Breathing Exercises Made My Hypothyroid

[ecstatichamster]

I may always have been hypothyroid but I think breathing exercises made me worse.

To be clear, breathing exercises form Buteyko’s work saved my life. Literally I’d be dead now without them.

But along the way, I remember having very cold hands and feet and my coaches said that was normal.

I went through two winters with absolutely frozen hands and feet it seemed.

Dr. Peat was saying in a recent interview that high thyroid people breathe more.

He said the only way to measure BMR is to breathe into a machine and those machines are old and some still laying around but are no longer used. They measure oxygen in and out so they can tell accurately how much oxygen you are really metabolizing, is I think how it works.

Buteyko taught that breathing less brings you more health. But as usual that is an over simplification.

I think breathing less lowered my metabolic rate and suppressed my thyroid. I think a healthy thyroid person breathing less will lower his metabolic rate and his thyroid too.

That’s a consequence of Buteyko breathing exercises: lower metabolic rate.

That’s my opinion today and I think it’s why Dr. Peat has never to my knowledge recommended hard core breathing exercises, but rather some casual breathing into a bag.

Dr. Peat has taught that the organism adjusts to stress through what some would call epigenetic changes.

For a reduced breathing person, the organism says “you want me to lower metabolic rate so there is less oxygen needed, so I’ll do just that.”

Everything has a consequence that at first isn’t obvious. Would I do the reduced breathing today if I were where I was then? Absolutely. It saved my life.

I still live in a lifestyle that favors reduced breathing, nose breathing, building air hunger. It feels really good to me to do that and has let me maintain a high fitness level for a person as sedentary as me.

But it also lowered my metabolic rate and I am working to increase that.

 

[Kartoffel]

Normally, increased CO2 should open up your capillaries, and make you feel warmer. If the opposite happens, your breathing exercise is probably doing the opposite of increased CO2 retention.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Normally, increased CO2 should open up your capillaries, and make you feel warmer. If the opposite happens, your breathing exercise is probably doing the opposite of increased CO2 retention.

Of course it makes me feel warmer. Of course it opens the blood vessels, that’s wonderful. You are right.

But it lowers metabolism, I’m starting to realize. I think that it does so on a longer term basis.

 

[Kartoffel]

Of course it makes me feel warmer. Of course it opens the blood vessels, that’s wonderful. You are right.

But it lowers metabolism, I’m starting to realize. I think that it does so on a longer term basis.

Didn't you just write that your hands and feet became very cold and that your breathing coach said it was normal? I'm not sure how breathing more slowly would lower your metabolic rate. If you define metabolism simply as the consumption of oxygen, then it would lower it, but tissue oxygenation and fuel efficiency (less lactate) would likely increase.
Ray once mentioned that he's doesn't advocate conscious breath holding or Buteyko practices (at least on a permanent basis), but he said that making sure you utilize your diaphragm instead of your chest muscles is important to retain CO2.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Didn't you just write that your hands and feet became very cold and that your breathing coach said it was normal? I'm not sure how breathing more slowly would lower your metabolic rate. If you define metabolism simply as the consumption of oxygen, then it would lower it, but tissue oxygenation and fuel efficiency (less lactate) would likely increase.
Ray once mentioned that he's doesn't advocate conscious breath holding or Buteyko practices (at least on a permanent basis), but he said that making sure you utilize your diaphragm instead of your chest muscles is important to retain CO2.

I worked on all of that and became a diaphragmatic breather. My breathing is really good on all levels.

This is my theory now. Breathing more slowly tells your body that you should raise your CO2 set rate...and also that you should reduce your BMR to be able to breathe less. That’s the whole point of my OP. Thanks for reading and I appreciate your comments.

 

[redsun]

But it also lowered my metabolic rate and I am working to increase that.

