Choline Associated Hypersexuality In A 79-year-old Man

[Lokzo]

Choline associated hypersexuality in a 79-year-old man. - PubMed - NCBI

I found this highly amusing!

Has anyone responded well to the various choline variants out there?
CDP-Choline, Alpha GPC etc.

 

[DaveFoster]

I gave alpha GPC and ashwagandha to a friend, and he suffered from an extreme, uncontrollable surge in his libido. Cholinergic drugs in general can cause irritability and aggressive sexual impulses.

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

don't mind me as I'm discreetly ordering some for my GF

 

[Spondive]

don't mind me as I'm discreetly ordering some for my GF

Lol

 

[Lokzo]

I gave alpha GPC and ashwagandha to a friend, and he suffered from an extreme, uncontrollable surge in his libido. Cholinergic drugs in general can cause irritability and aggressive sexual impulses.

That is crazy.

I will get a few friends to experiment with this (including myself).

Any idea the mechanisms/pathway behind the irritability/aggressive sexual impulses?

 

[Lokzo]

don't mind me as I'm discreetly ordering some for my GF

Haha!!

Please report back how that experiment goes (In G-rated detail)

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

oral choline supplementation (i.e., cho- line alphoscerate, a precursor of the phosphatidylcholine) was prescribed at a dosage of 1200 mg/day.
After 6 weeks of regular choline ingestion, the patient showed a significant increase in libido with sexual urges, even in inap- propriate places. His wife, a healthy 70-year-old woman, said that her husband had unexpectedly changed his sexual behavior: they usually had regular sexual intercourse no more than once a month, but, in the last weeks, he wanted to engage her in sexual activity at least three times a day and often asked her for oral sex.
Moreover, the patient was very annoyed and nervous when his wife refused sexual contacts; thus, he started masturbating ‘‘to alleviate his psychological discomfort.’’
Interestingly, while on choline, the patient and his wife reported a significant improvement in erectile function. Because of this abnormal sexual behavior, choline was withdrawn and hypersexuality receded after about 5 days.
Before choline discontinuation, the patient’s sex hormone levels, including total (7 ng/ml) and free testosterone (0.14 ng/ ml), were within the normal range. Intriguingly, since the patient was ‘‘proud’’ of his sexual potency while on choline, he spontaneously and secretively ingested oral choline for about another month with a consequent hypersexuality.
The patient resumed his ‘‘normal’’ sexual behavior after complete withdrawal of choline intake.

What a story. Note that 1200mg alpha GPC is about 500mg of choline or ~4 eggs per day (I don’t eat lots of meat), but those eggs are a good amount of arachidonic acid. Plus I’m not not too sure about dietary choline crossing the brain blood barrier

 

[DaveFoster]

That is crazy.

I will get a few friends to experiment with this (including myself).

Any idea the mechanisms/pathway behind the irritability/aggressive sexual impulses?

The actions of the hormone estrogen tie in very closely with the cholinergic system, where both tend to depress metabolism. Estrogen can cause hypersexuality and aggression, and activation of the cholinergic system increases the activity of estrogen. Acetylcholine itself can cause many of the textbook symptoms of the "fight-or-flight" response; it decreases the appetite and promotes a state of intense focus and feelings of capability, themselves supportive of the quest for food. Under the influence of acetylcholine, the salivary glands secrete saliva in preparation for a meal. Blockade of cholinergic receptors significantly increases the appetite.

Histamine has many overlapping effects with estrogen, where histamine in particular increases wakefulness. For example, the drug "modafinil" treats narcolepsy, or excessive daytime sleepiness, and it has a histamine-like effect; it often causes an allergic reaction, specifically a rash as a side effect. Estrogen, acetylcholine and histamine all promote aggression, focus and wakefulness respectively, all components of a "type A" workaholic personality, and itself an archetype idealized in the West.

 

[Anders86]

Supplementing Choline seem to make people vulnerable to depression. There are tons of anecdotes in the nootropic communities of people experiences good effect at first but then experiencing anger and depression. I personally experienced this with Alpha GPC, CDP Choline and DMAE and I have MTHFR(more need of choline). I was on a Leangains diet, not optimal diet. I guess dose make the "poison", but I never did big dosages.

