Brexit

[Makrosky]

I know I'm gonna be harsh here but I couldn't resist: In my opinion any EU citizen who thinks EU should be dismantled is just a damn redneck.

 

[lvysaur]

this thread is cancer

 

[Drareg]

I shouldn't even bother getting involved but I felt too compelled. Are you saying white European people are not allowed to maintain some racial homogeneity? Are you following the cultural marxist crap that believes all people are like water, and will just fit in whatever container they are put in? Sorry that's a strawman, but really that's the essence of what all these snarky comments about denigrating tribalism boil down to. European free market, secular democracies are I sort of tribe I suppose. We fought against slavery when no other culture or race did. We created and spread the blueprint for the modern world, and it wouldn't exist without us.

There's a reason why the East Asians and Europeans create the wealthiest societies. It's because of higher genetic intelligence. Combined with a society wide ideology of free market, secular democracy. Not all nationalities will ever be able to reach 1st world status. They are far less intelligent, overall. And there's a very clear cut off point for working democracies, about 91 IQ if I recall.

What's the point in racial homogeneity? To maintain a skin colour,extra/less melanin? If the solar system makes a few adjustments and sun moves closer we will all darken in skin colour,human hubris at its best to believe European have the right to maintain racial homogeneity, Haidut could market his solban at said market if this happens, make a fortune from passive aggressive racists. Their low energy stream of conciousness could allow you to convince them it's an elxir from God that cam to you telepathically in a low serotonin state one night,charge 100 dollars with the speil.

All people are water,structured dynamic water and proteins with an electric current,we adapt, if I go to Africa with a white women skin as pale as snow and have kids,my kids will develope darker skin with time,their kids will have darker skin and so on.....
People are products of their environment,epigenetics is showing us this clearly,so yes the person will resemble the container, there is evidence of highly intelligent few who transcend all culture but not the environment William Blake and Da Vinci saw the world in a grain of sand ,they could perceive the whole of reality in every piece micro or macro, this is the environment at its deepest level, it's the same pattern everywhere repeating itself and we are all made from it.

Who is the "we" you speak of ,who fought against slavery and created a blueprint for the modern world?
The modern worlds great advancements were by individuals who did not fly under flags or they faked patriotism so they wouldn't be jailed or ostracised.
The modern world has huge issues,this us you speak of, if they didn't create a blueprint we may have a much better world for all we know,without said blueprint their would still be a modern world in what state we can't know, but if the history Ray Peat speaks of was embraced instead of suppressed we could have individuals coherently perceiving reality and functioning much better as a whole,your us suppresses this.

Higher genetic intelligence is capable in every human being, it depends on the environment they are in. Epigenetics intelligence is the correct term,nobody is guaranteed a genetic switch that stays on through their life. Show me an example of genetic genius and let me inject low dose serotonin on a daily basis and see how long the genius lasts, essentially we change the mask/lense they perceive through,better still just mess with the electric current in the body.
Alan Turing is an example here, made to get hormone injections to stop him from being gay and it destroyed his intelligence, incidentally it was the law in UK at the time,around the 5o's, Hitler was evil in the world at this time but the allies were all good ,perhaps those who were gay viewed them all the same.....

The wealthiest societies are toxic and corrupt, you equate earning money to intelligence,the elites before the French Revolution potentially thought the same and then their heads were on sticks and guillotines, not so intelligent.
If an idiot puts his house on a roulette wheel stopping on a certain number in Vegas and wins millions is he intelligent? No he is a gambler. It's better he loses so the action can mirror his stupidity and hubris back to him.
Your free markets don't exist,they are highly leveraged casinos free for those who can access them ,joe public can't ,joe public is their to bail them out when they loose their gamble, free market is the term they use for this,look at the actions/results.

Again you believe 1st world countries are more intelligent than third world, again this depends on context and the environment, take joe public from the west and drop him into a local village in a third world country and see how self sustainable he is, he will appear stupid to the locals.
1st world people have a vocabulary which means you can tell people about your delusions of what you are,the actions tell us something different, many cant and don't cook,many are sitting all day,many are obese, many have depression,anxiety,chronic and bizarre 1st world health issues,suicide rates are rocketing.
Add to this that the third world resources stolen by the first world and are third world by design in some cases.

Not all societies want first world status, Afghanistan as an example,Iraq as an example, Libya ,etc they don't want a first world society(aka capitalism and the west).

I'm not sure if noticed but the "working democracies"(corrupt as balls) are not working too well these days.

IQ is not a true test of intelligence, it's flawed.