You are having a disconnect of logic here. You cannot increase metabolic rate without increasing breathing drive. Where do you expect the increased metabolic rate to come from? Anaerobic respiration? Less oxygen = less energy production = lower metabolic rate. CO2 this, CO2 that... CO2 itself isnt making ATP, oxygen is. If you aren't pushing out enough CO2 when you breathe (because of lighter breathing) out you are limiting CO2 production internally. You say these breathing exercises are good, yet they lowered your metabolism indicated by cold extremities, that is not good. That's not the only indication, if you breathe less at rest by definition your metabolic rate is slower.

 

[ecstatichamster]

The whole point of what I am saying is to answer the riddle that breathing exercises a la Buteyko reduce breathing by increasing CO2 and have huge benefits BUT at the expense of metabolic rate.

 

[Kartoffel]

You are having a disconnect of logic here

I think you're having a disconnect, too. Increased breathing rate does not equal increased use of oxygen by tissues. Most hypothyroid people hyperventilate and waste a lot of their glucose by converting it into lactate. In fact, breathing a lot will increase anaerobic respiration by lowering CO2 and increasing lactate/adrenaline.

 

[ken]

Buteyko Breath Reconditioning Technique I've long been a fan of Dr Buteyko's work. On this website link I read my first Ray Peat articles. I still tape my mouth at night. Clears my sinuses and minimizes my snoring, and I was very good at snoring. My memory of reading accounts of the actual Russian Buteyko clinic was that they included extensive physical activity to convince the body to metabolize. It's one thing to sit quietly and reduce breathing and another to reduce over
breathing while active.

 

[redsun]

The whole point of what I am saying is to answer the riddle that breathing exercises a la Buteyko reduce breathing by increasing CO2 and have huge benefits BUT at the expense of metabolic rate.

When is lowering your natural breathing rate and metabolism with manmade techniques beneficial? Besides for anxiety and panic disorders, I don't think much.

Increased breathing rate does not equal increased use of oxygen by tissues.

No, otherwise you could just voluntarily hyperventilate and have a higher metabolism that way. The point is the increase natural breathing rate to a normal level, opposite of OP who lowered his breathing drive willingly. If you have poor oxygen delivery or utilization because of anemia or deficiencies is a different story. But that still doesn't go against what I said. It's like you are arguing with me and telling me 2 + 2 = 5.

Most hypothyroid people hyperventilate and waste a lot of their glucose by converting it into lactate.

I don't know what hypothyroid has to do with this. If your anemic and aren't delivering as much oxygen to tissues then you will make lactate, doesn't matter how much thyroid hormone you have. And you would not have much thyroid circulating in the body to begin with if you had problems with oxygen delivery.

In fact, breathing a lot will increase anaerobic respiration by lowering CO2 and increasing lactate/adrenaline.

No, anaerobic respiration happens when there is less oxygen reaching skeletal muscle. Anaerobic respiration only really applies to skeletal muscle and happens when exercise is using more oxygen then can be delivered. I never suggested hyperventilating which is not the same thing as naturally increased breathing drive, so again, don't see what you are trying to say.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

I've also noticed that breathing in more isn't necessarily a good thing. I've seen people who breathe a lot and have high pulses, but they're adrenaline-fueled and have low-energy/get tired easily/are fatigued often. I am personally somewhere in between -- not always entirely fatigued, but never feel properly energized. I think breathing has to do with it, but there's only so much forcing breathing itself will do. I've done Buteyko and it makes you feel slower/sluggish/lower energy (or at least me). I get the sense that altering the breathing rhythm doesn't exactly do much good, other than maybe to work on breathing technique/control -- it doesn't really seem to do much for metabolism I wouldn't think (metabolism is more correlated with hormones/serotonin/etc. and I doubt breathing slower and/or deeper would make giant changes there).

I naturally breathe shallow pretty often and think it's poor or at least not ideal -- this also can come along with adrenaline rush-like sensations or dead-on fatigue interchangeably, which is all the more confusing since there's no one "side" to look at and understand. I'm kind of stuck with a guessing game of, "Is it adrenals/thyroid/etc.?" Basically I don't see any significantly higher energy coming as a result of breathing patterns changing (but bag breathing I've never tried).

