Wider Face After Using Vitamin K?

[Bluebell]

thanks a lot - sorry, I meant what brand of "vitamin A" did you take (from your 1st post) ...

 

[gummybear]

thanks a lot - sorry, I meant what brand of "vitamin A" did you take (from your 1st post) ...

Baby that's ok. I've used nutrisorb but since it is so expensive I use carlsons vit a (the one with palmitate) and biotech research vit a. Both work super good. I notice that vit a seems to complement vit k very good, my teeth got alot better when I started using vit a.

 

[Brian]

Somehow I think we need the k1 also. Dosage is kind of how I feel, I had alot when I had some teeth problems.

I think you're on to something gumby with the importance of K1.

Here's something I didn't know from good ol Wikipedia:

Conversion of vitamin K1 to vitamin K2 in animals

The MK-4 form of vitamin K2 is produced via conversion of vitamin K1 in the testes, pancreas, and arterial walls. While major questions still surround the biochemical pathway for the transformation of vitamin K1 to MK-4, the conversion is not dependent on gut bacteria, as it occurs in germ-free rats and in parenterally-administered K1 in rats. In fact, tissues that accumulate high amounts of MK-4 have a remarkable capacity to convert up to 90% of the available K1 into MK-4. There is evidence that the conversion proceeds by removal of the phytyl tail of K1 to produce menadione as an intermediate, which is then condensed with an activated geranylgeranyl moiety to produce vitamin K2 in the MK-4 (menatetrione) form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K# ... in_animals

K1 is converted by actual tissues in the body into K2 M4 (no bacteria involved in the conversion).
K2 M7 is a gut bacteria byproduct from strains such as Bacillus Subtillus as it digests resistant starch or other plant fibers that make it to the large intestine. So the gut may provide it unreliably if you're not eating much starch and aren't supplementing probiotics that have the right strains.

High levels of K2 that would add up to multiple milligrams a day aren't found naturally in any food, so it makes sense that animals need to produce their own to meet most of their needs, but that doesn't mean there aren't benefits to supplementing K2. So, maybe it's best to get lots of K1 from greens or supplement and then supplement K2 M4 and M7 in quantities as needed for therapeutic use.

K complexes like vitacost or Life Extension's are a good deal. You're getting about 8 cups worth of raw spinach K1 and more K2 than you could get by K2-rich animal foods.

How often do I eat that much spinach a day? Almost never. Many traditional human cultures regularly eat well cooked greens, and a lot of mammals munch on greens all day long, so it's probably built into the basic mammal physiology to make good use of K1.

Here's another article that discusses the value of K1.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/blog/dr- ... tamin-k2/#

 

[haidut]

I can report similar effects to gummybear when taking Estroban daily for about 2 months. However, I am also taking pregnenolone occassionally so can't comppletely separate the effects of the two supplements. However, this is rather odd to be just a coincidence, so I am willing to attribute it to vitamin K.
For the record, I do not take K1 but only K2 as MK-4. Studies have shown that MK-4 does not have the same direct hemostatic activity as vitamin K1. For people with high estrogen, which I think is 99% of modern people, K1 can be unsafe and there are reports of people having clotting issues and ending up in the hospital from taking 500mcg-1,000mcg of vitamin K1. Estrogen also clots the blood, so unless you are taking aspirin or vitamin E to thin it, the combination of high estrogen and higher doses of K1 can be unsafe.
That being said, anybody should use whatever they feel works for them. I am just sharing what I have read.

 

[lvysaur]

I started peating fairly young but age doesnt mean who can't grow any more monsieur. Peat grew a few cm when he used DHEA, and pregnenolone changed his face. And yes sir I have growned both here and there (!) using DHEA, pregnenolone, vit k and good diet some cynoplus.

Could you point me to where he says he grew taller by taking DHEA? Or if he said it in an email or something, perhaps post what he said verbatim? Just curious, thanks.

 

[Bluebell]

I can report similar effects to gummybear when taking Estroban daily for about 2 months. However, I am also taking pregnenolone occassionally so can't comppletely separate the effects of the two supplements. However, this is rather odd to be just a coincidence, so I am willing to attribute it to vitamin K.
For the record, I do not take K1 but only K2 as MK-4. Studies have shown that MK-4 does not have the same direct hemostatic activity as vitamin K1. For people with high estrogen, which I think is 99% of modern people, K1 can be unsafe and there are reports of people having clotting issues and ending up in the hospital from taking 500mcg-1,000mcg of vitamin K1. Estrogen also clots the blood, so unless you are taking aspirin or vitamin E to thin it, the combination of high estrogen and higher doses of K1 can be unsafe.
That being said, anybody should use whatever they feel works for them. I am just sharing what I have read.