 

[Ledo]

Lets watch drareg argue from every conceivable position - at one time - until absolutely nothing has any meaning.

 

[Drareg]

Lets watch drareg argue from every conceivable position - at one time - until absolutely nothing has any meaning.

That's the point of dialogue.
Meaning is what you make of it.

 

[Ledo]

So you are trolling?

 

[Ledo]

The whole point of Europe was to try prevent another Hitler rising through democracy, he was brought into power by the public mainly because Germany were made to feel humiliated after world war 1,their currency was devalued and society left in the gutter etc. If you believe that this is not possible in any country worldwide even in the modern day you are misguided.

What they wanted was to stop the public voting because of the above, finish with democracy and install a new ideal,they have platonic styled ideals and some gnostic elements to Europe,they know it will be an issue with some in power within European Parliament will become corrupt and power mad but this is easier to deal with than modern day joe public/humans low energy stream of conciousness.

U.K. Is going to get screwed IMO,if the financial system wasn't rigged UK might have a chance and it would still be hard for them to bounce back without huge social issues first,the fact that it is a rigged system all in the name of globalisation and a more united peaceful world means those in power will pull strings.
London is not an example of the broader UK but if the financial center decide to leave London this will be a disaster, JP Morgan are rumoured to be pulling 2000 thousand workers/gamber drug addicts out of there already.

They won't give up on Europe,if it breaks up we will have economic wars which always leads to outright war.
Germany again will have the strongest economy because they produce.

It starts and ends with the dollar, Europe currently lives and dies by it. No dollar, no European economy. The upstart Euro was a possible challenger to the dollar in terms of world economic hegemony but USA went heavily into the middle east and wars...and an engineered financial crisis and Euro bank bailout by US federal reserve system with money conjured in a computer and more wars...and now we have euro peg to the dollar. So those that control the dollar control europe (and the USA as well!).

Some people are not ******* and so do not like this arrangement so you have (had really, it has morphed to Donad T) American tea party movement and some Britishers with balls - Brexit.

Really very simple! I left out globalism and might explain it if you stop trolling.

 

[snowboard111]

Oh................................................ boy

So, how much OJ is too much OJ?

 

[Drareg]

It starts and ends with the dollar, Europe currently lives and dies by it. No dollar, no European economy. The upstart Euro was a possible challenger to the dollar in terms of world economic hegemony but USA went heavily into the middle east and wars...and an engineered financial crisis and Euro bank bailout by US federal reserve system with money conjured in a computer and more wars...and now we have euro peg to the dollar. So those that control the dollar control europe (and the USA as well!).

Some people are not ******* and so do not like this arrangement so you have (had really, it has morphed to Donad T) American tea party movement and some Britishers with balls - Brexit.

Really very simple! I left out globalism and might explain it if you stop trolling.

No not trolling. This is your strawman, if you feel somebody is trolling clarify when and where.

Really it's not very simple nor black and white, I spoke about globalism several times in my posts.
You quote my post but went off on your own tangent. Your explanation is lame. You should try viewing different angles,you might get somewhere.

Your opinion is on fiat currencies,what your saying was said about sterling when it was the world number one currency.

Britishers with balls? Fill their pockets with money from Europe and they would vote stay ,it's not about balls but money, they just have a majority.

 

[Drareg]

Lets watch drareg argue from every conceivable position - at one time - until absolutely nothing has any meaning.

Who's the troll?
Come on guys lets mock Drareg.

 

[wiggles92]

What's the point in racial homogeneity? To maintain a skin colour,extra/less melanin? If the solar system makes a few adjustments and sun moves closer we will all darken in skin colour,human hubris at its best to believe European have the right to maintain racial homogeneity, Haidut could market his solban at said market if this happens, make a fortune from passive aggressive racists. Their low energy stream of conciousness could allow you to convince them it's an elxir from God that cam to you telepathically in a low serotonin state one night,charge 100 dollars with the speil.

All people are water,structured dynamic water and proteins with an electric current,we adapt, if I go to Africa with a white women skin as pale as snow and have kids,my kids will develope darker skin with time,their kids will have darker skin and so on.....
People are products of their environment,epigenetics is showing us this clearly,so yes the person will resemble the container, there is evidence of highly intelligent few who transcend all culture but not the environment William Blake and Da Vinci saw the world in a grain of sand ,they could perceive the whole of reality in every piece micro or macro, this is the environment at its deepest level, it's the same pattern everywhere repeating itself and we are all made from it.