The point is the increase natural breathing rate to a normal level, opposite of OP who lowered his breathing drive willingly

Don't forget that there is also breathing efficiency -- being able to properly breathe in and out, regardless of rate/speed/CP/etc. One can have perfect "rate" but have trouble getting enough air in/out and become a shallow or "half breather" in order to compensate for weak breaths which can induce anxiety/frustration/other issues this way (I know it first hand). I too thought that lowering breathing would help, but I think the real issue for some is efficient breathing and everything else on point -- not merely just force changing breathing to expect metabolism to follow along entirely when I don't think the process works this way exactly.

 

[redsun]

I've also noticed that breathing in more isn't necessarily a good thing. I've seen people who breathe a lot and have high pulses, but they're adrenaline-fueled and have low-energy/get tired easily/are fatigued often. I am personally somewhere in between -- not always entirely fatigued, but never feel properly energized. I think breathing has to do with it, but there's only so much forcing breathing itself will do. I've done Buteyko and it makes you feel slower/sluggish/lower energy (or at least me). I get the sense that altering the breathing rhythm doesn't exactly do much good, other than maybe to work on breathing technique/control -- it doesn't really seem to do much for metabolism I wouldn't think (metabolism is more correlated with hormones/serotonin/etc. and I doubt breathing slower and/or deeper would make giant changes there).

I naturally breathe shallow pretty often and think it's poor or at least not ideal -- this also can come along with adrenaline rush-like sensations or dead-on fatigue interchangeably, which is all the more confusing since there's no one "side" to look at and understand. I'm kind of stuck with a guessing game of, "Is it adrenals/thyroid/etc.?" Basically I don't see any significantly higher energy coming as a result of breathing patterns changing (but bag breathing I've never tried).

You don't want to force breathing up or down. And yes you can have the opposite side of the spectrum with abnormally high breathing drive which is not good either.

I'm kind of stuck with a guessing game of, "Is it adrenals/thyroid/etc.?" Basically I don't see any significantly higher energy coming as a result of breathing patterns changing (but bag breathing I've never tried).

If thyroid is working, that means adrenals are working alongside it correctly. Thyroid and adrenal hormones(specifically noradrenaline) work synergistically to increase metabolic rate. You can have tons of adrenal hormones compensating for thyroid as well, not exactly obvious to be able to tell the difference. I realized zinc was killing my breathing drive, so when I stopped it it went back up. This is one example of how nutrients can affect breathing, and is very different from trying to artificially change breathing rate through certain exercises.

Don't forget that there is also breathing efficiency -- being able to properly breathe in and out, regardless of rate/speed/CP/etc. One can have perfect "rate" but have trouble getting enough air in/out and become a shallow or "half breather" in order to compensate for weak breaths which can induce anxiety/frustration/other issues this way (I know it first hand). I too thought that lowering breathing would help, but I think the real issue for some is efficient breathing and everything else on point -- not merely just force changing breathing to expect metabolism to follow along entirely when I don't think the process works this way exactly.

I dont advocate for forced changing of breathing drive. Read the example I gave to you of zinc.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Thyroid and adrenal hormones(specifically noradrenaline) work synergistically to increase metabolic rate.

Interesting! I didn't know that -- learned something new from this tidbit. Thanks. Thyroid really is like the master control system of the body in a sense.

I dont advocate for forced changing of breathing drive. Read the example of gave to you of zinc.

I think diet/allergies/etc. has something to do with it too, since many people report sinus issues/stuffy nose that sometimes isn't apparent when eating/not eating certain things. I guess nasal breathing issues can be both mechanical (like deviated septums or injuries) and immunogenic/allergenic, but finding out which is which is not easy. The thing with this is that these nasal symptoms force someone to change their breathing rate/flow since they can be stuffed up all day/night -- or might mouth breathe.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Dr. Buteyko found out that the greater the air volume that a person breathes, the less healthy they are.

