again of oxidizing glucose. The stress stops and the animal recovers, I don’t know for how long this can continue, before serious damage occurs, in other words how long can you be diabetic and still be able to revert to normal metabolism? I don’t see any evidence that there is any permanent damage, I think that everything is reversible, under the right circumstances and with the right nutrition.

16 minutes 51 seconds

DR: A commonality in a lot of low carbohydrate diets is an emphasis in phosphate rich foods, and either avoidance of the calcium rich foods or kind of marginalizing them, in general. Do you think a higher phosphate amount in the diet and a lower calcium content, the subsequent increase in parathyroid hormone or PTH and prolactin, and various other hormones, do you think that could contribute to not only a lower metabolism but inhibit weight loss over time?

17 minutes and 28 seconds

G: Absolutely, I also think and I have noticed this on various social media sites as well as in the general press, in addition to the calcium rich foods, fructose is also demonized. Skip glucose eat difficult unrefined grains they are much better for you. Here’s the thing if anyone worries about insulin and the glycemic index and things like that well I have news for you regular sugar since it’s about 50% fructose, is a lot less insulinogenic than starch and also the metabolism of fructose does not require insulin. Fructose does many good things for the body, but some of the most beneficial ones are to very quickly and efficiently replace glycogen stores. In other words, to basically stop the stress response from stress, It also activate thyroxyhydrogenase which is crucial for the oxidation of all carbohydrates. Fructose also inhibits thyroxyhydrogenase kinase, which is highly expressed in tumor tissue and people with diabetes. It inhibits the enzyme ParthyroidHydrogenase, it breaks it down, so fructose stimulates the enzyme that oxidizes sugar and also inhibits the enzyme that breaks the enzyme that’s responsible for the oxidation of carbohydrates. Fructose has also been shown to deplete the phosphate stores, just as you mentioned, and with the lowering of phosphate store the lower your levels of parathyroid hormone will be, and it has been shown that elevated levels of parathyroid hormone are directly causative of diabetes both type 1 and type 2. In fact, animals with the parathyroid gland removed do not develop diabetes no matter what diet you feed them and finally this recommendation of eating starches I would say they are best avoided first because they generate a lot of endotoxin, if they are not well cooked, in other words the worst thing you can do is actually eating unrefined grains because that will make it through you small intestine to your large intestine where the bacteria will feed on them and generate a lot of endotoxin and consequently serotonin. Actually If you have to eat starch I would recommend eating only very processed well cooked starch just like ray does, like potatoes. I would still avoid grains like rice, because I just found out today that there is a special lignin in rice that is an inhibitor of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase and given how common rice consumption is in eastern asian countries, according to a scientist I talked to that partly explains the low level of body hair in eastern Asian cultures. I also want to talk about calcium. I would like to mention usually in the body the calcium and the phosphorus are inversely correlated. So the higher your phosphorus the lower your calcium and the other way around, and calcium and parathyroid are reversely correlated so basically phosphate and parathyroid altogether their both opposed by calcium. High phosphate is not just bad because it promotes para thyroid hormone, it’s bad because it has been associated with virtually every type of cancer. The more phosphate you ingest through your food the higher the risk of developing some type of cancer, and meats are especially high phosphate, grains and beans are extremely high in phosphates, higher than meats the best foods you can do to keep parathyroid hormone and phosphates down and possible prolactin because it’s so positively correlated with para thyroid hormone is to eat calcium rich foods a high ratio of calcium to phosphate, and even though milk has a decent amount of phosphate the ratio is probably the highest you can get from a natural food. I would recommend eating foods that are high in calcium and low in phosphate. Milk and milk products are examples of such food.

21 minutes and 2 seconds

DR: And you touched on the fact that sugar oxidation and fat oxidation are just completely different animals, and in fat oxidation it skips the pyruvate dihydrogenase step and what does that mean for our metabolism?

21 minutes and 20 seconds

G: Well basically the fatty acids have been known directly to inhibit unsaturated fatty acids. Ray talked about it in one of his articles and he mentioned one study that I pulled up on that, and I talked to some people who work at NIH. When you burn fat there are only a few fatty acids that don’t inhibit pyruvate dihydrogenase, Those are palmitic acid, Stearic acid, and luuric acid, so those are all saturated fat, they are found in coconut oil, and also found in butter. They are found in mostly animal fats, like the ruminant animals, coconut oils, or other tropical fruits. So those three acids are among the five or six known that do not inhibit pyruvate dihydrogenase, All the other fatty acids do, including oleic acid, which is the main acid in olive oil, so if you are going to be burning fat, in the majority of that fat it is known that in most people if it is not saturated fat, even if it is monounsaturated fat, you will be inhibiting strongly the enzyme Pyruvate dihydrogenase, and the inhibition of the enzyme leads to excessive glycolysis and many people don’t want to talk about that but a study recently came out that showed the excessive glycolysis in other words the Warburg effect is not really an effect it is the direct cause of cancer. Burning fat chronically is likely to give you cancer or at least damage the ability of your cells to oxidze sugars.