Who is the "we" you speak of ,who fought against slavery and created a blueprint for the modern world?
The modern worlds great advancements were by individuals who did not fly under flags or they faked patriotism so they wouldn't be jailed or ostracised.
The modern world has huge issues,this us you speak of, if they didn't create a blueprint we may have a much better world for all we know,without said blueprint their would still be a modern world in what state we can't know, but if the history Ray Peat speaks of was embraced instead of suppressed we could have individuals coherently perceiving reality and functioning much better as a whole,your us suppresses this.

Higher genetic intelligence is capable in every human being, it depends on the environment they are in. Epigenetics intelligence is the correct term,nobody is guaranteed a genetic switch that stays on through their life. Show me an example of genetic genius and let me inject low dose serotonin on a daily basis and see how long the genius lasts, essentially we change the mask/lense they perceive through,better still just mess with the electric current in the body.
Alan Turing is an example here, made to get hormone injections to stop him from being gay and it destroyed his intelligence, incidentally it was the law in UK at the time,around the 5o's, Hitler was evil in the world at this time but the allies were all good ,perhaps those who were gay viewed them all the same.....

The wealthiest societies are toxic and corrupt, you equate earning money to intelligence,the elites before the French Revolution potentially thought the same and then their heads were on sticks and guillotines, not so intelligent.
If an idiot puts his house on a roulette wheel stopping on a certain number in Vegas and wins millions is he intelligent? No he is a gambler. It's better he loses so the action can mirror his stupidity and hubris back to him.
Your free markets don't exist,they are highly leveraged casinos free for those who can access them ,joe public can't ,joe public is their to bail them out when they loose their gamble, free market is the term they use for this,look at the actions/results.

Again you believe 1st world countries are more intelligent than third world, again this depends on context and the environment, take joe public from the west and drop him into a local village in a third world country and see how self sustainable he is, he will appear stupid to the locals.
1st world people have a vocabulary which means you can tell people about your delusions of what you are,the actions tell us something different, many cant and don't cook,many are sitting all day,many are obese, many have depression,anxiety,chronic and bizarre 1st world health issues,suicide rates are rocketing.
Add to this that the third world resources stolen by the first world and are third world by design in some cases.

Not all societies want first world status, Afghanistan as an example,Iraq as an example, Libya ,etc they don't want a first world society(aka capitalism and the west).

I'm not sure if noticed but the "working democracies"(corrupt as balls) are not working too well these days.

IQ is not a true test of intelligence, it's flawed.

Rich, high IQ countries are all top of CPI Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think you understand what a free market is. You can't bail out free market businesses, you can only voluntarily pay for them to keep trading. 'Bailing out' has the prerequisite of a government, who will take your money via taxation as a legal obligation.

And yes, you can poison a genius and make him/her less intelligent. But you can't increase IQ, other than slight increases of 5-10% through better nutrition and education, for example learning languages or playing the piano to a high skill level. IQ after adolescence is generally pretty stable throughout life, regardless of intervention, and twin studies show it's largely heritable. I'm not meaning to put people down, or come across as a racist. Truly. I'm not. I've got friends and work colleagues of African, Pakistani, Asian descent etc. I treat them exactly the same. The point is, on the whole, racial groups have different intelligence levels. That's all.

 

[snowboard111]

Can someone with a high IQ explain to me what IQ mean, or intelligence for that matter, and how it affect how one would "integrate" well in a new set of expected behaviours within a new environment?

 

[Simonsays]

If ive learnt something from joining this forum, its " i wont reach my destination if i throw stones at every dog that barks"

 

[Drareg]

Rich, high IQ countries are all top of CPI Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think you understand what a free market is. You can't bail out free market businesses, you can only voluntarily pay for them to keep trading. 'Bailing out' has the prerequisite of a government, who will take your money via taxation as a legal obligation.

And yes, you can poison a genius and make him/her less intelligent. But you can't increase IQ, other than slight increases of 5-10% through better nutrition and education, for example learning languages or playing the piano to a high skill level. IQ after adolescence is generally pretty stable throughout life, regardless of intervention, and twin studies show it's largely heritable. I'm not meaning to put people down, or come across as a racist. Truly. I'm not. I've got friends and work colleagues of African, Pakistani, Asian descent etc. I treat them exactly the same. The point is, on the whole, racial groups have different intelligence levels. That's all.[/QUOTE

Your free market is not free,that's the point I was making,it's always open to monopolies,without government the public are helpless to stop it. It's the use of words to imply it's free,it's a corrupt system.

