Disrupted sleep due to high REM sleep vs low Deep sleep

[faxmulder]

Hi folks,

Since some time, I'm having this issue.
I'm not having nightmares, but vivid dreams that cause many "micro-wakeups" during the night.

I'm not really waking up (and I have no problems in falling asleep) but my deep sleep is affected and I get too much REM sleep. Fitbit seems to confirm this.

Is there any supplement/herb that could help with this specific issue?

I have a theory that maybe the cause could be too much acetylcholine.
However, that would be odd, since I'm taking an anti-histamine daily (for an autoimmune skin disease), and AFAIK antihistamines lower acetylcholine.
Or maybe daily antihistamine's usage lowered serotonin too much? I know that serotonin is bad, but I'm wondering if it's important for deep sleep.

Another theory is that it could be caused by some kind of brain inflammation, since in the past, when I took Ibuprofen before sleep (for other reasons), my sleep seemed to improve. But maybe it was just a coincidence.

Thoughts?
Thanks!

 

[Warrior]

Try 3g of Vitamin C instead of the ibuprofen. You should get the same results without the irritation.

 

[redsun]

Hi folks,

Since some time, I'm having this issue.
I'm not having nightmares, but vivid dreams that cause many "micro-wakeups" during the night.

I'm not really waking up (and I have no problems in falling asleep) but my deep sleep is affected and I get too much REM sleep. Fitbit seems to confirm this.

Is there any supplement/herb that could help with this specific issue?

I have a theory that maybe the cause could be too much acetylcholine.
However, that would be odd, since I'm taking an anti-histamine daily (for an autoimmune skin disease), and AFAIK antihistamines lower acetylcholine.
Or maybe daily antihistamine's usage lowered serotonin too much? I know that serotonin is bad, but I'm wondering if it's important for deep sleep.

Another theory is that it could be caused by some kind of brain inflammation, since in the past, when I took Ibuprofen before sleep (for other reasons), my sleep seemed to improve. But maybe it was just a coincidence.

Thoughts?
Thanks!

Its probably the antihistamine itself causing your sleep fragmentation and increased REM:

HISTAMINE IN THE REGULATION OF WAKEFULNESS

The histaminergic system is exclusively localized within the posterior hypothalamus with projection to almost all the major regions of the central nervous system. Strong and consistent evidence exist to suggest that histamine, acting via H[1] and/or ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The histamine deficient HDC KO mice displayed sleep fragmentation and increased REM sleep during the light period along with profound wakefulness deficit at dark onset, and in novel environment. Similar results were obtained when histamine neurons were lesioned. These studies strongly implicate the histaminergic neurons of the TMN to play a critical role in the maintenance of high vigilance state during wakefulness"

When they made mice unable to synthesize histamine, it caused sleep fragmentation and they had more REM.

Mechanism could be reduced H3 receptor activity since antihistamines also block H3 receptors which would lead to increased acetylcholine release. High glutamate activity due to stress or reduced ATP production can also contribute to more REM since glutamate receptors are what trigger REM. Could also be due to increased cholinergic sensitivity due to chronic anticholinergic effects of the antihistamine. If the vivid dreams issue started only after using the antihistamine then I would definitely say its because of the effects of the antihistamine.