22 minutes and 43 seconds

DR: I am looking for right now, but you posted another study that showed fructose increased palmitic acid, and tying back into our last show fructose helps the liver create cholesterol for the synthesis of the youth associated steroids.

23 minutes

G: Right and Fructose is the first substrate in the liver to create glycogen. Fructose stimulates thyroxyhydrogenaze inhibits thyroxyhydrogenaze kinase, and in some cases fructose has actually been shown to stop the stress itself. There’s a study done with rats where they were injected directly with endotoxin, and of course you know the typical endotoxin shock response happened, they got a fever they started trembling. The group that did not get fructose, fell over and died, but the group that got fructose none of the animals died and in the animals where the stress response was not established yet, basically they were getting there, it stopped it completely immediately. Once again I want to stress that none of the animals in the fructose group died, so I also want to mention that fructose is the major sugar in the amniotic fluid, also in the seminal fluid, so the body preferentially uses fructose for very vital functions, so if it was really that bad for you why would it keep doing that at all

24 minutes 2 seconds

DR: Obviously a loaded question, but when you are looking at the anti fructose research, do you think there is an overarching theme? Like what’s the problem? How could these people be getting it so wrong?

24 minutes 12 seconds

G: Basically looking through the animal studies I used to read that abstracts until I realized that probably 99% of the value in a study is in the methods & materials section, which is where the scientists describe how the animals were treated and what the protocol was, how long, and what’s the rationale for using a specific diet. I would normally say that I have seen no more than three studies that did a proper diet, in other words separated the animals into groups and the fructose diet was really a high fructose diet(%). In most cases the high fructose diets includes starch and it was also relatively high fat. Eventhough by animal studies it is not considered high fat. I have not seen a good study within animals, including humans. I have not seen a well controlled study where an organism was really feda diet that was truly high fructose and not fed some other substance that is known to have an anti metabolic effect. In the lot that I have seen, like the one where I mentioned the endotoxin shock was stopped, that’s one of them. I just want to let you know that dying from endotoxic shock or senthesisia as it’s also known, is actually the third major cause of death in emergency departments. So fructose can easily stop that and Methylene Blue can do the same. So you can see some good properties, I think it’s a fairly low profile because it hasn’t been studied forever. Danny as you know, lately a lot of research depends on who funds it. If a lot of research gets funded by industry or an organization that has a political agenda you are bound to get the result that you want. Otherwise just know that they will never get funding for another study. I don’t mean to imply that all studies are like that I just want to say that number one I have not seen a well controlled study with high fructose and good design and also so many of the studies that come out anti fructose seem to be sponsored by think tanks that have an agenda against fructose.

26 minutes and 13 seconds

DR: In the first episode, we talked about the liberation of fat, and then the fatty acids being synthesized into prostaglandins, and prostaglandins are estrogenic and they increase the activity of aromatase, and that estrogen promotes the activity of prolactin. What’s prolactin and why should people care and what’s the use of measuring it?

26 minutes 38 seconds

G: Prolactin basically prolactin is acutely elevated due to stress but it’s also elevated in all major diseases. And prolactin is a very good marker for tissue estrogenic activity, unlike blood oestrogens which are known to vary from person to person and sometimes they are found to be inversely correlated with the enzyme aromatase and the total amount of estrogen in the body, and this is especially true in females. There are basically a few studies out there that determine, when are blood tests for hormones reliable? And they found that they are almost never reliable unless you are willing to do a biopsy, which is not a blood test it is a muscle tissue or some other tissue can be taken and analyzed. If you are using blood tests for steroids they are almost never reliable unless when there is a pathological condition like amino hyperglasia or some kind of adrenal mass or tumor that produces so much hormone that it spills out into the blood. In other words you only detect it during pathological conditions, but for most people there are surrogates for hormonal activity. And it seems like the best surrogate so far for aromatase activity and total amount of estrogen, the best surrogate so far seems to be prolactin. Its correlation with exhibition of estrogen in tissues is over 0.9 with 1.0 being a perfect one. It seems very close, and with serotonin it is 0.87, so it still pretty close, and levels of prolactin seem to be perfectly correlated with levels in the brain and this has been confirmed in both animals and human studies. It’s a test that can be easily ordered by the doctor and it can tell you several things: I would say prolactin is a very indicator of how much stress and how well your metabolism is working. If prolactin is high, you are not healthy.

28 minutes and 25 seconds

DR: I had a gentleman email me and he said his physician wouldn’t order a prolactin test because he isn’t an ovulating female.