Thanks very much haidut, I will be careful with the K1. How many drops a day of Estroban were you taking for those 2 months?

 

[haidut]

I can report similar effects to gummybear when taking Estroban daily for about 2 months. However, I am also taking pregnenolone occassionally so can't comppletely separate the effects of the two supplements. However, this is rather odd to be just a coincidence, so I am willing to attribute it to vitamin K.
For the record, I do not take K1 but only K2 as MK-4. Studies have shown that MK-4 does not have the same direct hemostatic activity as vitamin K1. For people with high estrogen, which I think is 99% of modern people, K1 can be unsafe and there are reports of people having clotting issues and ending up in the hospital from taking 500mcg-1,000mcg of vitamin K1. Estrogen also clots the blood, so unless you are taking aspirin or vitamin E to thin it, the combination of high estrogen and higher doses of K1 can be unsafe.
That being said, anybody should use whatever they feel works for them. I am just sharing what I have read.

Thanks very much haidut, I will be careful with the K1. How many drops a day of Estroban were you taking for those 2 months?

The normal dose, which I think is 8 drops and provides 2mg of K2.

 

[gummybear]

""Marketing" of these as products, without understanding just what they do and why they do it, seems to be adding confusion, rather than understanding, as hundreds of people sell their misconceptions with their products. The very concept of "marketing" is at odds with the real nature of these materials, which has to do with the protection and expansion of our nature and potential. A distorted idea of human nature is sold when people are treated as "the market.""

 

[gummybear]

I started peating fairly young but age doesnt mean who can't grow any more monsieur. Peat grew a few cm when he used DHEA, and pregnenolone changed his face. And yes sir I have growned both here and there (!) using DHEA, pregnenolone, vit k and good diet some cynoplus.

Could you point me to where he says he grew taller by taking DHEA? Or if he said it in an email or something, perhaps post what he said verbatim? Just curious, thanks.

http://www.litalee.com/shopexd.asp?ccod ... holesterol

 

[Jennifer]

Gummybear, may I ask, what Vitacost vitamin K are you using? I noticed two formulas with both K1 and K2. The Ultra K and the Vitamin K Complex.

I had bought a couple bottles of the Green Pasture's high vitamin butter oil and was using it for about a month, but then started giving it to my dog because she's really sick. I still like the idea of using it because along with the K1/K2 it has the CoQ10, vitamins A, D, E and is real food, but the price is...well, I'd have to start selling appendages at this point to afford using it for an extended period of time.

 

[charlie]

One of the selling points of the high vitamin butter oil is that it contains omega 6.

 

[Addie1970]

What kind of vitamin K are you taking K2 or k3 ,and how much are you taking ?

 

[Jennifer]

Yeah Charlie, I figure the polyunsaturates aren't that big of a deal since my diet is so low in them overall. I drink 0.5% milk and eat fat-free skry/cottage cheese as my main protein sources and at most, 2 pastured eggs a day. The rest of my diet is mainly fruit and honey. So not much of PUFAS. The butter oil only has 2.5 grams of fat per serving of which 1.5 grams are saturated. I like that the oil is a condensed food source of nutrition since I don't eat liver, but I think I'll figure out other foods to fill in the gap. The price for it is just too insane for me.

Now I just need to figure out what K2 supplement to get. If my math is correct, the Thorne brand, but even more so the AOR Peak K2, come out cheaper than the vitacost brand based on the total amount of K2 they contain. A lot of the K in the vitacost formulation I was looking at buying is in the K1 form and though it's probably good to have, I would think K1 is cheaper than MK4.

Addie1970, not sure who you're directing your comment to, but if I remember correctly, there are safety concerns with K3 (a synthetic) in regards to organ damage. I think it's been banned in many countries, hasn't it?

 

[charlie]

I see many people report good results from this brand:

Life Extension Super K with Advanced K2 Complex

 

[Hugh Johnson]

What kind of vitamin K are you taking K2 or k3 ,and how much are you taking ?

Never take K3, That is potentially toxic in high doses and I hear some people have killed themselves with it.

 

[haidut]

What kind of vitamin K are you taking K2 or k3 ,and how much are you taking ?

Never take K3, That is potentially toxic in high doses and I hear some people have killed themselves with it.

I second that. K3 is synthetic and is quite toxic. I don't even know why it is being sold as supplement, even though it has legitimate chemical/industrial uses.

 

[gummybear]

Gummybear, may I ask, what Vitacost vitamin K are you using? I noticed two formulas with both K1 and K2. The Ultra K and the Vitamin K Complex.

I had bought a couple bottles of the Green Pasture's high vitamin butter oil and was using it for about a month, but then started giving it to my dog because she's really sick. I still like the idea of using it because along with the K1/K2 it has the CoQ10, vitamins A, D, E and is real food, but the price is...well, I'd have to start selling appendages at this point to afford using it for an extended period of time.