You can't increase IQ and then you admit you can,therefore you can?
I'm sure using Ray Peat as a guideline it would increase far more.
The brain keeps growing and building throughout life,this fact renders your theory on IQ not increasing after adolescent redundant. The potential is there with the right environment.
It's not heritable,it's adaptable, plasticity.
Once again you take IQ as the definitive intellegence test which it is not.

Racial groups do not have different intelligence if put in similar environments and allowed to develop.
Your arguments will not put people down as they are obviously your own xenophobic projections onto others.

You are trying hard to ignore evidence,your stuck in an older dogma of genetic determinism, you should read more Ray Peat and stop using genetic determinism as a guise for your xenophobia.

Your free market is not free,that's the point I was making,it's always open to monopolies,without government the public are helpless to stop it. It's the use of words to imply it's free,it's a corrupt system.

You can't increase IQ and then you admit you can,therefore you can?
I'm sure using Ray Peat as a guideline it would increase far more.
The brain keeps growing and building throughout life,this fact renders your theory on IQ not increasing after adolescent redundant. The potential is there with the right environment.
It's not heritable,it's adaptable, plasticity.
Once again you take IQ as the definitive intellegence test which it is not.

Racial groups do not have different intelligence if put in similar environments and allowed to develop.
Your arguments will not put people down as they are obviously your own xenophobic projections onto others.

You are trying hard to ignore evidence,your stuck in an older dogma of genetic determinism, you should read more Ray Peat and stop using genetic determinism as a guise for your xenophobia.

 

[Drareg]

If ive learnt something from joining this forum, its " i wont reach my destination if i throw stones at every dog that barks"

Is it not about journey for you then? You could enjoy and do good for the world by throwing stones at those dogs.

 

[kiran]

If ive learnt something from joining this forum, its " i wont reach my destination if i throw stones at every dog that barks"

What are you doing on this forum man? You should totally do something worthwhile like feed poor children in Africa. Or perhaps work towards that next bonus.

 

[jaguar43]

And yes, you can poison a genius and make him/her less intelligent. But you can't increase IQ, other than slight increases of 5-10% through better nutrition and education, for example learning languages or playing the piano to a high skill level. IQ after adolescence is generally pretty stable throughout life, regardless of intervention, and twin studies show it's largely heritable. I'm not meaning to put people down, or come across as a racist. Truly. I'm not. I've got friends and work colleagues of African, Pakistani, Asian descent etc. I treat them exactly the same. The point is, on the whole, racial groups have different intelligence levels. That's all.

This is fundamental anti-Ray Peat. I usually don't throw that term around because I don't like categorizing Ray Peat's work. But I think he would agree that this is directly antithetical to his work.

Social support, including education, is considered to be the factor which causes great differences in creativity and intelligence, and not genetics. A genetic theory of intelligence is considered to be a mere rationalization for racist practices.21 Visual imagery is considered to be the basis of creative intelligence,22 and as such is studied with the intention of finding principles that can be used in education. - Ray Peat Mind and Tissue page 52

Other psychometrists have transcended not only biology but even rationality, and have catalogued the preferences of people that they define as intelligent, and designed “I.Q. tests” based on the selection of things that were preferred by “intelligent people.” This behavior is remarkably similar to the “psychometry” of the general culture, in which “smart” people are those who do things the “right” way.

The rat research of Marion Diamond and others at the University of California, however, showed that the structure, weight, and biochemistry of a rat's brain changes, according to the amount of environmental stimulation and opportunity for exploration. This improvement of brain structure and function is passed on to the next generation, giving it a head-start. It isn't likely that rats are more disposed than humans to benefit from mental activity, and in the years since Diamond's research there have been many discoveries showing that brains of all sorts complexify structurally and functionally in response to stimulation.

I.Q. testing originated in a historical setting in which its purpose was often to establish a claim of racial superiority, or to justify sterilization or “euthanasia,” or to exclude immigrants. More recently, the tests have been used to assign students to certain career paths. Because of their use by people in power to control others, the I.Q. tests have helped to create misunderstanding of the nature of intelligence. A person's “I.Q.” now has very strong associations with the ideology of schooling as a road to financial success, rather than to enrichment of a shared mental life.

Intelligence and metabolism

Oliver Gillie (in his book, Who Do You Think You Are?) discussed some of the fraud that has occurred in twin studies, but no additional fraud is needed when the non-genetic explanation is simply ignored and excluded from discussion. The editors of most medical and scientific journals are so convinced of the reality of genetic determination that they won’t allow their readers to see criticisms of it.

Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities: Commonalities in disease

Geneticists have been the worst offenders. Genetics is popular among bourgeois racists and elitists, and many geneticists have eagerly formulated genetic theories of intelligence on the flimsiest evidence. - Mind and tissue page 161

I am surprised that you would make this argument in such an arrogant fashion. It's like you know absolutely nothing about Ray Peat's work. No evidence or justification, just talking. There is absolutely no evidence of genes as the culprit for intelligence. I think Ray Peat got it right when he called people who subscribe to the genetics doctrine as Racist !

 

[tyw]

Regarding IQ (not Brexit)

I actually find the research into IQ to be very robust, and supportive of the claims of @wiggles92

There are many researchers who subscribe to the Flynn Effect -- Flynn effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But like I noted in this post, the research is actually very clear on IQ being very heritable, and not very plastic -- PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

The comparison that some people make is to height -- malnutrition causes you to be shorted than you should be, be good nutrition doesn't make you taller than you can be.

We must first separate this particular topic (the degree of heritability of IQ) from any political discussion, and discuss the research based on its scientific merit (which I find to be pretty good).

Personally, I am not interested in the politics, but can see actual basis for the use of such research.

I also see the massive economic implications of a nation's IQ. I think Garrett Jones has given this topic a fair treatment -- Garett Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whatever the case, the significance of IQ, and the generic intelligence factor 'G', has surprised myself on many occasions, proving to be not just a limited test, but actually a generic test of all kinds of intelligence metrics. I must admit that the measurement accurate it has with regards to generic intellectual capacity is much much much larger than I initially thought ..... This was one topic where I had to check my bias, and admit that intelligence is less malleable than I thought.

----

And note that whether or not Peat is correct, the ability to implement his recommendations, and improve the health of entire nations, still remains a daunting task.

.....

 

[jaguar43]

Regarding IQ (not Brexit)

I actually find the research into IQ to be very robust, and supportive of the claims of @wiggles92

There are many researchers who subscribe to the Flynn Effect -- Flynn effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But like I noted in this post, the research is actually very clear on IQ being very heritable, and not very plastic -- PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

The comparison that some people make is to height -- malnutrition causes you to be shorted than you should be, be good nutrition doesn't make you taller than you can be.

We must first separate this particular topic (the degree of heritability of IQ) from any political discussion, and discuss the research based on its scientific merit (which I find to be pretty good).

Personally, I am not interested in the politics, but can see actual basis for the use of such research.

I also see the massive economic implications of a nation's IQ. I think Garrett Jones has given this topic a fair treatment -- Garett Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whatever the case, the significance of IQ, and the generic intelligence factor 'G', has surprised myself on many occasions, proving to be not just a limited test, but actually a generic test of all kinds of intelligence metrics. I must admit that the measurement accurate it has with regards to generic intellectual capacity is much much much larger than I initially thought ..... This was one topic where I had to check my bias, and admit that intelligence is less malleable than I thought.

----

And note that whether or not Peat is correct, the ability to implement his recommendations, and improve the health of entire nations, still remains a daunting task.

.....

Your reference on Garrett Jones contradicts your previous statements that one should separate the political ideology from the scientific research. Because Garrett Jones is an economist. Not just any economist but a Libertarian economist from George Mason University. Having family members that went to that school I can tell you most of the economic professors are of the libertarian ideology. He is also part of the infamous think tank Mercatus Center, which is funded by the koch brothers. They are closest thing we have to an oligarchy in the states.

The question isn't about heritability, but of genetics. Specifically genetic determinism. Marion Diamonds work did show that rats who had parents raised in the "enrich" environment did give the offspring an head start regarding brain size. But rats who's parent's didn't have the enrich environment though they did almost caught up to the latter in brain size.

The question is how do we define intelligence. Like Ray Peat said the IQ test was historically used for racist ideologues and to exclude people. Now it's purpose is to determine social opportunity.

You say the research for it is robust. But so is the research for estrogen, serotonin, and radiation. Does that mean we should take estrogen and SSRI's ? I don't think that argument is going to hold ground.

The only studies that have came to conclude genetic determinism are twin studies. Ray Peat has said that twin studies are extremely fraudulent. Your reference to Richard Lynn is almost laughable. Because he is known to be part of the eugenics movement. The same movement that justify the extermination of the jewish people.

 

[CarbAppreciator]

I think its not about race, it's a cultural thing. People are stronger when they live in an environment with a homogenized culture. They all understand each other better, understand rules/laws/customs/morals....they have more unity. They have a sense of being part of something that's bigger than themselves.
China is extremely homogenized, and they don;t have widespread social problems like the US, and they certainly aren't actively seeking to diversify their population, it is unwise to do so.