Breathing Exercises Made My Hypothyroid

[MetabolicTrash]

I gotta say that this info is tempting, but if the result is going to be hypo (or further hypo) and a lower metabolism I don't know if this tradeoff would be ideal for everyone.

There has to be a way to get the same benefits of the reduced breathing you speak of without tanking energy in the long run or such.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I gotta say that this info is tempting, but if the result is going to be hypo (or further hypo) and a lower metabolism I don't know if this tradeoff would be ideal for everyone.

There has to be a way to get the same benefits of the reduced breathing you speak of without tanking energy in the long run or such.

well I wouldn't worry about the metabolism thing. That is my take on it. But it literally saved my life and that of many others and continues to be a lifestyle I live to this day.

There is nothing as important as CO2 that is in your control the way this is. So I can't stress enough how important it is to go for it.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

well I wouldn't worry about the metabolism thing. That is my take on it. But it literally saved my life and that of many others and continues to be a lifestyle I live to this day.

There is nothing as important as CO2 that is in your control the way this is. So I can't stress enough how important it is to go for it.

Do you think bag breathing can provide similar benefits?

Do you bag breathe/have you? I know my breathing is a mess, so that is why this subject is specifically of interest to me. I just don't want to force something to change that might induce a whole new set of undesirable circumstances as a byproduct of it. I've never tried bag breathing so I will have to give that a go whenever I get the chance.

My CP is like 20 seconds without too much struggle (I've done Buteyko before, but not long), but it varies. I assumed good thyroid production was generally enough to not need to do Buteyko though.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I do bag breathe sometimes. It is very useful. You can work up to 15 minutes a session a few times a day and probably get huge benefit.

 

[joshquintanilla]

Has anyone ever asked ray about Buteyko breathing practices?

 

[Elie]

has anyone here taken into account the Bohr effect. Increased CO2 results in greater release of O2 from hemoglobin into the tissue:Bohr effect - Wikipedia
This should increase metabolic rate.
What is the best way to breath to achieve this?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Of course. That’s why I do breathing exercises. The best way is to slow down breathing and build up air hunger. Just a little. And that increases CO2 and increases oxygenation of the tissues via the Bohr effect. You got it!

 

[ecstatichamster]

Has anyone ever asked ray about Buteyko breathing practices?

I think I have. I can’t find the email but he is not in favor of stressful exercises. I did quote his quoting Buteyko earlier in the thread.

 

[Lizb]

My Buteyko practitioner always told me that it increases metabolism and that cold hands and feet are not normal.

Also, I was taught that it is volume in the lungs, so in fact can be slow or very rapid very shallow breathing.

I maintain nasal breathing, tape my mouth and night but have backed right off the exercises and found them so difficult -4 years of effort.

 

[Collden]

Wim Hof would be the opposite of Buteyko and he certainly seems a more high-energy individual than most Buteyko teachers like Artour Rakhimov.

 

[empoweredliving]

Buteyko breathing is not just about doing breathing sets. The way we talk, sleep, exercise and our emotional health all contribute to hyperventilation. We hyperventilate the most when we talk and during sleep. So if someone is doing breathing exercises and they still speak very fast, they are losing CO2 and they are losing the advantage of doing Buteyko breathing sets. As a Buteyko instructor, the first thing I point out to people is the way they talk & diet also affects hyperventilation. A high protein diet causes heart palpitations and people can hyperventilate during high cortisol adrenaline spikes as well as during histamine release. The aim of Buteyko is to nose breathe 24/7. This awareness and modification to nose breathing only over time improves 200 biochemical pathways. No amount of dairy, orange juice or collagen is gong to improve breathing if someone hyperventilates.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I relearned everything, how to talk, walk, breathe. I have said, and mean literally, that it saved my life. I am in far better condition than anyone I know who is close to my age.

Breathing trumps everything else, including diet.

The purpose of my thread was stating a common side effect that I think lowers metabolism and so far nobody is getting my point. We have had a few people here around 2015 or so who understood this and noticed it. I am continuing that idea and hopefully can learn more. Buteyko gets our body to breathe less, and high thyroid causes us to breathe more...so the body adjusted to my breathing by dialing back my thyroid and this is/was common with Buteyko students.