The breathing exercises he developed increase CO2 levels and reset the body's "capnostat" to a higher CO2 setting.

They are extremely beneficial and saved my life and I have helped numerous others cure literally incurable diseases with it.

It has been the solution to many people's intractable health issues to the point that I think it is the #1 modality for recovery, over diet or anything else.

To reduce your breathing, and build up air hunger, and use the various techniques, creates the stage for a near miraculous recovery. It did for me. 1000%.

I was assuming there is familiarity with all this here, but apparently there is not.

Anyway, one puzzle I've had for years is this one -- that with the huge beneficial effects (including one weight by the way) it seemed to have made me hypothyroid and I have speculated as to why.

When I sit next to someone and I hear their breathing I can tell how sick they are. Breathing more air means you are more sick. Less air is healthier. But people with a strong thyroid and high metabolic rate may breathe more, according to Dr. Peat. So I am trying to resolve these two ideas in my mind.

 

[lampofred]

Hypoxia is damaging when GABA is low. So air holds after exhalation cause metabolic damage in poor health (but will raise testosterone), but breath hold after inhalation acts just like thyroid because it is increasing CO2 without oxygen deprivation.

Buteyko probably increases iron toxicity too. Iron causes most damage in low oxygen conditions.

 

[ecstatichamster]

air holds after exhalation recovered my health. It may be stressful but if you are very sick, it can save your life. Since then I've been using better methods, but this one works great even though it is difficult to do and stressful.

 

[ecstatichamster]

these work like weightlifting. They create a metabolic advantage for a long time afterwards. Both during the hold and shortly after -- when they increase oxygen flooding tissues due to high CO2 levels -- and by increasing the body's willingness to tolerate a permanently higher CO2 level.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I never "got" breathing manipulation and disregarded it as dangerous.it is such a natural impulse to
breathe more if you are healthy and active,but "Buteyko" knows best.quite frank,its the proposition
of a Madman.i feel so bad if i build up breath-hunger,and CO2 is overrated.His analyses cant hold a candle also.
maybe he saw underfed people,if they lower metabolic rate,less oxygenation,they dont burn-out so fast?

 

[ecstatichamster]

well you can think that, but the record is clearly different. It shows that you may want to bone up in this area, perhaps starting with this
Protective CO2 and aging.

Dr Buteyko was brilliant, and saved the lives of tens, thousands or maybe millions of people, and Dr. Peat has expressed great respect for Dr. Buteyko.

One of the reasons I became interested in Dr. Peat's work is that he recognizes the role of CO2 front and center to all health of the body as perhaps the most important thing of all. Nobody else besides Dr. Buteyko that I have studied ever got it the way Dr. Peat does.

"The therapeutic effects of increasing carbon dioxide are being more widely recognized in recent years. Even Jane Brody, the NY Times writer on health topics, has favorably mentioned the use of the Buteyko method for asthma, and the idea of “permissive hypercapnia” during mechanical ventilation, to prevent lung damage from excess oxygen, has been discussed in medical journals. But still very few biologists recognize its role as a fundamental, universal protective factor. I think it will be helpful to consider some of the ways carbon dioxide might be controlling situations that otherwise are poorly understood."
Protective CO2 and aging.

Dr. Peat's website includes this link:
Buteyko Breath Reconditioning Technique

Which has a lot of great information. It is nothing to do with asthma per se, though. It has everything to do with health and breathing trumps diet and everything else. Nothing is as good as fixing breathing, in my experience. I was just puzzled by the fact that I think it lowers BMR. But that's only a theory of mine.

 

[ecstatichamster]

"Adaptation to hypoxia or increased carbon dioxide limits the formation of lactic acid. Muscles are 50% more efficient in the adapted state; glucose, which forms more carbon dioxide than fat does when oxidized,, is metabolized more efficiently than fats, requiring less oxygen."

Mitochondria and mortality