Brexit

[kyle]

There seems to be in nature a law which tends for nations to remain at a certain scale to function. The possible breakup of the EU seems to confirm this law. The EU was too generalized (and self-serving to certain economic actors) to meet the needs of the specialized nature of the many nationalities it is trying to govern.

Ray Peat's skepticism of a general, standard diet seems to also parallel this natural law. The promotion of certain diets for a large diverse population in different environments and with different nutritional wants causes havoc.

It seems nations are not unlike biological entities.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Outside of Brexit, I have a few questions for British people. There seems to be a lot of them on here so I guess I'll make a thread. There are just some things I always wanted to know but I don't feel like researching and would rather ask.

 

[Sheik]

I'm happy that they decided they don't like their country being invaded. White people are waking up.

 

[Simonsays]

Outside of Brexit, I have a few questions for British people. There seems to be a lot of them on here so I guess I'll make a thread. There are just some things I always wanted to know but I don't feel like researching and would rather ask.

Ask away? But im still in shock. Cortisol and adrenaline rocketing, unlike the £ or the stock market.

There seems to be in nature a law which tends for nations to remain at a certain scale to function. The possible breakup of the EU seems to confirm this law. The EU was too generalized (and self-serving to certain economic actors) to meet the needs of the specialized nature of the many nationalities it is trying to govern.

Ray Peat's skepticism of a general, standard diet seems to also parallel this natural law. The promotion of certain diets for a large diverse population in different environments and with different nutritional wants causes havoc.

I knew there would be a Ray Peat angle.

 

[Footscray]

Self government in all areas of life is the grown up, mature way to run our lives. It's takes more effort and responsibility. Well done Britain.

 

[Tarmander]

Whenever Germany stops feeling bad for WW2, the whole Euro thing is going down anyways.

 

[equusvult]

This England never did, nor never shall,
Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror,
But when it first did help to wound itself.
Now these her princes are come home again,
Come the three corners of the world in arms,
And we shall shock them. Nought shall make us rue,
If England to itself do rest but true.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Unless Scotland leaves too

 

[misery guts]

There seems to be in nature a law which tends for nations to remain at a certain scale to function. The possible breakup of the EU seems to confirm this law. The EU was too generalized (and self-serving to certain economic actors) to meet the needs of the specialized nature of the many nationalities it is trying to govern.

Ray Peat's skepticism of a general, standard diet seems to also parallel this natural law. The promotion of certain diets for a large diverse population in different environments and with different nutritional wants causes havoc.

It seems nations are not unlike biological entities.

China's got over double the population and doesn't seem very close to breaking up at all. I think it's overly abstract to suggest there's particular limits for groups to live in, and although the conditions are incidentally not as such here, it wouldn't take much to likely almost totally quell discontent with the union, as evidenced by the not long ago high rates of EU approval across Europe, including the UK. Greater financial integration, preventing the kind of internal predation we've seen since the crash, along with closing borders to anyone who looks like a Muslim would probably end any meaningful opposition to the EU, and I imagine it could house a great many more people under its umbrella without any metaphysical poker coming along and forcing the whole thing apart.

It's obviously a truism that as communities continue to grow, changes will continue to occur, but then I think since we stopped living in groups of 100's we've already broken most of the context that our psychology developed in as we will do in groups of a million or 200 million. I think the most glaringly obvious change is that we are detached from the results of our actions and omissions in any society large enough whereby you don't actually see and hear the people who are suffering - only the occasional statistic saying "this many people are poor", "this many people killed themselves this year" etc. Unfortunately, some of the other psychological traits we have evolved are not so dulled in this context. Your personal desire to accumulate resources for instance, isn't something that is going to be attenuated by living with more people. Telling the community to **** off because you reckon you can make more money and don't want them living too close to you anyway, is the result of a society that is dominated by a culture that glorifies greed and has lost the fundamental cues for empathy and compassion.

 

[Stilgar]

If the gusto behind leaving really was about a move towards self-governance, then it would definitely be a good thing. The concern is that the UK (or whatever is left of it) are looking at an imminent far-right government, and frankly the whole situation is quite embarrassing. The leave camp reflects a society of disenchanted working classes, who have been hit the most by austerity, but unfortunately theres a little bit of racism and a deep lack of education about what alternative governance could and should really look like. The remain camp is sort of boring, like most things that happen in the UK, and its risk averse and full of people who are attached to their European identities as if it really affects their day to day lives. They are middle class people worried that their holidays might get a bit more expensive. Nobody talked about the EU before this blew up - few people actually knew what the EU was. On both sides. Many still don't. Scotland's campaign was likewise seemingly lovely - self governance, a small country looking to be able to enact change that reflected the votes of the people. There was something unnerving about the nationalism of it though, and a worrying sense of people's relentless positivity towards new-ness just for the sake of new, of false hopes that relied on lack of corruption and people being true to their word.

I was away in Greece for the vote, and I found it strangely poetic to be in such a beautiful country whose people are kind and happy despite the clamour of economics and politics.

I think George Carlin is again relevant here.

