• @Blossom Is A Blessing To This Community, Let Us Be A Blessing To Her
    Click Here For More Information
  • Due to excessive bot signups along with nefarious actors we are limiting forum registration. Keep checking back for the register link to appear. Please do not send emails or have someone post to the forum asking for a signup link. Until the current climate changes we do not see a change of this policy. To join the forum you must have a compelling reason. Letting us know what skills/knowledge you will bring to the community along with the intent of your stay here will help in getting you approved.

Fructose Exacerbates Hepatocellular Injury In Methionine-Choline Deficient Diets

_lppaiva

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
114
Dietary fructose exacerbates hepatocellular injury when incorporated into a methionine-choline-deficient diet. - PubMed - NCBI

Being that most here are a fan of longevity, I think the general recommendation is to avoid methionine. I think this study is really important for anyone who relies heavily on fruit and sugar, being most of us here.

I am not sure, however, if "depleation" of methionine by glycine has the same effect. Perhaps a diet "high" (with enough) methionine and an optimal ratio of glycine (and also the other non inflammatory aminoacids) might be the best of both worlds?

"Mice fed MCD formulas developed similar degrees of hepatic steatosis whether they contained glucose or fructose. By contrast, mice fed MCD-fructose developed significantly more hepatocellular injury than mice fed MCD-glucose, judged by histology, apoptosis staining and serum alanine aminotransferase. Liver injury in MCD-fructose mice coincided with an exaggerated rise in the ratio of long-chain saturated to unsaturated fatty acids in the liver. Notably, hepatic inflammation was not enhanced in mice fed MCD-fructose, correlating instead with hepatic lipid peroxidation, which was equivalent in the two MCD groups."

This kinda of bugged me out though:

"The data suggest the enhanced cytotoxicity of fructose in the MCD model is related to its ability to stimulate de novo lipogenesis, which yields harmful long-chain saturated fatty acids."

Wouldn't that be palmitic acid, which haidut has shown is protective?
 

ExCarniv

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
479
Looking at Chronometer my ratio of Methionine:Glycine is like 1:4 so I'm not worrying to much.

Other ratio is Pufa:SatFat and is almost 1:8.
 

Samurai Peat

New Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
3
I think it's just the choline deficiency alone that's causing this. Choline and vit A and thyorid are required to make cholesterol and for steroidogenesis (pregnenalone and progesterone and testosterone and all that). I don't think methionine deficiency is a bad thing.
 

ExCarniv

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
479
I think it's just the choline deficiency alone that's causing this. Choline and vit A and thyorid are required to make cholesterol and for steroidogenesis (pregnenalone and progesterone and testosterone and all that). I don't think methionine deficiency is a bad thing.


And I don't think having 2-3g per day is bad either if you have 2-3x Glycine to balance.
 

_lppaiva

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
114
And I don't think having 2-3g per day is bad either if you have 2-3x Glycine to balance.

I am not sure how glycine consumption affects methionine status aka is there a difference between methionine deficiency and high glycine to methionine ratio? It is my understanding that methionine depletes glycine, not the other way around, so indeed perhaps having optimal glycine intake while also having proper methionine intake is better.

I don't think methionine deficiency is a bad thing

Also, it is my understanding that regarding proteins,t importance is on ratios rather than specific amounts. Balancing methionine and cystine with gelatin and tryptophan with BCAA's and other aminoacids helps combat their downsides, but I am still looking it up.
 

ExCarniv

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
479
I am not sure how glycine consumption affects methionine status aka is there a difference between methionine deficiency and high glycine to methionine ratio? It is my understanding that methionine depletes glycine, not the other way around, so indeed perhaps having optimal glycine intake while also having proper methionine intake is better.



Also, it is my understanding that regarding proteins,t importance is on ratios rather than specific amounts. Balancing methionine and cystine with gelatin and tryptophan with BCAA's and other aminoacids helps combat their downsides, but I am still looking it up.

For every gram of Methionine you need 2g of Glycine approximately I think that's what Chris Masterjohn said about balancing aminoacids.

Most cuts of meat have a ratio of 1:2 of Methionine:Glycine, a couple extra grams from Gelatin is enough imo.
 

Angel45

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
92
I only eat the yolks of the eggs so I can cut the PUFA in half. I have to eat extra choline and that's the only way I can think of not going over on PUFA. Still not eating liver only taking raw freeze dried liver in capsules...lol
 

redsun

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
2,555
I only eat the yolks of the eggs so I can cut the PUFA in half. I have to eat extra choline and that's the only way I can think of not going over on PUFA. Still not eating liver only taking raw freeze dried liver in capsules...lol

The fat is only in the yolk, meaning the pufa is only located in the yolk. You are still getting the same amount of pufa as a whole egg. Personally I don't take issue with naturally occuring pufa in animal foods especially not the 1g in an egg but just letting you know if you do keep in mind you are still getting all the pufa.
 

_lppaiva

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
114
Weird I was going by this information and it shows lower PUFA with just the yolks. Oh well I will still eat my eggs I need the choline alot
Egg, whole, cooked, scrambled Nutrition Facts & Calories
Egg, yolk, raw, fresh Nutrition Facts & Calories
The whites also have methionine, which may support the liver further. I'd see no point in throwing the whites away, although haidut has said that the yolks are the most important part, and eating egg whites only doesn't make sense (my guess is tryptophan).

I really need the choline also. I eat about two-three eggs in the morning, cooked in coconut oil to offset a little the PUFA
 

ExCarniv

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
479
Pastured eggs have 2x Vitamin E,
The whites also have methionine, which may support the liver further. I'd see no point in throwing the whites away, although haidut has said that the yolks are the most important part, and eating egg whites only doesn't make sense (my guess is tryptophan).

I really need the choline also. I eat about two-three eggs in the morning, cooked in coconut oil to offset a little the PUFA

Pastured eggs naturally have 2.5x vitamin E than regular soy ones, so more E to offet the pufa, I wouldn't worry about the PUFAs in eggs.
 

Hans

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
4,806
Methionine is not bad. Peat thinks eating 100g+ protein is a good idea, with between 120-150g being "the best".
Eating that much protein will help a great deal against fatty liver. Obviously micros such as copper and choline is very important as well.
 

ExCarniv

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
479
Methionine is not bad. Peat thinks eating 100g+ protein is a good idea, with between 120-150g being "the best".
Eating that much protein will help a great deal against fatty liver. Obviously micros such as copper and choline is very important as well.

Absolutely, liver, eggs, muscle meat and gelatine/glycine/bone broth all necessary for a healthy diet.

I don't worry about methionine , pufas in eggs or iron in liver.
 

_lppaiva

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
114
Pastured eggs have 2x Vitamin E,


Pastured eggs naturally have 2.5x vitamin E than regular soy ones, so more E to offet the pufa, I wouldn't worry about the PUFAs in eggs.

Mine arent pasture raised (yet). I got a scholarship to study in a rural area, so I'll have access to raw dairy and pasture eggs more easily (I am not so sure about it, because most people where I live, specially small farmers, aren't very knowledgeble about this. They may do it out of convinience, but wont market it as such, which makes them hard to find).

Anyway, at least they won't come from unknown origins and I can choose better.
 

Similar threads

Top