Brexit

[jaguar43]

I think its not about race, it's a cultural thing. People are stronger when they live in an environment with a homogenized culture. They all understand each other better, understand rules/laws/customs/morals....they have more unity. They have a sense of being part of something that's bigger than themselves.
China is extremely homogenized, and they don;t have widespread social problems like the US, and they certainly aren't actively seeking to diversify their population, it is unwise to do so.

The unity part of China comes from the collectivist culture versus the individualistic culture in states. It has nothing to do with what your talking about. Ray Peat talked about this in his book Mind and Tissue. Americans make every excuse in the books. Blame minorities for their economic failures. The widespread problems are cause by you yourselves.

 

[CarbAppreciator]

The unity part of China comes from the collectivist culture versus the individualistic culture in states. It has nothing to do with what your talking about. Ray Peat talked about this in his book Mind and Tissue. Americans make every excuse in the books. Blame minorities for their economic failures. The widespread problems are cause by you yourselves.

Look at South Africa, there is still large scale segregation, even after apartheid, so is it moral then to force people to homogenize when they don't want to? Why can't people just decide for themselves how they want to live, why should they accept orders from an overseas bureaucracy? (still waiting for an argument other than shouting racism)

 

[jaguar43]

Look at South Africa, there is still large scale segregation, even after apartheid, so is it moral then to force people to homogenize when they don't want to? Why can't people just decide for themselves how they want to live, why should they accept orders from an overseas bureaucracy? (still waiting for an argument other than shouting racism)

Because When you don't want to live around people who don't share the same skin color or culture as you; thats called Racism. Look it up in the dictionary.
There is no reason for it other than xenophobia.

In America it's actually worse to call someone a racist than to actually be a racist.

Are you part of the KKK ? or the American Nazi Party ? Or is racism part of the american culture now ?

 

[CarbAppreciator]

Because When you don't want to live around people who don't share the same skin color or culture as you; thats called Racism. Look it up in the dictionary.
There is no reason for it other than xenophobia.

In America it's actually worse to call someone a racist than to actually be a racist.

Are you part of the KKK ? or the American Nazi Party ? Or is racism part of the american culture now ?

So you are calling Africans racist, Chinese racist, Japanese racist, pretty much every country is racist then except western countries... is that it? Lol

 

[jaguar43]

So you are calling Africans racist, Chinese racist, Japanese racist, pretty much every country is racist then except western countries... is that it? Lol

Africans : Yes apartheid was notorious for racism. The unequal distribution of wealth and power of minority rule. How do you not know this. Have you heard of Nelson Mandela ?

When was China and/or Japan ever in the situation where they did not want to live around people because of a different skin color and culture ? Name one scenario ?

 

[CarbAppreciator]

Africans : Yes apartheid was notorious for racism. The unequal distribution of wealth and power of minority rule. How do you not know this. Have you heard of Nelson Mandela ?

When was China and/or Japan ever in the situation where they did not want to live around people because of a different skin color and culture ? Name one scenario ?

I said Africans as in people from all of Africa...
When they decided to not incentivize mass immigration through social welfare programs.
I will also point out that you are still unable to justify the forcing of people to live a certain way against there own will and internal guidance systems because you think it is right(some would call that authoritarianism). I'm done posting on this thread lol, its exhausting.

 

[jaguar43]

I said Africans as in people from all of Africa...
When they decided to not incentivize mass immigration through social welfare programs.
I will also point out that you are still unable to justify the forcing of people to live a certain way against there own will and internal guidance systems because you think it is right(some would call that authoritarianism). I'm done posting on this thread lol, its exhausting.

So your argument is that immigration is cause through incentivizes like social welfare. Because dropping bombs and full scale civil and drug wars aren't the reason. Because trying to avoid being killed whether in El Salvador by the drug wars or by NATO dropping bombs in Syria; isn't the reason. Stop watching fox news and stop listening to rush limbaugh. It makes you look terribly illformed.

The difference is that China has a collectivist culture that puts the many before the individual. In the United States it's exactly the opposite, its the individual before the many. If China or Japan were ever in a situation to help immigrates fleeing catastrophe. Then I am pretty sure they would do everything they can to help them.

Immigrates don't force you to live a certain way, its actually the other way around. Another line from Michael Savage. Jeez.

 

[kiran]

China is extremely homogenized, and they don;t have widespread social problems like the US, and they certainly aren't actively seeking to diversify their population, it is unwise to do so.

You're kidding right?
Don't mistake a lack of reporting for a lack of social problems. They have their problems for example with the uighur minority.

