Generative Energy #11: Nitric Oxide And Methylene Blue (with Haidut)

haidut

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Generative Energy + Haidut #5: Nitric Oxide and Methylene Blue

Makrosky said:
post 107489 Fantastic audio!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Dan and thanks haidut.

Btw, there's a thing I don't understand...

If the body is producing nitric oxide that is because it needs it, right ? If you take something like Methylene Blue to reduce the nitric oxide but don't act upon the underlying cause that brought NO up in the first place... maybe you're doing more harm than good ?

If you take methylene blue it will also improve oxidative metabolism and raise CO2 production. So, you are getting the best of both worlds - lower NO and higher CO2, which is what should be happening under optimal conditions anyways.
 
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haidut

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Generative Energy + Haidut #5: Nitric Oxide and Methylene Blue

CoolTweetPete said:
post 107563
Parsifal said:
post 107498
Makrosky said:
post 107489 Fantastic audio!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Dan and thanks haidut.

Btw, there's a thing I don't understand...

If the body is producing nitric oxide that is because it needs it, right ? If you take something like Methylene Blue to reduce the nitric oxide but don't act upon the underlying cause that brought NO up in the first place... maybe you're doing more harm than good ?
I was thinking about it as well. I have a problem with chronic high NO but don't know how to lower it, I'm Peating since 2 month now but without supplements like caffeine, aspirin and niacinamide I would still have symptoms of high NO.

Great podcast, guys. Thanks for doing these. I reupped on methylene blue after hearing this! :hattip

Alas, I had the same question. If we're reducing NO, and the body had produced it as a compensatory molecule for a lack of CO2, aren't we potentially causing hypoxia? Hope Georgi can chime in.

I just responded to another post. MB also raises CO2 production by improving metabolism. It oxidizes NADH back to NAD, which tends to lower lactate and thus also decrease hypoxia. MB has several mechanisms through which it acts like a bypass to several blocks along glycolysis, Krebs cycle or oxidative phosphorylation. I'd say it's one of the most fundamental supplements in Peat-world.
 
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haidut

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Generative Energy + Haidut #5: Nitric Oxide and Methylene Blue

hmac said:
post 107772
CoolTweetPete said:
post 107563
Parsifal said:
post 107498
Makrosky said:
post 107489 Fantastic audio!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Dan and thanks haidut.

Btw, there's a thing I don't understand...

If the body is producing nitric oxide that is because it needs it, right ? If you take something like Methylene Blue to reduce the nitric oxide but don't act upon the underlying cause that brought NO up in the first place... maybe you're doing more harm than good ?
I was thinking about it as well. I have a problem with chronic high NO but don't know how to lower it, I'm Peating since 2 month now but without supplements like caffeine, aspirin and niacinamide I would still have symptoms of high NO.

Great podcast, guys. Thanks for doing these. I reupped on methylene blue after hearing this! :hattip

Alas, I had the same question. If we're reducing NO, and the body had produced it as a compensatory molecule for a lack of CO2, aren't we potentially causing hypoxia? Hope Georgi can chime in.

Perhaps Haidut will correct me but I'm pretty sure that when nitric oxide is 'filling in' for CO2 it is in terms of its capacity to induce vasodilation rather than to oxygenate tissues. In terms of tissue oxygenation NO and CO2 have opposite effects. Furthermore, any of the substances that you would take to reduce NO also improve the rate of oxygen consumption at the cellular level - so you shouldn't have a problem

Yes, this is correct. I am not sure how it came across that NO somehow improves tissue oxygenation. I thought we discussed in the show that CO2 is the proper vasodilatory factor and NO is an emergency dilator that can CAUSE hypoxia if present for too long. NO and lactate are primary drivers of angiogenesis precisely b/c of the hypoxia they cause. In the show I also said NO binds to cytochrome C and prevents oxygen from accepting the excess electrons from NADH and QH. Also, at the surface of the cell NO reacts with oxygen and creates superoxide, which is both dangerous by causing oxidative stress also sort of wastes oxygen.
 
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CoolTweetPete

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Generative Energy + Haidut #5: Nitric Oxide and Methylene Blue

haidut said:
post 107903
CoolTweetPete said:
post 107563
Parsifal said:
post 107498
Makrosky said:
post 107489 Fantastic audio!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Dan and thanks haidut.

Btw, there's a thing I don't understand...

If the body is producing nitric oxide that is because it needs it, right ? If you take something like Methylene Blue to reduce the nitric oxide but don't act upon the underlying cause that brought NO up in the first place... maybe you're doing more harm than good ?
I was thinking about it as well. I have a problem with chronic high NO but don't know how to lower it, I'm Peating since 2 month now but without supplements like caffeine, aspirin and niacinamide I would still have symptoms of high NO.

