A Greens Or Greens&meat Peat Diet Variation

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
An oversimplification, but...
I've been wanting to explore this more carefully.
In at least a couple of Peat interviews,
including the a recent one...was it KMUD?...,
Peat described a greens-based, healthy, seemingly Peatian diet.
In the other interview he briefly referred to a healthy diet
eaten by some "indians"
which was centered on greens and meat.

In the latter case,
the high calcium content of the greens
balanced the high phospate content of the meat.

In the former instance,
Peat--very surprisingly to me--
said that greens supply as much protein as milk,
but that greens protein was "diluted by the cellulose."
He also said the greens protein quality was very high,
just as high as (I think it was) milk's protein.

He said something like "if one can skim off the harmful things...." about greens,
after cooking.
I'm not quite sure what he might've meant there.
PUFA?
I guess greens would have significant PUFA and
PUFA being a fat
I guess they would float after refrigeration of the broth.

Well that brings up another question I had, about broth.
I was unclear about whether Peat had in mind
eating just the broth,
or also eating the cooked greens...?
He did say the protein was "diluted" by the cellulose.
That might mean he was talking about needing to eat the greens
to also get at the diluted protein...?

And that in turn raises a question about cellulose.
Peat has said cellulose is probably the least harmful kind of fiber.
Presumably it would be rendered less harmful by cooking.
I wonder how long?
(if it is the case that consuming the greens is the way to go.)

And then there is the question of goitrogenicity.
Especially for us hypothyroid people.
Aren't greens goitrogenic?
If so, does cooking negate that?
How much cooking?
 

Jennifer

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
4,635
Location
USA
I've been thinking about this too since seeing it. Since I can't have dairy right now, I thought a green broth could work as a replacement.

I'm curious if the protein is trapped in/bound to the cellulose fiber of greens and when you cook them, this breaks down the cellulose releasing the protein along with the vitamins and minerals. So basically like juicing potatoes to make potato protein soup in which the fiber and starch are left behind, but you get the keto acids in the juice portion?

Narouz, you don't tolerate dairy?
 
OP
N

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Jennifer said:
I've been thinking about this too since seeing it. Since I can't have dairy right now, I thought a green broth could work as a replacement.

I'm curious if the protein is trapped in/bound to the cellulose fiber of greens and when you cook them, this breaks down the cellulose releasing the protein along with the vitamins and minerals. So basically like juicing potatoes to make potato protein soup in which the fiber and starch are left behind, but you get the keto acids in the juice portion?

Narouz, you don't tolerate dairy?

Jennifer-
I seem to do fine with milk and dairy.
I am curious about the greens thing
mostly I guess because of wanting more diversity.
And I like greens a lot.

Like you, I'm not clear about the details:
where the protein is, fiber, PUFA, goitrogenicity, etc....
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,075
Cook them to death is what I remember reading. I suppose it means when they are cooked long enough to easily chew and digest? This was how my mother cooked her spinach and broccoli. The veggies were very soft and mushy.

I happen to be cooking collards to death today. My dilemma is whether to add the much need pork fat.
 

Jennifer

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
4,635
Location
USA
narouz said:
Jennifer said:
I've been thinking about this too since seeing it. Since I can't have dairy right now, I thought a green broth could work as a replacement.

I'm curious if the protein is trapped in/bound to the cellulose fiber of greens and when you cook them, this breaks down the cellulose releasing the protein along with the vitamins and minerals. So basically like juicing potatoes to make potato protein soup in which the fiber and starch are left behind, but you get the keto acids in the juice portion?

Narouz, you don't tolerate dairy?

Jennifer-
I seem to do fine with milk and dairy.
I am curious about the greens thing
mostly I guess because of wanting more diversity.
And I like greens a lot.

Like you, I'm not clear about the details:
where the protein is, fiber, PUFA, goitrogenicity, etc....

As far as PUFA goes, I know Ray has mentioned having kale broth weekly so I wouldn't worry about it. You'd have to be having a pretty substantial amounts of greens for it to really add up I would think. As for the giotrogens, cooking should deactivate them. Tara made a recent post asking about green veggies and how to cook them to gain the most nutrients from them while removing anti-nutrients.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5527
 

Spondive

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
357
Yes. I am of Greek by blood and my grandparents always cooked greens and vegetables very long until mushy..interesting stuff
 
OP
N

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
HDD said:
Cook them to death is what I remember reading. I suppose it means when they are cooked long enough to easily chew and digest? This was how my mother cooked her spinach and broccoli. The veggies were very soft and mushy.

I happen to be cooking collards to death today. My dilemma is whether to add the much need pork fat.

HDD-
It gets confusing
because I heard Peat in an interview say,
when talking about getting minerals from greens,
that the greens could be cooked very quickly.

But he wasn't talking about protein there.
That was what was so surprising to me,
that greens have about as much protein a milk,
and of as high a quality.

Yes...the pork fat.
I don't have to have it.
But one option might be to throw in some bacon or ham hocks,
refrigerate,
then skim off the fat--
hopefully leaving the pork flavor....
 
OP
N

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Jennifer said:
As far as PUFA goes, I know Ray has mentioned having kale broth weekly so I wouldn't worry about it. You'd have to be having a pretty substantial amounts of greens for it to really add up I would think. As for the giotrogens, cooking should deactivate them. Tara made a recent post asking about green veggies and how to cook them to gain the most nutrients from them while removing anti-nutrients.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5527

Thanks, Jennifer, I'll check tara's thread.
Peat did talk about, in that recent interview (KMUD?),
about the need to "skim off" some bad stuff.
He didn't specify what it was.

I am scared of PUFA,
so I don't take it lightly.
Same with goitrogens, since I'm hypo.
 