 

[Drareg]

Regarding IQ (not Brexit)

I actually find the research into IQ to be very robust, and supportive of the claims of @wiggles92

There are many researchers who subscribe to the Flynn Effect -- Flynn effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But like I noted in this post, the research is actually very clear on IQ being very heritable, and not very plastic -- PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

The comparison that some people make is to height -- malnutrition causes you to be shorted than you should be, be good nutrition doesn't make you taller than you can be.

We must first separate this particular topic (the degree of heritability of IQ) from any political discussion, and discuss the research based on its scientific merit (which I find to be pretty good).

Personally, I am not interested in the politics, but can see actual basis for the use of such research.

I also see the massive economic implications of a nation's IQ. I think Garrett Jones has given this topic a fair treatment -- Garett Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whatever the case, the significance of IQ, and the generic intelligence factor 'G', has surprised myself on many occasions, proving to be not just a limited test, but actually a generic test of all kinds of intelligence metrics. I must admit that the measurement accurate it has with regards to generic intellectual capacity is much much much larger than I initially thought ..... This was one topic where I had to check my bias, and admit that intelligence is less malleable than I thought.

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And note that whether or not Peat is correct, the ability to implement his recommendations, and improve the health of entire nations, still remains a daunting task.

.....

Are you accepting malnutrition causes you to be shorter than you should be?

Nutrition can cause you to grow taller with better environment which includes food.
The epigentic study's behind the Dutch famine show a decrease in heights during and after the famine, they are now one of the tallest nations in the world since improved environment. This has happened in a short timeline.
Ray Peat claims he grew when he took dhea, older cultures used to consume thyroid gland, if some teens with issues got some thyroid burgers everyday we could see reversal in issues.

The higher latitudes having high IQ as a nessecity for finding food is a poor theory IMO, magic mushrooms grow in abundance in the higher latitudes,UK for example, serotonin is a big part of hibernation, finding mushrooms and using them therapeutically could have been the reason for increasing intelligence and stopping humans who where potentially hibernating/depressed.
Mushrooms grow in the darker times of the year,they can be dried and the recent research from Ray Peat on mushrooms is pointing in a facinating direction,lowering endotoxins,estrogen etc.
The creative intelligence associated with mushrooms is there for all to see.
Mushrooms contain vitamin D, most northern hemispheres people have adapted epigentically to require lower vitamin D.

Any culture in a very hot environment is likely to find it difficult,30 degrees plus and sometimes touching 40c is extremely difficult I would imagine compared to northern hemispheres where the climate is between 5c and 20 c year round with the odd extremes.

Asian cultures you mention having higher IQ could be put down to rigid social pressure and shaming that goes on, Japan has an extremely high rate of suicide and individuals isolating themselves because they feel shame for not succeeding in what culture deems success.
It's very difficult to get any honest social studies out of China.

The only way to test heritability of IQ is to take a child from a family in what you believe are lower intelligent races and put them into an environment where they are surrounded by coherent stimulation.

The research is not clear in the slightest bit,it's only clear when you ignore epigentics.

 

[tobieagle]

I said Africans as in people from all of Africa...
When they decided to not incentivize mass immigration through social welfare programs.
I will also point out that you are still unable to justify the forcing of people to live a certain way against there own will and internal guidance systems because you think it is right(some would call that authoritarianism). I'm done posting on this thread lol, its exhausting.

Just let them be. Some people have to experience the effects by themselves first to realize the hypocrisy. After their own relatives get affected their minds will quickly change.

 

[Drareg]

Just let them be. Some people have to experience the effects by themselves first to realize the hypocrisy. After their own relatives get affected their minds will quickly change.

Realise your own hypocrisy first. Your reasoning is non existent.
What makes you think you have a right to live as you do in the west?
The western countries have been disrupting the countries many of immigrants for centuries, whether it's oil,blood diamonds,minerals etc.
Look what Belgium did to Rwanda.
ISIS are essentially the creation of the USA and allies looking for "weapons of mass destruction", Syrians are fleeing because they don't want their children's heads cut off ,father burned alive,mother raped and then beheaded.
The British and South Africa,the list goes on and on.
Now western countries are complaining about immigrants, those complaining couldn't have cared less when armies rolled into Baghdad,sit back and enjoy the entertainment.

A majority of immigrants want a peaceful life,this is clear as day to any thinking human being, when xenophobia rises against them in new countries they regress back into their own communities,this creates issues.
Screening needs to be improved if anything, many countries are doing a good job of integrating the children into their cultures with education,the older generations find it hard to change.

How would you feel if your country was taking over by another in a violent manner, not everyone wants to stay and fight against army's that have advanced technology to destroy you a mile away,its futile, they leave for peaceful life , how would your relatives feel in this situation.

