Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes following

[Suikerbuik]

Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes following exposure to artificial sweeteners

The scientists gave mice water laced with the three most commonly used artificial sweeteners, in amounts equivalent to those permitted by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). These mice developed glucose intolerance, as compared to mice that drank water, or even sugar water.Repeating the experiment with different types of mice and different doses of the artificial sweeteners produced the same results -- these substances were somehow inducing glucose intolerance.

The findings showed that many -- but not all -- of the volunteers had begun to develop glucose intolerance after just one week of artificial sweetener consumption. The composition of their gut microbiota explained the difference: the researchers discovered two different populations of human gut bacteria -- one that induced glucose intolerance when exposed to the sweeteners, and one that had no effect either way. Dr. Elinav believes that certain bacteria in the guts of those who developed glucose intolerance reacted to the chemical sweeteners by secreting substances that then provoked an inflammatory response similar to sugar overdose, promoting changes in the body's ability to utilize sugar.

Haven't seen full text so I don't know how to interpret the inflammatory response to substances bacteria might produce and what those substances might be.

Anyway all I can say is wow. This also supports Peat's views on seemingly proven to be safe isolated substances that are in fact harmful (not for everyone though).

 

[SQu]

Re: Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes follow

"an inflammatory response similar to sugar overdose"

I haven't heard of this, have you? Could this contribute to weight gain when sugar is reintroduced by low carb dieters?

 

[Suikerbuik]

Re: Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes follow

Sorry as said I don't know anything about the data. What they defined as overdose, what kind of sugar they tested, why glucose would elicit an immune response, etc.

 

[SQu]

Re: Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes follow

Glucose intolerance - inflammatory response - this is tantalizing. Whenever I've tried to find out why it's common to put on weight when reintroducing carbs it's just a blank. Combined with the health decline that ensued, plus the shame, it means I get no further. But there are hints. Eating sucrose when your body can't use the glucose, perhaps leads to lactate, muscle loss, aching, pain, edema, weight gain, accelerated aging, all this happened to me. Briefly energy improved ( the fructose in the sugar?) then everything got much worse. This was before peating. Perhaps low carbers should not introduce glucose initially. "/

 

[SaltGirl]

Re: Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes follow

Sadly I can't find it now, but this was in an old comment discussion on the old 180 Degree Health website. What was discussed(and one paper cited) was that sucrose, or fructose specifically, can interact with PUFAs in a harmful manner which resulted in the creation of a heap of free radicals. So if you have a lot of PUFA in tissue then sucrose can have a negative effect on you. It would actually explain all the negative results of sucrose consumption in studies if the subjects were also eating PUFA at the same time.

 

[Mittir]

Re: Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes follow

Sadly I can't find it now, but this was in an old comment discussion on the old 180 Degree Health website. What was discussed(and one paper cited) was that sucrose, or fructose specifically, can interact with PUFAs in a harmful manner which resulted in the creation of a heap of free radicals. So if you have a lot of PUFA in tissue then sucrose can have a negative effect on you. It would actually explain all the negative results of sucrose consumption in studies if the subjects were also eating PUFA at the same time.

RP has explained that in following quote how high PUFA in sugar experiment
failed to show expected beneficial effect of fructose. People with high PUFA storage
can use Niacinamide or Aspirin to lower the release of PUFA and eating a fructose
rich diet can keep the sugar oxidation running and Fructose especially bypasses
the inhibiting effect of PUFA in sugar metabolism. Glucose can not escape PUFA's
inhibition in oxidation. Low sugar metabolism will cause all sorts of problems
including free radical damages.

One of the core recommendation of RP is to restrict
PUFA release from storage by eating small meals through
out the day with sugar( Lactose, Fructose,Sucrose etc), protein and fat
and increasing body's ability to store glcyogen. Lactose and Fructose
powerfully replenish that and prevent PUFA release. I have seen huge improvement
in health when i added sugar with Niacinamide and seen more improvement
when i added tons of apple juice, which has more than 70 percent fructose.

I think people who switch from low carb to high carb/sugar they can gain
up to 10 lbs of water weight just by repleting glycogen. Low carb lowers
conversion of T4 to T3 and oxidation of carb. When someone starts eating
a lot of carbohydrate and calories in the form of sugar they will gain weight
if they are eating more than they can burn. But, if the same person starts
eating starch instead of sugar they should gain more weight than they would on sugar.
Sugar is the part of the solution in fixing all the low carb problems.

In 1963 and 1964, experiments (Carroll, 1964) showed that the effects of glucose and fructose were radically affected by the type of fat in the diet. Although 0.6% of calories as polyunsaturated fat prevents the appearance of the Mead acid (which is considered to indicate a deficiency of essential fats) the "high fructose" diets consistently add 10% or more corn oil or other highly unsaturated fat to the diet. These large quantities of PUFA aren't necessary to prevent a deficiency, but they are needed to obscure the beneficial effects of fructose.
Many studies have found that sucrose is less fattening than starch or glucose, that is, that more calories can be consumed without gaining weight. During exercise, the addition of fructose to glucose increases the oxidation of carbohydrate by about 50% (Jentjens and Jeukendrup, 2005). In another experiment, rats were fed either sucrose or Coca-Cola and Purina chow, and were allowed to eat as much as they wanted (Bukowiecki, et al, 1983). They consumed 50% more calories without gaining extra weight, relative to the standard diet. Ruzzin, et al. (2005) observed rats given a 10.5% or 35% sucrose solution, or water, and observed that the sucrose increased their energy consumption by about 15% without increasing weight gain. Macor, et al. (1990) found that glucose caused a smaller increase in metabolic rate in obese people than in normal weight people, but that fructose increased their metabolic rate as much as it did that of the normal weight people. Tappy, et al. (1993) saw a similar increase in heat production in obese people, relative to the effect of glucose. Brundin, et al. (1993) compared the effects of glucose and fructose in healthy people, and saw a greater oxygen consumption with fructose, and also an increase in the temperature of the blood, and a greater increase in carbon dioxide production.http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml

 

[SQu]

Re: Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes follow

Thanks, great info. So fruit, sugar and milk would be best for those who wish to heal after dieting, especially low carb. And enough protein. so now, years later I'm actually healing (AND I love this food, always have -how I wish I'd found ray peat before I found 180d and its 'intuitive' diet recovery recommendations).
Given the effectiveness of fructose, is sucrose good in spite of its glucose? or is it a way to reintroduce glucose under the protection of fructose? A safe way to get glucose metabolism going again? Seeing as, if I understand correctly, avoiding glucose,while avoiding the pufa damage, would not be the answer either because on the 'use it or lose it' principle, like digestion, you can't slowly re establish glucose metabolism without glucose! (Excuse my fumbling attempts to understand!)
Granulated fructose that I don't think is from corn and so should not have starch - useful or not? I do feel a slight energy boost over sugar, with it. A bit of both perhaps?

 

[Suikerbuik]

Re: Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes follow

Took a quick look at the full text, it is not that strong as the title suggested to be honest. But it is still interesting data and a great perspective from which to look at things.
They don't present data on inflammatory markers. But data on microbiome changes, including changes in enzyme activity and then refer to other papers that have found these pathways and taxa to be increased in diabetes.

Here a smal quote from the discussion.

we show that metagenomes of saccharin-consuming mice are enriched with multiple additional pathways previously shown to associate with diabetes mellitus23 or obesity11 in mice and humans, including sphingolipid metabolism and lipopolysaccharide biosynthesis25.

 

[Mittir]

Re: Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes follow

Given the effectiveness of fructose, is sucrose good in spite of its glucose? or is it a way to reintroduce glucose under the protection of fructose? A safe way to get glucose metabolism going again? Seeing as, if I understand correctly, avoiding glucose,while avoiding the pufa damage, would not be the answer either because on the 'use it or lose it' principle, like digestion, you can't slowly re establish glucose metabolism without glucose! (Excuse my fumbling attempts to understand!)
Granulated fructose that I don't think is from corn and so should not have starch - useful or not? I do feel a slight energy boost over sugar, with it. A bit of both perhaps?

Most fruits have 50/50 glucose fructose and it seems the nature's recommendation
with few exceptions like apple,pears, mango,watermelons etc. RP thinks pure
fructose is absorbed slowly and it can cause low blood sugar, so some glucose
with fructose is ideal. I remember reading one study that found fructose is better absorbed
when there is glucose. Now the ratio depends on individual state of metabolism.
I did better with 50/50 than starch, but doing better with higher ratio now.
Before i found Ray Peat i noticed one of my family member with severe
diabetes had dramatic improvement in health whenever she ate ripe mango.
It puzzled me that a single mango can make this huge difference.
I knew there were small amount of minerals and higher ratio of fructose.
I was avoiding fructose as per Loren Cordain fructose glucose chart.
I thought there was something special in mango that improved blood sugar.
Now i see the light and it is all about fructose.

I do not trust any food that is manufactured. RP mentioned that if it does not
cause any problem then one can use pure fructose. He had heard both
positive and negative reports from people using pure fructose.
Apple is the way. You can try to find out the kind of apple used by
certain brands and then look for the fructose content of those cultivar.

Note to moderator: I think we are getting off topic here. Please
create a separate thread with these posts.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Re: Certain gut bacteria may induce metabolic changes follow

Before i found Ray Peat i noticed one of my family member with severe
diabetes had dramatic improvement in health whenever she ate ripe mango.
It puzzled me that a single mango can make this huge difference.
I knew there were small amount of minerals and higher ratio of fructose.

I noticed the very same thing: when I first started Peating I could not tolerate sugars at all. I gained a ton of weight, my skin broke out terribly bad and my fasting blood glucose officially hit diabetic levels. I incorporated pure 100% fructose in my coffee and started eating lots of organic mangoes, some fresh, some frozen in smoothies and also the dehydrated ones from Trader Joe's. It made a HUGE difference in my ability to use glucose as a fuel. The process took several months, but I can now eat tons and tons of sugar. I ate a whole bag of cotton candy to myself and drank buckets of super sweet huckleberry lemonade at the Ellensburg Rodeo over this last Labor Day weekend and I actually lost weight. I NEVER EVER would have believed that was possible. Some days I eat well over 300 grams of carbohydrate....FRUCTOSE IS FABULOUS AND MANGOES ARE MAGIC.

 

[lexis]

http://diyhealthblog.com/2013/08/boosting-serotonin/

check the comments..we are really in dark ages