Collagen/gelatin nasty side-effects!

[OLLNX]

I suspect this topic has been discussed previously. However, I could not find any discussion directly related to this particular issue.
Terrible side-effects to collagen/gelatin supplements, such as intense headaches, soft/loose stool, bloating, inflamed turbinates (nasal congestion) in the morning, aggression. Tried: Great Lakes beef gelatin/collagen hydrolysate, well-cooked chicken feet/oxtail gelatin broth. Same side-effects.
Any suggestions on how to overcome/neutralize those nasty side-effects will be very much appreciated.

 

[Ecureuil77]

I suspect this topic has been discussed previously. However, I could not find any discussion directly related to this particular issue.
Terrible side-effects to collagen/gelatin supplements, such as intense headaches, soft/loose stool, bloating, inflamed turbinates (nasal congestion) in the morning, aggression. Tried: Great Lakes beef gelatin/collagen hydrolysate, well-cooked chicken feet/oxtail gelatin broth. Same side-effects.
Any suggestions on how to overcome/neutralize those nasty side-effects will be very much appreciated.

In some people, the amino acids in collagen/gelatin are endogenously converted to oxalate and hence the side effects you're experiencing could come from that.
I personally am very sensitive to oxalates and cannot drink bone broth or anything that contains glycine, proline and co.
I'm afraid I've no idea how to counteract this. For me the only solution is avoidance.

Now that I think of it, it could also be a histamine sensitivity, as this is very high in those foods.

Hopefully somebody else will chime in with more advice.

 

[Deadpool]

I've got the same problem and can't tolerate glycine, collagen, gelatin or anything with glycinates.

There are multiple reasons people have trouble with these. Like the above poster said, glycine can somehow increase your body's own endogenous oxalate production especially if you lack minerals and nutrients.

It also increases ammonia in some individuals, me included, this would create all the side effects you mentioned.

If you struggle with digestion in general, have low stomach acid, bacterial overgrowth, SIBO, etc, you will have a hard time breaking down the gelatin and it could increase serotonin tremendously in my experience, worsening indigestion further.

Another big thing is that gelatin has lots of glycine which is interacting with the NMDA pathways. Now I don't know the whole mechanism behind it because it is complex, but it can increase glutamate activity and lead to excitotoxicity. Chris Masterjohn has a couple videos on the topic and it has something to do with ATP production and extracellular chloride levels to determine wether or not glycine can be inhibitory or excitatory.

If I were you, I would stop messing with collagen/gelatin and isolated aminos like glycine and focus on getting your nutrition from whole foods that you can digest. I've tried it multiple times and always landed flat on my ****, ruining weeks of progress, but at the end of the day, think, perceive, act still applies.

You might also consider using b vitamins like biotin to reduce ammonia, and thiamine to increase stomach acid production.

 

[food fortunato]

I can only tolerate short-cooked bone broth that is simmered, and not boiled. The long-cooked (24 hours) broth is higher in minerals, and lower in collagen. Short-cooked broth is lower in minerals, higher in collagen. I would look into whether or not the cooking time is the problem first. Also, boiling changes the structure of the broth.. simmer only!

I don’t know how long great lakes cooks their broth. And you did say that yours was “well-cooked.”

Simmering times for short-cooked broth:
Meat broth: 3 hours
Poultry: 1.5-2 hours
Fish: 1-1.5 hours

 

[OLLNX]

I can only tolerate short-cooked bone broth that is simmered, and not boiled. The long-cooked (24 hours) broth is higher in minerals, and lower in collagen. Short-cooked broth is lower in minerals, higher in collagen. I would look into whether or not the cooking time is the problem first. Also, boiling changes the structure of the broth.. simmer only!

I don’t know how long great lakes cooks their broth. And you did say that yours was “well-cooked.”

Simmering times for short-cooked broth:
Meat broth: 3 hours
Poultry: 1.5-2 hours
Fish: 1-1.5 hours

I use pressure cooker. Do you think it could be an issue? For instance, I tried to cook oxtail for 1.45 hours on low pressure. Thanks!

 

[baron]

Taking it with taurine at night, I experience disturbing paralysis sensations in my dreams. I once dreamt of being on the internet, clicking links and with each click I got an electrical buzz feeling in my brain that left me paralyzed for a couple of seconds until it dissipated.

 

[food fortunato]

I use pressure cooker. Do you think it could be an issue? For instance, I tried to cook oxtail for 1.45 hours on low pressure. Thanks!

This question was asked of Dr. Natasha Campbell Mcbride (GAPS Diet): “What are your thoughts about using an old-fashioned pressure cooker to expedite preparation of meat stocks?“

Dr. Natasha's answer: “I don’t recommend pressure cooker, as it destroys food to a degree. It is better to cook food slowly on lower heat.”

 

[Dutchie]

This question was asked of Dr. Natasha Campbell Mcbride (GAPS Diet): “What are your thoughts about using an old-fashioned pressure cooker to expedite preparation of meat stocks?“

Dr. Natasha's answer: “I don’t recommend pressure cooker, as it destroys food to a degree. It is better to cook food slowly on lower heat.”

The longer cooking does raise histamines.
So, one would have to pick their battles in regards to cooking methods and times.

 

[food fortunato]

The longer cooking does raise histamines.
So, one would have to pick their battles in regards to cooking methods and times.

I’m pretty sure i react to histamines.. bc i can’t tolerate 99% of fermented foods (including home ferments).. but i tolerate short-cooked broth just fine. It even gives me good energy.
I’m just saying that maybe it’s cooking procedure(s) instead of having problems with collegen/gelatin.. which is such in my case. I basically react the same way as OLLNX to powders and (potentially) improper cooking methods.

 

[OLLNX]

I’m pretty sure i react to histamines.. bc i can’t tolerate 99% of fermented foods (including home ferments).. but i tolerate short-cooked broth just fine. It even gives me good energy.
I’m just saying that maybe it’s cooking procedure(s) instead of having problems with collegen/gelatin.. which is such in my case. I basically react the same way as OLLNX to powders and (potentially) improper cooking methods.

Interesting. So, what would you suggest minimum cooking time for say something like oxtail?

 

[food fortunato]

Simmering times for short-cooked broth:
Meat broth: 3 hours
Poultry: 1.5-2 hours
Fish: 1-1.5 hours

Oxtail is ‘meat’ so 3 hours