Some countries were and still are built on immigrants.
I'm sure many of the immigrants long for their home, none of you realise this, the older generation in particular,they leave because they want their kids to survive.

 

[Ledo]

The sad thing is, had it not been for the currency debasement made possible by the repealing of the Glass-Steagall Act by the Clintons and the subsequent derivatives markets created there within, we never would have, on a global basis, been able to amass enough money focused on the tearing down of western institutions, culture , and government as is currently being under taken.

Our own debased currency used against us, imagine that.

 

[wiggles92]

Nobody seems to attack my arguments. You can't just call me and others racist and anti-Peat. Well you can, but if I am indeed bigoted, then prove it by showing me data. I want everyone to be able to reach the same intellectual achievements, be that academic, private enterprise, wisdom etc. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. Given equal opportunities, different genetic of groups, on the whole, are not capable of achieving the same things.

Do you really believe, for example, that with a meticulous Peat protocol, the Japanese will win the 100m sprint events at the Olympics? I'm not saying it's that simple, but it sort of is.

I would say anti-Peat would be anti-empiricism, through the mechanism of following emotions. The opposite being following information to its logical conclusion, beyond opinions and feelings. If I had followed my feelings about sugar being this artificial devil food I wouldn't follow the facts to their logical conclusion, which is distinctly more complicated, but in many ways opposing my original feeling about sugar.

If I make you feel upset or angry I'm sorry about that. I'm just a normal guy trying to find out the truth about race, IQ and potatoes at this moment in time.

I hope that having other individuals, whom you have seen are completely rational when it comes to less emotionally loaded topics, declare they somewhat agree with me, will lend some credence to my perspective.

 

[Such_Saturation]

The comparison that some people make is to height -- malnutrition causes you to be shorted than you should be, be good nutrition doesn't make you taller than you can be.

No lol, diabetes in pregnancy will make you smarter.

 

[Drareg]

Nobody seems to attack my arguments. You can't just call me and others racist and anti-Peat. Well you can, but if I am indeed bigoted, then prove it by showing me data. I want everyone to be able to reach the same intellectual achievements, be that academic, private enterprise, wisdom etc.

I would say anti-Peat would be anti-empiricism, through the mechanism of following emotions. The opposite being following information to its logical conclusion, beyond opinions and feelings. If I had followed my feelings about sugar being this artificial devil food I wouldn't follow the facts to their logical conclusion, which is distinctly more complicated, but in many ways opposing my original feeling about sugar.

If I make you feel upset or angry I'm sorry about that. I'm just a normal guy trying to find out the truth about race, IQ and potatoes at this moment in time.

I hope that having other individuals, whom you have seen are completely rational when it comes to less emotionally loaded topics, declare they somewhat agree with me, will lend some credence to my perspective.

Your ignoring the points put to you, re-read the thread.

I'm guessing your xenophobic core is refusing to see it.

 

[Drareg]

No lol, diabetes in pregnancy will make you smarter.

People of all ages are doing this.

In July I underwent cosmetic limb lengthening surgery (USA). I finished lengthening last week after gaining 8cm in my femurs. • /r/short

 

[wiggles92]

Your ignoring the points put to you, re-read the thread.

I'm guessing your xenophobic core is refusing to see it.

You're being quite nasty you know. Just accusing me offhand of having a xenophobic core.

Scanning this page, I'm fully aware that Western government military intervention in the Middle East is disgusting and destructive. It makes me extremely sad, the awful abuses our militaries have done through their middle-eastern meddling. The choices of the state are not the choices of the population under that flag. We could help many more of the refugees by paying for shelter in a nearby safe country, as it's considerably cheaper than paying social welfare to them, because even if they are capable of working in advanced first-world nations, they have to learn the language etc. etc. Regardless, they isn't usually the case. Look at migrants, job statistics, welfare compared against natives. They use much more welfare, this effect doesn't change regardless of the number of generations from the original migration, and neither do the employment levels. Maybe there's systematic racism, but that doesn't seem to stop Asian and Indian migrants doing much better.

It's not just genetic intelligence. Look at the polls of migrant Muslims. Much higher levels of homophobia, sexism, acceptance of child abuse. The West fought for very long to destroy these evil irrationalities. It's ideology too.

Do you think if I'd discussed what I've said in this thread with him (Peat), he would respond that I have a xenophobic core? No. He may feel intellectually challenged, and perhaps curious if what I brought up was of interest to him. I'm not emotionally challenging you, stop attacking my identity as if you have any idea who I am. I spent 3 weeks in Turkey last year near the Syrian border, living with the locals, trying to understand what's going on first hand. I guess that's what a xenophobe would do.

I'm not saying I'm morally better than you, or you are better than me. Frankly I don't care. I just try to think rationally, which is a daily challenge.