28 minutes and 31 seconds

G: That’s a problem, I also talked to my doctor about it to, and he had to find a reason to order a prolactin test. Including because I didn’t have any of the signs or symptoms of hyperprolactinemia, so eventually I ended up paying for the tests myself, because I wanted it, and he told me there is very little discussion of prolactin and its effect on males. When most doctors go to medical school there’s very little discussion about that, and there’s usually if there is at all it is in the context of prolactin producing melanomas, it’s a benign tumor of the pituitary gland and those conditions are relatively rare, but in terms of how prolactin is elevated in chronic diseases and how it is associated with a number of cancers he may especially prostate and lung cancer, whenever I tell him about it he says “it is the first time he has heard about it.” They only talk about prolactin in the context of pituitary tumors and it is a shame because prolactin is just important to males as it is to females. It’s a very good marker of stress and pathology in general

29 minutes and 33 seconds

DR: Do you recommend getting a baseline, maybe getting a blood test, making sure everything’s alright checking cholesterol levels. I guess when we are talking about weight loss we are talking about the metabolism, and just kind of basing your experience off of information that you hear, and my experience usually isn’t that great of an idea. So getting some blood tests coupled with the best information that is available might give the person a great idea of where they stand and give them an idea of how to get where they want to be.

30 minutes and 6 seconds

G: I would say as you just mentioned I would do cholesterol and prolactin because the two of them combined would tell you where you are metabolically. Cholesterol is chronically elevated in people over the age of thirty and prolactin is elevated in many pathological conditions. So if your cholesterol is high and your prolactin is high that is a very good indication your metabolism is not working. Number one Prolactin means your estrogen is really high and your serotonin is really high. Both estrogen and serotonin increase directly cortisol and serotonin. If prolactin is high and you don’t have a pituitary tumor which is usually the case it means you are relying on the stress metabolism to function. If you are relying on the stress hormones, in other words lipolysis and oxidation of fat, then your steroid enzymes won’t be working very well you won’t be producing much ATP, which is a required cofactor in the creation of cholesterol. Cholesterol will end up decreasing as well. So I would say these two basic simple tests can give you a rough idea of where you stand metabolically.

31 minutes and 10 seconds

DR: Georgi thank you so much for talking me today where can we find more of your work on the internet this week

31 minutes and 17 seconds

G: Mostly on the raypeatforum.com, my user name on the forum is haidut {hey doot} my email is <redacted>, my skype is hiadut3 and the best way to reach me is to send me an email or join the forum and join the discussion

31 minutes and 43 seconds

DR: That’s going to conclude this week’s episode. I’d like to thank my patrons for sponsoring this, and if you would like to {and you should} go to patreon.com/dannyroddy. Next week I think we are going to cover mood & digestion. How they connect and improving bad digestion, like diarrhea or constipation, which seems to be a really common issue. So if you have any thoughts or topics you would like us to discuss please leave them in the comments section. And that’s going to be it. Thanks so much for listening and I appreciate all of you guys.

 

[Lanie]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

Did Haidut say that Vitamin k is an antibiotic or work like an antibiotic?

I would like to know this too. I'm sure he said vitamin K acts like an antibiotic, such as tetracycline. I've been giving my 5 year old vitamin K for over a year and I really don't want it behaving like tetracycline would (e.g., staining her adult teeth grey). Haidut, can you please say more about this?

 

[Dan W]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 108932 I really don't want it behaving like tetracycline would (e.g., staining her adult teeth grey)

Haidut may be able to answer better, but it sounds like the teeth-staining effect of tetracycline is due to the way it interacts with developing teeth. I wouldn't expect vitamin K to have the same problem.

 

[haidut]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 108932

Did Haidut say that Vitamin k is an antibiotic or work like an antibiotic?

I would like to know this too. I'm sure he said vitamin K acts like an antibiotic, such as tetracycline. I've been giving my 5 year old vitamin K for over a year and I really don't want it behaving like tetracycline would (e.g., staining her adult teeth grey). Haidut, can you please say more about this?

Vitamin K, tetracyclines, emodin and some other anthraquinone are all essentially the same molecule. Peat has talked about this several times.
viewtopic.php?t=5419
"...RP: If you put vitamin K and emodin and lapacho in a row and tetracycline (the antibiotic which is an anti-inflammatory), they're essentially the same structure with a different number of rings. But it's like each one is an analog of the other and each one has properties overlapping with those of the other — anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, anti-stress."

 

[lexis]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

post 109182

post 108932

Did Haidut say that Vitamin k is an antibiotic or work like an antibiotic?

I would like to know this too. I'm sure he said vitamin K acts like an antibiotic, such as tetracycline. I've been giving my 5 year old vitamin K for over a year and I really don't want it behaving like tetracycline would (e.g., staining her adult teeth grey). Haidut, can you please say more about this?

Vitamin K, tetracyclines, emodin and some other anthraquinone are all essentially the same molecule. Peat has talked about this several times.
viewtopic.php?t=5419
"...RP: If you put vitamin K and emodin and lapacho in a row and tetracycline (the antibiotic which is an anti-inflammatory), they're essentially the same structure with a different number of rings. But it's like each one is an analog of the other and each one has properties overlapping with those of the other — anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, anti-stress."

So many mgs of k2 will be the equivalent of 50mg minocycline?

 

[Peatri Dish]

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss

I hope no one will be offended. I cleaned up the transcript a bit. (Just corrected some of the biochemistry terms - not too worried about grammar, etc. Right?) I think it's important to really understand (to the best level that we can collectively) metabolism if we are going to apply Peat's ideas.
So here's my take on the names of the processes and enzymes that Haidut was talking about. Please correct me if I misunderstood.

Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss


Today I’m talking with Georgie aka Haidut of raypeatforum.com Georgi is an independent health researcher and the owner of idea labs a small company producing high-quality boutique supplements with the focus of supporting a healthy metabolism today georgi and I will discuss weight loss from a bioenergetic point of view or the interaction between sugars and fats and how they influence cellular respiration. in addition to thanking Gyorgi for talking with me today, I’d like to think my patrons from making this show and all the content I produced possible you like to become a patron you can go to patreon dot com slash Danny Roddy without further ado here’s the show

DR: This is not something I am specifically interested in although it gets such a common question and I feel like its A product of the dumbing down of the nutrition scene and it like a question that’s Phrased often “if you are recommending sugars in a diet, how are you going to lose fat” It’s like everyone knows you have to Go on a low carb diet to lose fat. I thought that would be a good starting place and then from there we can start talking about free fatty acids the hormones we don’t have to to dive too much into Pufa, because obviously we did the whole show in it. I was curious because we Both have a low carb experience and I thought we could tie that into this show. If I play devils advocate and Gyorgi and I ask you how would I lose fat on a high sugar diet what would be your response?

2 minutes and 12 seconds

Gyorgi: So my response would be I will explain the process a little bit and it may sound initially a little counter intuitive. I’ll just say that the latest drugs for combating obesity and diabetes are based on inhibiting the hormones cortisol and adrenaline. And these are the stress hormones and they are involved in increasing the pulse and path of oxidation. So if the mainstream drugs are actually acting in a way opposite of fat oxidation, you know the common perception of “burning fat to lose fat” is probably not medically sound. I want to start with describing if you keep fat intake low and inhibit the excessive liberation of fatty acids, over time your insulin sensitivity will improve and your insulin levels will go down. Insulin levels with cortisol are basically driving the storage of fat. This means that when sugar is ingested stress is low and free fatty acids are low. When we ingest sugar it can be oxidized because the Randle Cycle is not being blocked by excess fat. And this sugar even if you eat a lot of it will not be turned into fat. And by the way even if you a problem oxidizing sugar, the so called de novo fatty acid sysnthesis of sugar is energetically a very expensive process. There have been some human studies in healthy and obese people and they have found that de novo fatty acid synthesis from carbohydrate does not occur until the diet gets over 500 grams of carbs daily. And that is more than twice the amount of carbs than people ingest daily at least in the western world, and People on the Standard American Diet. So even if somebody has a propensity to convert carbs into fat due to a deficiency in lets say vitamin b3 or Biotin. Taking a little bit of those and a little bit of niacinamide can prevent or at least inhibit the excessive conversion of carbohydrates into fat. In summary weight gain especially fat gain is due to high stress hormones, because that results in the liberation of free fatty acids, which in themselves cause insulin resistance all through the Randle Cycle, because they prevent the Oxidation of glucose. And also FREE FATTY ACIDS have found to be direct insulin receptor antagonists. So this means that free fatty acids will make you insulin resistant and also prevent your cells from oxidizing sugar. The FREE FATTY ACIDS will also increase serotonin, especially pufa, serotonin and cortisol, and this will promote the stress state even more. The fatty acid increase serotonin by activating the enzyme TPH tryptophan Hydroxylase which inhibits the synthesis of niacin. And the worse the metabolism gets away from niacin to some excitotoxic by products of Trytophan. Combine the stress metabolism with a high fat diet, which is the typical standard American diet, this means high insulin. Right so fat storage will be high, hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia. On a high sugar low fat moderate protein diet lets say metabolism will be increased due to the sugars effect on thyroid hormone. Proteins effect on thermogenesis, and basically over time the liver will be able to excrete the excess fat. Many drugs currently on the market are actually targeting the enzyme 11 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1. This is the enzyme that synthesizes cortisol, and inhibiting that enzyme and effectively lowering cortisol is shown to lead to weight loss regardless of the diet. Whether you eat high sugar, high fat, high protein, etc. Anti Adrenaline drugs like Clonadine have been shown to do the same You know, in other words drugs that lower the stress hormones and thus lipolysis, because Lipolysis is initiated by the stress hormones. Drugs that lower the stress hormones lead to weight loss. And this is fairly well established medical fact, It’s just that the pharma industry has yet to get a drug like that approved but they are hot on the trail. That is the mechanism of action these drugs are acting anti-stress, anti lipolysis, anti oxidation of fat and they invariably lead to weight loss.

6 minutes 19 seconds

DR:You mentioned the randle cycle, and myself coming from a LC background. I think I first read about it from ray, and was completely oblivious to the idea and its not actually a cycle, but it helped me at least understand in the beginning how I had been fooled by the idea that fat oxidation was preferable over glucose. Can you explain a little bit about the randle cycle, and I am still confused why almost no low carb person I have ever read ever mentions it.

6 minutes 53 seconds

G:The glucose fatty acid cycle, it is a metabolic process that involves the competition of glucose and fatty acids for substrate of oxidation. In other words your cells at any given point of time sense the presence of either glucose or fatty acids and they can only process one at a time. I don’t know if the exact ratio is known, but let’s say you have a ratio that favors more fatty acid in the bloodstream versus glucose your cells will oxidize the fatty acids and ignore the glucose, because they can’t oxidize it. That’s what directly leads to hyperglycemia. Your cells just can not process the glucose as long as there is sufficient fatty acid in the blood to prevent the oxidation of glucose, and it has been shown that inhibiting lipolysis lowers the amount of free fatty acids in the blood effectively allows the cells to resume the oxidation of glucose unless you have another problem like deficiency in one of the enzymes of the krebs cycle, or there’s a deficiency in the electron transport chain, but by in large most people lowering the free fatty acids will reverse insulin resistance, the inability to oxidize glucose, and several drugs on the market try to do that but niacinamide has been shown to that and so has aspirin.

8 minutes 10 seconds

DR:The way I see it the Low carb idea is completely divorced from the whole individual, what hormones are going up and down, and I think even paul jamminet, famous from the perfect health diet, I can’t remember the exact quote, but I remember him distinctly saying that he thought the hormones were too complex to write about, and I think that it really encapsulates almost everything wrong with that point of view, it’s just not accounting for how many variables are involved in the idea of supporting oxidative metabolism.

8 minutes 50 seconds

G:Yeah, let me touch a little bit upon that, so a lot of people say just like you mention, don’t you have to liberate the fat from your stores in order to lose it, there’s always some lipolysis going on whether you like it or not you can not inhibit it completely, and at rest your muscles burn mostly fat. So I would say the proper regimen of weight lifting maintaining, an anabolic environment, a high sugar diet and low stress our likely to burn the fat much more safely than the strenuous exercise, some fat is actually excreted by the liver through a process of gluco ornidation, and that process is actually inhibited under stress. While your liver understands that excess fat is not good it does its best to try to treat it, and by stressing it out with strenuous exercise the liver is busy trying to process all the toxins that are released from your colon and intestines as there is the bacteria getting irritated and producing endotoxin so the process of glucuronidation almost completely stops. While you are under stress, so basically at rest the body the muscle consume mostly fat, especially heart and mostly glucose for the vital organs the brain and the gonads. Fatty acids are transported in the blood mostly through hepatocytes which are liver cells, adipocytes which are your fat cells or muscle fibers. Niacinamide helps the hepatocytes glucuronidate and excrete the fat, and it does this by inhibiting the synthesis of triglycerides by the liver so fatty acids reaching the liver while taking Niacinamide would tend to get excreted instead of transformed into triglycerides and transported to the tissues for oxidative phosporylation. Muscles oxidize the fat as their main fuel at rest and with proper insulin sensitivity the fat will not be stored in adipocytes. In other words if your liver is doing well and it’s not stressed the hepatocytes, so you have three targets of the fatty acids; the liver, your fat tissue, and your muscles. If you are not under stress your muscles and your liver will take care of the fat that you want to lose. So in order to keep the fatty acids only going to the hepatocytes and muscles, insulin should not be high which means no stress, no high cortisol or high adrenaline. No excessive lipolysis and thus no insulin resistance, In other words if you want your insulin to be low you should not have lipolysis. These free fatty acids destroy your insulin sensitivity directly, all through the randle cycle and by being an insulin receptor antagonist So keeping the stress hormones at bay is paramount for both the prevention of storage of dietary fat and also allowing the fat to be properly oxidized and excreted without additional stress, As I mentioned the stress inhibits the glucuronidation process, it also makes the cells produce lactic acid instead of oxidizing the fat properly for beta oxidation.

11 minutes 34 seconds

DR: When you cut your carbohydrate and you increase your fat you mentioned how central the liver is for everything, when you decrease the liver’s glycogen content do you think that also contributes to the stress state?

11 minutes 48 seconds

G: Whenever the glycogen is deplete, blood sugar starts to drop, and that’s a signal for the brain to start producing cortisol to keep the blood sugar at a level to keep the brain active. As soon as the glycogen stores are depleted the stress hormones kick into action, Cortisol will rise first it will start breaking down muscle tissue and it will redirect those amino acids to the liver where through deamination, transamination and gluconeogenesis the liver will produce glucose. However, if the stress continues the organism realizes that more energy is needed and then adrenaline will rise and adrenaline will start shedding your fat tissue and basically releasing all these free fatty acids in the blood providing energy, because glucose is not enough, not even glucose through the breakdown of muscle tissue.

12 minutes 37 seconds

DR: Thus why a ketogenic diet is an abomination.

