Sterilizing The Gut Restores Insulin Sensitivity By Reducing Fatty Acid Oxidation

[haidut]

Great quote from Shaw. Very uncompromising thinker.
But credulity is only a part of it. Shaw was very fond of Samuel Butler, another free thinker. Butler nailed the link between religion and medicine. It's a crime to be sick. You feel as if you've done something wrong. Illness is the modernized version of original sin: by being sick one forfeits the right to expect more from society. You don't really deserve it.

But I've wondered how you approach a doctor's visit. Do they give you "professional courtesy" because they see you're scientifically versed? Or does that not come up? How do feel about going to a doctor? Do you have a game plan?

It's something that absolutely drives me up a wall. I'm on the verge of losing my patience. But one can't "take his business elsewhere". It's not a business. You have to genuflect.

I give all of them benefit of the doubt. You can tell some of them genuinely try to help. But if they try to prescribe something like a whole-body CT scan or a toxic drug then I start throwing bits and pieces about the risks. The cool ones quickly realize what's up and basically say "Look, you clearly know how the game is played. This is what I can do for you, and these are my limits. Honestly, you probably don't need me unless you break a bone". The more authoritarian ones try to argue and those are almost invariably listed in the "Dollars for Docs" database by ProPublica. When I bring up their associations with say GE and question their recommendation of massive radiation imaging, they say they refuse to discuss anything without their legal counsel present and leave the room. I kid you not, I have had a doctor say he will not say anything more unless his lawyer was present.
So, I basically go for my annual physical and that's it. My PCP is a bit older and not as crazy. He firmly believes medicine is on the wrong track currently even though he refuses to consider why. I guess it's better than nothing, right?

 

[Spokey]

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” ~ Upton Sinclair

 

[aguilaroja]

The complete sterilization protocol includes 5 of them I think, which is probably an overkill and potentially dangerous. Regular penicillin, amoxycillin, tetracyclines, etc are probably the safest. Peat responded to a few people over email about that so it you search the thread with his email you will find more. He mentioned a few other he thought are safe.

@haidut what antibiotics would you recommend to use to sterilize the gut?

Respectfully, keep in mind that the gut sterilization protocol in the journal article cited by @haidut is a laboratory protocol. It was specifically developed for lab mice to keep mice more or less well for further experimentation. It goes on at considerable doses for many days.
Depletion of Murine Intestinal Microbiota: Effects on Gut Mucosa and Epithelial Gene Expression

It includes the anti-fungal drug Amphotericin B, which for years was nicknamed “Ampho-terrible.” As Wikipedia notes: “Amphotericin B is well known for its severe and potentially lethal side effects. Very often, it causes a serious reaction soon after infusion…”
Amphotericin B - Wikipedia

Hospitalized severely ill humans sometimes get extensive antibiotic combinations, for limited time and directed at specific microbes.

I do not speak for Dr. Peat. The recommendations attributed to him are for small quantity, short or occasional courses of select antibiotics. He seems to mention older antibiotics, which have the advantage of a long and known record of safety and side effects, and are off-patent and usually low cost. It seems wise to avoid agents with known common and/or severe toxic effects.

 

[Regina]

I give all of them benefit of the doubt. You can tell some of them genuinely try to help. But if they try to prescribe something like a whole-body CT scan or a toxic drug then I start throwing bits and pieces about the risks. The cool ones quickly realize what's up and basically say "Look, you clearly know how the game is played. This is what I can do for you, and these are my limits. Honestly, you probably don't need me unless you break a bone". The more authoritarian ones try to argue and those are almost invariably listed in the "Dollars for Docs" database by ProPublica. When I bring up their associations with say GE and question their recommendation of massive radiation imaging, they say they refuse to discuss anything without their legal counsel present and leave the room. I kid you know, I have had a doctor say he will not say anything more unless his lawyer was present.
So, I basically go for my annual physical and that's it. My PCP is a bit older and not as crazy. He firmly believes medicine is on the wrong track currently even though he refuses to consider why. I guess it's better than nothing, right?

It's the Prisoner's Dilemna. Where happiness is regulated only by how many or how few people's barrels you are over.

 

[dbh25]

The point is that it does not work, and by work I mean keep you healthy

If some exercise and fasting worked for me (in my 40s), I am sure it worked for others.

Nobody is saying obese people are healthy.

Thanks for the clarification.

But, on average, they are probably far less unhealthy than the lean ghosts running around to exhaustion. If somebody is lean without working themselves to death, then yes, that is good sign.

There are plenty of lower intensity activities for exercise, like walking, hiking, biking outside, yoga, etc. that I had in mind. Not "working to death" as you stated.

It may heal the gut due to lowering endotoxin from undigested food, but chronic fasting (as opposed to intermittent) decreases insulin sensitivity and the net effects is usually a quick "rebound" of weight when the fasting stops.

Intermittent fasting is another good tool to try. What is "chronic fasting"?

 

[haidut]

What is "chronic fasting"?

The definitions vary, but usually means at least 48 hours without ingesting anything with caloric values above 0. Some countries define it as anything more than 24 hours of complete fasting.

 

[Gohan]

How can i do Antibiotic-induced microbiome depletion? What kind of antibiotic should i use and at what dosage? Is there some antibiotic designed for this purpose that i can buy? Someone ? thanks i advance

 

[Dotdash]

As for the antibiotic route - what about using mushrooms. Don't they have antibiotic properties too?

 

[jet9]

How can i do Antibiotic-induced microbiome depletion? What kind of antibiotic should i use and at what dosage? Is there some antibiotic designed for this purpose that i can buy? Someone ? thanks i advance

Would like to know the same.

 

[tankasnowgod]

In addition to Antibiotics and the other strategies mentioned on this forum, there are two other things that I think could help. These could be used as a compliment to Antibiotics, or as a solo strategy.

The first is Lactoferrin. Lactoferrin has been shown in a few studies to reduce endotoxin load, and may even have the ability to bind to it. Lactoferrin should also help to sequester iron, and keep it away from bacteria, also helping to control growth.

The Protective Effects of Lactoferrin Feeding against Endotoxin Lethal Shock in Germfree Piglets
https://www.nature.com/articles/pr19962619
Neutralization of Endotoxin In Vitro and In Vivo by a Human Lactoferrin-Derived Peptide
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:DDAS.0000026302.92898.ae

As a bonus, there is one study that showed Lactoferrin could help with weight loss in humans-

Potent anti-obesity effect of enteric-coated lactoferrin: decrease in visceral fat accumulation in Japanese men and women with abdominal obesity af... - PubMed - NCBI

The other strategy would be sleeping inclined, or Inclined Bed Therapy. The engineer who discovered this noticed that it prevented the common two degree drop in body temperature that happens when sleeping, usually around 3am. Preventing this drop in body temperature would help to keep gut bacteria in check, and should also help with digestion and elimination, due to the better effects of gravity on the digestive tract when sleeping. This should also help reduce endotoxin's effects. There is a thread on it here- https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/inclined-bed-therapy.23450/

 

[Waynish]

This is the most epic and beautiful retort and wisdom I've read on this site.

But a surprisingly low about of people running bacterial measurement x, running protocol y, and confirming less bacteria by running measurement x again.

 

[Badger]

Holy crap, that's a phenomenal database! They list the top five highest paid MDs on first page, and they are raking in between around $37M-$65M in money from pharmas between 2013-2016. The top paid MD is a STEPHEN S BURKHART, from San Antonio, a surgeon, who made $21,838,335 from two companies in 2016 alone. Another MD, a mere Family Medicine guy, made $59M between 13-16. Wow, what a racket, much better than selling illegal dope on a street corner, and without the dangers!
Dollars for Docs

I give all of them benefit of the doubt. You can tell some of them genuinely try to help. But if they try to prescribe something like a whole-body CT scan or a toxic drug then I start throwing bits and pieces about the risks. The cool ones quickly realize what's up and basically say "Look, you clearly know how the game is played. This is what I can do for you, and these are my limits. Honestly, you probably don't need me unless you break a bone". The more authoritarian ones try to argue and those are almost invariably listed in the "Dollars for Docs" database by ProPublica. When I bring up their associations with say GE and question their recommendation of massive radiation imaging, they say they refuse to discuss anything without their legal counsel present and leave the room. I kid you not, I have had a doctor say he will not say anything more unless his lawyer was present.
So, I basically go for my annual physical and that's it. My PCP is a bit older and not as crazy. He firmly believes medicine is on the wrong track currently even though he refuses to consider why. I guess it's better than nothing, right?

 

[Waynish]

Holy crap, that's a phenomenal database! They list the top five highest paid MDs on first page, and they are raking in between around $37M-$65M in money from pharmas between 2013-2016. The top paid MD is a STEPHEN S BURKHART, from San Antonio, a surgeon, who made $21,838,335 from two companies in 2016 alone. Another MD, a mere Family Medicine guy, made $59M between 13-16. Wow, what a racket, much better than selling illegal dope on a street corner, and without the dangers!
Dollars for Docs

Hmmm... I could set chrome plugin that pops up "this doctor is making $x on y-companies" when any doctor's contact info is moused over.

 

[DrJ]

Regarding fasting, it probably helps people with bad digestive systems for a bit because you no longer have stuff irritating the intestine and it can heal. Probably serotonin is lowered. I know a long time ago when I used to try either 2-3 day 'water only' or 'juice only' (being fruit juice) fasts, I would feel very clear-headed and most/all of my anti-social tendencies would disappear, and I would feel incredibly empathetic and 'on a team' with people. But also not much motivation to do anything.

In this clip at 2:39, Ray basically says the only thing fasting helps is the intestines, but at the expense of the liver:



He says: "Fasting turns off the liver's ability to detoxify things so you're exposing yourself to increased toxins rather than decreased. The only thing that benefits is the intestines from not putting bad stuff into it."

Aimed to transcribe that right. Seems a reasonable assessment.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

It may heal the gut due to lowering endotoxin from undigested food, but chronic fasting (as opposed to intermittent) decreases insulin sensitivity and the net effects is usually a quick "rebound" of weight when the fasting stops. The studies on the Biggest Loser are pretty telling, and some of these people did not do strenuous exercise but only fasted. I am not against fasting, intermittent one can give the gut a break and chance to heal its compromised barrier. But chronic fasting is rarely good simply because it unleashes PUFA from stores and it is hard to imagine any good effects from that.

I was doing a 3 day water fast back in my late twenties, usually once every 3 months. I would always feel better after, increased energy, better digestion, clearer skin, happier etc. I was also doing IF this entire time. I grew to love it and look forward to my quarterly fasts. Fast forward to my late 30s, every time I have done more than a 1 day fast, I have deeply regretted the way I feel afterwords. I can still handle multi day fasts, it is not hard for me to do them, but I no longer seem to reap any benefits and sense they now do more harm than good. I have decided to never fast again more than 36 hours. Maybe my response is analogous to the DHEA and endurance exercise analogy which you brought up earlier.

The only exercise that is beneficial is glycogen-bound - e.g. weight lifting done in a way that builds muscle and keeps lactate at bay, walking at a pace that allows you to hold a conversation without breathing through your mouth, maybe even running (subject to the same restrictions). Exercise may work when you are in your 20s and can produce enough DHEA to counter the cortisol/adrenaline from the exertion. Once your gonadal steroids and pregnenolone/DHEA start to decline (30+ yo) then exercise (at least the officially recommended forms of it) becomes nothing but serious stress that is entirely detrimental and it pushes you further into the hole of insulin resistance and obesity.

 

[haidut]

Hmmm... I could set chrome plugin that pops up "this doctor is making $x on y-companies" when any doctor's contact info is moused over.

If you can make such a plugin I think it would be a huge hit and draw attention/fame to not only you but the Peatarian community as a whole. There is another database as well, and it seems to have a lot of non-overlapping data with Dollars for Docs. @Badger - check this out too.
https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/

So, if you can make a plugin that checks both databases I think that would be a HUGE hit among regular people and likely easily win "plugin of the year award" from Google or Mozilla.

 

[nad]

@haidut

The complete sterilization protocol includes 5 of them I think, which is probably an overkill and potentially dangerous. Regular penicillin, amoxycillin, tetracyclines, etc are probably the safest. Peat responded to a few people over email about that so it you search the thread with his email you will find more. He mentioned a few other he thought are safe.

Need advice - diagnosed w/H. Pylori after gastroscopia, Dr. prescribed Metronidazole 500 mg, 2/day, Clarithromycin 500mg, 2 times/day also, for two weeks.
He warned me it would be hard - nausea, weakness, headache etc,etc. (My neighbor, BTW, really looked half-dead on it.)
Is it worthwhile that suffer (stress)?
I'm allergic to penicillin and not sensitive (by test) to tetracycline.
Is H. Pylori really need to be killed?
And I really need to clean my gut.
Can make myself to start.
Maybe somebody try this?

 

[Cirion]

You didnt fast correctly... but Im sure that was the old school way. All that would def mess you up.

@danishispsychic

Somewhat of a thread necro, but I'm curious to your response as to what the correct method is. You posted on my log some time back saying you do things like the master cleanse and whatnot, is this what you are referring to as a "fast" in this context? Seeing as how someones' definition of a fast may differ from the next person, it can help to be clear as to what "fast" means here.

 

[danishispsychic]

@danishispsychic

Somewhat of a thread necro, but I'm curious to your response as to what the correct method is. You posted on my log some time back saying you do things like the master cleanse and whatnot, is this what you are referring to as a "fast" in this context? Seeing as how someones' definition of a fast may differ from the next person, it can help to be clear as to what "fast" means here.

the Master Cleanse is a cleanse, not a fast really. Doing a 3 day water fast will mess you up if it is not the right kind of water, or if you do not come out of it correctly ( which is usually the case . ) For water fasting , adding salt/potassium/baking soda mixture to the water will actually make the whole thing way easier as if your minerals are all out of balance in the first place ( and they usually are ) then it gets worse. Fasts are super personal and need experimentation IMO- I like to do the Master Cleanse, then do a dry fast , then do a water fast and then back to the Master Cleanse and then breaks it exactly like the protocol says and do it with vegetable broth. Also I think that intermitted fasting really helps to get the body used to fasting in general. I am a fan of the fast. I am not an expert , but I do try to fast whenever I can. ( which is like twice a month )

 

[Hugh Johnson]

The only fast that I believe can be useful is refraining from protein for a few meals, or at most 48 hours. I do see the pointof fasting in spiritual practices, but I find it to be unnecessary.