One of my coaches (I had the best in the world) told me that drinking cream helps to make this better. I am not sure if this is so, or why, but it was long after that initial few years where in the winter I was just so, so cold.

When I did breathing exercises of course I was warm. And overall I was warmer, but it caused a reaction with a lot of deep blood that was warm, and cold hands and feet, and this is common with people who do Buteyko and make the kind of (huge) progress I made.

 

[boris]

Of course it makes me feel warmer. Of course it opens the blood vessels, that’s wonderful. You are right.

But it lowers metabolism, I’m starting to realize. I think that it does so on a longer term basis.

Interesting thought. If that is true it would make sense that ketosis "improves" your Buteyko CP value.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Interesting thought. If that is true it would make sense that ketosis "improves" your Buteyko CP value.

yes that is part of it. I was doing keto early on, and Artour thought it was bad. Then I got into Peat and Artour got into thinking ketosis was great.

Breathing trumps everything but it isn't the ONLY thing.

 

[Lizb]

At what morning control pause are you still having cold hands and feet?

When you say you're bag breathing for 15 minutes, you don't presumably mean continuously?

I always thought bag breathing might be a band aid, but in fact promotes the habit of deeper breathing - I think that would certainly apply for those who have never practiced Buteyko.

 

[yerrag]

I have wondered about what you wonder about ecstatichamster, ever since I started on Buteyko. You may remember that my blood pressure increased instead of got lower as my CP keeps increasing. My Buteyko couldn't explain that, but he said I was the only person in the many classes he's taught that's like that.

We know Buteyko's discovery came from observing sick people who breathe with their mouths to be close to dying. I've seen my own mother go through the same breathing behavior as well and I had thought a lot about this. I can now explain why sick people mouth breathe now, and perhaps I can explain your case.

Sick people who mouth breathe have to, in order to breathe out CO2 more easily. That's because they cannot take more CO2 into their system. While they need CO2 as well to increase oxygenation, they can't have that CO2. Why is that? It's because their body is so acidic already that they have no room for CO2, as CO2 increases acidity through carbonic acid. The body would first take care of what's more important - insisting to prioritize acid-base balance - over increasing metabolism (thru higher oxygenation with the help of CO2) or making metabolism efficient (aerobic glycolysis over anaerobic glycolysis, oxidative metabolism over aerobic glycolysis). Remember the range of blood pH - around 7.35 to 7.45 - that has to be maintained otherwise it will become a crisis. Well, the blood is already at 7.35 pH, and cannot be forced to go lower. Yet the body still manages to produce some CO2, even while it produces a lot of lactic acid as well as keto acid, as well as uric acid, depending on the context. The lung is the body's instant response to react to high acidity (as well as high alkalinity), but expelling CO2 (or retaining CO2) is the only way the lungs can effect pH control. Lactic acid, keto acid etc - they cannot be expelled through the lungs. They have to go through the kidney's processes - which is slow, and not useful in rapid response situations.

This explains why we can't force sick people, who mostly are very acidic, to bag breathe, much less to do Buteyko. Breathing more CO2 will cause them to breathe more, and this is called hyperventilation. In such case, hyperventilation is not caused by lacking CO2. It is caused by having too much CO2. Think this over, please. It'll make sense when you first drop the preconceived understanding of the commonly known cause and effect relationship of hypervention.

The commonly understood cause - too much breathing causes the loss of carbon dioxide - and loss of carbon dioxide causes low oxygenation, and this causes the person to increase breathing rate further in a futile cycle. Bag breathing will help here, as it restores the carbon dioxide content in blood, and this leads to oxygen being back to being easily released by blood to the tissues.

The cause in a sick, highly acidic person - high blood acidity (low pH) requires CO2 to be expelled by the lungs, and this causes increased breathing and the reflex is to use the mouth, as the mouth pushes CO2 out at a higher rate. The breathing rate is increased to a hyperventilating rate, in order to lower acidity (increase pH) to be able to keep the patient alive (by staying within the physiological limits of pH allowed by the organism to continue living). To keep the sick person from hyperventilating, the solution is to lower acidity (increase pH) and I believe haidut mentions in an emergency setting like this thiamine is used.

Now we go back to my experience with blood pressure increasing practicing Buteyko, and I attempt to explain why. We also go back to your case, and try to explain why it can be possible that your metabolism went down practicing Buteyko...

