Feeding Cats The Peat Way!

[narouz]

a Corey Freeze on Ray Peat Fans
relayed this quote about dogs and their feeding:

"All the dogs I have known loved sweets, I suspect they would live longer if they had more." - Ray Peat

 

[Peata]

I'm interested in this, as my cat eats dry food from the store, and I want to feed her more Peaty. I'm not sure she will adjust to eating our food, but I can try. I gave her a small spoon of coconut oil last week and she ate most of it. The ants came and took what she didn't eat. She adores milk, and I give her a little from time to time. She supplements her diet with squirrel, birds, and whatever else she can catch.

She's getting older and sleeping even more than she used to, which was a lot. She still likes to play a little in the evenings. Her coat has always been a huge ordeal. She's a shorthair but sheds like crazy and yet has a hard time shedding all her winter coat in the summer. I notice her backside has a look to it lately that makes me think she might have a little degeneration. We don't know for sure how old she is, at least ten years old. I want her around as long as possible.

 

[Blossom]

I'm interested in this, as my cat eats dry food from the store, and I want to feed her more Peaty. I'm not sure she will adjust to eating our food, but I can try. I gave her a small spoon of coconut oil last week and she ate most of it. The ants came and took what she didn't eat. She adores milk, and I give her a little from time to time. She supplements her diet with squirrel, birds, and whatever else she can catch.

She's getting older and sleeping even more than she used to, which was a lot. She still likes to play a little in the evenings. Her coat has always been a huge ordeal. She's a shorthair but sheds like crazy and yet has a hard time shedding all her winter coat in the summer. I notice her backside has a look to it lately that makes me think she might have a little degeneration. We don't know for sure how old she is, at least ten years old. I want her around as long as possible.

Hmmmm... I ran out of cat food one evening and gave my cat a old can of octopus ( yuck). He was so happy and peaceful after that meal. He usually meows non stop like he is addicted to his dry cat food but finally seemed satisfied for once. I though about making homemade cat food after that experience. I used to work with a lady that made her dogs food instead of buying the store bought type. I'll be interested to hear how it goes with your cat and what foods seem to help. I wonder what is optimal for cats to eat?

 

[Stilgar]

I have looked into this quite a bit. My cats are plump and healthy on a Peatish diet. They wait at the foot of my bed every night for coconut oil when I open the jar to moisturise my skin! They get about a teaspoon a night. I changed their home-made meat diet recently to be more peaty and is now bone meal, ground meat/chunks (mostly beef, veal, lamb), eggshell, taurine, kelp, liver and kidneys. Kelp is the last weird thing left that I am not sure about. Nothing comes close to the satiation they get from a good home-made meal versus commercial pet food. I still add cod liver oil on occasion, because I am using it up (should probably just chuck it). One of my cats loves potatoes, and they both love cheese. They are just like you describe Blossom, noticeably happier, peaceful and less annoying after a more Peaty meal.

What is the deal with the 'linoleic acid is essential for cats' thing though? Is this a flawed theory based on lack of critique for the so called 'essential' omega 6 (and omega 3) fats? Additionally, it is often quoted that arachidonic acid is also essential for cats. Or is their physiology different? Can CLA in grass-fed meats account for most of the linoleic acid requirements that is spoken of? Or is in sufficient quantities in something else- skin, maybe? I always go back to thinking about the cats that just live off mice and do fine. It seems most important to ensure sufficient protein intake for optimal liver function, lack of stress (most importantly regular feeding) and not too high fat or carbohydrates, so as to avoid hepatic lipidosis.

The so-called 'impossibility' of determining good ratios of fats in a home-made diet that is readily spoken of seems unfounded to me- especially if PUFAs are not added and you match as closely as you can the ratios of a wild feline diet (any good recipe that takes this into account should be a good starting point). Cats have natural diet preferences and needs, but it isn't rocket science. I like this idea of following mice nutrient ratios in order to feed a similar diet - http://tcfeline.com/nutritional-analysis-of-mice/

However, their resultant formula contains whey protein and xantham gum, both questionable.