Great podcast, guys. Thanks for doing these. I reupped on methylene blue after hearing this! :hattip

Alas, I had the same question. If we're reducing NO, and the body had produced it as a compensatory molecule for a lack of CO2, aren't we potentially causing hypoxia? Hope Georgi can chime in.

I just responded to another post. MB also raises CO2 production by improving metabolism. It oxidizes NADH back to NAD, which tends to lower lactate and thus also decrease hypoxia. MB has several mechanisms through which it acts like a bypass to several blocks along glycolysis, Krebs cycle or oxidative phosphorylation. I'd say it's one of the most fundamental supplements in Peat-world.

Great to know, thank you Georgi. These are such fascinating ideas. :hattip
 
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haidut

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Generative Energy + Haidut #5: Nitric Oxide and Methylene Blue

johnwester130 said:
post 107937 this thread also said red light and methylene blue are similar

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t115 ... me-as-lllt

Similar as to their effects on cytochrome C bond with NO. But methylene blue has other effects on metabolism that red light probably doesn't. I am not aware of red light oxidizing NADH and thus raising NAD/NADH ratio, inhibiting iNOS, or lowering lactate.
That being said, MB and red light are synergistic and as such are used as "phototherapy" combination for a number of conditions, including skin cancer.
 
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Cheesecake

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Generative Energy + Haidut #5: Nitric Oxide and Methylene Blue



Similar as to their effects on cytochrome C bond with NO. But methylene blue has other effects on metabolism that red light probably doesn't. I am not aware of red light oxidizing NADH and thus raising NAD/NADH ratio, inhibiting iNOS, or lowering lactate.
That being said, MB and red light are synergistic and as such are used as "phototherapy" combination for a number of conditions, including skin cancer.
@haidut (Georgi) can you recommend a good maker/supplier of good quality capnometers?
From what you mention about them in this interview, I take it you think they're worthwhile, and possibly more helpful with assessing metabolism than pulse and temp ...?
 

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@haidut (Georgi) can you recommend a good maker/supplier of good quality capnometers?
From what you mention about them in this interview, I take it you think they're worthwhile, and possibly more helpful with assessing metabolism than pulse and temp ...?

I think there is only one vendor right now that makes portable capnometers available to the general public. You can go to ebay and search for "capnometer" and you will see the small device that fits in the palm of a person's hand, with red digits showing the CO2 levels. I don't know how good these products are but the one I have used in the past form the same vendor matches my blood test results rather well.
 

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I think there is only one vendor right now that makes portable capnometers available to the general public. You can go to ebay and search for "capnometer" and you will see the small device that fits in the palm of a person's hand, with red digits showing the CO2 levels. I don't know how good these products are but the one I have used in the past form the same vendor matches my blood test results rather well.
Ok terrific! Will look it up thank you
 

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I think there is only one vendor right now that makes portable capnometers available to the general public. You can go to ebay and search for "capnometer" and you will see the small device that fits in the palm of a person's hand, with red digits showing the CO2 levels. I don't know how good these products are but the one I have used in the past form the same vendor matches my blood test results rather well.
@haidut would this be the model? Masimo - EMMA™ Emergency Capnometer No hand held devices currently in eBay but this model comes up a lot in capnometer searches. If that's the one I'll try and find a supplier. Also: how's it different to an oximeter? Thanks
 

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@haidut would this be the model? Masimo - EMMA™ Emergency Capnometer No hand held devices currently in eBay but this model comes up a lot in capnometer searches. If that's the one I'll try and find a supplier. Also: how's it different to an oximeter? Thanks

Yep, that's the one. Multiple companies make them so their names are different but I think the underlying technology and even the electronics are the same.
Oximeter just measures blood oxygen saturation and does not indicate what is tissue saturation with oxygen.
 

Cheesecake

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Yep, that's the one. Multiple companies make them so their names are different but I think the underlying technology and even the electronics are the same.
Oximeter just measures blood oxygen saturation and does not indicate what is tissue saturation with oxygen.
Thanks so much for clarifying that
 

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Hi Haidut,

I think you mentioned in your talk with Danny Roddy on MB / NO that the most accurate measure of health would be a capnometer. Could you post an example of one you mean?
Is something like the EMMA Emergency Capnometer good for this purpose?

Thanks
 
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I think you mentioned in your talk with Danny Roddy on MB / NO that the most accurate measure of health would be a capnometer. Could you post an example of one you mean?
Is something like the EMMA Emergency Capnometer good for this purpose?

The EMMA one is supposed to be a good option, see here for some discussion. There was also someone looking at a cheaper DIY approach here.
 