...I'm still thinking though

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I have wondered about what you wonder about ecstatichamster, ever since I started on Buteyko. You may remember that my blood pressure increased instead of got lower as my CP keeps increasing. My Buteyko couldn't explain that, but he said I was the only person in the many classes he's taught that's like that.

We know Buteyko's discovery came from observing sick people who breathe with their mouths to be close to dying. I've seen my own mother go through the same breathing behavior as well and I had thought a lot about this. I can now explain why sick people mouth breathe now, and perhaps I can explain your case.

Sick people who mouth breathe have to, in order to breathe out CO2 more easily. That's because they cannot take more CO2 into their system. While they need CO2 as well to increase oxygenation, they can't have that CO2. Why is that? It's because their body is so acidic already that they have no room for CO2, as CO2 increases acidity through carbonic acid. The body would first take care of what's more important - insisting to prioritize acid-base balance - over increasing metabolism (thru higher oxygenation with the help of CO2) or making metabolism efficient (aerobic glycolysis over anaerobic glycolysis, oxidative metabolism over aerobic glycolysis). Remember the range of blood pH - around 7.35 to 7.45 - that has to be maintained otherwise it will become a crisis. Well, the blood is already at 7.35 pH, and cannot be forced to go lower. Yet the body still manages to produce some CO2, even while it produces a lot of lactic acid as well as keto acid, as well as uric acid, depending on the context. The lung is the body's instant response to react to high acidity (as well as high alkalinity), but expelling CO2 (or retaining CO2) is the only way the lungs can effect pH control. Lactic acid, keto acid etc - they cannot be expelled through the lungs. They have to go through the kidney's processes - which is slow, and not useful in rapid response situations.

This explains why we can't force sick people, who mostly are very acidic, to bag breathe, much less to do Buteyko. Breathing more CO2 will cause them to breathe more, and this is called hyperventilation. In such case, hyperventilation is not caused by lacking CO2. It is caused by having too much CO2. Think this over, please. It'll make sense when you first drop the preconceived understanding of the commonly known cause and effect relationship of hypervention.

The commonly understood cause - too much breathing causes the loss of carbon dioxide - and loss of carbon dioxide causes low oxygenation, and this causes the person to increase breathing rate further in a futile cycle. Bag breathing will help here, as it restores the carbon dioxide content in blood, and this leads to oxygen being back to being easily released by blood to the tissues.

The cause in a sick, highly acidic person - high blood acidity (low pH) requires CO2 to be expelled by the lungs, and this causes increased breathing and the reflex is to use the mouth, as the mouth pushes CO2 out at a higher rate. The breathing rate is increased to a hyperventilating rate, in order to lower acidity (increase pH) to be able to keep the patient alive (by staying within the physiological limits of pH allowed by the organism to continue living). To keep the sick person from hyperventilating, the solution is to lower acidity (increase pH) and I believe haidut mentions in an emergency setting like this thiamine is used.

Now we go back to my experience with blood pressure increasing practicing Buteyko, and I attempt to explain why. We also go back to your case, and try to explain why it can be possible that your metabolism went down practicing Buteyko...

...I'm still thinking though

Good thinking.
A possible cause for the excess acidity is Chlorine from excess Salt-consumption.it causes low grade metabolic acidosis.

 

[yerrag]

Good thinking.
A possible cause for the excess acidity is Chlorine from excess Salt-consumption.it causes low grade metabolic acidosis.

Yes, but no from salt NaCl but from magnesium chloride.

Salt does not create an acidic load but mag chloride does. NaCl is needed to make HCl, with carbonic acid. Avoiding salt heavily could compromise gastric acid production.

 

[Uselis]

I do bag breathe sometimes. It is very useful. You can work up to 15 minutes a session a few times a day and probably get huge benefit.

Hey,

are benefits grow incrementally the more one is able to breath comfortably into bag? Also could you list (or link me) to what are those huge benefits?

I used to do 3 x 3min/day but only noticed pink fingernails ☺ Besides occassionally I'd induce stress reaction where I'd feel detached and spaced out for awhile.

Thanks

 

[ecstatichamster]

yes the benefits keep increasing.

I did a lot more aggressive exercises than bag breathing but it is very convenient and I find it useful.

Benefits - weight, anxiety, no asthma, no other problems...so many