12 minutes 41 seconds

G: Yes, a ketogenic diet is probably the strongest signal for your organism if you are under stress. I guess starvation used be a very common type of stress that every animal including humans endured, but it can be just psychological stress can trigger that as well. Whenever you are under stress your energy requirements of course dramatically increase and you can deplete your glycogen stores a lot more quickly, Typically they can last four or five minutes in a healthy person, because the health of your liver is what primarily determines how much glycogen you can and given how poor liver health is in the western diet most people have little bit of glycogen maybe enough to sustain thirty seconds to a minute. Which means any stress more than that puts you in a stress state, and starts the stress hormone cascade. I want to talk a little about why burning fat is not preferable to oxidizing glucose, and I have some examples from the animal world which are apparently very well known, but nobody talks about them even though they are directly applicable to humans as well. As we all know an organism can generate energy from glucose through the activity of insulin or from fat through the beta oxidation and the krebs cycle. At rest or during brief activity the organism prefers glucose, however just as I mentioned prolonged exertion or stress depletes the glycogen stores, and leads to the increase of the stress hormones and then lipolysis and given the high caloric density of fat and it’s ease of storage it seems relatively plausible at least the evolutionary biologists agree that animals evolved to use fat mainly as fuel storage to be used during prolonged fast, and prolonged hibernation is a very good example of stress. This is supported by the fact that glycogen stores are limited, so fat is our energy reserves and reserves are typically used when the primary source of fuel isn’t available. Typically the lack of primary source of fuel is tied to adverse events. They may last a while and as such the use of fat as fuel is typically the result of adverse events however fat itself contributes to adaptation to the adverse events and it slows down the oxidative metabolism so that the fuel reserves can be conserved even longer. So it becomes a vicious cycle. I want to bring up the example of hibernation because it illustrates very well the randle cycle and the insulin resistance and diabetes. So it’s known that hibernating animals burn primarily fat while they are asleep because that is the only thing that can sustain them for three or four months a year, and it has become well known that they become temporarily diabetic. I posted a study on the forum and I talked to the author of that study and he said that it is very well known and most studies have been done on bears so I will talk about bears. When bears hibernate they do become fully diabetic. While they are in hibernation they are in ketosis and they burn through their fat stores, When they wake up they start refeeding and they prefer sugar rich foods, specifically honey, ripe fruits, things that ray has talked about and within a week or so, they have measured this in bears in captivity, and within a week or so their full blown diabetes disappears. This shows that stress and diabetes are closely related and stress can directly cause diabetes. And while in bears this seems to be a temporary state, and it’s a natural thing for them, they sleep during the winter there is no food around, there is no metabolic or biochemical difference between the diabetes induced in bears by fat oxidation and diabetes and insulin resistance induced in humans by the process of oxidizing fat. Now the good news is if we use the bears as a model this seems to be easily reversible by starting to eat more sugar which basically displaces the fatty acids from the randle cycle and the cells are capable again of oxidizing glucose. The stress stops and the animal recovers, I don’t know for how long this can continue, before serious damage occurs, in other words how long can you be diabetic and still be able to revert to normal metabolism? I don’t see any evidence that there is any permanent damage, I think that everything is reversible, under the right circumstances and with the right nutrition.

16 minutes 51 seconds

DR: A commonality in a lot of low carbohydrate diets is an emphasis in phosphate rich foods, and either avoidance of the calcium rich foods or kind of marginalizing them, in general. Do you think a higher phosphate amount in the diet and a lower calcium content, the subsequent increase in parathyroid hormone or PTH and prolactin, and various other hormones, do you think that could contribute to not only a lower metabolism but inhibit weight loss over time?

17 minutes and 28 seconds

G: Absolutely, I also think and I have noticed this on various social media sites as well as in the general press, in addition to the calcium rich foods, fructose is also demonized. Skip glucose eat difficult to process, unrefined grains they are much better for you. Here’s the thing if anyone worries about insulin and the glycemic index and things like that well I have news for you regular sugar since it’s about 50% fructose, is a lot less insulinogenic than starch and also the metabolism of fructose does not require insulin. Fructose does many good things for the body, but some of the most beneficial ones are to very quickly and efficiently replace glycogen stores. In other words, to basically stop the stress response from stress, It also activate pyruvate dehydrogenase which is crucial for the oxidation of all carbohydrates. Fructose also inhibits pyruvate dehydrogenase kinase, which is highly expressed in tumor tissue and people with diabetes. It inhibits the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase, it breaks it down, so fructose stimulates the enzyme that oxidizes sugar and also inhibits the enzyme that breaks the enzyme that’s responsible for the oxidation of carbohydrates. Fructose has also been shown to deplete the phosphate stores, just as you mentioned, and with the lowering of phosphate store the lower your levels of parathyroid hormone will be, and it has been shown that elevated levels of parathyroid hormone are directly causative of diabetes both type 1 and type 2. In fact, animals with the parathyroid gland removed do not develop diabetes no matter what diet you feed them and finally this recommendation of eating starches I would say they are best avoided first because they generate a lot of endotoxin, if they are not well cooked, in other words the worst thing you can do is actually eating unrefined grains because that will make it through you small intestine to your large intestine where the bacteria will feed on them and generate a lot of endotoxin and consequently serotonin. Actually If you have to eat starch I would recommend eating only very processed well cooked starch just like ray does, like potatoes. I would still avoid grains like rice, because I just found out today that there is a special lignin in rice that is an inhibitor of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase and given how common rice consumption is in eastern asian countries, according to a scientist I talked to that partly explains the low level of body hair in eastern Asian cultures. I also want to talk about calcium. I would like to mention usually in the body the calcium and the phosphorus are inversely correlated. So the higher your phosphorus the lower your calcium and the other way around, and calcium and parathyroid are reversely correlated so basically phosphate and parathyroid altogether their both opposed by calcium. High phosphate is not just bad because it promotes para thyroid hormone, it’s bad because it has been associated with virtually every type of cancer. The more phosphate you ingest through your food the higher the risk of developing some type of cancer, and meats are especially high phosphate, grains and beans are extremely high in phosphates, higher than meats the best foods you can do to keep parathyroid hormone and phosphates down and possible prolactin because it’s so positively correlated with para thyroid hormone is to eat calcium rich foods a high ratio of calcium to phosphate, and even though milk has a decent amount of phosphate the ratio is probably the highest you can get from a natural food. I would recommend eating foods that are high in calcium and low in phosphate. Milk and milk products are examples of such food.