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Yep, that's the one. Multiple companies make them so their names are different but I think the underlying technology and even the electronics are the same.
Oximeter just measures blood oxygen saturation and does not indicate what is tissue saturation with oxygen.
Hi Haidut,

In your opinion if one were to use a capnometer, would you use it instead of pulse and temperature? i.e. 30 minutes after a meal test to see if your co2 has increased etc.

As I understand it, Peat has said agreed that inceased co2 can decrease the heart rate. But this is due to increased volume of blood being pumped with each pump, as opposed to their being a reduced fresh blood supply. So it would make sense that a capnometer would be better informative.


Also, what do you think of a pulse oximeter compared to a capnometer?
 
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haidut

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Hi Haidut,

In your opinion if one were to use a capnometer, would you use it instead of pulse and temperature? i.e. 30 minutes after a meal test to see if your co2 has increased etc.

As I understand it, Peat has said agreed that inceased co2 can decrease the heart rate. But this is due to increased volume of blood being pumped with each pump, as opposed to their being a reduced fresh blood supply. So it would make sense that a capnometer would be better informative.


Also, what do you think of a pulse oximeter compared to a capnometer?

I think all three are best used together - pulse, temperature and capnometer. However, the capnometer itself is probably pretty accurate since it would be hard to have high CO2 levels without proper metabolism. The only cases I can think of where there would be high CO2 in suboptimal health is if somebody has the condition osteopetrosis or has some type of lung condition resulting in increased retention of CO2.
 

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I think all three are best used together - pulse, temperature and capnometer. However, the capnometer itself is probably pretty accurate since it would be hard to have high CO2 levels without proper metabolism. The only cases I can think of where there would be high CO2 in suboptimal health is if somebody has the condition osteopetrosis or has some type of lung condition resulting in increased retention of CO2.

I've been drawn to this capnometer thing like a moth to a light, can't stop thinking about it! So i've bit the bullet and bought an EMMA.
Have you experimented yourself with a capnometer? Do you have any good resources on learning more about this device? Any ideas on the 'ideal' ETCO2 reading?

It seems that 'normal' ETCO2 values are:
30-43mmHg
4.0-5.7% kPA
4.0-5.6% (it seems this value corresponds to member 'visionofstrength' who stated that a 'miracle' occurred when he reached 6%... maybe he was unfairly shot down for this claim? he also quotes peat who says 5% to 6% is ideal)

'normal ETCO2 values --> based on this article: End Tidal CO2
He has a few youtube videos which I plan to look into as well.

From my understanding, the higher the reading the better (43 is more ideal comparatively to 30, which indicates more towards the side of hyperventilation / low metabolism / fall in temperature - aka bad stuff)


Artor and normalbreathing.com talks about capnometers here: EtCO2 (End-Tidal Carbon Dioxide) | Capnography Waveforms
He says they aren't accurate except when used to measure the co2 leaving something like a breathslim or frolov device, in which case they are accurate.
 

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I've been drawn to this capnometer thing like a moth to a light, can't stop thinking about it! So i've bit the bullet and bought an EMMA.
Have you experimented yourself with a capnometer? Do you have any good resources on learning more about this device? Any ideas on the 'ideal' ETCO2 reading?

It seems that 'normal' ETCO2 values are:
30-43mmHg
4.0-5.7% kPA
4.0-5.6% (it seems this value corresponds to member 'visionofstrength' who stated that a 'miracle' occurred when he reached 6%... maybe he was unfairly shot down for this claim? he also quotes peat who says 5% to 6% is ideal)

'normal ETCO2 values --> based on this article: End Tidal CO2
He has a few youtube videos which I plan to look into as well.

From my understanding, the higher the reading the better (43 is more ideal comparatively to 30, which indicates more towards the side of hyperventilation / low metabolism / fall in temperature - aka bad stuff)


Artor and normalbreathing.com talks about capnometers here: EtCO2 (End-Tidal Carbon Dioxide) | Capnography Waveforms
He says they aren't accurate except when used to measure the co2 leaving something like a breathslim or frolov device, in which case they are accurate.

I borrowed a medical one used in hospitals from a friend of mine who is a doctor. Used it a couple of times and it registered values in the 38-40 range. So, after doing it for a few weeks and it stayed in that range I lost interest. I don't want to become addicted to checking my CO2, but it would be nice to have on-demand access to one of these in case of emergency. I think the readings have to be used together with pulse/temps, otherwise it can be fooled simply by holding breath a bit longer (inadvertently) before blowing into the device.
 

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@haidut

Are you able to maintain the 38-40 value without holding your breath? In other words, can you simply inhale and exhale for some time and keep that value constant?
 

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