 

[Blossom]

That's so interesting! I'm going to definitely look into making cat food. Thanks for the link. When you mentioned arachidonic acid it came to mind that my cat really seems to want ham when someone at my house eats that- I believe that ham is a rich source of arachidonic acid. It might just be the protein he's attracted too though. Thanks Stilgar!

 

[LucyL]

One of my cats' favorite food was roast pork leftovers from the Mexican restaurant. It was really good stuff, though probably pretty high in PUFAs. Cats definitely have favorite foods, even among raw meat. Both of my current cats like chicken but one turns her nose up at rabbit. However, a little warm gelatinous broth will make anything edible

mypetcarnivore.com has a nice selection of raw meats/bones/organs and most of them are offered already ground which is very convenient for feeding cats. I no longer worry about ratios and "necessary" supplements. I try to give a variety of meats (though chicken is the staple because its cheap and convenient) and organs (including tripe) and make sure they get heart either ground up with their daily ration or the large portion of a weekly meal. Sometimes I'll dump a taurine capsule into their food, and add some eggshell powder or Vitamin E. For variety I feed eggs, cottage cheese, and for carbs, a little fruit, cooked veggies in coconut oil, oatmeal or rice. I do add gelatin, either the powdered Great Lakes or bone broth once a day. Every couple of weeks they'll get sardines packed in olive oil. That's a favorite too.

One kitty showed a slightly enlarged heart on an x-ray, so she gets CoQ10 everyday.

I should mention the cats hate tripe, I have to mix that in really well with their other food. The dog on the other hand, well, the stinkier the better

 

[milk]

I have already convinced my parents to stop eating PUFAs. They're eating a rather peaty diet at this point, didn't take a lot of adjusting, my mother has always cooked rather healthy food.

But their cats (one male, 12 years old, very neurotic; the other one female, a calico, 7 years old, seems more healthy mentally) are still eating PUFA-laden cat food.

For a brief period some years ago my mother fed them chicken liver, I think only the female ate it, she got noticeably stronger during this period.

Now they're both kind of fat, probably from PUFA-induced inflamation.

It would be nice if I could give my mother a basic outline of an ideal cat diet. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Blossom]

I’ve been making a homemade dog/cat food for the past couple of weeks. I use whatever leftover meat I have in the refrigerator (usually beef or chicken) and mix it with a smaller portion of cooked rice, eggshell calcium and collagen.
My cat and dog both sometimes still eat a little commercial dry food and my cat hunts mice.
I don’t know if it’s exactly optimal but it seems better for them than 100% store bought food and lower
PUFA.
I found a recipe online for homemade dog/cat food and based it from their recommendations. They recommend whole boiled eggs with the shells on mixed into the meat and rice. The yolks probably have some valuable nutrients that the food I’ve made so far is lacking by using only the shells. The recipe also called for adding some supplements but I’m on the fence about that at the moment. It also said you can use raw meat rather than cooked.

 

[Blossom]

@milk, here's a few cat food recipes you could share with your mom. Obviously I'd personally skip the added pufa oils.
https://cats.lovetoknow.com/Homemade_Cat_Food_Recipe

 

[Rick_F]

Raw meat is where it's at with cats. I've got one who's eaten raw since she was 8 weeks old (she was a rescue). Wouldn't touch the kibble that the SPCA gave but took to raw meat instantly. She's been to the vet exactly once (aside from when she was spayed) in her nearly ten years, for a dental issue. Both cats seem to prefer red meat (beef, buffalo etc) as their main food. The type we buy has bone and organ in it as well. Every now and then they get salmon, and love it for a few days then are ready to go back to the red meat. They also get dried or fresh chicken necks from time to time. They both love coconut oil and or butter every couple days as well. Sometimes they feel like cheese or nutritional yeast. Easy to tell when because they'll come running when we take it out or eat some ourselves. We have a wide variety of house plants and the cats will take nibbles from time to time, perhaps to address deficiencies. We keep catgrass around as it helps them with digestive issues. Very occasionally they'll have an appetite for fruit or carbs.