21 minutes and 2 seconds

DR: And you touched on the fact that sugar oxidation and fat oxidation are just completely different animals, and in fat oxidation it skips the pyruvate dehydrogenase step and what does that mean for our metabolism?

21 minutes and 20 seconds

G: Well basically the fatty acids have been known directly to inhibit unsaturated fatty acids. Ray talked about it in one of his articles and he mentioned one study that I pulled up on that, and I talked to some people who work at NIH. When you burn fat there are only a few fatty acids that don’t inhibit pyruvate dehydrogenase, Those are palmitic acid, Stearic acid, and lauric acid, so those are all saturated fat, they are found in coconut oil, and also found in butter. They are found in mostly animal fats, like the ruminant animals, coconut oils, or other tropical fruits. So those three acids are among the five or six known that do not inhibit pyruvate dehydrogenase, All the other fatty acids do, including oleic acid, which is the main acid in olive oil, so if you are going to be burning fat, in the majority of that fat it is known that in most people if it is not saturated fat, even if it is monounsaturated fat, you will be inhibiting strongly the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase, and the inhibition of the enzyme leads to excessive glycolysis and many people don’t want to talk about that but a study recently came out that showed the excessive glycolysis, in other words the Warburg effect, is not really an effect it is the direct cause of cancer. Burning fat chronically is likely to give you cancer or at least damage the ability of your cells to oxidze sugars.

22 minutes and 43 seconds

DR: I am looking for right now, but you posted another study that showed fructose increased palmitic acid, and tying back into our last show fructose helps the liver create cholesterol for the synthesis of the youth associated steroids.

23 minutes

G: Right and Fructose is the first substrate in the liver to create glycogen. Fructose stimulates pyruvate dehydrogenase inhibits pyruvate dehydrogenase kinase, and in some cases fructose has actually been shown to stop the stress itself. There’s a study done with rats where they were injected directly with endotoxin, and of course you know the typical endotoxin shock response happened, they got a fever they started trembling. The group that did not get fructose, fell over and died, but the group that got fructose none of the animals died and in the animals where the stress response was not established yet, basically they were getting there, it stopped it completely immediately. Once again I want to stress that none of the animals in the fructose group died, so I also want to mention that fructose is the major sugar in the amniotic fluid, also in the seminal fluid, so the body preferentially uses fructose for very vital functions, so if it was really that bad for you why would it keep doing that at all

24 minutes 2 seconds

DR: Obviously a loaded question, but when you are looking at the anti fructose research, do you think there is an overarching theme? Like what’s the problem? How could these people be getting it so wrong?

24 minutes 12 seconds

G: Basically looking through the animal studies I used to read that abstracts until I realized that probably 99% of the value in a study is in the methods & materials section, which is where the scientists describe how the animals were treated and what the protocol was, how long, and what’s the rationale for using a specific diet. I would normally say that I have seen no more than three studies that did a proper diet, in other words separated the animals into groups and the fructose diet was really a high fructose diet(%). In most cases the high fructose diets includes starch and it was also relatively high fat. Eventhough by animal studies it is not considered high fat. I have not seen a good study within animals, including humans. I have not seen a well controlled study where an organism was really fed a diet that was truly high fructose and not fed some other substance that is known to have an anti metabolic effect. In the lot that I have seen, like the one where I mentioned the endotoxin shock was stopped, that’s one of them. I just want to let you know that dying from endotoxic shock or septicemia as it’s also known, is actually the third major cause of death in emergency departments. So fructose can easily stop that and Methylene Blue can do the same. So you can see some good properties, I think it’s a fairly low profile because it hasn’t been studied forever. Danny as you know, lately a lot of research depends on who funds it. If a lot of research gets funded by industry or an organization that has a political agenda you are bound to get the result that you want. Otherwise just know that they will never get funding for another study. I don’t mean to imply that all studies are like that I just want to say that number one I have not seen a well controlled study with high fructose and good design and also so many of the studies that come out anti fructose seem to be sponsored by think tanks that have an agenda against fructose.