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

if you had a deficiency, and supplementing addressed the problem, then it makes sense that going overboard isn't going to help at all

"more is less" should be a mantra when it comes to supplements

 

[Anders86]

if you had a deficiency, and supplementing addressed the problem, then it makes sense that going overboard isn't going to help at all

"more is less" should be a mantra when it comes to supplements

There is also direct sideeffects with choline supplementation as Tmao production.

I was taking dosages lower than recomended.

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

recommended doses are usually bunk and excessive so that you end up buying more and more often

maybe you didn't have a need for acetylcholine in the first place, or very minimal

 

[Anders86]

recommended doses are usually bunk and excessive so that you end up buying more and more often

maybe you didn't have a need for acetylcholine in the first place, or very minimal

I just Examine.com as dosing source.

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

yeah well Examine, that's the typical one-size-fit-all website.

Tapering off the supplement when you don't feel the good effects anymore is paramount. I'm a pharmacist and people never listen when I say that their beloved pill from Amazon has cumulative effects over time, far more often than not, and that requires a degree of body awareness meaning cycling on and off is needed. I see this all the time with people who self medicate OTC. Even worse on forums when people self medicate nootropics, or much more potent pharmaceuticals and then blame Big Industry for the side effects. Granted, the recommended doses are insane for most people who "just want to feel better". This society is stuck in a never ending quest for the magic pill and then people are unhappy when stuff goes wrong.

Anyone who pops pills MUST listen to their body and zoom out before making conclusions. The appeal to authority involving other "forum people" is unfortunately insufficient - always assume that people don't know what they're doing, and would much rather blame it on some bogeyman. The icing on the cake being steroid/hormone users who would never ever double check their own behavior.

 

[Anders86]

yeah well Examine, that's the typical one-size-fit-all website.

Tapering off the supplement when you don't feel the good effects anymore is paramount. I'm a pharmacist and people never listen when I say that their beloved pill from Amazon has cumulative effects over time, far more often than not, and that requires a degree of body awareness meaning cycling on and off is needed. I see this all the time with people who self medicate OTC. Even worse on forums when people self medicate nootropics, or much more potent pharmaceuticals and then blame Big Industry for the side effects. Granted, the recommended doses are insane for most people who "just want to feel better". This society is stuck in a never ending quest for the magic pill and then people are unhappy when stuff goes wrong.

Anyone who pops pills MUST listen to their body and zoom out before making conclusions. The appeal to authority involving other "forum people" is unfortunately insufficient - always assume that people don't know what they're doing, and would much rather blame it on some bogeyman. The icing on the cake being steroid/hormone users who would never ever double check their own behavior.

I see what you mean and I`m usually the careful one. Choline is a daily required nutrient, making it a bit more "careless" supplement compared to a steroid/hormone. I think we are saying the same thing though, that it is a supplement to take seriously. But even though it is a supplement to take seriously it is also a supplement with side effects. TMAO production, raises HGH, lipolysis and iron absorption. And there are probably more.

 

[hei]

I experienced this when I used Huperzine A (acetylcholinesterase inhibitor) for a week or so and 300mg Alpha-GPC (it was 1 capsule) on some of the days. At the start I just had strange dreams and broken sleep (pretty normal for me but I thought it might settle down), but things worsened until I was up all night with uncontrollable urges that couldn't be gotten rid of.

 

[PeatReader]

That is crazy.

I will get a few friends to experiment with this (including myself).

Any idea the mechanisms/pathway behind the irritability/aggressive sexual impulses?

@Lokzo did you ever try this with choline? If so, which form and what was the result?

 

[Lokzo]

@Lokzo did you ever try this with choline? If so, which form and what was the result?

Oh yessss

I have used CDP choline on and off for 5 years now.

Currently developing a nootropic masterclass as we speak.

I initially noticed a huge spike in libido, but it tends to fade. You need to cycle it.

 

[PeatReader]

You need to cycle it.

Like a week on/ a week off? Or what kind of schedule are you talking about?

 

[Lokzo]

Like a week on/ a week off? Or what kind of schedule are you talking about?

2 days per week.

Split.