Gelatin & Glycine Supplementation

[Dr. Wanderfarr]

I see it recommended here & elsewhere that if one doesn't eat gelatin, the health benefits can be replicated by taking glycine. Yet, Peat says in certain articles that the anti-inflammatory aminos in gelatin are glycine, proline, & alanine. Why aren't all three ever recommended? Has there been recent research to indicate that the latter two are unnecessary?

 

[canadianboymike]

Good question. I’d like to know as well

 

[mostlylurking]

I see it recommended here & elsewhere that if one doesn't eat gelatin, the health benefits can be replicated by taking glycine. Yet, Peat says in certain articles that the anti-inflammatory aminos in gelatin are glycine, proline, & alanine. Why aren't all three ever recommended? Has there been recent research to indicate that the latter two are unnecessary?

Ray Peat was pretty consistent about recommending gelatin over glycine. I think that he considered eating gelatin to be safer than supplementing glycine. Something about possibly overdosing glycine?

Gelatin, stress, longevity

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[Dr. Wanderfarr]

"Some types of cell damage are prevented almost as well by alanine and proline as by glycine, so the use of gelatin, rather than glycine, is preferable, especially when the gelatin is associated with its normal biochemicals. For example, skin is a rich source of steroid hormones, and cartilage contains “Mead acid,” which is itself antiinflammatory."
"Although pure glycine has its place as a useful and remarkably safe drug, it shouldn't be thought of as a food, because manufactured products are always likely to contain peculiar contaminants."

True, but what if I don't react well to jello or broth or powders?...

 

[Tim Lundeen]

There are some cautions supplementing with proline, or even eating a very high proline diet.

A study confirms the relationship between an amino acid present in diet and depression
Toxicity of L-proline toward rat hippocampal neurons

A major issue with gelatin (over and above concerns with high proline intake) is that it is typically high fluoride. I haven't found any sources that test fluoride levels. Possibly gelatin from australian/new zealand 100% grass-fed beef might be ok...

I use Ajipure glycine and it seems to be fine in terms of toxicity, but I don't have long-term results

 

[Ismail]

is that it is typically high fluoride.

Where have you read or come across this information? Genuinely asking, thank you

 

[Tim Lundeen]

Where have you read or come across this information? Genuinely asking, thank you

FLUORIDE IN FOOD lists gelatin at 130-160mg/kg, or 130mcg-160mcg/gram, but that was from a 1977 source (reference in their web page, but I don't have the original). However, since anything made with fluoridated water concentrates it, our personal experience is that it is actually much higher.

Note that bone concentrates fluoride, so gelatin made from hooves/joints will be high F. Gelatin from organic animal-skin-only might be ok, if made with non-fluoridated water.

 

[Ismail]

FLUORIDE IN FOOD lists gelatin at 130-160mg/kg, or 130mcg-160mcg/gram, but that was from a 1977 source (reference in their web page, but I don't have the original). However, since anything made with fluoridated water concentrates it, our personal experience is that it is actually much higher.

Note that bone concentrates fluoride, so gelatin made from hooves/joints will be high F. Gelatin from organic animal-skin-only might be ok, if made with non-fluoridated water.

Very interesting, I did not know this, thank you.

 

[Dr. Wanderfarr]

Thanks for your replies. I too didn't know of the flouride issue. So far then, we have this -

The virtues of glycine include:
- free from high levels of flouride
- free from proline & it's neural toxicities

The virtues of gelatin powder:
- "...skin is a rich source of steroid hormones, and cartilage contains “Mead acid,” which is itself antiinflammatory."
- contains "peculiar contaminants" (not sure this is true anymore if using a quality product.)
- proline & it's cell damage prevention: "Some types of cell damage are prevented almost as well by alanine and proline as by glycine..." (this in itself isn't much of an argument since, if alanine & proline do almost as well for certain types of damage, this implies glycine does the most well for all types(?) - yet I'm sure Peat had a more nuanced point in mind here, & I wish he'd expounded a bit upon this detail.)

Is this last point why pure glycine is so widely recommended as a replacement? Because it prevents any cell damage that the other two prevent, and more? I'm trying to understand this completely. If anyone else has relevent info please share.

 

[akgrrrl]

Very interesting, I did not know this, thank you.

Be advised that fluoride can be in any "food" where water is used--- injected into chicken and turkey breasts, ham for weight (actually any meats) from fluoridated water FED to any animal raised for meat, their feed...and what about vegetables and fruit grown with water ...cumulative is something to consider along with your daily toothpaste.

 

[Ismail]

Be advised that fluoride can be in any "food" where water is used--- injected into chicken and turkey breasts, ham for weight (actually any meats) from fluoridated water FED to any animal raised for meat, their feed...and what about vegetables and fruit grown with water ...cumulative is something to consider along with your daily toothpaste.

Thank you for this. Bit hard to avoid fluoride it would seem, how can we counter this?

 

[Elie]

There are several post on the forum about some of the benefits of glycine (fatty liver, glycerin control) etc. Doses range from 5 to 15 grams if I recall correctly. So it could very well be the case that sufficient amounts of gelatin may be required to ensure sufficient amount of glycine.
I didn't read the study about possible ill effects of proline, but if indeed it needs to be limited than combing moderate amounts of gelatin with as much glycine as needed may be the way to go.