26 minutes and 13 seconds

DR: In the first episode, we talked about the liberation of fat, and then the fatty acids being synthesized into prostaglandins, and prostaglandins are estrogenic and they increase the activity of aromatase, and that estrogen promotes the activity of prolactin. What’s prolactin and why should people care and what’s the use of measuring it?

26 minutes 38 seconds

G: Prolactin basically prolactin is acutely elevated due to stress but it’s also elevated in all major diseases. And prolactin is a very good marker for tissue estrogenic activity, unlike blood estrogens which are known to vary from person to person and sometimes they are found to be inversely correlated with the enzyme aromatase and the total amount of estrogen in the body, and this is especially true in females. There are basically a few studies out there that determine, when are blood tests for hormones reliable? And they found that they are almost never reliable unless you are willing to do a biopsy, which is not a blood test it is a muscle tissue or some other tissue can be taken and analyzed. If you are using blood tests for steroids they are almost never reliable unless when there is a pathological condition like adrenal hyperplasia or some kind of adrenal mass or tumor that produces so much hormone that it spills out into the blood. In other words you only detect it during pathological conditions, but for most people there are surrogates for hormonal activity. And it seems like the best surrogate so far for aromatase activity and total amount of estrogen, the best surrogate so far seems to be prolactin. Its correlation with exhibition of estrogen in tissues is over 0.9 with 1.0 being a perfect one. It seems very close, and with serotonin it is 0.87, so it still pretty close, and levels of prolactin seem to be perfectly correlated with levels in the brain and this has been confirmed in both animals and human studies. It’s a test that can be easily ordered by the doctor and it can tell you several things: I would say prolactin is a very indicator of how much stress and how well your metabolism is working. If prolactin is high, you are not healthy.

28 minutes and 25 seconds

DR: I had a gentleman email me and he said his physician wouldn’t order a prolactin test because he isn’t an ovulating female.

28 minutes and 31 seconds

G: That’s a problem, I also talked to my doctor about it to, and he had to find a reason to order a prolactin test. Including because I didn’t have any of the signs or symptoms of hyperprolactinemia, so eventually I ended up paying for the tests myself, because I wanted it, and he told me there is very little discussion of prolactin and its effect on males. When most doctors go to medical school there’s very little discussion about that, and there’s usually if there is at all it is in the context of prolactin producing melanomas, it’s a benign tumor of the pituitary gland and those conditions are relatively rare, but in terms of how prolactin is elevated in chronic diseases and how it is associated with a number of cancers he may especially prostate and lung cancer, whenever I tell him about it he says “it is the first time he has heard about it.” They only talk about prolactin in the context of pituitary tumors and it is a shame because prolactin is just important to males as it is to females. It’s a very good marker of stress and pathology in general

29 minutes and 33 seconds

DR: Do you recommend getting a baseline, maybe getting a blood test, making sure everything’s alright checking cholesterol levels. I guess when we are talking about weight loss we are talking about the metabolism, and just kind of basing your experience off of information that you hear, and my experience usually isn’t that great of an idea. So getting some blood tests coupled with the best information that is available might give the person a great idea of where they stand and give them an idea of how to get where they want to be.

30 minutes and 6 seconds

G: I would say as you just mentioned I would do cholesterol and prolactin because the two of them combined would tell you where you are metabolically. Cholesterol is chronically elevated in people over the age of thirty and prolactin is elevated in many pathological conditions. So if your cholesterol is high and your prolactin is high that is a very good indication your metabolism is not working. Number one Prolactin means your estrogen is really high and your serotonin is really high. Both estrogen and serotonin increase directly cortisol and serotonin. If prolactin is high and you don’t have a pituitary tumor which is usually the case it means you are relying on the stress metabolism to function. If you are relying on the stress hormones, in other words lipolysis and oxidation of fat, then your steroid enzymes won’t be working very well you won’t be producing much ATP, which is a required cofactor in the creation of cholesterol. Cholesterol will end up decreasing as well. So I would say these two basic simple tests can give you a rough idea of where you stand metabolically.

31 minutes and 10 seconds

DR: Georgi thank you so much for talking me today where can we find more of your work on the internet this week

31 minutes and 17 seconds

G: Mostly on the raypeatforum.com, my user name on the forum is haidut {hey doot} my email is <redacted>, my skype is hiadut3 and the best way to reach me is to send me an email or join the forum and join the discussion

31 minutes and 43 seconds

DR: That’s going to conclude this week’s episode. I’d like to thank my patrons for sponsoring this, and if you would like to {and you should} go to patreon.com/dannyroddy. Next week I think we are going to cover mood & digestion. How they connect and improving bad digestion, like diarrhea or constipation, which seems to be a really common issue. So if you have any thoughts or topics you would like us to discuss please leave them in the comments section. And that’s going to be it. Thanks so much for listening and I appreciate all of you guys.

 

[deeri681]

Generative Energy #9: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss (with Haidut)

Hi Haidut,

Do you have the research articles that sites palmitic acid, Stearic acid, and lauric acid as the saturated fats that do not inhibit pyruvate dehydrogenase?

Thank so much,

Kate