I buy the Ultra Vitamin K with Advanced K2 Complex -- 90 Softgels jenn.

The butter oil at first appearance seems like a scam to me. The weston a price foundation was founded at 1999, and in a timely manner green pastures started one year later, 2000. There isn't any data on how much vitamin k the butter oil has, or anything else of that matter. Either the butter oil have magic properties since it's so costly or it's just a marketing trick. I just don't like intellectual dishonesty.

 

[gummybear]

What kind of vitamin K are you taking K2 or k3 ,and how much are you taking ?

Either thorne k2 or vitacost vitamin k komplex. Both are cheap and give me good results.

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks for the reply, gummybear. :) I ended up getting the Thorne K2 since I received a 10% discount on it at iherb for spending $60+ and it ended up being cheaper than the vitacost brand.

Yeah, after doing a little more research on the butter oil, I honestly think if it has any "magic" properties, they can be found in regular pastured butter and other nutrient dense foods. I make raw butter at home from 100% grass-fed raw milk so even that's similar to the butter oil. I'd say it mostly comes down to the grass the cows feed on and the density of the oil, but I can't see how it's K2 content can even come close to the amount of K2 in supplemental form. And frankly, the supplement form must be pretty good if you and others were able to gain all those benefits.

In only 4 years since my last DEXA scan, I've managed to build back an insane amount of bone as shown by my recent bone scans and the x-ray tech almost fell out of her chair when she saw my new DEXA scores. She said she's never seen someone build back bone like that. I'm hoping that taking the K2 will really put my bone building into overdrive, getting me out of the danger zone once and for all and straightening out my spine. The doctors tell me it's structural damage I suffered when my vertebrates compressed and that I can't fix that, but I just can't see how the cortical bone can't remodel itself when others have noticed jaw bones widening after supplementing.

 

[Peata]

I've been using K for a while now (I believe I started taking it in February though not everyday - as I recall just on days I took aspirin). Around 1 mg. Didn't notice anything.

Going to mid April I was taking a lot of Progest E and getting a lot of E I assume through it. Just today I read back on something "J" said that a lot of continuous Vitamin E could deplete K (and the reverse too). Anyway, by mid May I had developed a problem with my right wrist. One day in mid May I woke up and it was painful and felt a little swollen. As the day went on it would get a little better but I was aware of it everytime I needed to use that wrist (which is a lot since I'm right-handed). This continued on every day. I noticed it made it hard to use some of the weight machines at the gym, for example. I lived with it and thought I might have to keep living with it (aches/pains of getting "older"?) I have no idea if this was because E depleted K or what was going on.

Unfortunately my computer crashed a few weeks ago and it lost all my data from cronometer for some reason. But going by other notes, I see that I upped the dose of K about the middle of June. I also stopped using continuous Progest E for the most part by early June, except for occasional use if I feel I need it. Still had the problem with wrist.

About two weeks ago I ran out of the K I was using and switched to a brand I'd used before -(Pioneer) has 1 mg. K2 (MK4) only and 2,000 iu D. I started regularly taking 2 of them for 2 weeks now. And added Vitamin A about 1 week ago. A few days ago I started to notice my wrist wasn't hurting in the morning or other times - only if I bend it much more than I usually do, I can feel a little ache when compared to no ache at all in left wrist bent the same way. I barely notice anything when I work out now too. The joint and muscle in wrist flexes better and further like it used to. Virtually no pain. I'm very happy about this because I thought the pain and lack of range of motion might have been permanent.

What is strange is that my joints are "popping" more. Pretty much all over. That wrist has pops, other joints pop too such as joints big and -fingers, toes. It doesn't hurt, and today it's not happening as much so far but I just notice it - kind of a loose popping.

Anyone have an idea on that?

Also I am taking a Unique E Vitamin E everyday again since Sunday. So I'm taking 1 Carlson Vitamin A 15000 iu, 2 Pioneer K and D, 1 Unique E. Also been taking a little extra Magnesium by espsom salt baths and 1/2 tablet most days. Other than that it's the 1 capsule of raw thyroid since mid-April. I use an energy powder some days that has Bs and aspirin use most days - from 1/2 to 1 alka seltzer tablet. Those were also in use for some time already. Oh, a new addition is using Apple Cider Vinegar drink for a week now too.

I wonder if the K and other vitamins have helped lower PTH. I saw Mittir once said lowering PTH can help joint pain.

I notice my teeth look and feel better as well, and my retainer that I barely use fits on easier. Less sensitivity too.

I've also FINALLY lost one pound.

I hope the results continue.