Just as we observe ourselves and our reactions to various foods to help improve our health, it helps to do the same with any animals in your care. They'll let you know what they like and what they don't, and what makes them feel good and what doesn't.

 

[milk]

@Blossom
@Rick_F

Thanks a lot.

 

[puella]

Just found Rad Cat raw food & the ingredients look the closest to how I would make it if I were to make my own cat food (minus the dulse powder & psyllium husk powder..honestly don't know enough about either to judge)

...JK it looks like the FDA shut them down w/ some very shady tactics. Anyone here use Rad Cat before they were shutdown & how was your experience? It seems there is a small chance they might make a comeback.

Ingredients of Free Range Chicken:
Chicken thigh and leg meat, chicken heart, chicken liver, gelatin, water (sufficient for dry ingredient hydration), organic dried egg yolk, organic dulse powder, egg shell powder, organic psyllium husk powder, vitamin E supplement, manganese gluconate.

 

[Evolutionarily]

FWIW those of you looking to give your cat the best diet a practice I stumbled upon recently is feeding your cats whole mice, and even rats!

In most places it's quite easy to get the whole spectrum of frozen mice and rats, from little few day old hairless babies all the way to full grown, because this is the food people feed their snakes and other reptiles.

Might take a little work to convince your cat to eat it, including cutting them up to expose the blood and organs to help the cat realise it's food, but I can't think of a better baseline food for your cat to then supplement with other foods like raw meat, bones, organs etc.

 

[LucyL]

FWIW those of you looking to give your cat the best diet a practice I stumbled upon recently is feeding your cats whole mice, and even rats!

In most places it's quite easy to get the whole spectrum of frozen mice and rats, from little few day old hairless babies all the way to full grown, because this is the food people feed their snakes and other reptiles.

Might take a little work to convince your cat to eat it, including cutting them up to expose the blood and organs to help the cat realise it's food, but I can't think of a better baseline food for your cat to then supplement with other foods like raw meat, bones, organs etc.

But what are those mice fed? GMO grains? Raise your own mice? This used to be the "thing" among "natural" cat breeders some years back....

 

[Sugartits]

I tried doing whole prey, I got some frozen feeder goldfish. They got swatted under the fridge. I think it works best if you introduce stuff like that to kittens.

I am crazy about my cat Alfie, but now that I know that cats need raw meat in order to stay in good health, I may not choose to own another cat.

When I worked at a vet it always amazed be how most cats seem to end up either diabetic or in kidney failure. I found out it was from the dry carbohydrate based kibble they ate, that's when I started feeding a my cat a raw diet.

Alfie is so much healthier since the switch, he never gets chin acne anymore, but it has been much more complicated than the kibble, and he likes to vomit raw meat on the carpet or furniture. He has long hair, so hairballs are a big hobby of his.

My pit bull Friday is lower maintenance. Dogs are scavengers, so they don't have such specific needs. I fill the crockpot with meat, rice and veggies, and that makes an entire weeks worth of food for her. She never claws the furniture, either. Dogs grow out of their destructive phase, cats seem to keep it up their whole lives.

 

[Evolutionarily]

But what are those mice fed? GMO grains? Raise your own mice? This used to be the "thing" among "natural" cat breeders some years back....

That is a fair consideration, I guess I could find out. In any event, a takeaway I have from Ray is that biology is the ultimate filter, this is the reason why he doesn't like the vast majority of supplements due to impurities, but by definition anything that comes from an animal is much more pure. So for example Ray advises to go on taste for milk, rather than its origin like grass-fed. If it's grass-fed and organic then great, but you're better of drinking normal average quality milk that tastes good than grass-fed milk than doesn't.

Also I think one must always consider tradeoffs, it's not perfectly raised mice versus suboptimal, it's suboptimal versus suboptimal (store bought meat drained of blood, incorrect ratios of amino acids and minerals, supplements with impurities, etc).