 

[Ledo]

@Drareg

The continent of Africa was enslaved long before Africans were sent to North America and Europe. Many of the slave lords were Muslim.

Whoa is it to the natives that were not subjects of the Queen.

The only real problem the world has today is money printing.

Quit your whining.

 

[Drareg]

@Drareg

The continent of Africa was enslaved long before Africans were sent to North America and Europe. Many of the slave lords were Muslim.

Whoa is it to the natives that were not subjects of the Queen.

The only real problem the world has today is money printing.

Quit your whining.

You make little coherent sense.
You create straw man after straw man. Try reading posts correctly.

" the only real problem the world has today is money printing", this comment sums you up and the real problem in the world, hubris, something you have in abundance.

 

[tyw]

@Drareg -- Yes, poor nutrition, or any other injurious stimuli, will lead to the lack of development of any characteristics requiring high energy.

I very much believe in epigenetics, but epigenetic expression by definition requires that a certain set of genes are already present (but dormant) in the organism.

NOTE: As a general philosophy regarding any adaptations, trends, novelty, etc .... "Things will not happen, until they do" is the right way to view this. You need to get all the pieces in place, which is a time consuming process, where it appears like nothing is happening .... then all the pieces suddenly fall in place, and you get the Renaissance.​

My own family is an example Grandma and Grandpa malnourished and stressed during the WW2 period, grandma was about 160cm, grandpa was around 170cm. But they raised their children in a good environment, and every one of my father's male siblings were >180cm (which is basically about 6 foot).

My mother wasn't exactly malnourished -- diet was the typical high PUFA nonsense, but definitely enough calories. The same for me, and hence I end up at 189cm (and my brother at 186cm).

This didn't happen for the peers of my Grandma and Grandpa, indicative that they had a dormant "tall height" gene, that they themselves could not express, but their descendants could.

What caused them to have this mutation? It's definitely not common from the South Chinese population which they both hailed from. I have no clue But know that social norms + maybe unconscious selective bias for a tall mate, has led to all my Uncles and Aunts having children, and likely the passing down of those traits to make tall Asian crazies

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Now, on a large scale, would it be likely that a population like the Dutch just went through many more of such unconscious selection processes? I would think that if being tall leads to advantages in that particular environment, then the selection pressure will be there.

Regarding intelligence, yes, I don't think Cold Climate alone is not enough to explain evolution of intelligence. There will be a combination of factors which force one to think into the future and come up with plans, and having the appropriate resources to manifest those plans, that would put pressure on greater intelligence.

I personally think Mushrooms were a significant factor.

Regarding Asian culture, I grew up in that culture, and Yes, there is huge selection pressure for certain traits, and has been going on for thousands of years of Chinese civilisation now. That is more than enough time to allow specific intelligence traits to arise in the population as a whole.

Chinese culture is definitely Brutal regarding intellectual tasks (and everything else really). If you don't perform, you are punished for lack of performance. Not just once, but relegated into a certain "implicit class system", and kept there through your life unless you really start to show breakout performance.

Sidenote: Xenophobia is built into the culture too ..... I grew up in Singapore BTW, and the explicit commentary about the inferiority of Malays and Indians, is common in both conversation and all the way up to the political discourse.

Another Sidenote: depending on which IQ test I took, I usually got scores around the 128-130 mark. The only relevance here was that because of that, I was selected to be part of the "pathway to elite" group in Singapore for quite awhile, and got to see the policies and talk to the people responsible first hand. It's Ugly ​

Yet Another Sidenote: "Aggression" and innovative behaviour is not something that is selected for in these East Asian cultures. The initial survival adaptation may have been to develop strong communal ties, which then became more and more rigid as time when one, to the benefit of the collective. In any case, there is no room for the crazy ones like myself Hence I am in Australia.
​

What is debatable is how quickly some of these characteristics are transferred between generations.

eg: some of the IQ research seems to show significant gains IQ points across single generations. If conditions are right, your children and smarter than you, and so on.

Of course, that needs to be balanced against potential dys-genic effects, like malnutrition and other injury, which I would argue is more common in today's world than the mainstream wants to believe.

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In any case, what I discuss above is intended to hint at mechanics, NOT policy.

When a word like "Eugenics" is given political backing, it becomes very dangerous. Taken alone, all the word means is "selection of good genetics" --- if I were a vegetable farmer, I would like to eugenically breed my vegetables to have better yields. I would observe and study the factors that possibly led to better genetic expression, and then try and coax the vegetables into going down that path.

Of course, the word has be completely tarnished by the people wanting to use it for policy making targeted at humans.

Personally, I try to De-complect concepts, and treat individual concepts as independently as possible.

.....