OP
N

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Spondive said:
Yes. I am of Greek by blood and my grandparents always cooked greens and vegetables very long until mushy..interesting stuff

Spongdive-
Hmm...that's interesting, kinda unexpected.
My favorite restaurant used to be this Italian place,
but it wasn't your usual Italian.
(I'm thinking there's a Greek vibration--proximity.)

They served this great squid with arugula.
And also greens.
Like broccoli rabe.
It seemed to have been quickly fried--very firm. Tasted great!)

So I've always imagined the Greeks and Italians
as having rustic recipes
including crisply cooked greens....
 

Dutchie

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,413
On New Year's day I had wild spinach stirfried/sauteed with ground beef,for the first time in a long while....and it did wonders for me.(My stomach felt defenitely less bloated afterwards and I felt nice&warm)
So,greens are defenitely ok in my book.

Back in my VLC Paleo period,leafy greens&broccoli were basically the only 'carbs' I ate and I didn't suffer any calcium shortage despite eating any dairy. So,I think they're indeed a good source of calcium. I read in an article that leafy greens,especially kale,have one of the quickest readily available absorption rates of calcium.
 
OP
N

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Dutchie said:
On New Year's day I had wild spinach stirfried/sauteed with ground beef,for the first time in a long while....and it did wonders for me.(My stomach felt defenitely less bloated afterwards and I felt nice&warm)
So,greens are defenitely ok in my book.

Back in my VLC Paleo period,leafy greens&broccoli were basically the only 'carbs' I ate and I didn't suffer any calcium shortage despite eating any dairy. So,I think they're indeed a good source of calcium. I read in an article that leafy greens,especially kale,have one of the quickest readily available absorption rates of calcium.

Yeah, Dutchie.
I had many VLC kale and broccoli episodes too!
Have to say those foods are delicious to me.
That's interesting about the calcium and the warmth you got from spinach.
Are you hypothyroid?
 
OP
N

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Zachs said:
Greens and meat almost killed me, literally. Never again!

Well...the low-carb version?
There you would eat a lot of meat
and the greens would be raw or lightly cooked
and you wouldn't drink the greens stock.

Yeah...that kind of diet was bad for me too.
But the Peat variation is a lot different.
I would think the meat part would be pretty minor.
The greens probably well cooked.
And you'd consume the stock.

And of course there would be more to this Peat variation....
 

Zachs

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
593
So what would the peat variation be? Personally with lots of experimentation and research. I see no redeaming qualities in greens, they simply dont seem to be something that we are meant ro eat. The great amount of defense mechanisms plants evolve should be a clear indicator. Yes, cooking negates some of these but not all. Im not sure which greens you are talking about but the cruciferous family contain a lot of goitergens and oxalates, both of which i believe get concentrated in the water when boiled, so watch out for that if drinking a lot of broth.

As for meat, its defenitely a decent source of minerals and b vitamins but the high amount of phosphorus, inflammatory aminos and AA can become a problem. Depends on the cuts i suppose but i never found the stomach to try ox tail, tongue or offal.
 

Spondive

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
357
Narouz... It is funny because before Peat I thought the way my Greek family over cooked vegetables was unhealthy and devoid of nutrients. I used to steam vegetables very lightly and I thought they were terribly UN appetizing. Now I'm back to long cooking vegetables with fat and salt
 

Spondive

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
357
Also my family would cook dandelion greens for hours otherwise they would be so bitter and poisonous tasting
 

Zachs

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
593
Spondive said:
Narouz... It is funny because before Peat I thought the way my Greek family over cooked vegetables was unhealthy and devoid of nutrients. I used to steam vegetables very lightly and I thought they were terribly UN appetizing. Now I'm back to long cooking vegetables with fat and salt

Im pretty sure that they are pretty low in nutrients when cooked for a long time. You basically eating salty, fatty, cellulose.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,370
I think his point was something like "you need ten pounds a day and four stomachs so milk is better".
 

Spondive

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
357
I agree with you both, but I thought it was interesting that Peat talked about when higher quality food is not available these cultures knew they had to do something to make these foods digestible and palatable
 

Dutchie

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,413
narouz said:
Dutchie said:
On New Year's day I had wild spinach stirfried/sauteed with ground beef,for the first time in a long while....and it did wonders for me.(My stomach felt defenitely less bloated afterwards and I felt nice&warm)
So,greens are defenitely ok in my book.

Back in my VLC Paleo period,leafy greens&broccoli were basically the only 'carbs' I ate and I didn't suffer any calcium shortage despite eating any dairy. So,I think they're indeed a good source of calcium. I read in an article that leafy greens,especially kale,have one of the quickest readily available absorption rates of calcium.

Yeah, Dutchie.
I had many VLC kale and broccoli episodes too!
Have to say those foods are delicious to me.
That's interesting about the calcium and the warmth you got from spinach.
Are you hypothyroid?

Hi Narouz,

There are some features that I have (on&off) that are related to hypothyroidism,however a lot of symptoms can also be subscribed to other things so who knows.
I have actually noticed that when I suffer from supposedly hypothyroid symptoms,that sometimes foods,such as the spinach&broccoli, that are advised as a no-go for hypothyroidism actually benefit me and reverse or at lease lessen the symptoms.
I know some Peat followers mention that getting thyroid up is the most important,but from these experiences I'm starting to question that validity myself. I think there are a lot more functions that are important,such as adrenal and liver health,and it seems that one of these not functioning correctly actually decrease thyroid function no matter how strictly you eat a pro-thyroid diet.
For instance broccoli contains a compound that figths estrogen dominance,so I'm thinking for me not suffering from estrogen dominance is a very important factor in not showing signs of hypothyroidism.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom