Gut bacteria causes rheumatoid arthritis (RA)...and likely all other "autoimmune" conditions

haidut

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After decades of fraudulent theories on the origins and development of RA, the study below seems to finally admit the obvious - RA is not an "autoimmune" disorder but simply the body producing antibodies to specific pathogens found mostly in the gut, which, however, have managed to translocate to the joints of RA patients due to those patients' compromised gut barrier. Yes, just like that, open admission that one of the most common "autoimmune" conditions is not what has been claimed for many decades. However, despite this admission of microbiome involvement, medicine is apparently still not ready to look at the obvious and true cure - antibiotics. The authors go out of their way to perform mental acrobatics and deny that antibiotics would be therapeutic. Saying things like "but, but, but, antibiotics kill both "good" and bad bacteria, which will do more harm than good" (a pure, unadulterated lie as there are no "good" gut bacteria), or "but, but, but even if you kill the pathogenic bacteria there is no guarantee that the antibody response will disappear" (really?? and where is the evidence it won't disappear?? why not just try it??), or "but, but, but maybe there is still some sort of "autoimmune" component we don't know about so we should not try antibiotics before we know for sure" (how much longer should we work on this fake hypothesis?? another 50 years??). Frankly, I am amazed at the length some doctors would go to defend a fraudulent theory that has produced no true cures, and slowly but surely destroys both the quality of life and the long-term health of RA patients. Oh, and lest we forget, considering now even mainstream medicine has stated ALL "autoimmune" conditions are likely the same underlying disease, with varying tissue-specific manifestations, the findings of the study below may be applicable to ALL other "autoimmune" conditions such as lupus, psoriasis, multiple sclerosis, myasthenia gravis, Hashimoto's, Graves disease, dermatomyositis, Addison's, etc. And, last but not least, if bacteria is THE cause of "autoimmune" conditions then suppressing the patient's immune system is probably one of the worst possible "therapies". Yet, that is exactly what all of the current "treatments" for RA and other "autoimmune" conditions do. Whether it is potent, synthetic glucocorticoids or TNF-blockers, or IL-6 antagonists, or some other selective abominable immunosuppressive chemical - any patient with an "autoimmune" condition is always between a rock and a hard place when it comes to choosing a course of treatment, when in reality a simple course of antibiotics may often cure their disease for good.

The gut microbiota shapes intestinal immune responses during health and disease - Nature Reviews Immunology
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.abn5166
Newly discovered species of bacteria in the microbiome may be a culprit behind rheumatoid arthritis

"...Specifically, we wondered if bacteria in the microbiome, a community of microorganisms that live in the intestines, might be the ones activating the immune response that leads to rheumatoid arthritis. Since microbes commonly live at the same sites as the antibodies driving rheumatoid arthritis, we hypothesized that these bacteria could be triggering the production of these antibodies. We reasoned that though these antibodies were meant to attack the bacteria, rheumatoid arthritis develops when they spread beyond the intestines to attack the joints. First, we sought to identify the intestinal bacteria targeted by these antibodies. To do this, we exposed the bacteria in the feces of a subset of people at risk for developing rheumatoid arthritis to these antibodies, allowing us to isolate just the bacterial species that reacted and bound to the antibodies. We found that one previously unknown species of bacteria was present in the intestines of around 20% of people who were either diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis or produce the antibodies that cause the disease. As a member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, I suggested we name this species Subdoligranulum didolesgii (“didolesgii” means arthritis or rheumatism in Cherokee) as a nod to the contributions that other Indigenous scholars have made to science as well as the fact that rheumatoid arthritis affects Indigenous people at a higher rate than other populations. Subdoligranulum didolesgii has not been detected in the feces of healthy people before, and it is currently unknown how prevalent this bacteria is in the general population. We also found that these bacteria can activate specialized immune cells called T cells in people with rheumatoid arthritis. T cells drive inflammatory responses in the body, and have been linked to the development of different autoimmune diseases. These findings suggest that these gut bacteria may be activating the immune systems of people with rheumatoid arthritis. But instead of attacking the bacteria, their immune system attacks the joints."
 

Osukhan

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thank you for the information, i have a friend who suffers from RA. would love to hear other's opinions and experiences that may help
 

Lollipop2

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Important. Sent to my friend who recovered from RA using Peat principles and progest-e and thyroid. Unfortunately the drug they gave her for RA caused her to get type 1 diabetes. Her doctor in France confirmed it was the RA drug that caused the type 1 diabetes. She almost died from that TA drug 🤬
 

Runenight201

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How can I get an antibiotic without going to the doc? Curious to try a round and see if it helps my health…
 

Smitty

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Whether it is potent, synthetic glucocorticoids or TNF-blockers, or IL-6 antagonists, or some other selective abominable immunosuppressive chemical - any patient with an "autoimmune" condition is always between a rock and a hard place when it comes to choosing a course of treatment, when in reality a simple course of antibiotics may often cure their disease for good.
Would you consider big pharma's JAK inhibitors to be harmful? I know aspirin and some other readily available substances have JAK inhibitory effects but they simply aren't as effective for hair regrowth in those with Alopecia.
How can I get an antibiotic without going to the doc? Curious to try a round and see if it helps my health…
Check this thread for some links with reliable sites.
 

Runenight201

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Would you consider big pharma's JAK inhibitors to be harmful? I know aspirin and some other readily available substances have JAK inhibitory effects but they simply aren't as effective for hair regrowth in those with Alopecia.

Check this thread for some links with reliable sites.

Thanks. Super stoked, and it looks like it’s cheap too 🙌🏽
 

Steve

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How do you figure out which antibiotic to take, what dose, and for how long?
I sure as heck don't trust doctors anymore, so I'd want to be able to verify they are doing the correct thing.
It would be nice to eliminate my Grave's Disease.
 

Steve

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Important. Sent to my friend who recovered from RA using Peat principles and progest-e and thyroid. Unfortunately the drug they gave her for RA caused her to get type 1 diabetes. Her doctor in France confirmed it was the RA drug that caused the type 1 diabetes. She almost died from that TA drug 🤬
Any idea what specific Peat principles she followed? How long did it take to be cured after starting the Peat stuff, thyroid, and progest-e?
 

Sumbody

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How can I get an antibiotic without going to the doc? Curious to try a round and see if it helps my health…
You can get Amoxicillin at just about any pet store. In the fish section. Same pills that are prescribed by the doctor. Not sure how effective they will be against varying bacteria. I have taken them from time to time, but never noticed a whole lot.
 

Runenight201

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You can get Amoxicillin at just about any pet store. In the fish section. Same pills that are prescribed by the doctor. Not sure how effective they will be against varying bacteria. I have taken them from time to time, but never noticed a whole lot.

Oh that makes it way easier. I saw in another thread them talking about how gut dysfunction is really from thiamine deficiency and how antibiotics make it worse. Who am I to know? I went and bought some thiamine at my local GNC, but it smelled absolutely disgusting, like it was tainted with something. I took a little nibble and then had to spit it out. I refused to put that in my body. So now I have to source some quality B1, which maybe idealabs has, or I believe Thorne produced quality supplements as well.
 

Smitty

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Oh that makes it way easier. I saw in another thread them talking about how gut dysfunction is really from thiamine deficiency and how antibiotics make it worse. Who am I to know? I went and bought some thiamine at my local GNC, but it smelled absolutely disgusting, like it was tainted with something. I took a little nibble and then had to spit it out. I refused to put that in my body. So now I have to source some quality B1, which maybe idealabs has, or I believe Thorne produced quality supplements as well.
Thiamine is known to have a sulfuric odour. It is normal but of course a pure source is ideal.
 

Sumbody

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Oh that makes it way easier. I saw in another thread them talking about how gut dysfunction is really from thiamine deficiency and how antibiotics make it worse. Who am I to know? I went and bought some thiamine at my local GNC, but it smelled absolutely disgusting, like it was tainted with something. I took a little nibble and then had to spit it out. I refused to put that in my body. So now I have to source some quality B1, which maybe idealabs has, or I believe Thorne produced quality supplements as well.
I got some Thiamine from Bulk Supplements, I don't remember it having much of a smell, but it will taste very acidic as it is an HCL.

I have had reductions in bloating and gas from taking antibiotics and similar things in the past. Most notably MMS.

So I strongly belive the bacterial angle. But one must consider that long standing infections can be extremely difficult to treat as the bacteria will have set up protective biofilms which are very difficult to penetrate.
 

David G

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Mainstream (profit-driven) rheumatology has been treating symptoms rather than root causes since the 1940's, but there has also been extensive progress being made in parallel, most notably an Antibiotic Protocol (AP) which has been used very successfully for decades now for various AI conditions. See the site www.roadback.org and their FB group, based on the classic book "The New Arthritis Breakthrough" by Dr. Henry Scammell (available on libgen etc.) The book thoroughly covers the history and science. The section for physicians on the roadback site is also very clear and concise, and the rest of their site is very well done.
 
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golder

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I got some Thiamine from Bulk Supplements, I don't remember it having much of a smell, but it will taste very acidic as it is an HCL.

I have had reductions in bloating and gas from taking antibiotics and similar things in the past. Most notably MMS.

So I strongly belive the bacterial angle. But one must consider that long standing infections can be extremely difficult to treat as the bacteria will have set up protective biofilms which are very difficult to penetrate.
What would you recommend for breaking down those those long term stubborn infections with strong biofilms?
 

Perry Staltic

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"

"Gut bacteria causes rheumatoid arthritis"​

Some bacteria, not all bacteria. The evidence is too overwhelming that some gut bacteria do some amazingly beneficial things. So I suspect, if the conclusion of this study is true, that the ubiquitous medical practice of overprescribing antibiotics is partly or even fully to blame for causing dysbiosis in which the wrong bacteria proliferate and dominate.
 

Sumbody

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What would you recommend for breaking down those those long term stubborn infections with strong biofilms?
I wish I had a clear answer.

There are enzymes out there that can perhaps. But you might suffer some severe side effects and distress while that takes place. I've tried a lot out there but never been able to commit to anything long enough to get results that I want.

You can research a lot of information on the forum by searching the word or words biofilm.

Someone had posted some info about a woman who is a Dr. or scientist who is studying and developing drugs for that purpose.

Interestingly she focuses on an ear infection that affects a lot of children. She studies it in a particular animal that is affected as well. Where as the infection causes a build up of fluid and in humans, stents are placed in the ear canal to drain the fluid. My friend's son had this and affected his hearing development. The problem is the bacteria form a biofilm so that drugs and or the immune system can not remove it.

If anyone is aware of where that info is and who that lady is, please repost.
 

LinObHa

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After decades of fraudulent theories on the origins and development of RA, the study below seems to finally admit the obvious - RA is not an "autoimmune" disorder but simply the body producing antibodies to specific pathogens found mostly in the gut, which, however, have managed to translocate to the joints of RA patients due to those patients' compromised gut barrier. Yes, just like that, open admission that one of the most common "autoimmune" conditions is not what has been claimed for many decades. However, despite this admission of microbiome involvement, medicine is apparently still not ready to look at the obvious and true cure - antibiotics. The authors go out of their way to perform mental acrobatics and deny that antibiotics would be therapeutic. Saying things like "but, but, but, antibiotics kill both "good" and bad bacteria, which will do more harm than good" (a pure, unadulterated lie as there are no "good" gut bacteria), or "but, but, but even if you kill the pathogenic bacteria there is no guarantee that the antibody response will disappear" (really?? and where is the evidence it won't disappear?? why not just try it??), or "but, but, but maybe there is still some sort of "autoimmune" component we don't know about so we should not try antibiotics before we know for sure" (how much longer should we work on this fake hypothesis?? another 50 years??). Frankly, I am amazed at the length some doctors would go to defend a fraudulent theory that has produced no true cures, and slowly but surely destroys both the quality of life and the long-term health of RA patients. Oh, and lest we forget, considering now even mainstream medicine has stated ALL "autoimmune" conditions are likely the same underlying disease, with varying tissue-specific manifestations, the findings of the study below may be applicable to ALL other "autoimmune" conditions such as lupus, psoriasis, multiple sclerosis, myasthenia gravis, Hashimoto's, Graves disease, dermatomyositis, Addison's, etc. And, last but not least, if bacteria is THE cause of "autoimmune" conditions then suppressing the patient's immune system is probably one of the worst possible "therapies". Yet, that is exactly what all of the current "treatments" for RA and other "autoimmune" conditions do. Whether it is potent, synthetic glucocorticoids or TNF-blockers, or IL-6 antagonists, or some other selective abominable immunosuppressive chemical - any patient with an "autoimmune" condition is always between a rock and a hard place when it comes to choosing a course of treatment, when in reality a simple course of antibiotics may often cure their disease for good.

The gut microbiota shapes intestinal immune responses during health and disease - Nature Reviews Immunology
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.abn5166
Newly discovered species of bacteria in the microbiome may be a culprit behind rheumatoid arthritis

"...Specifically, we wondered if bacteria in the microbiome, a community of microorganisms that live in the intestines, might be the ones activating the immune response that leads to rheumatoid arthritis. Since microbes commonly live at the same sites as the antibodies driving rheumatoid arthritis, we hypothesized that these bacteria could be triggering the production of these antibodies. We reasoned that though these antibodies were meant to attack the bacteria, rheumatoid arthritis develops when they spread beyond the intestines to attack the joints. First, we sought to identify the intestinal bacteria targeted by these antibodies. To do this, we exposed the bacteria in the feces of a subset of people at risk for developing rheumatoid arthritis to these antibodies, allowing us to isolate just the bacterial species that reacted and bound to the antibodies. We found that one previously unknown species of bacteria was present in the intestines of around 20% of people who were either diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis or produce the antibodies that cause the disease. As a member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, I suggested we name this species Subdoligranulum didolesgii (“didolesgii” means arthritis or rheumatism in Cherokee) as a nod to the contributions that other Indigenous scholars have made to science as well as the fact that rheumatoid arthritis affects Indigenous people at a higher rate than other populations. Subdoligranulum didolesgii has not been detected in the feces of healthy people before, and it is currently unknown how prevalent this bacteria is in the general population. We also found that these bacteria can activate specialized immune cells called T cells in people with rheumatoid arthritis. T cells drive inflammatory responses in the body, and have been linked to the development of different autoimmune diseases. These findings suggest that these gut bacteria may be activating the immune systems of people with rheumatoid arthritis. But instead of attacking the bacteria, their immune system attacks the joints."
Thanks! this is very interesting. , I am being told I have RA but all my blood tests except CRP and RF are normal. And my RF is slightly above normal. CRP is off the charts showing tons of inflammation. But my joints do hurt. Hands, fingers, wrists and Shoulders. This is all after a neck injury I sustained last summer. I am holistic minded and do not want any meds ect....unless its an antibiotic.
 

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