"Because if everything is really the fault of politicians, where are all the bright, honest, intelligent Americans who are ready to step in and replace them? Where are these people hiding? The truth is, we don’t have people like that. Everyone’s at the mall, scratching his balls and buying sneakers with lights in them. And complaining about the politicians.

For myself, I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way. On Election Day, I stay home. Two reasons: First of all, voting is meaningless; this country was bought and paid for a long time ago. That empty ***t they shuffle around and repackage every four years doesn’t mean a thing."

 

[Simonsays]

Stilgars view is quite a reasonable analysis.

Margaret Thatcher (quoting Clement Attlee approvingly) once referred to referendums as ‘a device for dictators and demagogues’. They reduce complicated issues down to simplistic ‘yes/no’ questions. They allow elected representatives to abrogate responsibility. They weaken the constitutional protection of minorities and can lead to a ‘tyranny of the majority’.

The referendum gave the chance for many at the bottom of society to hit out as those they see are responsible for their problems.

Nobody talked about the EU before this blew up - few people actually knew what the EU was. On both sides. Many still don't.

This is true. The EU has never been a strong concept in the UK and is regularly seen as a whipping boy for the countrys ills.

For so many it became to be distilled down into a question of immigration, as somehow leaving the EU would end this.

Whipped up by demagogues and the right wing press constantly battering away at "Europe" as the cause of all our problems interfering with our way of life , telling is what to do,etc.

Phrases like "Take back control of the country" are effective soundbites for those who dont want to look to deeply into the consequences of leaving.

Well weve made our bed and have to lie in it. I hope its not a case of vote in haste, repent at leisure.

 

[misery guts]

If the gusto behind leaving really was about a move towards self-governance, then it would definitely be a good thing.

Really? What was the EU holding us back from? Austerity was the result of the banking collapse, not EU regulations keeping growth hormones out of our food. The EU was actually pushing to reform (laughably meager but whatever) that very industry that resulted in us 'needing' to cut public services whilst printing money for those who should be in jail. This was portrayed in our media as being a jealous grab by Frankfurt for London's business. lol.

 

[dd99]

Sorry for my language. But what a **** up. And now Leave have admitted that the propaganda they used to sway voters was a lie.
A riff on Life of Brian's What Have The Romans Ever Done For Us?
What has the EU ever done for us?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Don't worry the elite will promptly ignore the referendum.

 

[Stilgar]

Really? What was the EU holding us back from? Austerity was the result of the banking collapse, not EU regulations keeping growth hormones out of our food. The EU was actually pushing to reform (laughably meager but whatever) that very industry that resulted in us 'needing' to cut public services whilst printing money for those who should be in jail. This was portrayed in our media as being a jealous grab by Frankfurt for London's business. lol.

I meant more generally - not necessarily applying just to the EU, but that large governmental organisations are too sweeping and broad to be applicable to the differences between countries with different needs. Whether it works in practice or not, I don't know. It smacks of corruption, but every organisation or government does, when you really look closely.

I was actually in favour of remain, mostly because I thought freedom of movement should be held as a high ideal, I don't care much for the economical implications.

 

[Greg says]

Europe's true vocation is to make democracy impossible and install a government of experts.

I'm really counting on the UK to vote no, which could have a domino effect of the collapse of Europe.

- Houellebecq

 

[seano]

Immediate effect of Brexit: Highlighting that a large portion of the country are racist & xenophobic. They now feel the "win" makes public racist & hate speech okay. Further, it highlights ignorance since much of that racism is towards Asians. Last time I checked, Asia is not a part of the EU.

 

[Drareg]

The whole point of Europe was to try prevent another Hitler rising through democracy, he was brought into power by the public mainly because Germany were made to feel humiliated after world war 1,their currency was devalued and society left in the gutter etc. If you believe that this is not possible in any country worldwide even in the modern day you are misguided.

What they wanted was to stop the public voting because of the above, finish with democracy and install a new ideal,they have platonic styled ideals and some gnostic elements to Europe,they know it will be an issue with some in power within European Parliament will become corrupt and power mad but this is easier to deal with than modern day joe public/humans low energy stream of conciousness.

U.K. Is going to get screwed IMO,if the financial system wasn't rigged UK might have a chance and it would still be hard for them to bounce back without huge social issues first,the fact that it is a rigged system all in the name of globalisation and a more united peaceful world means those in power will pull strings.
London is not an example of the broader UK but if the financial center decide to leave London this will be a disaster, JP Morgan are rumoured to be pulling 2000 thousand workers/gamber drug addicts out of there already.

They won't give up on Europe,if it breaks up we will have economic wars which always leads to outright war.
Germany again will have the strongest economy because they produce.

 

[Ledo]

The EU made mincemeat out of any notion the average citizen of a European country belonging to the EU had any sovereignty at all. Let the fighting begin!

 

[CarbAppreciator]

Britons have a proud history of asserting human rights and the right to self determination, a tradition that raises the dignity of the common man and that is visible in all the anglo countries, great to see that tradition continuing in it's birthplace!